IBM and Linden Lab Interoperability Announcement
Tuesday, July 8th, 2008 at 12:01 AM by: Hamilton LindenThis is a historic day for Second Life, and for virtual worlds in general. IBM and Linden Lab have announced that research teams from the two companies successfully teleported avatars from the Second Life Preview Grid into a virtual world running on an OpenSim server, marking the first time an avatar has moved from one virtual world to another. It’s an important first step toward enabling avatars to pass freely between virtual worlds, something we’ve been working toward publicly since the formation of the Architecture Working Group in September 2007. These are still early days, however, so amid all the excitement, we thought it would be helpful to clarify exactly what we’ve done — and what still lies ahead.
Q: What did Linden Lab and IBM accomplish with this experiment?
Researchers from IBM and Linden Lab teleported avatars from the Second Life Preview Grid to an OpenSim virtual world.
Q: Why is that significant?
It marks the first time an avatar has moved from one virtual world to another, an event with implications for the entire virtual world industry. As the name suggests, the Open Grid Protocol used in the project enables interoperability between virtual worlds. With this experiment, we’ve taken a first step toward not just interconnecting Second Life with other virtual worlds, but other virtual worlds with one another. An open standard for interoperability based on the Open Grid Protocol would allow users to cross freely from one world to another, just as they can go from one Web site to another on the Internet today.
Q: Did you make a video of the event?
Yes we did:
You can also download the high-quality version.
Q: Can other virtual worlds move forward with this research on their own?
Yes. In fact, Linden Lab will start an Open Grid Public Beta in July, making the Second Life Preview Grid available with Open Grid Protocol support for login and teleport. This first phase of the Open Grid Public Beta is designed for developers who want to test OpenSim interoperability with Second Life. IBM will contribute back to the community the enhancements it made to the OpenSim source code to support the Open Grid Protocol. In addition, an Open Grid version of the Second Life Viewer will be available for beta participants by Linden Lab. For information on interoperability testing, visit: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Open_Grid_Public_Beta.
Q: What is the Architecture Working Group (AWG)?
The AWG is an open forum whose mission is to enable virtual-world interoperability by defining and developing the Open Grid Protocol. For more information on the Architecture Working Group see: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Architecture_Working_Group.
Q: What is the Second Life Preview Grid?
The Second Life Preview Grid is an experimental grid completely disconnected from the Main Grid, where all Second Life Residents live, work and play. Nothing that happens on the Preview Grid affects the Main Grid.
Q: Can I visit the Preview Grid?
Yes, though it requires a different Second Life client, which you can download here: http://secondlife.com/support/downloads.php. It’s important to note, Residents still won’t be able to teleport to OpenSim from the Preview Grid.
Q: Can regular SL users teleport to an OpenSim server now?
No. This experiment was conducted on a test grid under controlled conditions. Second Life users cannot currently teleport to OpenSim, or vice-versa.
Q: Did the avatar transfer any assets (skins, objects) between Second Life and OpenSim?
No assets were transferred in this experiment – only the avatar itself.
Q: When the avatar teleported between worlds, did it look the same in both places?
No, the clothes and attachments in Second Life were not transferred in this experiment. Thus avatars appeared as default, “ruthed,” avatars.
Q: Is it possible to transfer assets between Second Life and OpenSim?
Not with the Open Grid Protocol. So far only Login and Teleport have been implemented.
Q: When will Second Life Residents be able to teleport to OpenSim servers, or other virtual worlds?
We don’t know exactly. We’re working toward that goal but we’re still very much in the experimental phase.
Q: What is Linden Lab’s ultimate goal with these experiments?
Linden Lab sees interoperability as essential for virtual worlds to reach their full potential. In addition, interoperability will enhance Resident experience and the new architecture will improve scalability and stability.
Q: How will Linden Lab prevent property from being copied into other virtual worlds?
We’re paying extremely close attention to that question. We will be designing this with the Second Life community to ensure their needs are met. We want to stress that when it does become possible to move avatars between worlds, we will take the utmost care to protect the rights of Second Life property owners and creators. Linden Lab will not design a system that lets people openly violate the permissions of SL goods and take them to other worlds. We recognize that intellectual property is the engine that drives Second Life, and we are completely committed to preserving the qualities that make Second Life the unique, innovative and dynamic place that it is today.
For those of you who have more questions, feel free to stop in at Zero Linden’s weekly office hours. And if you’re a developer who wants to get directly involved, we encourage you to stay tuned for more info on the Open Grid Public Beta, which starts later this month.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Exciting news! Congrats!
July 8th, 2008 at 12:28 AM
Q: Has the code finally being made available?
July 8th, 2008 at 12:29 AM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOW!!!!!!!!!!
July 8th, 2008 at 12:31 AM
Your going to take more than the “utmost care” in respect to IP rights you do not own. You are going to make it impossible for any transfer to take place for any item where the permissions are not explicitly granted on an item by item basis. (should not be that difficult to code but now your going to have to deal with open sourcers that will negate these controls so it has to be server side and that code can never be open sourced. And that means your going to have to make it impossible for a hacked client to send false information. I.e.; the majority of code goes server side other than rendering) Since you are going to have to work on the permissions system there are a number of opportunities for improvement that can make a lot of issues less devastating to the success of Secondlife. I recommend you begin conducting these meetings in respect to all this in a more public fashion so all the creators of Secondlife can have their rightful say in the matter. We are not all Luddites but most everyone has concerns given the existing state of affairs in Secondlife in respect to rampant and blatant IP theft.
But congratulations on your test. I find it interesting you proceed with such tests prior to engineering the complete solution. Perhaps you need to learn about software engineering and the aspect of how requirements control the developers and not the other way around.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:31 AM
Can’t wait till it goes public!
:) 
Keep up the good work Linden Labs!!!
July 8th, 2008 at 12:39 AM
Erm - in what way does this differ from the report over a month ago at http://zhaewry.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/happy-jumpy-ruths-interop-takes-a-step/ ?
July 8th, 2008 at 12:45 AM
Hello,
Congratulations.
When will it be for everyone ?
What is the next step in interoperability ?
Regards from Paris.
Gilles Misrahi.
July 8th, 2008 at 12:49 AM
How very cutting edge! (lies)
What is with the propaganda machine these days? Who’s all this window dressing for?
July 8th, 2008 at 12:54 AM
“Linden Lab will not design a system that lets people openly violate the permissions of SL goods and take them to other worlds.”
Glad to hear that our items will retain the permissions we set on them.
And I am holding you to this!
I hope that we will also be able to choose whether our items can go to other worlds at all, particularly on a grid-by-grid basis.
It would not be a wonderful thing to have one’s items taken to worlds one cannot even gain access to.
Will we?
coco
July 8th, 2008 at 1:09 AM
I wanted to point out that this work is quite the beginning and not really useful to anybody else than developers. It is a first but important step to make interoperability happen. Before anything goes live or beta which makes sense to end users some time will pass.
Other important steps in this area is work happening in the pyogp project which soon might have a basic agent domain implementation and has a login script already.
You can find it at http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Pyogp
There is a mailing list and irc channel available as well.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:11 AM
Excellent news. Bring on the future.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:18 AM
Sounds cool, but nice way to cannibalize your own business!!
July 8th, 2008 at 1:21 AM
Lots of discussion has taken place the past few weeks, if you missed it. Look through the links below for more info:
Forum/jira discussions:
jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1272
jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-1277
forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=267473
Technical discussions:
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Protecting_content_in_an_open_grid
zhaewry.wordpress.com/2008/06/05/happy-jumpy-ruths-interop-takes-a-step/
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2008-06-10
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_June_10
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_June_17
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Which_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_Jun_26
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2008-07-10
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_July_01
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Which_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_Jul_3
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Zero_Linden/Office_Hours/2008_July_03
July 8th, 2008 at 1:23 AM
That should have been:
wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/AW_Groupies/Chat_Logs/AWGroupies-2008-07-01
July 8th, 2008 at 1:24 AM
Fascinating Jim, it’s a SIM, but not as we know it… (raise one eyebrow)
Very interesting experiment - but I guess only a small step, after all what are our AVs but a combination of ourselves, the appearance we have chosen, the things we wear and the abilities we have from the attachments we chose. So, if we teleport over to OpenSim, but lose all but the ourselves component…. ummm… well
Still, it sounds fun, and I look forward to seeing what happens next.
PS the video was hilarious, and well worth watching!
July 8th, 2008 at 1:30 AM
What we saw was basically a logout and a login back to back.
The permission system needs redesign even for SL as it stands.
Perhaps extensions for inter-grid would include
- Permission to take an item component to a grid that is certified in a trust system - *a trust system with real teeth*.
- Permission to take an item component to another grid
IP?
Created by someone with no identity in a particular grid??
Group functions would not extend outside of a grid I suspect!
Some global grid-integrated IM system would be required.
Friends would need a revamp.
Cash? Ooooooooh
July 8th, 2008 at 1:33 AM
[...] kind of an announcement that Linden Labs and IBM made today, they have been working for one year on the OpenGrid Protocol that is supposed to enable [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 1:36 AM
“Q: Can regular SL users teleport to an OpenSim server now?
No. This experiment was conducted on a test grid under controlled conditions. Second Life users cannot currently teleport to OpenSim, or vice-versa.”
Good keep testing it; and I do mean this; every bit of code. Because I do not want to log in and find my L$ or inventory taken/ripped off because of yet another programing mistake or security flaw not detected by LL.
@13 agreed.
Cat
July 8th, 2008 at 1:41 AM
Sling, nope that was NOT what you saw at all. The realXtend viewer folk have ben doing logout/login for some time now. What this blog entry discusses is login to Second LIfe via the SL beta login server, and then teleport from one world to the other without logging out or back in.
The protocols for the login and teleport are on the wiki. They are part of the new Open Grid Protocols that the AWG (Linden Lab, IBM, and company) are designing to allow any and all virtual worlds to inter-operate.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:42 AM
Hillarious
There is already a program around that lets you save your created content to your harddrive to re-rezz it again on another OpenSimulator based platform.
There already several grids running, based on the reversed engineering by OpenSimulator.
These two will be combined in the near future and my guess is that it will beat Linden to it. Simply because opensource groups that do not have to protect their financial potential interests have more freedom to develop really what the people want.
Also I have seen contributions of vision for the future that go further then current Lindens. The good thing is that this cannot be stopped anymore. Linden was the pioneer but has lost its connection to the people completely. If something is proven then it is that people can win from companies if they want to and are with many.
Yes comments are deleted and people are banned for life on this Blog. But it won’t stop the Mayority. I will celebrate the OpenSimulator project when it reaches 5 years.
In the end, Democracy and a little anarchy will win
Never the less, Linden will be in the history books as the ones who created it and for that, and that only, I thank them from the bottom of my heart.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:51 AM
Geeze, Jonathen, read the chat logs at the URLs in messages 14 and 15. The OpenSImulator folk have been working with Linden Lab and IBM as part of the AWG. Zha Ewry of IBM (in Torley’s video), founder of AW Groupies, wrote login code for OpenSim to handle the login from Second Life a few weeks ago and another IBM researcher is an important “core” member of the OpenSimulator team. You’ll see members of the OpenSimulator team at almost every weekly AWG meeting. Its not like people from Linden Lab and OPen Simulator aren’t collaborating on this project.
July 8th, 2008 at 1:52 AM
the realXtend guys have had teleports between SL and Opensim written on their homepage as an implemented function for a long time - I regret I did not test it my self, only via login/logout
July 8th, 2008 at 1:56 AM
WOW! That is a nice announcement. Congratulations and best of luck with the project.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:02 AM
Well done! Awesome stuff - brilliant news! Bring it on!
July 8th, 2008 at 2:07 AM
[...] trovate la notizia della creazione del lab SL-IBM oggi, catturata al volo da [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 2:08 AM
Catten, no, this was a rewrite of both the Second Life server and the OpenSim server to allow a single login in one world and then a TP to the other world without logging out of the first one. RealXtend fakes it by logging out of Second LIfe and then logging into OpenSim. And realXtend’s method won’t allow sharing of ANY assets. Once the permissions system is implemented and tested (see messages 14 and 15 for links to the discussions about this), there is the possibility of sharing at least SOME assets with other worlds during teleport.
I’m certain that realXtend will implement this method as soon as possible, however.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:15 AM
@22 Saijanai Kuhn:
Oh Jee, I did not know that. Thank you for that information.
But if the ones who decided to create a grid system besides the Linden grid are now slowly becoming a part of the Linden Dynasty, then I am afriad I have to give up my hopes that something good will come to the world, for now.
Oh well, a new generation of real smart coders will rise and make this system really suitable for world usage. It will only take a little longer and I only hope that it will happen before the power of Linden is Microsoft sized. Because then it will really become hard. Still even then I will have hopes as even with the power of microsoft, Firefox is slowly winning after all. I just hope I live long enough to see it come to something really nice and not corporate forced upon the crowds like it is now. Just like the whole reason why the current 2D internet is great. Power to the majority of people instead of the companies with the most money.
But maybe I just have a too twisted mind and is my frustration about Linden fuzzing my view too much. I think I better call my schrink
July 8th, 2008 at 2:16 AM
This is Excelent news!!! Yes!
Way to go everyone involved!!
July 8th, 2008 at 2:20 AM
WOOOOW nice test and with succes.
July 8th, 2008 at 2:20 AM
Hooray!! This is the kind of news I was hoping was hoping would be the focus of many of the SL5B events!
July 8th, 2008 at 2:23 AM
fantastic and scary! scary in that the future is unknown and the rules of today’s business isl will change. but exciting in that the future comes regardless of any one person’s anxiety.
to open metaverses to each other will ultimately result in a wonderful collaboration and freedom for even greater opportunities just like the web has now. perhaps one day, the Lindens i earn isl will allow me to buy land and operate in an other metaverse.
there is no doubt to IBM’s commitment to sl and this type of work is what keeps sl on the forefront, i would hardly agree that sl and Linden Labs will pass away into the history books and become less relevant. i would point to those that said the same of IBM when they did not think the personal PC would catch on. looks like IBM adapted and is doing pretty well.
congrats to the passion of all those involved and bravo to a significant accomplishment
July 8th, 2008 at 2:32 AM
Oh Great! Now we can fly off into oblivion and get grey screened in a whole different virtual world. Did they test this on a Mac with a 2 wire router?
Seriously…this is a very big step for virtual worlds. Congratulations gang!
July 8th, 2008 at 2:32 AM
My feelings about this are a little mixed. One develops a fierce, almost perverse loyalty to second life and the whole Linden thing…
What will we all gripe about? Who will we blame?
July 8th, 2008 at 2:34 AM
Awesome. You’ve all done very well. Now make it work for real
July 8th, 2008 at 2:34 AM
[...] and Linden Lab have announced that they’ve accomplished interoperability between OpenSim and Second Life today, allowing [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 2:42 AM
It’s a step I suppose, but not much point TP ing to another grid yet if you arrive pretty much bare butt naked and may not even have your name if someone else has it already on that grid.
One day we will be able to walk/maybe even drive from one grid to another
July 8th, 2008 at 2:51 AM
Well done Linden.
This is a big step toward your Survival.
Well seeing the upcomming Mixi Deal in .jp the Open Grid getting Steam soon and the OGP getting necesserly for Linden. As Mixi will have a Mulitute of Registerd Accounts from the Beginning ( 20M Registerd Accounts currently as far as i Rember )
Keep up the Opening of the Grid, as faster as better
Then we will see the 3th Generation of Web sooner then most of us thought
July 8th, 2008 at 2:58 AM
For inventory why not work on an avatar key will be reconize in both world ? If an avatar use that same key in SL and OS why not inventory with not full right will be used in both ?
July 8th, 2008 at 3:01 AM
It’ll be really interesting if inter-world transfer starts up between more widely disparate metaverses than SL and OS. /me gets evil look on face… I can’t wait to see the WoW to EverQuest transfers
Then again, those aren’t user-created worlds. Still, it’s very interesting to watch things moving in this direction.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:07 AM
[...] Read the rest of the announcement on IBM and Linden Lab Interoperability [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 3:14 AM
lmao. So when were you going to work on performance and stability of your current product again?
July 8th, 2008 at 3:44 AM
Yea thanks linden lab for screwing up all the large group of private islands owners, its bad enough our islands are now worth so much less thatn what it is , and now there gona be worth nothing? so your still going to be telling people to buy islands with you and then the pore begggers find out that within a year an a half there islands will be worth nothing when all the large companies start populating the metaverse with there high end servers? you should quit whilst ur ahead.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:45 AM
Great .. the company that invented the typewriter to process the Holocaust has a success in development with a company that is responsible for our digital lives… *shivers*
OMFG … We are all going to di.. err.. be erased if history has a tendency to repeat itself ….. but at least it will all be documented, logged and stored …
But seriously … this is a step back for the residents and a step forward to a corporation controlled digital future. You hated adfarms ? You just wait …
/me feels very cold inside … (Yeah.. i really do not like IBM)
July 8th, 2008 at 3:49 AM
So, as others have said this is really old news. Having said that……
Will the upcoming beta be open only to specific opensim-based grids, opensim in general or anyone willing to implement the standard? Some of us prefer our free metaverse without .NET
July 8th, 2008 at 3:50 AM
I look forward to TPing to other opensims without problems in 5 years time. However, this is indeed an historic day, congratulations.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:50 AM
Well done, that was the sort of thing I was expecting Mitch Kapor to show in his keynote, but was rather hoping it would be announced as avalible rather then just a first test.
Great Video Torley, I loved the StarTrek type ‘Matirialisation’ and the toung in cheek referance to the Apollo Program
July 8th, 2008 at 3:52 AM
Daten - if you think that your island is an investment rather than a hosting service, then you’re mistaken. You may treat it as an investment, but LL sold you a hosting service, not real estate with guaranteed appreciation in value.
July 8th, 2008 at 3:57 AM
Cool news, lol cheesy video.
It’d be nice if the attachments went over, I guess that may come in some time.
SDF
July 8th, 2008 at 3:58 AM
Linden lab sold me hosting for my sims yes, BUT i do not pay for my own asset server, my own backup serrver , i spoke to zha and went thew the costs of hosting evey sever needed to get a grid runing, or i chose to take the option of finding some private grid that will just charge me like linden labs does? this is going to screw every land owner unless they are some one like anche chung who will pay out for an asset/backup asset/bandwith requierd/ ect the list goes on to make it cost effective and if you get the big companies in the future E.G AT&T, AOL, BT, IBM then there would be no point in owning an island
July 8th, 2008 at 4:00 AM
Great now when SL™® goes blooey we can all tp to another world and make it go blooey also! Scalability!
July 8th, 2008 at 4:02 AM
I can’t wait to have my own sim running on my own server, accessible for all residents.
Congrats!
July 8th, 2008 at 4:06 AM
You can run quite a few sims on a dedicated server that costs $100/month, how much do LL charge?
And let’s not forget, nothing’s going to stop LL from still offering sim hosting, and they’ll likely end up lowering prices to be competitive eventually.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:09 AM
It seems to me that if the code for all this is really open source, it won’t be hard for people to get around any IP restrictions that of necessity will be coded into the legitimate and well meaning code on all this. There has to be a way for any legitimate opensim to ban cmmerse (both ways) with a renegade hacker opensim that does not conform to the IP standards on both ends. Perhaps an OpenSim federation that has InterWorld laws that they all acknowledge. those not part of the federation and fully in line with the IP laws of the federation can do what ever they want, but will not be in commerce with the federation.
This is an interesting issue - but Linden and IBM better get it right- There are a number of us who depend on this protection for part or all of our livelihood!!!
July 8th, 2008 at 4:10 AM
hmm. sounds nice, but I don’t like it. Please never allow anything to move over from SL to an other platform. no assets no cash nothing.
I am afraight for theft and fraude. Even SL is not completely safe, and if SL is connected to several other worlds that problem will multiply.
But it sounds nice if SL was an utopia.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:11 AM
The protection is server-side on the asset server. A rogue sim/grid will never get your stuff if you don’t set the right permissions to allow it.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:17 AM
This IS really exciting and my congratulations to both IBM and Linden Labs for this accomplishment. Now just make sure that when my avi travels, her whole inventory gets to come along….. (g)
July 8th, 2008 at 4:17 AM
its not as simple as just shoving sims on a dedicated server, you need a grid to put it on , so you will be paying that grid company to use their grid. then the inicial investment some of us have payed then we lost 40% because its droped to 1000, now we lose even more because linden labs try and compeet. all private island owners are being conned as we speak and untill some linden proves me wrong im gona scream about it
July 8th, 2008 at 4:22 AM
I always find it amusing how people complained about the price increases for tier and islands, and now people are complaining about reduced prices.
As for paying a grid provider, it depends on the provider. Some will charge you to link your own server. Some will manage the server for you and charge you per sim (like LL do). Some will let you link up your own server for free. Try OSGrid if you have your own hardware and want to experiment for example. There’s also various commercial providers popping up which I won’t name here as it’s inappropriate, but I invite you to go looking.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:25 AM
Oh Great News……now how about fixing all the problems in Second Life with the resources you have available? Did you forget we are paying for a service here, not supporting your experimental fantasies!
???????????????????????????????????????????????
July 8th, 2008 at 4:35 AM
While I agree this is a huge achievement for technology, I would still like to see some concerns addressed. If you think about it, won’t this make the in-world economy weaker? I realize that this game is unique in that at actually has a real life economy, but isn’t that the draw for sooo many here? We are able to pay for the use of the game through our businesses…be it clothing, scripts, land, etc. Won’t land businesses become obsolete? Heck, with the new items you get now for free and so many open source scripts, those types of businesses may no longer be needed too. This is the wave of the future, I know. This game appeared special because it was driven by the residents and I see it going very corporate…:(
July 8th, 2008 at 4:36 AM
@ 60 Second Lfe is a experimental fantasy
July 8th, 2008 at 4:42 AM
“his game appeared special because it was driven by the residents and I see it going very corporate… :(”
1 - not a game, how do you win exactly?
2 - it’s becoming LESS corporate - it’s becoming decentralised and more free and open
July 8th, 2008 at 4:47 AM
Once again the socially inept geeks and nerds come up with something that is oh sooo totally cool!! Like 99% of us care?? fix stability,and asset issues!! oh..but that does take some social responsibility…..something seemingly lacking from the folks @ LL. Its all about see what we can do now? …weeee !! NEW!! FLASHY!! SHINY!!
Get real!!
July 8th, 2008 at 4:54 AM
@63, stop being such a big head alot of people call sl a game,even tho is not. not alot of people who hae the servers setup for them by linden lab are going to know how to setup the server for use with a grid, and if you look carefully you will see people who wined were the ones who lost money, people who said yay were people who hadent spent any.
July 8th, 2008 at 4:57 AM
Maybe this will allow a user to run a standalone sim on their PC while maintaining connectivity to the SL grid? This indeed would be exciting!
July 8th, 2008 at 4:57 AM
@65
Yes, a lot of people mistakenly call it a game, and it’s something trivial but irritating.
Yes, a lot of people won’t know how to setup a server themselves, but those that don’t still have the option of paying LL or someone outside of LL and those that do now have the option of setting up their own server and eventually linking it up to SL.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:06 AM
@62 I do prefer the word platform over game, but some do consider it just a game, while others, like myself, conduct business here. To clarify my corporate statement…While open source is very good and does open things up for others, it is still the corporates who benefit….make the real money. Also, these are just my thoughts and opinions and I am still trying to get my head around it all. I do feel this is the wave of the future and virtual land and space will all become part of your ISP package.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:10 AM
Congrats on this collaboration and breakthrough.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:12 AM
Of course right now it’s LL and a few big-shot residents who make the real money. Some residents make a net loss, some make a small profit, a few make enough of a profit to make it a full time job, and very few make enough to become actually rich.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:23 AM
Very nice Im sure. But how about a few technical changes which might mean something to regular users of sl and give them more for their money… more prims per plot of ground maybe? an end to crashing during the move between sl regions let alone worlds ? Larger prims ? A wider variety of prim shapes ? The ability to bend and warp prims and cut holes in them wherever required ? The ability to put fonts onto builds and prims ?
July 8th, 2008 at 5:24 AM
While congratulations are in order for a technical achievement, I tend to agree with Ann (#4). I can see the clear benefit to corporations (and to Linden Lab; most of us remember Wells Fargo); I can see how the “free everything” crowd will be happy; but I also see the “top of the pyramid” opting for a virtual space which more vigorously addresses their IP concerns and actively protects the irrecoverable Time invested in creating content. Whether or not Second Life is that virtual space seems to be the $64,000 question.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:32 AM
@71
You do realise LL are not abandoning other development, right?
July 8th, 2008 at 5:34 AM
Just considering … how many and whose grid will be allowed transfers and connections to the real life financial networks and data of the maingrid of Second Life ?
And what if governments purchase gridsystems of IBM and want to connect to Second Life ? What if the Linden economy and your local reallife ID will be required to participate in it all ? What if you can only connect to your digital identity with conformed I(nternet) P(rotocol) - address through a governed-by your-local-authorities-only-grid and THEN connect to Second Life ?
How else would IP rights be controlled ?
:O
Seems more than like just a ‘game under construction’ …
July 8th, 2008 at 5:40 AM
[...] As announced on the Linden Lab blog today, IBM and Linden Lab have successfully teleported avatars from the Second Life preview grid to an OpenSim virtual world. [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 5:40 AM
Uh, this is pretty much non-news isn’t it? Transferring an avatar from one virtual world to the next isn’t much more than simply exporting the mesh and textures from one and importing it into another. I fail to see why this is exciting, historic, or press worthy.
While interoperability sounds like a great idea on paper, there are still a lot of issues to be worked out, particularly in the realms of security, IP protection, commerce, and so forth. Making everything wide open and knocking down all the walled gardens is short sighted and ultimately disadvantageous for the industry at large, at least until these issues are solved.
One last note: Second Life is not a game!
July 8th, 2008 at 5:49 AM
@73 maybe not but introducing a few changes which would actually benefit (and be of visible benefit) to people who come to sl to build, to create and explore would be nice… I crashed crossed sim boundaries when I joined 12 months ago I still do if I want to put a window in a wall I still have to use umpteen prims, if I want to put fonts on a build I still have to import, the number of prims per plot hasnt changed either.
July 8th, 2008 at 5:51 AM
and I wonder if when I eventually make the jaunt to brave new virtual worlds Im going to be ringed by glowing red ban lines which deny me the right to explore or even move as they often do in sl…..
July 8th, 2008 at 5:55 AM
@4: Perhaps you need to learn about software engineering
An amusing thing to say immediately after showing your ignorance of the concept of “unit testing”.
@76: I fail to see why this is exciting, historic, or press worthy.
That’s okay. Leave that to the people who actually have some idea of what it takes to do backport such interoperability into a complex existing system
July 8th, 2008 at 6:04 AM
@79 perhaps the person who wrote comment 76 like me would actually like to see a few changes which benefit and improve sl for its less technocratic - users rather than being something for elitist technophiles like your self to rub your hands together over..
July 8th, 2008 at 6:07 AM
Isn’t this old news and the work of Zha, not IBM?
Or are you trying to bury Mitch’s ridiculous and insulting keynote quickly with fluff.
Look at yourselves closely Linden Lab, you are going from worse to a laughing stock.
July 8th, 2008 at 6:09 AM
Wow - does this mean anything - and has the *actual* av transferred to the open grid?
I mean this isn’t physical RL teleport as in sci fi, where the entire person (thoughts, body shape etc) is transferred. This is transferring an avatar, a visual representation based on a bunch of pixels. If your appearance isn’t transferred, is this actually transferring the same avatar?
(But in other news… um transferring the same “name” - well I guess it is a small step towards ID.)
July 8th, 2008 at 6:12 AM
Of course, some of us had grid interop implemented way before Zha’s experiment:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/gwengareth/2518519577/
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/User:Gareth_Ellison/Supergrid
http://www.litesim.com/blog/19
I often log into SL and other grids using one standard viewer (without reconfiguring it!) on a regular basis just by changing the start location
July 8th, 2008 at 6:21 AM
We are thinking of SL as a monolithic set of servers …. in reality there are sims, asset servers, and so on.
What if anyone could host a grid … but to be connected to the network of grids SL is on they need to use LL’s database? Then LL charges them for that use of course.
For the asset servers we could have read of objects by any grid. Write would only be allowed by the originating one though. When I say ‘read’ I mean in such a way as we assume a cracked server, absolutely no way of bypassing no copy/no transfer/no modify. There may be a few more details of the permissions system I have forgotten (hey, it is pre-caffeine), but that approach should be a good first step.
One debate is whether or not content creators should or should not be able to restrict their creations to one grid or another. This issue is a thorny one, what do we do about content whose creators have left SL? Some may want it one way and others another, but who can say which ones would say what?
July 8th, 2008 at 6:21 AM
The question is if I jump into IBMS ‘world’ will I be expected to pay for being there or is the hope that I will become another premium member… isn’t there a risk that people might start exploring and fnd they prefer other virtual worlds and jump ship ? Or are Lindens hoping IBM might ‘buy em out’….
July 8th, 2008 at 6:31 AM
It’s suppose to be a historic day when we can teleport to other grids while getting ruthed and losing inventory? One can already get ruthed, borked, buried, or lose inventory just from crossing into the next region. What will be the next epic announcement?
July 8th, 2008 at 6:33 AM
@79 “That’s okay. Leave that to the people who actually have some idea of what it takes to do backport such interoperability into a complex existing system”
Cute. It isn’t my fault that SL is a complex existing system. I’ve always been of the opinion that SL could have been designed and architected much better from the start. That aside, I could care less how easy or difficult this avatar transfer process was, my point is that I don’t see why it is news worthy or a big deal.
SL has consistently been marketed as new and innovative for years, even as it has rehashed old technology and ideas, as well as failed to keep pace with the MMO sector (also virtual worlds).
This seems like more of the same…a good way for more press and making it seem that SL is much more advanced and trailblazing than it really is. It wouldn’t surprise me to see a press release where SL announces some new and innovative feature like letting users create their own names instead of choosing stupid precanned ones from a list. That’s press worthy too, right? Of course, that must be really difficult to do with such a complex system.
Anyway, as I said, interoperability is a good idea on paper, but the implementation that people are rushing towards willy-nilly isn’t well thought out, and is definitely half-baked.
One last thing, who was doing the goofy voice on the video? It sounded like a poor imitation of Emo Phillips after a few too many tequila shots.
July 8th, 2008 at 6:54 AM
@87 You’re unbelievably ignorant. That’s Torley. If you don’t know him, you clearly don’t understand/get Second Life. I recommend hitting the books before throwing some cheap-ass potshots, bro.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:11 AM
@88 Those weren’t cheap ass potshots, and just because I don’t keep up with who is who and what nicks they use in SL doesn’t make me ignorant or lacking understanding about what SL is. That’s like saying I don’t understand/get pizza because I don’t know Papa John’s real name.
I stand by my comments and I’m more than happy to debate the finer issues of interoperability, virtual worlds, virtual commerce, IP, or any other related topic.
Torley if you took offense, none was intended.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:19 AM
[...] were even working on a solution to the landbot-theft issues,) does it come as any surprise that on the Second Life bog that they announce this: Tuesday, July 8th, 2008 at 12:01 AM by: Hamilton Linden “This is a historic day for Second [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 7:20 AM
I personally feel the problem is that Lindens make all these grand ‘let them eat cake’ style announcements and new schemes while we don’t seem to get anywhere with those ‘ground level’ issues which seem to affect ordinary sl users most. I’d say focus youre efforts on at least stabilising the boundaries between sims before stabilising jumps between worlds. I’m sure this problem has been around a lot longer than the 12 months I’ve been here.
Let us at least be able to step off the side walk safely before boarding the interspatial teleportation mechanism to the great unknown……
July 8th, 2008 at 7:21 AM
Its funny how people are complaining about content being taken into other worlds lol. Linden Labs cant even keep there own content in there own world let alone transfer it to another lol.. Woke up this morning with almost 80% of my clothes missing from database. Now thats a heck of an achievement there. Yeah keep up the great work pfft
July 8th, 2008 at 7:21 AM
[...] IBM and Linden Lab Interoperability Announcement « Official Second Life Blog [...]
July 8th, 2008 at 7:24 AM
Thanks for posting the update Hamilton. Amazing to see people slagging this blog post off the way they do critizing just about everything under the sun.
My main concern with be scripts. Most things like objects and textures can be stolen, apart from scripts because they never leave the server. This will all change if people are allowed to take them from SL onto an OpenSim.
Also fascinating to see how currency is handled between SL and OpenSim. I guess each grid/sim owner would have to have their own currency exchange. The mind boggles. But at the very least someone could use a weak currency on an OpenSim to purchase something and then just take that item back into SL.
One thing is for certain though. The open-source community don’t give a crap about commercial software. They’d rather see it die than exist in parallel with it. That’s the impression I’ve got anyway. Ironic when all they do is rip off commercial software and ideas anyway, usually badly. This whole undertaking needs to be bulletproof.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:25 AM
Great news. Seriously.
I am sure Microsoft is waiting for their chance to swallow SL up as soon as it is finished. A private virtual world on every desktop.
I guess I better enjoy this while I can.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:28 AM
@95 you’rethe sort of guy who if he’d been on the titanic would have said ‘we’re sinking but the ships beautifully designed’
July 8th, 2008 at 7:30 AM
now ppl can see our ruths in other worlds? nooooooooes! 8-0 cool tho 8D
July 8th, 2008 at 7:36 AM
@98 I thought ruth had been replaced with the plasma bolt from a romulan war bird… I see enough of em about
but personally I thought it was an upward step on the evolutionary ladder from being some squat neaderthal female 
July 8th, 2008 at 7:36 AM
@97 Probably lol but it’s better than critizing the captain, the ice berg, every ship employee in turn, God, the life boat, all the passengers, and the captains dog.
People seem to be getting a kick over pouncing on every SL blog post and being negative about everything imaginable. It’s getting old pretty quick.
July 8th, 2008 at 7:37 AM
Thanks for the commitment and work that it bringing this about! We are excited as we enter this phase of virtual worlds, as many of us participate in multiple grids. It is true that a lot of work needs to be done to implement the OGP, and the OpenSimulator team is developing code at blinding speed to bring a lot of this about.
Many of us participate in the non-profit OSGrid (http://www.osgrid.org) to test and build confidence/understanding in the system. Region servers are hosted by individuals, educational institutions and corporations around the globe using a variety of technology. Most of us run the bleeding edge source, updating/restarting our sims several times each day, and monitor/participate in #osgrid/#opensim/#opensim-dev on freenode.net.
There are a variety of ways for willing participants to contribute to this effort. Many discussions are starting regarding IP and content, and these need to happen so everyone can gain understanding and develop a mindset that understands things from a “metaversal” viewpoint. Saijanai Kuhn has pointed out the AW Groupies, where a lot of the discussion has been taking place. Also, anyone wanting to see what is happening “on the other side of the ether” should checkout OSGrid at http://www.osgrid.org.
Looking forward to this next step, very much!
July 8th, 2008 at 7:38 AM
If I read certain parts of the closing speech right yesterday…that LL will be ‘tightening’ some rules in the future (which i read as cleaning up the content and getting rid of the undesirables one way or another) then being able to transfer my inventory and assets to another, less restrictive grid someday is a really big deal. Second Life can be the virtual Disneyland and me and my Gorean friends can live happily elsewhere….and prolly pay less for doing so.