Return of the Old Land Store
Thursday, April 24th, 2008 at 2:58 PM by: cynlindenBest laid plans of mice and men often go awry… the new Land Store is just not ready to ship.
Rather than inflict you guys with a tool that isn’t ready yet, we have decided to bring the old store back up with the new prices. All the old challenges remain (doesn’t work in IE, wait time for delivery) but you will be able to place orders as you have in the past.
You will still be unable to order Openspaces via the old store, and the delays there will continue to be long as we deal with backorders. New island orders will go up as quickly as possible, and we will keep you updated on the progress of not only those orders but of the new store as well.
Thanks much.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:01 PM
sighs was liking the thought of instant delievery shame you did not put the new pricing into effect when you announed the new pricing as i canceled several sim orders in waiting for hte new pricing to come into effect so now have to palce orders and still wait 2-3 weeks for them where i could have had the new sims already in place
oh well such is life
thanks for the update
April 24th, 2008 at 3:08 PM
But you’ll save quite a lot of money for the wait
April 24th, 2008 at 3:08 PM
[RESOLVED] New Land Store
April 24th, 2008 at 3:09 PM
Meh…Hopefully it gets to new land store when im able to buy a iisle.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:19 PM
I placed an order on 4/10 for two open space sims and they are still “in process”. I was told a week ago that concierge was “working on orders placed on 4/9 and it should be “”anytime”"….” today I was told the exact same thing. I do not mind a wait, and I understand if technical issues happen, but as an extremely good customer, I do expect honest information to be provided. I would also expect Jack and Cyn to help the team plan out the work, looking at staff available and number of orders in queue to be able to advise people of estimated timeframes. These are normal expectations that paying customers of any other business have. I love SL, but LL needs to quickly learn what service and support are all about.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:21 PM
At least they opened something, instead of just leaving people hanging.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:23 PM
Where is the info on these open spaces? It’s not in the landstore FAQ
April 24th, 2008 at 3:24 PM
i appreciate the conservative deployment approach.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:25 PM
>>Rather than inflict you guys with a tool that isn’t ready yet<<
If you were serious about this, you would never have forced viewers upon us that are completely unstable. I am using the Nicholaz Viewer and have been for a while now as it is the only version that I can use that does not cause me to crash every 10 minutes. The RC viewers are a joke. Why would I Beta test for you when I’m paying you for service? When I read the blogs, I simply feel sorry for all the people posting as I know exactly what they are going through. Sad thing is, even the new island pricing simply isn’t worth it. Selling my land and becoming homeless in SL was the first step I took in the right direction. Now if I only hadn’t paid for a premium account in advance. =(
~Long time resident (12/16/05) frustrated with the lack of performance in SL since the updates began in November of 2007.
April 24th, 2008 at 3:26 PM
“Rather than inflict you guys with a tool that isn’t ready yet”
You’re sooo asking for trouble with that line :p
There appear to be some communication problems within LL over this, does someone owe Jack an apology?
Are there any sort of timelines at all? I’m sure plenty of people are interested in getting new openspaces, in all the furore surrounding this move, the one very popular move was the change in openspace specs and hardly anybody was complaining about the drop in openspace pricing, obviously those who’d just ordered one were rightly miffed but there was no general complaint about lower priced openspaces (which should give you a hint about acceptable price drops but that’s a different story).
April 24th, 2008 at 3:29 PM
I rather appreciate you releasing the old land store with new prices - then telling us were getting new prices soon, and making us wait a month or two. Thanks LL *Calls in to confirm OpenSpace with parents*
April 24th, 2008 at 3:37 PM
Please clarify on OpenSpace: are they at the new price and can we re-open orders that we were told to close?
April 24th, 2008 at 3:41 PM
Can you please link us to the correct procedure to use to order a void/water/Open Space sim?
We’ve got two that need ordering, and we have been holding off on that for the new store’s arrival.
Thanks!
Mako
April 24th, 2008 at 3:43 PM
Thanks for letting us know, Cyn!
I’m off to place an order right now, this was a huge help as a whole bunch of new Caledon residents have been waiting.
Des
April 24th, 2008 at 3:44 PM
i wish this would be done with other mistakes too like the new communicator windo.. sadly it won’t happen
and still no answers to our questions about content theft. yay. you guys are so interested in your creators
April 24th, 2008 at 3:45 PM
I just wish You did not have to Own a Full Prim sim , In order to Buy a Open Space one ..
April 24th, 2008 at 3:49 PM
I’m disappointed you’re not going to reward those of us who’ve supported you for so long.
We bought islands–purchased the virtual real estate (not paid ’setup fees’ as you’ve started calling them in the past few weeks) and you instantly devalued them by 40%.
Its our continued support through the terrible system problems you’ve had on and off over the past couple of years. We’ve diligently paid tier fees even though things have been so bad at times it was impossible to use the system.
You’re really going to leave us out in the cold? You’re not going to reward us with any sort of longevity or future purchase discounts? Obviously I (and many, many, many other established content creators here) are disappointed.
-fatz
April 24th, 2008 at 3:56 PM
Can I please have an explanation on what is an Open Space? This is not even in the wiki or any of the land docs.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:03 PM
I appreciate plans can mess up, and I appreciate backlogs too. But when a Linden tells us that a sim will be delivered in 5-10 days, we expect 5-10 days. Otherwise the Linden should have said a MONTH (which is what it’s almost been… and still waiting…)
It’s not the delay… it’s the BS.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:03 PM
I wish LL would take the same stance that they do on the land store, that they do with their Clients and pretty much everything else that makes SL what it is. “Oh, it doesn’t quite work right, let’s go back to the drawing board and make sure it works correctly, or at least up to a decent level”, but that would be too much to ask for, wouldn’t it?
April 24th, 2008 at 4:04 PM
Things get cheaper in the IT-Biz very quick. Everyone knows that, but many ppl don’t want to accept that here.
If one buys a PC today it will be half priced very soon and no one would think about complaining at the store.
The cheaper it will get the more ppl it will attract. If you think low land prices ruin SL you are a landlord
All other biz owners hope for cheap land so more ppl come to buy their goods (with money they didnt spend on land).
Kisses Ice
April 24th, 2008 at 4:05 PM
@17
I sold my 2th island and preparing now the sale of my 1st island !
Youre absolutely right …. we have been ripped off, but like I mentioned it already in previous blogs, the LINDEN strategy is focussing on a new start with new customers and to get rid of the old fix customerbase !
the old customerbase is too clever to go ahead with (and probably also the ones that are whining too much and costing LINDENLABS too much money !
cosa
April 24th, 2008 at 4:07 PM
lol:)
April 24th, 2008 at 4:08 PM
@ 18 Todd: http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/07/announcing-changes-to-the-openspace-product/#comments
That tells about Open Space sims… 1/4 prim sims at about 1/4 the price. A basically nice idea except they’re only available to existing island owners, which means you still have to buy a full island in order to take advantage of Open Space.
So not such a good deal after all.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:15 PM
@21
if ya look around the grid, 60 % off it looks like a dump or is abandonned ! Everyone simowner who bought land in the past had to adapt their prices to reach a breakeven level (1695 US$ purchase + 295 US$ tier to linden per month) !
most simowners were lucky to reach this breakeven point and to have some extra to invest further in the quality of there sims !
if the prices drop with 40 % in one day, that means that the old simowners cant sell there land anymore and if they sell they have to reduce there prices with 40 % also = loosing money !
I hope that u understand my point here ?
also looking to the actual situation of the grid performance, more sims will only create more problems ! LINDEN is not capable to process more than 60.000 avatars logged in at the same time !
so, anyhow I decided to end it here asap after 1 year of hard work !
cosa
April 24th, 2008 at 4:16 PM
@25: Why not a good deal? Openspaces are meant to supplement regular islands in the first place, not be standalone. It’s a great deal that I won’t have to buy four of them at once before I can expand my island (I can only afford two openspaces for the time being). And of course the reduced price and the doubling of prims is great, too.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:17 PM
@17:
In a realistic business model, startup costs are not considered value added, they’re write-offs, like your tier fees, like your internet surcharges, and any other cost of doing business. Business VALUE is equal to profits, plain and simple. If you’re worried about recouping your startup costs, things must not be going so well.
That being said, I’m not against you. I think Linden is shafting content providers at every turn. This, however, is not the topic to gripe about that on, so I won’t. This is the topic to applaud the Lindens for ANOTHER EPIC FAILURE!
April 24th, 2008 at 4:19 PM
Well I’ll be buying inworld - lots of sims at the new prices are being offered. Support Tickets are quicker imho.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:20 PM
What a royal cluster……. Well I’ve been tossed from billing to concreirge to billing to conceirge….assured by Gavin of billing “i’d be more irrate than you barb if this happened to me” all from the customer service page 2. What the heck is going on Jack. You said you would get back to me ….IF you had time. I just find this all so very trainwreck.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:20 PM
@28
I wouldnt talk about BUSINESS VALUE, but about PETTY CASH VALUE combined with creative fun
cosa
April 24th, 2008 at 4:20 PM
[...] Return of the Old Land Store « Official Second Life Blog Blogged with the Flock Browser [...]
April 24th, 2008 at 4:22 PM
You know, with the change of the old land store coming back, how about going a step further and making sure that your SL program doesn’t fry another computer system like it did with my soulmate’s new one?! He crashed 5-10 times in about 1 hr, then found out that your program fried his new soundcard and USB ports. How about testing each update for about a year to get ALL the kinks out so that it doesn’t happen again? We’ve a business to run and that DIDN’T HELP.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:27 PM
[...] sigh* The old Land Store is coming back. They’re bringing back the (evil) old Land Store because the new one’s still not ready. New prices are in effect, but you still can’t order [...]
April 24th, 2008 at 4:29 PM
Sedary@26: Regardless of what they’re “meant for”, why do you think you shouldn’t be able to just buy an Openspace without having to have a full price island. I don’t mean “because LL doesn’t do that”, I mean “what problems would it cause if you could”?
April 24th, 2008 at 4:30 PM
Any news on whether or not the openspaces will be released for all to buy once the new Land Store is finally up and running?
Would just be nice to have some answers..help us decide if we should re-order through a third party or ride out the storm and wait.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:30 PM
More troubles followed by a oh-so-happy video tutorial note on the blog - why on earth do you keep tormenting users with these damn videos showing them things they can’t do because SL is in meltdown?
*Tip of the Day* - think before you post these things. People here are way past the point where a brightly coloured, pretty screen will cheer them up.
Looks around for our brand new helpful Linden Katt…..
April 24th, 2008 at 4:31 PM
The best thing you can do is withdraw any investment you have in SL. Money talks. Buy an Island when LL has proven they can provide a stable environment for you to enjoy that Island. The problem is that there is a whole new generation of SL users to take your place and fund SL. Unfortunately there really isn’t any decent competition at the moment to show LL that it might be wise to try to retain long-term customers (investment) as well as generate new customers. Afterall, SL’s old-school residents will someday be a competitors new residents. The unstable environment we will never grow accustomed to, will simply give us a valid excuse to try other alternatives. I’ve tried more games in the past four or five months than I have in my entire life. All running perfectly smooth on my computer. Unfortunately, I think a massive revenue loss is the only kind of message LL will ever understand, and by then it will be too late.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:34 PM
@37 Ryanna– Probably one of the most “eyes open” posts I’ve seen in a long time. You nailed it on the head. I see two possibilities: either LL is going to wise up and start offering quality product at a reasonable price… or someone else is going to do so and SL is going to become a ghost town.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:41 PM
Groan. I wanted to order an OpenSpace sim to attach to my other sim, and have been waiting and waiting like the rest of you for this “new land store” after the LL folks made me wait three weeks to get my current sim through something as simple as a transfer of ownership with nothing to even set up. We need M Linden to take a look at these issues and whip some things into shape in his new role, and do so ASAP!
April 24th, 2008 at 4:43 PM
I’m so glad I’ve sold off my Sims . . . wouldn’t buy another PI from LL on a dare.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:45 PM
@Blinders…with reference to having open sim available to anyone without having to have a full price sim…..There would be an almighty land price crash…….followed swiftly by a LL crashed….put simply…no more SL.
April 24th, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Thanks for the info also If I am correct I see that the 10 Sims aday on mainland auctions that Jack Posted about a few week ago has been cancelled as it still remains as 4 Sims which I think was the right move
for now Happy days but If you do roll out the 10 aday plz let us know ty 
April 24th, 2008 at 5:02 PM
@34 - Allowing anyone to get an Openspace/void/water sim would gut the sim land rental market. A large number of private islands would go out of business and be shut down should that happen.
This would be a very disruptive policy change and would for the most part, really put the nail in the economic coffin of many of the small time and special interest sim owners like myself. The larger land barrons would also take a significant hit as well.
The price changes have already put the hurt on a lot of folks, this kind of policy would be the final straw that would cause a large exodus of small players and burn a lot of good will bridges down.
This would fundamentally change the community face of the game. Many small groups of say two to six people would break off to buy and share their own OpenSpace sims as it would be cheaper for them to do that than to rent.
At the individual and small group level, this may/not be a good/bad thing, but for community based sims this would be a disaster, as the large community would be fragmented into small bits, leaving the sim owners with no renters and few other financial options to pay the monthly tier.
Keeping the full sim ownership requirement to order an Openspace sim prevents all that from happening. As a pro-community sim owner, I would like to see the current status quo continue.
- Mako
April 24th, 2008 at 5:05 PM
@ 27
I don’t know what “realistic business model” you have learned or how you came about that brilliant approach to achieving total failure.
Maybe you work for Linden Labs.
Any person that does not ecpect to recoup their start up cost with in a reasonable amount of time would never make a profit.
And right now anyone planing on undertaking any form of business venture in second life needs to look past the smoke and mirrors before investing even 10 cents.
April 24th, 2008 at 5:06 PM
@ Windchaser Sounds like infantile failure on your partners computer. SL does put a massive load on video cards and power supplys but the usb port and sound card are not affected. The game on the other hand is a great stress test for new machines and I would imagine this would have happened in time and that the computer would have been flakey. Sorry to hear about your problems but I have seen it many times with the poor QC that todays mass produced systems employee. Just for an example a friend bought a new gamer machine and recieved a nice 1 terabyte HD that could have been a coffee grinder and this was sold as brand new, obviously never tested or burned in.
April 24th, 2008 at 5:10 PM
@43 Totally agreed Mako……but it would be like the wholesaler going direct to the market and missing out the middle man…which has been done succesfully before……..however in this particular instance if it happened it would be like the collapse of a star….expanding to gobble up all those willing to buy their piece of land…and then as value plummeted the market would collapse in on itself leaving pretty much the carcas of a spent SL.
At the end of the day a thriving economy is what makes SL tick….gives it that giant strides advantage over the competition…and althought the content makers are hugely important in SL it is Land that truly is the heartbeat of the SL economy.
April 24th, 2008 at 5:30 PM
Guys, hate to say it but SL days are up. Watch the new platforms coming out with better graphics no concurrency issues and inhibiting 70 avatar restrictions. First they left our content creators high and dry the ones who helped shape some of the amazing spaces making ip theft acceptable. Then the dev companies all start to jump ship. Now they hurt sim owners and still fail to provide anything stable. Its a complete farce and shame on the lack of integrity shown. I am out for good.
April 24th, 2008 at 5:35 PM
*coughs* umm.. what if we want to get a void ? Do we then have to order it via ticket again ? but at the new price ? *sighs* >goes to bed with a nasty headace<
April 24th, 2008 at 5:43 PM
But Mousie, thou are no thy-lane,
In proving foresight may be vain:
The best laid schemes o’ Mice an’ Men,
Gang aft agley,
An’ lea’e us nought but grief an’ pain,
For promis’d joy!
April 24th, 2008 at 5:47 PM
@ 47 Yes, Helen very sorry to say you have it. Sl is toast. Those of us who can create will go to the next best thing at light speed, leaving SL as the AOL of virtual worlds (LOL).
If you need any other clue to read, just look at the name the new ceo picked. This is a classic example of an over his head founder picking a “savior” from the ranks of the oracles of the obvious.
Save this post techie know-it-alls. Some of us can see the big picture.
April 24th, 2008 at 5:49 PM
Simple is best. You did the right thing folks, thank you.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:06 PM
[...] Lab announced that they are initiating new land pricing immediately, in spite the fact that the new land store [...]
April 24th, 2008 at 6:13 PM
thanks for putting it back up as a temp measure. and best of luck with the new store. i won’t even pretend to have a clue at how complicated that must be! but in due time
April 24th, 2008 at 6:13 PM
I will help my friend to buy some islands at new price. .. thanks for the updates.
April 24th, 2008 at 6:30 PM
mmmmmmmm Your all being conned the excuses that these guys give you and you all fall right into it don’t you?? building an island is as easy as falling off one they could make the avatars micro size and you would never notice LL is not giving you nothing in fact they may be taking it away from you i have worked with more cad software programs than second lifes micro hot dinners what they are doing is renaming everthing to suit them l/l want all powers just like all goverments and microsoft companies your not getting cheaper your getting less get it into your i am a computer geek and i know everything head and stop making out you know what your talking about !! Linden lab are here to make money not to give it away so linden less taking!! more giving please I think us guys deserve something off you that bloody works :{
April 24th, 2008 at 6:48 PM
I have learned not to take any notice if that word RESOLVED. Has as much import as “Till Death Do Us Part.”
April 24th, 2008 at 6:55 PM
Should I place an order under the old system and wait?
or
Should I wait for the new system and then place an order for instant delivery?
Hmmn, both also have to wait….
April 24th, 2008 at 7:02 PM
The first words that came out of my mouth watching the title of this blog… was a BIG “WAHAHA, OMG, ARE THEY SERIOUS!?”
And that sums it all.
I don’t want to say anything else, its just laughable. XD
April 24th, 2008 at 7:36 PM
“Rather than inflict you guys with a tool that isn’t ready yet”+
lol serious?
SL isnt working as well, do you make it off and get the old SL back? no lol…
im landmanager and we ordered many many sims….
i wait now 5 WEEKS for my openspace sims, but like everyone can emagine its NOT ONLINE YET…..
normally when it goes for money LL is really REALLY fast… but they got the money now and wait for the delivery of the sims weeks and weeks
and i guess i dont have to speak about the other issues within SL or?
Linden Labs, if you dont do something like a wonder or so - you will soon, very soon - have ALL residents against you and paing no tiers and so till all is fixed… look how many people left sl and left theire lands/sims….
i bet very soon will it give something very big from residents against Linden Lab
you are maybe “owners” or employees by the owning company
BUT SL belongs to the residents!
ALL of the sims are made by residents! all commercial, residential, everything whats build on it and we own it…
we do SL!
what is, if we, the residents, just STOP to do everything?
stop ordering sims, stop paying Land tier, stop creating, just stop
what is then? what will you do then?
if you stay like this Linden Lab, Second Life goes DOWN there you have my BET on it!!
and my 2nd bet is that on things like this they will never do an answer or just remove that comment….
am i right or not
April 24th, 2008 at 7:58 PM
Mako@34: If they don’t apply the tier price curve to standalone openspaces, I could maybe see that, but you really can’t get land on islands for less than tier any more, even on old-rate islands, and yet people rent land on them… because they avoid the startup costs, which island owners presumably get back over the period they own the sim (if they don’t, they’re not charging enough, or they’re in SL to play at being landlords and don’t mind taking a loss).
How much are Openspace sims renting for right now? $80? $100?
Unless they’re going for WAY more than seems reasonable to me now, I don’t see your scenario working. To rent 1/4 of an Openspace, my choice is paying $20-$25 a month, or finding three friends I can trust who also want to rent 1/4 of an Openspace and paying 4-5 months rent in fees, waiting a couple of weeks, and then saving maybe $5 a month in rent?
April 24th, 2008 at 8:08 PM
I am STILL trying to figure out what the 1675USD (now 1000USD) is exactly going for if i were to buy a PI. From my underdstanding i am not getting my own dedicated server and i CERTAINLY am not getting a stable platform. Even if you were to assume that EVERY SIM LL has was a education half priced one. Just look at the world map and think about just how much money they are making. On top of that all of the member fees and THEN all the people who purchase L from the L’s. *sighs* Oh and let us not forget that if someone pay for a PI at the old price of 1675, after a few months they find they cannot make teh tier and LL repos it and turns around and auctions it off at almost teh full price they original usr paid for it!
I was about as diehard a fan of SL as one could be. However, sadly i have spent more time off of SL then i have on it and i am slowly weening myself off and moving to EVE Online and other more stable and fun things. Oh and also going back to AOL Chatrooms and OMG DARE I SAY!!!!! Even RL!!!!!
When everyone and i mean EVERYONE in SL takes two or three days off and we all stand up and say we are not going ot take this. Perhaps then they will listen. Stop buying land, stop buying L and they will see that we can and will and are willing to move on.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:16 PM
LOL .. LOL .. this is a “business plan”? Prices up 50% one year .. down 42 % the next .. this is a joke not a business plan !
April 24th, 2008 at 8:16 PM
Oh FFS people … grow up … get a clue … quitcher bytchin and file or vote for a Jira … keep the blogs on topic and keep your computers updated … I dont have 1/2 the problems I read about and I’m no IT wiz girl and I’m not running a Cor2 Quad either … keep working the viewer Cyn and I’ll see you soon.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:20 PM
I guess it all boils down to this.. all your openspace are belong to us.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:23 PM
Nice to see Katt is here with us, feeding-in much-needed replies and feedback to the legitimate questions raised here by concerned parties.
Really gratifying to see all the questions about OpenSpace sims how to proceed with orders in progress / whether to place new orders / what is the true status of back-order clearance….
Yes…59 posts at the time of writing and not one single reply from the Resident Communications Manager …. or anyone else at LL for that matter.
Gotta love the new “openness” LL have adopted in their communications….
April 24th, 2008 at 8:42 PM
Well done for holding hands up and saying this has been a bit of a @#<* up but you have messed a lot of customers rounds and so hopefully you will learn from this that bad info is no better than no info.
Give us plans,give us facts but don’t make announcments that mess peoples intended plans when you ain’t sure its ready.could have easily said these are our intentions give no dates except sometime in q2.
The new land store system sounds great but as always with SL it is inovate then spend next 6 months trying to patch so it works.
Sidewinder should be incharge of all projects shows real testing ability and comes and talks to us to see what were having issues with.
April 24th, 2008 at 8:45 PM
Rather than inflict you guys with a tool that isn’t ready yet, we have decided to bring the old store back up ….holy crap did they say that?
April 24th, 2008 at 8:54 PM
Serious question - does an openspace sim go “just anywhere” or does it connect to one’s existing island?
In fact, is openspace island or is it mainland?
And assuming it’s island, what if my sim doesn’t have space around it?
I’m so confused. I’m going to go buy some cartoon shoes.
Love, Dita
April 24th, 2008 at 9:08 PM
Instead of inflicting any more insults about the weakmesses in this process how about a few constructive suggestions. There is some evidence that people are starting to listen.
I would suggest that since the old land store is up and new pricing in place, and since there is bound to be a glut of orders, why not use the bits from the backend that might be working to expedite delivery? At least you should be able to speed up the manual process somewhat.
Im over the damage done, no idea what will happen to rentals in the future what with all the land that will be pushed out onto the already overcrowded grid. Its likely that as current tenants leave and plots goe unleased I will consolidate the empties and abandon them, will lose some of the initial fees but i will cut my losses on paying additional tiers on unrented land.
Anyone with a set of 4 full prim islands for sale at the new pricing, less first months tier, give me a holler in-world. I have a contract to deliver on.
April 24th, 2008 at 9:55 PM
Old land store, new prices…
With server version 1.21 still going through its shaky rollout, Linden Lab have decided to put the old land-store back online. It still has all the issues it had before (delays, not working in MSIE, an inability to order void/openspace simulators and s…
April 24th, 2008 at 10:05 PM
Thank you LL! *hugs nearest Linden* Heh sorry hope I didn’t squish you there. My RP community of 800 residents was waiting for the new sim to be setup so thanks for getting the store up with the new pricing order is placed and in setup. *WOOT!*
April 24th, 2008 at 11:00 PM
another constructive suggestion (I’m feeling constructive this morning). How about assigning some bored linden-soul to create a queue management tool, webside, accessible from the “track your order” link, that lets us see just where in the queue our orders are sitting? we might even be able to see for ourselves, without tying up your support phone lines, what your delivery rate looks like over time and how close we are getting to delivery.
April 24th, 2008 at 11:34 PM
Well if any of you have concrete evidence of the new great replacements for second life let us know. I have been here over 3 years and the first time I heard this rumor was 3 years ago. I personally know some who are working on a new system and it has proved to be a daunting adventure. So in short do not place your hopes on a bail out game, do not think they will be out of beta anytime soon. Even with the operation problems the Lindens have a lot of development time under their belts, oh and I agree with Quatro what kind of a business plan is this maybe they know something )) doubtful
April 24th, 2008 at 11:47 PM
hoping here that the Openspace ordering has reverted to the old way too via support, but with the new pricing. Wonder what the price of the order that has been waiting now for almost 4 weeks will be.
April 25th, 2008 at 12:19 AM
Would be nice to get some indication of how long time the delays on orders placed now will be. At least approx.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:01 AM
I agree with 73 and 76 re we need some way of seeing where in the queue we are for new land and approx timelines to remove the constant hassling of the support line. I’ve been told 10 business days everytime I’ve enquired regarding an order placed on the 4th April. I understand that the new land store is supposed to fix that with an almost immediate delivery but until we get that, some visibility on wait time would be good. For #57 - as you say both are unknowns.
April 25th, 2008 at 1:46 AM
Joshe
I have 4 sims they were for a charity event less tier. I am exiting all land. Thanks
April 25th, 2008 at 2:22 AM
Excellent idea on giving constructive ideas, I have been doing that since 2005 yet not one implemented, perhaps I am just stupid :p
These are mine:
(1) Any sim owners who own at the 1600 USD price who purchased in the 14 weeks prior to change (and they based their “business plans” on the last 18 months of economic data so give them a break please) get 3 months free tier for those islands. 14 weeks I think is a fair period based on normal depreciation value on hardware. If people literally quote this on each relevant blog topic and lobby their chosen relevant Linden perhaps we might get somewhere.
(2) Lobby Linden Labs for change. I propose on 5th May 2008 at 5pm SLT we ALL log off and stay logged off for 5 hours. Let’s test our community power. If we seriously find issue with this platform, let’s not be a slave to it. Show our power as a 5 hour suddenly impact of resident number not related to downtime will hit their commercial stats. In that time we can see what the viable alternatives are or see some RL or use photoshop. I very much suspect that you will not be able to get this message out in world and indeed achieve it due to apathy and lack of really wanting the platform to change.
(4) LInden Labs changed their wording for those of you with keen eyesight. Read what they say about Residents now - created / owned/ imagined - that will give you some clues.
(5) Alternative Platforms - They are out there and I suspect by 2009 most of us will be voting with our feet.
(6) Let’s all shout now and hard for a Town Hall for residences to put forward 5 proposals for change that WE as the community want. Let’s organize ourselves and get those agreed. We can map out the commercial benefits of delivery and then Linden Labs can cost out the implementation and strategy costs. If they still do not listen or provide us a roadmap with milestones to make OUR changes….that will be our final clue on their route. I’ll highlight IBM and Enterprise and you’ll figure out my meaning.
In summary Linden Lab’s original vision was good. Their lack of business mangement, transparency and indeed strategy is lacking. The new CEO we’ll see, he certainly has the capacity for it but I cannot see him impacting the key issues. If he calls the Town Hall he is making the right first step, if they fail to do so - the writing is on the wall, and I will be out of SL after 3 years as a content creator.
April 25th, 2008 at 2:50 AM
Day after day I keep seeing people saying they are going to offload their islands and give up, but the number of islands for sale is very very low and most of those are at joke prices like 500,000L . If anyone has an island to clear at a sensible price then please contact me.
As a separate point, it would be nice to hear from LL as to how big their land store backlog is, and then how many they aim to process manually each day ?
April 25th, 2008 at 3:17 AM
[...] 25th, 2008] UPDATE In an annoucement made yesterday by LL, they indicated that since their new Land Store will be further delayed, they [...]
April 25th, 2008 at 3:35 AM
waves all mine are 700usd I am out.
April 25th, 2008 at 3:57 AM
I don’t know how the new land store is, but at least I hope the new map is really useable.
As for today, it is nearby impossible to find a given sim or island without already knowing its place:
-there is no coordinate system
-there is no search function
-navigation is very slow, so that it can’t repond properly to commands
-the yellow reserved lands are so prominent that they hide the other things
-etc.
So I hope that we shall soon have a new land store, free of such bugs, and really useable.
Thanks
April 25th, 2008 at 4:00 AM
I just was on th eland store, and I have found a few faults with it already. Let me list them out:
1) The land store map is not current with the inworld map. I know at my islands 931, 1083 and 930, 1083 on the land store, that there appears to be open areas to my north and south. Yet when I go online and use the inworld map, south of my islands there has been a longstanding community.
2) the nice yellow boxes prevent anyone from seeing if theyre placing an island in the place they want it. Why not get rid of the yellow boxes at least at the closer zoom levels, so owners could at least see where theyre placing the islands?
3) With no grid location system, it makes it almost impossible to go to a set grid area to see your existing plots.
While we all are happy something is happening, I don’t see how bringing back an old system is going to help when we were expecting something better.
Lets also remember that, with the difference in tier pricing between the mainland and the PI’s, anyone who does sub renting to help support islands is already at a disadvantage in the over saturated housing market. The only bright spots are thos ewho come in with the desire to do big builds and rent multiple plots.
I have been on SL for over 3 years myself, and remember when the tier pricing on PI’s was $195. Those times allowed rentors the opportunity to come out to an island, rent some plots, and not only were the views better, but the rental rates could be kept at a managable price.
Now, any of the islands who rent out space is at a disadvantage, simply because tier fees are so off, to break even, at a mimimum the rent on a PI has to be L$42,752 a month for just the $150 tier for the openspace sims. For the full PI’s, the Monthly L$ REQUIREMENT is L$84,200 just to break an even $295. Thats on top of the $1675 (now $1000) for the initial setup (which used to be a purchase price to “own” the sim).
Mainland pricing, just to be balanced, has a monthly requirement of L$55,600 per month to recoup the tier fees. There is also the “Setup fee” there, but it is (at least count) $750.
With a difference of L$28,600 per month between PI and Mainland teir fees, how can anyone make it work out?
Why not reset the Tier on the PI’s back to $195, and work on making the platform stable?
Why not put a time limit on the “Free” accounts? Most companies only offer a 30 day or 100 hour free trial before requiring a membership to be paid.
There are a lot of us who want to see LL become what it has the potential to be, but we keep feeling like we are being ignored or just plain trampeled over by the reckless and irresponcible policies LL is taking.
Please, wake up and start listening to the people who are making SL for you. If you keep treating us like dirt, when something better comes along (which always happens, esp in technology), your going to be faced with a massive exodus to that new program.
If you build up a strong customer base, and treat them like customers instead of just users, make policy that allows for an acutal balanced competitive housing market, and got a platform that works and left it on the grid whle you beta test the next update, instead of releasing the buggy codes all the time, I bet most of us would be happy to be here.
So yay, the old land store is back. but honestly, it is time someone really began to listen to the consumers and creators of this world your acting as host for.
April 25th, 2008 at 4:34 AM
For all those complaining and threatening to leave… do you really think there aren’t others ready to take your place?
My guess is that your leaving won’t impact SL as much as you think it might.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:22 AM
Hey, I can cross sim borders now without losing attachments - thanks Sidewinder and H4 team! Daggit!, no borders to cross, thanks new land store team
Seriously though, the delay in delivering voids is causing me much more frustration and harm as we were counting on having some of them live for some serious events in May.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:33 AM
Industry Standard Practice
The industry standard practice when announcing a new pricing structure is to draw a line, discount everyone who puchased after that line. Typically it is thirty days, since customers who have ordered in the last thirty days by credit card can just return things and reorder. It saves trouble and time.
I know that dozens of openspace sims were returned, including two we ordered and a third we canceled. Now LL will have to do that work over again, and people in world ahve to redo work.
Linden Lab needs to understand better management practice, one of the essential points of which is to not make work for yourselves that also annoys customers.
While it is good to be mature enough to admit that a new tool is not ready to ship, making other, ready to ship products dependent on it is not a good idea. You could have been collecting tier and fees during this time, this loss of revenue was not required, either for you, or for your resellers.
Namely us.
I’m glad LL has started calling set up fees set up fees. Now it is also time to start using some other words.
Your resellers.
Your partners.
That’s what the majority of people who buy sims are, resellers and partners.
April 25th, 2008 at 5:40 AM
To poster 85. I don’t think it’s that people are threatening - the outstanding mesage to Linden Labs in the past quarter continues to be “listen to your residents”. We all love SL in our difference guises, but for me (I am a 2004 account) the changes over the past 12 months are reckless and show an increasing apathy to residents.
And yes, the one off resident leaving will not impact them of course. However, the build up and move to new technology as it becomes available will.
And one by one it will matter. People have given valuable feedback and constructive ideas on how Linden Labs probably with no more than 10 hours resource time to listen and then set up a mechanism to consult on changes could increase (1) morale and (2) retain customer loyalty.
Complaining some are yes, however do not underestimate the voice of the customer. In time with a considered approach and those voices joining up it because more of a shout then finally like a huge alarm going off for the wake up call needed.
Complaints are good, it means we CARE it means we want it to improve and more over 4 years in for me it means we want to STAY.
I think the RL press (I am UK based) has run negative after negative commentary on Second LIfe including a tv expose on underage sex etc. I have not seen one positive comment nor development companies bringing in business.
The residents could change that with success stories - but most are too busy trying to off load land, gather their losses and figure why more stuff got stolen and LL’s inability to delete from the server (whey hey Napster here we come - shut down)….
April 25th, 2008 at 6:07 AM
all this doom and gloom about selling Openspace land to anyone whining reminds me of the *Banning gambling will kill SL* furore that erupted then……SL is still here for good or bad, Gamblings gone, I for 1 am holding ground waiting to see what LL propose on tier restructuring if at all.
Seems though that some full sim owners are happy to buy openspaces and sell them on to the very people who they dont want to buy openly! Hmmmm I wonder why?
It all makes good reading though, if anyone’s P’d off enough to want to donate an island, then I would happily take it off their hands.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:11 AM
“why not put a limit on free accounts…”
Because many resellers and partners are free accounts, and LL would lose a great deal of business, and number of subscribers, should they do this. Many outworld people who do a few appearances in world a year would not want to pay 72 USD just to be able to make an appearance in world.
A great deal of tier is rented by people to current resellers by people who do not want to pay for a premium account. Time limits on free accounts would slam many existing partners who rent to these people.
Partners who propose gutting the customer base of other partners are not doing themselves a service, it tells the other partners that we aren’t in this together as resellers of a sercvice ind dealing with the company whose product we resell, but instead that some resellers are tryin gto take money away from current partners and resllers for no benefit what so ever.
And there is no benefit whatsoever, at the present time, to charging people just for access to what is, essentially, a web veiwer. How long would the www last if people had to pay just to use a web browser. Not ISP fees, but just to log into a web site from anyplace.
The answer is not very long.
April 25th, 2008 at 6:52 AM
Take action as residents, join the Church of Ethernal Life and help fight against Lucifer’s Legion’s. Act one will be a battle to end the Terror On the Streets. Take control of this world as a group and put the evil ones in thier place. JOIN FORCES, JOIN THE CHURCH!
This is the one true path.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:14 AM
For all the continuing SL supporters out there…….do you really believe they can fix this game? If they could, they would have done it by now. The truth is, that the whole expandability is not possible with the existing architecture (both hardware and software). Adding more sims and more customers , with associated increases in bots etc. will only cause more problems. The new CEO is just PR. The whole idea is to get LL ready for an IPO …..they dont give a damn about customers at that point …. they will have their pockets filled. Keep waiting for it to be fixed, keep buying new land ….. you are being suckered……dont say you werent warned.
April 25th, 2008 at 8:19 AM
*blinks* Huh! @Maximus Bliss, What? you propose a christian society in SL only, are all other religions Lucifer’s minions? What in God’s name are you posting about? certainly nuthin to do with the blog post.
LOL
April 25th, 2008 at 8:21 AM
@ Cincia
Some of us could say the same thing about your “skirt” complaint comments…. “Oh FFS people … grow up … get a clue … quitcher bytchin and file or vote for a Jira …” …ROTFLMFAO
April 25th, 2008 at 8:31 AM
@41 Driftwood: I agree that there would be a land rush if Open Space sims were opened to just anyone. But that didn’t prevent a land rush anyway– it just transferred ownership to land barons. How?
The Open Space order system is so backlogged Lindens cannot keep up with it. But it’s not from new island owners purchasing Open Space sims… it’s from existing land barons buying up Open Space sims for the purpose of renting them out to others @ $100 to $120 a month.
So rather than decreasing the power of land barons, in one fell swoop LL gave them a gold mine. And people who would have enjoyed getting away from mainland and purchasing their own island at $75 a month, instead have to pay some land baron a profit to be able to do so.
It didn’t reduce the number of islands ordered. It just allowed people to profiteer from another LL knee-jerk decision.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:00 AM
I’m very happy your offering the new prices sadly I’ve cashed out all the account credit I had that I was going to use for 2 openspace sims. Your loss… I don’t like playing these games. I will order when the new land store is up =)
April 25th, 2008 at 9:22 AM
#88 You will be seeing more positive RL Press in the near future. There’s another side of SL many residents are not aware of. There are over 70 support groups here run by people devoted to making our world (SL & RL) a better place.
I am also a sim owner, and though I will take a huge loss if I were to sell my islands, our business plan so far (knocks on wood) is still paying the tier.
I realize SL is going through some growing pains and will wait and see what the outcome is before dumping everything my business partners and I have worked so hard for, down the virtual drain.
April 25th, 2008 at 9:49 AM
@17 (Fatz Scheflo) “Obviously I (and many, many, many other established content creators here) are disappointed.”
THATS A FACT!
@27 (Ree Indigo) “That being said, I’m not against you. I think Linden is shafting content providers at every turn. This, however, is not the topic to gripe about that on, so I won’t. This is the topic to applaud the Lindens for ANOTHER EPIC FAILURE!”
You are right about content providers and creators being shafted. Unfortunately, there is NEVER a correct topic to gripe about those issues, as LL doesn’t see them as issues!
I am seriously beginning to wonder if we all have it wrong. Wrong in thinking that LL does care about providing a good platform for business. Maybe they are now happy that these bigger businesses have helped the economy grow large enough, and are rather trying now to focus on the ‘fun’ aspect for the masses - thus allowing free accounts to do as they wish. Possibly they see that as a bigger opportunity to chase down - ie. go for the numbers multiplied by small trading revenues, rather than the medium and large but few.
I say : if free accounts must continue, limit them in function at least. This is common practice in most