Server Code Update Tue/Wed/Thu This Week
Wednesday, March 19th, 2008 at 8:30 PM by: Joshua Linden[Update 2007-03-19@21:20] Right… good thing we only did 497 regions. We need to revert those regions back to 1.19.1.81992. We apologize for the inconvenience, but the affected regions will need to be restarted a second time to compelte the revert. It will be done in ca. 45 minutes.
[Update 2007-03-19@21:15] The deploy to 497 regions is done. The new version is 1.19.2.82788. You can find out which server version the region you are in is running by Looking at “About Second Life” from the “Help” menu.
[Update 2007-03-19@19:50] The blog post said that the Havok4 beta regions would be updated separately… and that separate update is now complete. The first roll of ~500 regions on the main release will begin in the next hour.
[Update 2007-03-19@12:45pm] Central system updates are complete. We took things slowly and also repaired some login servers that were misbehaving last night and had to be taken out of rotation. Anyone watching the online resident counts (”concurrency”) will see 3 brief dips between about 12:10 and 12:45 when the services that track online status were restarted. The numbers bounce back almost immediately as the system recovers, as designed.
We’ll be updating the server code on the hosts that make up the Second Life service this week to server code version 1.19.2 (current version is 1.19.1). As has been the case for quite some time now, this will be done via a rolling restart spread over several days, and there will be no extended downtime or new viewer required.
The list of changes is fairly small, and there should be no noticeable effect in-world:
- Support for PRIM_GLOW in llSetPrimitiveParams - this will require a forthcoming viewer update to author and compile scripts that use this, however
- Additional internal web service infrastructure work to remove dependencies on central databases (initially disabled, we’ll then slowly start flipping services on)
- Additional internal logging and diagnostics to track down the cause of various failures
- Fix for a rare “I just saw someone else’s IM!?!?!” bug
Our tentative schedule is as follows:
- Update affected central systems Tuesday morning [Update 2007-03-18@5:45pm] - this got started late while we tracked down a bug in the new code. This is halfway through, and will resume on Wednesday morning
- Update 3 racks (approximately 500 regions) on
Tuesday eveningWednesday evening Update 10 racks (approximately 1500 regions) onWednesday evening Thursday morning
Restart remaining 15000 regions on Thursday eveningFurther updates are on hold until we resolve the problem discovered in rolling to the first 497 regions.
This will not affect the approximately 500 regions running in the Havok4 Beta program; they will be updated separately.
Region restarts will occur in machine order. Each region will be given a 5 minute warning, then restarted.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:20 PM
Glad to hear of the updates.
Forgive me this observation… adding the above figures, that makes a current total of what, 17,000 regions? All of them paying between $195 and $350 a month? (Let’s just set the figure at $295).
So total MINIMAL income to LL is…. around $FIVE MILLION a month??!!!
And for this, we have bugs (such as group chat) that go on for months and months without being fixed. For five big ones a month, I’d hire 5 or 6 bug teams and give ‘em a moratorium of 72 hours on each bug. And we should be seeing lag and teleport problems and crashes all but completely vanish.
Seriously, when you’re raking in that kind of cash, your customers should expect some major service.
When you charge the price of a new car for a sim, I think we should be able to expect new car performance. Just sayin’.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Oh jeez…
Is there some sacrifice I can do with black candles to help this one iron out more bugs than it introduces?
I can’t keep up with the number of server and client upgrades being pushed out. Let alone file a decent bug report that viewer X has problems in server code Y. Because X & Y will both be updated in a week or so, making the JIRA entry obsolete…
/me chants the “Stability” mantra and hopes it allows periods of settlement where useful bug collection can happen.
March 17th, 2008 at 4:34 PM
Yay! Scriptable Glow!
March 17th, 2008 at 4:46 PM
Currently running just fine on1.18.5 yet I see the current viewer is 1.19.! I must have been asleep at the wheel because my log-in screen says try the optional 1.19.05. ( I did but thank god Fluff had posted how to get back to 1.18.5), because I missed my friends. anyway, what’s the consensus here ?
March 17th, 2008 at 4:55 PM
Fix for a rare “I just saw someone else’s IM!?!?!” bug ? Oh really…….. ok
looks like soon enough we ae getting closer to a more stable client. That was until lastnight mytime. Crashing? Now has anyone been addressing the memory leak that 1.19.1 has been having resently? Oh yes and inventory that has been taking 30 mins to load? Or having inventory errors that say “PLEASE TRY AGAIN”…….. Doesnt look like it……….Please address these.
Usagi
March 17th, 2008 at 5:01 PM
In an earlier blog (Support Navigation Changes… Going Live Now!) posted by Maurice Linden it was stated “As a general rule new server code is not introduced on Friday”. Presumable this is so that we can have a better chance of a trouble-free weekend.
But here you are saying that the bulk of your server code updates will be carried out on Thursday.
You may not have noticed this but we have a long holiday weekend coming up with Friday and Monday being public holidays in many countries (USA, UK, Australia, most of Europe and S. America, etc).
So will any ‘teething problems’ associated with Thursdays work plague us all until Tuesday?
March 17th, 2008 at 5:10 PM
Are there any plans in place for improving the accessibility of the predicted restart times for specific sims?
The current ‘5 minute warning’ coming “sometime” within a 3 day period is completely unacceptable for a serious business platform. Additionally, during restarts, a fairly high percentage of servers seem to be unable to return to operation automatically and have to be manually restarted. The downtime for these uncooperative servers is highly variable and seemingly can go on for hours before being detected by Linden Labs and being corrected.
If there are no upcoming fixes for this showstopper condition are there any plans of offering private regions with guaranteed uptime to a contracted percentage? It would seem that a market may exist for services above the current highly unsatisfactory level of customer service.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:12 PM
Hmmmm!! Why don’t we stop worrying about all these updates, making things “new and improved” and start fixing all the bugs, like people losing L’s when purchasing, losing no copy inventory when rezzing, getting stuck in the middle of TP’s (and when the TP does work having your hair, shoes, jewelry, ect. up your bootys). AND LAG!! Fixing all the current bugs will help to improve Second Life and make the customers (especially the ones with premium accts and the ones that buy lindens) a whole lot happier. When I first came into SL over a year ago it was not nearly this bad. Just sayin’!!
Oh and Blinders Off!! You have a very good point!! I don’t think I coulda said that any better!!
March 17th, 2008 at 5:22 PM
Wow, first the new web features, now scriptable glow! I’m stoked about adding that to some of my projects, but I’d also like to see some viewer stability improvements too. 1.19.1.1 RC is still too crash-happy and I’m forced to use Dazzle(which I do like, but I miss the web stuff).
March 17th, 2008 at 5:23 PM
Hey we are having in world issues when buying things or playing games , It times out but it takes our lindens
, This isn’t fair to us members who buy in Lindens with real life USA $ , Now a happy person right now …
March 17th, 2008 at 5:24 PM
Erm.
Wouldnt it be better to roll out new server code on Mondays so if something happens, which it will, that you can use the rest of the week to correct it seeing that most people marathon SL on weekends?
Or is this your way of telling us to go out and get drunk on weekends?
March 17th, 2008 at 5:24 PM
What I don`t understand is why the memory leak is so great” yet again”. When inventory does finally load the UI crashes. Nobody likes crashing. Thisis not simple issues they are major ones. Fix for a rare “I just saw someone else’s IM!?!?!” bug ? this one if it was real could have waited. How can this be if the group im system is not even working. How could personal IM even show this occurance……
March 17th, 2008 at 5:27 PM
Keep up the good work!
March 17th, 2008 at 5:30 PM
I’m having Data Server Errors when trying to buy things.
[17:23] The system is currently unable to process your request. The request timed out.
It has taken $L with no delivery in return.
( One Seller was trying to refund my $L and had a time out. )
Yup, its busted (>_<
Well keep trying!
,,,=^_^=,,,
March 17th, 2008 at 5:32 PM
@ #5 U M the perpose for them doing increasing sized batches is to catch the bugs in the wild with the small batches before going grid wide. This means if things not go well with the first 500 they can fix is and only have the first 500 effected.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:38 PM
@blinders off -
well once again we have a cinnabon employee from the food court in the mall ranting about how software is developed. blinders, your bloviating would hold more water if you added the other costs running a company as seen by the people that run the company, not just an office supply stealing employee. Such as the horrific costs for the colocation for starters. then you have the obvious costs of facilities, utilities, employees and their insurance, and other infrastructure items that it takes to run a company. Next, you cant just hire a programmer and let them loose on a large system such as SL. It most likely takes a well seasoned programmer several months to become familiar with the code and the systems used to build the resultant applications and services. If you just go in ham fisted willy nilly chaning things, then there is a good chance you are going to break something down stream of your code and make things alot worse. I think they are doing a pretty good job. Your rant is about like the programmers at LL coming down to the mall and telling you that you are charging too much for cinnabons because you only use 40 cents worth of flour in a bun and you could make cinnabons more rapidly if you turned up the heat in the oil to 5000 degrees.
keep up the good work LL
March 17th, 2008 at 5:39 PM
GIMME BACK MY CHATLINE!!!!!
And fix these annoying bugs before you EVER dare to throw anything “new” and shiny on me.
NO weekend without a major blackout these days, my oh my. Not to mention the friends list not loading in 1.19, account not loading…frustrating.
March 17th, 2008 at 5:41 PM
But for over 3 days? I thought server update was bad… last resently as I said inventory issues have been running a muck as they say. Crashing people out. I just hope read the crash reports ( thats if they even get them).
March 17th, 2008 at 6:08 PM
i love new lindens projects, go ahead!!,
March 17th, 2008 at 6:14 PM
@ 16 John Adams. John, IMO if you weren’t so busy admiring yourself in the mirror, it might occur to you that there are others out here who are professionals in the computer field who know exactly what we’re talking about. I respect your right to your opinion. So I think a little more respect is due from you regarding the opinions of others and keep the snide “food court” flames to yourself. I’d wager that head to head, and experience years to experience years, I could look you right in the eye and never blink.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:16 PM
blog postings are not working on maurices blog about web site i have tryed 4 times to post a question and it does not show up
can someone please fix teh website everytime i click on a damn link it goes to teh SECOND LIFE IS OFFLINE PAGE OR SECONDLIFE IS OPEN PAGE when i wanna look at my transactiosn page and i click that links i do NOT wanna get a page that says second life is open please have your webcoders fix these flaws that have been going on for ages
when u click a link it should take you to the page you want not some weird page telling me sl status
March 17th, 2008 at 6:27 PM
The assest servers are messed up again adn comments are of on the blog post ggrr
March 17th, 2008 at 6:27 PM
@Blinders - you still didnt come up with any believable calculations showing costs for running an endeavor like LL. All you did was try to smote me down. That does not help your argument that you are in the computer “field”. So, we are going to have to so assume you are one of the aging experienced people in the computer “field” that doesnt really help the bottom line, you sort of just hide in the noise and are yet another liability. Now please get busy and provide us with the budget for running a company the size of LL.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:27 PM
I find it incredibly ironic how many people here complain about stability issues in updates which are specifically designed to help improve efficiency:
# Additional internal web service infrastructure work to remove dependencies on central databases (initially disabled, we’ll then slowly start flipping services on)
# Additional internal logging and diagnostics to track down the cause of various failures
Many of the problems that SL has been having (lost inventory, anyone?) are likely to have been caused by overloads in central databases which need to be broken up into smaller, less heavily loaded ones. This isn’t the sort of thing that can be done instantly, and requires great care to avoid introducing showstopper bugs worse than the current situation. It makes no sense to complain about no progress in an update notification /specifically aimed at addressing the problems at hand/, although perhaps LL could’ve tossed in a note in there for those not following things in such detail…
March 17th, 2008 at 6:30 PM
We complain here as comments are closed on performance blogs….currently cant buy land as requests time out/go stale…so what in world issues are resolved?
March 17th, 2008 at 6:33 PM
“and there should be no noticeable effect in-world”
Please stop saying this. Every time a Linden tells us that, the update goes horribly, horribly wrong. The next one of you that uses this phrase for an update that needs to be reversed should be required to slam their fingers in their car door while the keys are locked inside.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:41 PM
laughs……….its like people rumoring LL is going public? Well thats not possible because they don`t tell the truth half or the time anyways. Takes more then just saying “HEY LETS GO PUBLIC STOCK OFFERING” Its not possible. The FCC wouldnt allow it.
March 17th, 2008 at 6:51 PM
Sounds awesome to me
I have a hunch this update is going to improve region crossings
March 17th, 2008 at 7:01 PM
This is absolutely ridiculous. You’re making SO much money a month, and yet you still can’t fix the freakin’ bugs? JUST FIX THEM! I’ve spend x number of hours of this past month building and building and building, and it’s a VERY slow process, because I keep CRASHING!
Increase useability by those who DON’T have perfect computers, kill the lag, kill all the problems with IMs, teleports, things rezzing up our asses, and EVERYTHING ELSE that you could have fixed MONTHS AGO, and just get it over with!
I honestly don’t know who you have running things back there but they aint doin’ a grand ol’ job! You’re not just a LITTLE behind schedule, or just A BIT, you’re WEEKS behind schedule!
March 17th, 2008 at 7:08 PM
now add DNS login problems…..
March 17th, 2008 at 7:12 PM
Oh… look! The Lindens have now turned off scripting permissions in some area sandboxes. Gee, I wonder what they are hiding… this time? More crashes?? All I see created in there now are 59 rezzed-copies of AX4 Attack-choppers. That stuff gets a bit stale after a while, ya know?
See ya next week!
The Tiny One.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:16 PM
Already there. DNS, DNS, DNS.
I guess the luck of the Irish really isn’t with me.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:23 PM
Could we get the DNS range of the full machines - and the DNS range, perhaps, of the 500 and 1500 roll-outs.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:24 PM
I am amazed that LL has all the sims on just about a dozen racks!
The outline in the post above mentions 13 racks in total. o.O
March 17th, 2008 at 7:25 PM
bettin John Adams has been in game less than a year lol not to “smote you down” there are real problems with rolling out anything on weekends let alone a holiday weekend. doesn’t take a puter geek or a rocket scientist. my friends and i will get by…i work them =) and to them is a joke, yeah well is the weekend what ya expect?
we expect crappy rez, missing inventory and teleports that crash
heck anymore that’s a good day
fix it LL
March 17th, 2008 at 7:32 PM
@ John Adams: John, I’m not about to get in some self-centerd troll war with you here on this blog. If I did go to all the time and trouble to provide a detailed list of running such an endeavor, you’d just come up with some way to ignore it or argue with it or whatever. You’ve left two posts here and in both, you weren’t satisfied to present your opinion… you had to make it personal. I got no respect for ya, and I’m not going to spend any more time on you. I’ve dealt with people like you in the past. It’s a wasted of time. You don’t discuss or listen. You look down your nose at others. That’s all you’re about, and I’m not going to spend any effort messing with someone who has no more social skill than that. LOL
March 17th, 2008 at 7:33 PM
Case in point the transactions failures today that was supposedly fixed once already today. I sure hope the new CEO will bring some trustworthiness with him/her along with forcing the lindens with accountability to fix things right the first time.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:36 PM
@ 34, the 13 racks is for the first 2000 regions. The remaining 15,000 regions are not in that figure.
@ Everyone else, chill, they are starting the update Tuesday, that leave two full days of testing before they push out the rest on Thursday.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:36 PM
@ 34 ~ Perhaps they are big racks =)
I assume the big errors we see of late are due to the big changes to server @ client software(possibly hardware). These are to be expected, however if the issues (asset mostly.. funny that) roll on for more than a week or 3, I foresee many randoms getting more than annoyed.
I for one know how long & hard the diff LL teams work, I only wish them luck in untangling the new mess, it’s not something I’d like to be tasked with.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:37 PM
It’s 13 racks for the first 2000 region, the remaining 15,000+ will take up another 104 server racks (at 13 racks per 2000 regions)
March 17th, 2008 at 7:38 PM
* Grid instability and poor performance
* Teleports fail quite regularly, especially under heavy load
* Sim performance varies wildly (NOT due to client content either)
* Low FPS
* Serious texture latency
* World maps are very slow loading
* Crashes and viewer hangs and freezes
* Ongoing friends list issues
* Group chat totally borked
* Group Notices not getting to all members of a group
* Random animations starting out of nowhere (and no, not an attack)
* Sailing off into void space after crossing a sim line
* Did we mention crashes? Why yes, yes we did.
* Major bugs not being corrected month after month, year after year (prime example: llTargetOmega)
* LL spending time on items no customers really want or care about.
* LL totally ignoring customer voting results and @#$# well doing what they want anyway (prime example: voice… which was majorly voted AGAINST by LL customers).
* Absurdist pricing on sims and land (namely: $295 and $350 a month for a piece of virtual land is ridiculous. The only thing it does is stuff LL’s pockets with $$$ and keeps most people for being able to afford a sim).
* Total failure of LL to prevent minors from entering the grid, resulting in continual hassles with immature children (not that some of the “adults” are any more mature… it just adds to the problem and drama).
… and the list goes on and on and on.
Why list these things? We’re not just griping. We’re listing these things to point out issues that Second Life customers deal with every single day… issues that Linden Lab continues to ignore (or put on the back burner, or “it bothers us too” into the obscurity pile) year after year.
And then people wonder why there are constant gripes on the blog.
That would be why.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:40 PM
@ 24. BD, if the problems with SL had been recent, or a temporary thing, or if it was just one in a list of problems that LL regularly and consistently fixed, I don’ think anyone would have a problem with that. If LL charged reasonable fees for sims rather than some of the highest fees in the business… people might not complain.
But since the bugs and problems and lack of proper fixes have been going on for years, and every new toy they come out seems to bring a plethora of new bugs and problems to add to the unfixed ones… people get frustrated. Since LL has no feedback page or adequate user support system to speak of (unless you pay them $295 a month for an island), people become even more frustrated.
As a good example, the group chat bug went unfixed, unattended and unresolved for almost a year, and just now LL announces they’re working on it and will be testing a fix on limited sims. That’s not a minor issue… and it took them flippin’ ages to even take a glance at it, despite numerous JIRA posts regarding the problem.
So… that is why people complain and that’s why they don’t cut Linden Lab any slack. At the prices LL is charging… time for them to put out a little more professional product. I mean, I paid $29.95 for a very complex online game that never crashes, never lags, and I’m totally satisfied with it. The performance I’ve seen on SL is inexcusable considering the fees they charge. If they’re going to charge Porche prices, we expect Porch performance. It’s just that simple. I’d be the first to cut them some slack if it was warranted. But when we see bugs go unadressed year after year after year… it gets old.
That’s why people complain.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:42 PM
I’ve been in world since febuary of 06. SL gets better and worse in fits and starts. It does no good to bitch about it, things have slowly gotten better for a while, then it gets bad again. I left for a few months recently and really the only problem I am having coming back is from lag. Current release is pretty stable on my machines. I am not a programmer, but I have friends who are and they say that LL even keeping sl in one piece is a miracle at times. One thing that would help imo is restricting registrations to a certain amount a week or per month. Well thats all I have to say besides, thanks LL for giving us something like SL to “live” in. Keep it up.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:45 PM
First let me say that I’m amazed that something this complex can run as well as it does.
BUT, let me also say that I agree with those who have said fix the bugs that are already (still) in the system before doing more Gee-whiz upgrades that only professionals with huge, screaming fast computers will notice. I’d love to be able to teleport somewhere and know that I’m not going to find half of what I’m wearing in my behind.
Or end up looking like ruth. Or both. One wonders why her ghost still haunts us after all these years.
Before adding more chrome, mag wheels, or painting flames on the sides, lets get the engine running on all cylinders, not cripping along on 5 and a flat tire.
March 17th, 2008 at 7:53 PM
@John Adams ,
Blinders off is right, Im a Network engineer and work with Software devlopers, Ill give you that a good software developer as an employee could run you 80 - 100K a year and say you have a team of 10.. I would say keeping a bay of which can hold 30 cab is one room. with good backup power & probably the most costly would be your WAN links. And additional staffing 2 Million a month which office rental included. By safe estamates give 3 million dollar profit. amonth. So fudge how you want they are making a very good profit. Also when clients which Im one of pay for a service which i do. You do expect a stable platform.. Also SL may want to put out an update as to what kind of hardware that will run best and reduce lag on our personnal pc’s I have built mine up and dont see lag but i do crash alot with new Viewer. So John , users have invested in this program if you think not , then evryone leave and see how long SL lasts without paying customers…
March 17th, 2008 at 7:56 PM
There are serious memory leaks in 1.19.0.5
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-2997
March 17th, 2008 at 8:03 PM
there’s been jiras about the memory leaks for months and they are either closed claiming its fixed or simply ignored.
But hey, look at all the pretty colors they’re putting out like Dazzle, that will distract us ooooing and ahhing as we continue to crash and re-connect.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:12 PM
Do you have a list of additional bug fixes included in this update? Or it that it?
Does that include SVC-1711 which I hear is internally fixed and was potentially due for the next server release, as per my earlier concierge chat today indicated?
March 17th, 2008 at 8:16 PM
When you charge the price of a new car for a sim, I think we should be able to expect new car performance. Just sayin’
/me wants to car shop where Blinders does.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:23 PM
There is no pardon for what is happening these last few weeks. memory leaks? STILL? NONONO….They keep fixing this and it keep coming back. Look at 41 remarks…………If that doesnt sum up the issues regaurding Sl I don`t know what does. If we just get some honest replies ( Sidewinder Linden is good at this). Then MAYBE peopek wouldnt be so upset. “racks ” are only as good as he people the mantain them. Chill? What you think people been doing the last few months? Playing withthemselves? Please………… Lets get real here and stop lieing shall we? After last night and crashing due to a major memory leak issue Please spare me the rah rah BS…….There are so many problems occuring its even less then funny hten it was months ago. Drepress is the word now. what worse is people supporting the isae we are closer to problem solving issues then before. Talk to any major island(s) own love and ou hear alot different story then postive…………
March 17th, 2008 at 8:25 PM
Hah several more memory full crashes and I rummaged round and went back to sweet old 18.5.3 viewer, Ahhh like a good old friend, maybe not so pretty but everything where it should be and STABLE as the latest screwed up code allows.
Got the Nicolaus patch too while I was on and will install that 2morrow.
So LL you can poke 1.19 rev whatever up your bum till you sort the pile of poo it is properly and not try and force the cr@p upon us again please. with 18.5.3 at last I can build again with no shifting prims, textures and things actually staying where you put them.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:26 PM
@34 Ina: that’s 13 racks for about 2000 regions.
There’s another 15000 regions after those 13 racks, so maybe 120 racks in all?
March 17th, 2008 at 8:27 PM
I have to agree with Blinders the current charge for an Island is $300 per month while you are getting a class 5 sim you have no guarentee of performance for that upkeep money,only recourse you would have is if service was unavailable for over 24 hours.
We do have to accept that the world advances and bugs and issues will always be there but it does seem in past 24 months we are paying a premuim to test a beta for Linden Labs.
Wouldn’t be so bad if they provided any decent protection for items you design or any sort of policing any more but we are paying more for a degraded service and anyone pre 2007 certainly 2006 would agree.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:32 PM
The fact is these problems have been going on for well over a year and a half now, and the bugs we are seeing are bugs we have been seeing for most of that time, and during that time LL has done very little to fix these issues or seriously address them, and instead have drastically lessened support, let in hordes of free players to further stress the system, and introduce more and mor new and unwanted innovations that are not asked for and seldom do more than create more problem for the player base. It is because of this that player are skeptical of LLs promises and have little faith in their ability to do anything more than line their own pockets with mone we pay them.
When LL begins to fix the problems they have created and get some control over the SL program, they will see player satisfaction begin to improve, but until then all the newbie cheering sections in the world will not change the fact that they are doing a terrible job of managing this situation, and should had they any professional pride in their work regularily apologize to us for the general mess they made of things and stop promising things they obviously cannot produce.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:33 PM
Isn’t it time we just accepted that the metaverse is as buggy as RL?
I mean chaos is a fact.
Hurricane Katrina, the big tsunami, San Andreas fault…
The fact that my hair is falling out…
I blame the Lindens. When are the Lindens going to fix my hair and my gammy knee??? XD
March 17th, 2008 at 8:46 PM
Of course SL will always have bugs that is not an issue,its when people are having to spend more time logging in or crashing than playing it is not acceptable if you are above reccomended specs.
Theres a flip side all pc’s are different.software/hardware conflict will always exsist,I do expect up to 60% of issues are actually PC or NET issues the fact remains that a lot of major issues are server side and not client.
I must say though lindens have done a lot of great work finally over inventory issues,i know they still occur but it is much improved.
March 17th, 2008 at 8:47 PM
So what makes a good debugging team great?
Is it showing up for work doing your job of tracking down and ridding errors, bugs, ect. collecting your paycheck, then being laid off because there are no more bugs, the team isnt needed?
Or is it ensuring the bugs remain “pesty and elusive” allowing you to stay employed, keeping the BMW from being repo’d and the kids fed?
I dont post on these pointless blogs, errors will always remain, they desire to stay employed, as “employed” is our measure of personal success, there is a level of flexibilty & tolerence in the mindset an “Ah good enough” type of quality control, a balance between completing the task of elliminating the bugs (unemployed) and acceptable performance/quality (employed).
We as end users of course would like the highest level of quality & performance, well that just will not happen since them beemer payments keep comming, the wife keeps shopping, country club fees are due, and the kids need larger allowances to keep them outta the way.
I for one will keep inworld knowing this, and will go back to my reading and laughing at the illogical griping by those with no sympathy for the rich and thier need to maintain “quality of life”
Toodles for now, i am going to see if i can push some stale transactions through an asset server that may be back from lunch break.
Sugar
March 17th, 2008 at 8:50 PM
i aprove all new changes in second life, how many people here complain about stability issues in updates, I love the new changes and inmovations, bugs? all games have bugs!,
March 17th, 2008 at 9:29 PM
Well, beside the noticeable defects and effects and the no-noticeable effects and defects, beside all the well known experiences between lag and inventory loss and crash, there are some good news about stability, speed and quality performance: the customer side works stable and fast. Our money comes solid in time and with lightspeed and with perfect performance on LLs bank-accounts, without any lag, without any bugs, without any downtime or crash. Just to show the positive side of the business. Customer side works still stable and professional. Good, huh?!
March 17th, 2008 at 10:28 PM
I get the impression that this server code update is primarily to fix or improve the grid’s performance and stability. It seems to be implemented in a thoughtful and careful manner, unlike some earlier “upgrades.”
It would be nice if some of that were conveyed in the opening text, because. if so, then some of the complaining about fixing the server side grid problems are being well addressed.
I cannot figure out why some of the viewer issues are not being addressed by some team or other. It seems to me that jazzing some of the colors of the interface is busy work when there are memory leaks and unasked for clutter and junk taking up screen space.
Linden Labs has lacked adult leadership for a long time, it’s good to see that there will be a change at the top soon. Hopefully it will be someone that can direct and energize the whole company in place of the pockets of performance trying to make up for the unbelievable lack of an overall vision without a plan or supervision.
I commend Joshua and Sidewinder and some others for trying to bring on the stability and performance SL so dearly needs, even if, at times, it seems to be not coming about.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:37 PM
@60 yep they are but those fixes go through the Release Candidate process.
I really do feel the latest RC is one of the most stable clients we have had for awhile. I use it on both a laptop and desktop and have had less problems of crashes and other issues listed on @41’s list. It has also given me back my friends list with is a bonus.
Keep up the good work LL.
March 17th, 2008 at 10:44 PM
Wyald, thats a very good point. Sidewinder ( joshua well….at times ) seems to be the only one these days that is doing any good.
As for Linden Labs has lacked adult leadership, that been one of the biggest problems during these last 1 1/2 years. Why is it that instead o getting quility service people we landup with well………You know what I mean.
Example the “Second Life First Look Dazzle” the crashreports dont even get sent back to LL” you call this a smart move? Please anyone that been in this game knows that need “ADULTS” not kids playing with coloring sets. Oh it was a nice pretty thing. But please skin only diff is no pardon for this type of crapy and useless waste of LL monies.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:05 PM
Yes friends list barely working. group chats not working and major lag. Tthis is what I am getting on my end. I hope this fixes it.
good luck with it.
*” Total failure of LL to prevent minors from entering the grid, resulting in continual hassles with immature children (not that some of the “adults” are any more mature… it just adds to the problem and drama). ”
I hear that. Lets get IDV going so we can get these kids off the adult grid and back onto the teen grid where they belong.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:06 PM
Lots of good comments above and lots of ‘em insightful on both sides of the issues. Wanted to reply to four or five…
@ 41 Rascal… right on the button.
@43 James. Yeah, if you’ve been here since Feb of ‘06, SL would seem to have its ups and downs but some improvements. Granted that. But if you’d been here late 2004 and early 2005, you would have seen private sims on totally dedicated servers that ran like greased lightning while fully populated. You would have seen a lot fewer crashes, group chat that worked just fine every time, and people not having to have $300 graphics cards and quad-core systems just to walk around SL at a decent rate. That ended mid 2005 when they started stacking servers, and just got worse thereafter. I will admit there are some tools on SL now that are very nice, and overall the interface has improved some (I’m not at all crazy about the new graphics settings interface or Dazzle, but…). Generally though, if you were to compare February 2008 performance with Feburary 2005 performance in general… 2008 would be obviously much, much poorer overall performance, especially in the private island area (mainland always dragged, but private islands used to be great). Of course back then there were only 500 or so sims and only about 35,000 users. Strikes me that Linden Lab is simply overloading their system– majorly. Not meaning to sound like a nay-sayer. I’m just telling it like it is. Such can be verified by older members who used to own private islands during the 2004/2005 year. One day someone flipped a switch, and the warp drives went offline. It was all over the forums.
Also back in 2005, you would have seen sims at $195 instead of $295 and $350 with a purchase price of $900 instead of $1650. So Linden Lab increasing prices by such vast amounts while performance dropped like a rock is what has a lot of the older users screaming. IMO, it’s a betrayal of customer trust in pursuit of corporate profit and courting big business (mainly by flooding the system with new users at the expense of the existing system). On that note, one other thing you’d have seen: very few minors causing problems on the system, because back then LL required credit card or PayPal verification. That ended too and in came the rug rats.
@44 Iosef. Yup, well said. Sometimes I am also surprised SL runs at all. But my biggest gripe with LL isn’t how SL runs… it’s their response to how it runs. When fixing group chat sits on the back burners for months and months, and in the meantime they’re concentrating on new eye candy like Dazzle… I have to think the company’s priorities are way messed up. People have been screaming this at LL for over 2 years: FOUNDATION FIRST, TOYS LATER.
@45 Steady: Thanks for verifying that. I didn’t even feel like messing with JS. Seen too many like him in the past and had no desire to deal with such nonsense. I get tired of dealing with folks who believe a little bit of computer knowledge qualifies them to analyze entire business structures, and I get really tired of people who think their opinion is so absolute that anyone who disagrees with them is beneath their contempt. I respect people who respect others. So thanks for laying it out for him. I had no desire. ;D
@46 Rascal: Yup. Major memory leaks. If anyone wants to test it, just call up the Windows Task Manager box and watch Secondlife.exe memory usage climb with each minute you’re on the system. I’ve been sitting here writing this blog, standing in one place on SL, and my memory usage has climbed from about 350 megs to over 950. Yeah, I’d say that is a MAJOR memory leak. And why LL isn’t pouring majority resources into finding that leak is beyond me. I guarantee any other responsible computer company faced with a memory leak like that, would have the cause of it traced down in (likely) 3 days, 2 weeks tops.
@47 Phil: Yup. Plain and simple.
@49 Reg: LOL. Actually, you can find a new car at SL prices about anywhere. Think about it: New islands cost $1,650 up front. That is down payment for just about anything. Monthly “lease” is $295. You can get a pretty nice car for $295 a month. Fact: First year cost of owning an island on Second Life is a whopping US$4,895. Yearly cost thereafter is $3,540. So go out shopping. Pick your lot. Salesmen everywhere will love to have your business. : )
@50 U M: “Chill? What do you think we’ve been doing for months”. Yup yup yup yup. Exactly. Some people have been trying to chill for years, while SL just operates worse and worse…
@53 Concerned & 54 HRM: Not gonna quote ya. Just gonna say that anyone who doubts what’s being said here, read messages 53 & 54. They’re right on the nose. For doubters, we’re not the only ones saying these things. Check out the blogs people. There are a LOT of (not just dissatisfied) but ANGRY customers here. There is a reason for that.
@57 Sugar: LOL. Thanks for the chuckle.
@58 Ivan. And do all games charge you $295 a month? Frankly, I play games and I can say unequivocally that Second Life is THE buggiest system I have ever seen in some (mumblety mumble) decades of professional computer and business work. All games have bugs? Yes. But I think some have far fewer than Second Life. Show me a game that crashes 6 times a day, lags to a standstill regularly, and loses player inventory, and I’ll show you a game company out of business.
Like everyone else, I’m very pleased when LL does something right. I pat them on the back when they do. I am almost ecstatic about the upcoming megaprim fix in Havok 4. Tested it and it’s just wunnerful (wish it had been fixed long before now). So yeah, I love patting LL on the back. Only problem is, opportunity to do so is few and far between. Bottom line: LL really needs to stop playing around on our money, and get to work. Sorry, that’s just the way I see it (and others too, apparently).
When you’re raking in the big bucks, you’re expected to do the job. When ya charge for a Cadillac, deliver a Cadillac.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:15 PM
Jeez, another blog post wasted. Seriously, this is getting annoying when every blog post ends up being more of the usual rants. For those of you who did well constructed rants, thankyou for the grammar and spelling, but unless it’s a rant that these fixes should have come sooner, in which case you are being just plain ungrateful to the hard work, do not post here…
Not unless it’s a real on topic question or concern. I’m trying to learn more about the new scripting features popping in and instead of SL power users giving open talk, we have people displaying poor tastes in protest locations.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:18 PM
/me begins prepping for scripted glow
AT LAST!!!!!
THANKS!
March 17th, 2008 at 11:20 PM
Oh a correction to my last post: SL does have a close competitor in the “buggy as it can be” market. It’s called Windows.
Sorry, just could not resist. I use Windows daily and I sometimes think Micro$oft trades programmers regularly with Linden Lab. LOL
To be totally honest, I have seen programs that functioned worse than Second Life. The companies that produced them were total amateurs and out of business virtually overnight. What I meant to say is that Second Life is one of the buggiest systems I’ve ever seen, networked or not. For sure, the games that I purchase work much, much better, and cost a whole lot less.
I know that SL is extremely complex. That is why I am willing to cut LL some slack whenever a new bug crops up. Takes time to fix such. No biggie.
But when that bug remains unfixed for a year, two years, three years… naw, that’s when cutting slack ends. If I was an employer, heads would be rolling. And I think the comment above about Linden Lab needing some “adult supervision” is right on the button. When I see how Linden Lab operates, I hate to say it but I am majorly reminded of the dot.com companies of the late 90s that were run by a bunch of adolescent-mentality morons that couldn’t run a company to save their lives. They played around and cost investors millions and millions of dollars instead of doing their jobs and making their visions pay off.
Linden Lab seems to have made their visions pay off with their stock investors. But they’ve done so at the expense of their customers. And the only reason people let them get away with it is because right now… there’s no other real competitor in town.
That of course, will likely change over the next 2 years. Then Linden Lab will learn what the word “consequences” really means. Answering to angry stockholders can be a nasty experience.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:27 PM
So, wait, let me see if I comprehend this…
You’re going to take workload off of single purpose servers, and place them on the MYSQL driven databases on the server itself? You’re going to add additional workload to an already overtaxed machine? Brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. All so you can cut costs and deprecate a few hundred servers. I hope it bites you in the ass.
March 17th, 2008 at 11:31 PM
#7… a guarantee……. hahahahahahahahaha… a guarantee would give u a right…. never ever a Linden will give u a right….
March 18th, 2008 at 12:45 AM
Hey, Blinders off
I have to thank SL for one thing there memory leak filled up to 1 gig of ram and found a bad sector. and crashed replaced my memory boosted to 4 gig. So i last longer before crashing. What a bargin.
March 18th, 2008 at 12:45 AM
Hello, do whatever is needed, but don’t forget the VWR-4570, please!!! Thank you
Anna
March 18th, 2008 at 12:58 AM
These upgrades are getting to be a major issue with business and customers losing purchases …not recieving what they pay for every week for months now PLEASE POST A WARNING IN WORLD BEFORE TOUCHING WHATEVER YOU ALL TOUCH that starts off this mess every week! what does it take to give a 2 second popup in game telling us that you have started working on code beware not to purchase ..i swear to god total freakin morons are running this show it never fails soon as you all mess with code behind the scenes these purchase errors start failed money transfers and database errors
you all wait till after everyones already lost there item they tryed to buy and lost there money before you decide oh we better post a blog report PLEASE GIVE YOUR DAMN CUSTOMERS WARNINGS how many times do we have to ask
March 18th, 2008 at 1:42 AM
LL just proves that things dont always get better with age, sometimes you jsut need to put them out of thier misey and go get another one, im jsut hoping and praying that LL and the brass at linden labs would quit pocketing the money they take in and try hiring someone that at least knows something about programming, its been 4 years that i know of and i cant remember a single thing ever that got fixed and stayed fixed. then again i still believe you get what you pay for. but its obvious that when a company gets the big head the customers come last and LL proves that every single week, plus they love to rub salt in after the fact. so now LL plans yet again to hang that magic carrot out in front of us and play it all over again.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:09 AM
Complaints, complaints, complaints…….
grrrrrrrrrrrrrr…
Stop whining about land prices. If you find it too expensive, why don’t you just forget the idea of buying ???
Ha ?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:15 AM
Bad bug handling is the one thing. The other thing is totally unprofessional feedback handling from Linden’s side.
- Search not working for keywords with less than 3 characters? No warning.
- “Attach to…” not working propperly? Nothing.
- Group chat messed up? No info at all.
I could continue this list for a long time, I’m sure.
Sometimes it would help residents to get just a short message from LL that they are aware of those issues and working on it. And I mean an inworld message or an email - and no blog entry or jira discussion one has to investigate first.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:17 AM
@ 74
If you don’t like the complaints here, why don’t you just stop reading them?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:18 AM
Hahahaha…
If you don’t enjoy second life,
why don’t you just QUIT ?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:20 AM
@26 I agree with you, LL please stop saying that !
So far every time that has been said something weird happens.
Oh btw, fix my inventory that got messed up over a month ago after that upgrade that had to be reverted, Please ?!
I reported it and so far only one response? the trouble ticket has been open for over a month and still some of my scripts in my inventory won’t work, that or crack the whip on getting us Mono, lol.
March 18th, 2008 at 2:34 AM
“70 Steady Enzo Says:
March 18th, 2008 at 12:45 AM
Hey, Blinders off
I have to thank SL for one thing there memory leak filled up to 1 gig of ram and found a bad sector. and crashed replaced my memory boosted to 4 gig. So i last longer before crashing. What a bargin.”
WOW your not Joking!!!!!!! I donew the adding for 4 giga to my computer and it helped. But now This junky client eats that up too…..I had enough of this. Its not bitching “ITS JUST FACT” People those that you LL rah rah people and those that work for LL in some ways PLEASE don`t tell us not to others stop whining and bitching. Those thats don`t have relations with LL Knows all well hoe bad things are. And they will getting worse. Now that LL has ONCE again is allowing signups without real e-mail address this game is going to be even more filled with alts without any real information on file……. wait its not even may when the kids wil be out and logging in and trying to crash the game………. Ok all you RAH RAH people explain what posotive things that can come out of this?
Depressing no, just plain facts!
March 18th, 2008 at 2:40 AM
Are you feeling better now, U M ?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:56 AM
Still living in the past?
March 18th, 2008 at 2:59 AM
I live in SL.
March 18th, 2008 at 3:53 AM
Hey trinity, I guess you say quit the game..When alot of people have busineess and money vested in it.. Hmmm maybe trinity is willing to pay back all our monies lost in the game… Trinity you seem to overlook the fact that big monies are spent here and we have vested interest.. So maybe now in trinity view we all just quit and not worry about the 100s of dollars we invested,, Some thousands. Maybe you like spending alot of money on faulty products and just walking away whe it dosn’t work. May we all be as rich as you
March 18th, 2008 at 4:05 AM
Well kids like him live at home, don`t pay for housing or living cost. He might run what 10 or more bots 24 hours a day ( which he doesnt pay electric bills either)taking money out of sl. And he has a computer(s) with over 3,000.00+……..Wait they same one that steal software programs and music too.
March 18th, 2008 at 4:53 AM
Its fair to say, if you have been around SL for long enough, It cannot be considered anything other than Beta. What smokes, is the high level of finance over the years has gone into this product by those that are no more than Beta Testers/Lab rats.
I cannot imagine any other business platform that exists that has so many failures, but keeps on ringing the till.
What happens when all this is at a commercial level of useability? Will LL then start charging every more to use it?
I cannot remember a single week over the past 4 years, where there hasn’t been issues, and not always ‘new’ ones, some reappear quite regular over and over. What some call progress (Dazzle, tear off menus, voice, windlight etc) Others call eye candy for the paying kids.
Us old timers have been asking for years, get stability first.. eye candy afterwards.
March 18th, 2008 at 5:39 AM
Let me extend AMW point………When I entered back in 2004 Oct. The game was very differnt. Now well its become bigger (not that much better). Popultion was 30,000 avies ( real signups were about 13,000 many alts for that time too look at the numbers between the two). The client used was 1.5.5 we had alot of problems. music streams always failed, teleported resulted in breaking of scripted objects that we worse. Lag was hitting levels of unplayabity when reaching 30 in a sim (only mainland at that time.) This was bad because we had to fly from telehubs to our final landing point. Sims blowup with over loading the asset server when we worse prim hair, shoes etc and many other issues like taking 1 hour to login during peak times on sl 6pm to 7pm SLT…….
BUT……………..
That doesnt compare to the nightmare of lost objects from inventory. copybot, much longer delaying of login times. people falling off world that can not be logged off or killed by LL for hours and days at a time. Memory leaks that at times is so great Its like having my period its the heavy. Etc etc etc Too many too many issues too little action taken AMW does bringup points that is well known on sl. And there is not anyone can fight that it does exist. Oh you can cal him a whinner or cry baby etc. But he knows what he talking about! Dazzle itsself is a just a ego tripping piece of **** that just wasted money and resources.
Is this depress Travis Lambert? Or should I say (LARS) Well doggy may you should wakeup and stop dream of 2004. This is 2008 and we have more pressing issues then dealing (with ReallyRick M) badly done PR nightmare that blowup in LL face. We have to face the facts that the game is indeed in deep dog poo and unless we start dealing with issues that are not selfifsh totally mememe. This game will fail. ( lets hope it doesnt……
Usagi
March 18th, 2008 at 6:14 AM
LOL…. personnal attacks now… amazing…
Why did you invest so much on a game that isn’t stable ???
I invested too… a lot, …..a lot of time and money.
I am grown up and have a job, a family. This to say I am responsible for myself. I have to earn the money I spend on SL, and on my computer. BUT I don’t speculate. I am not stealing money nout of other people’s pockets.
I have no bot at all, and only have one Alt, which I use only to save my inventory, from time to time. Clever, eh ?
When I suggest the idea of quitting the game, I mean it would ease some people’s stress. Some seem really upset here, and sometimes even not able to type or speak english correctly. So, yes, people who constantly get mad at LL AND at other resident should allow themselves a break.
I can’t break away from SL, and don’t intend to… but if I decided to, I would never ask anyone to give my money back to me.
I chose to spend it there, knowing there was issues and crashes etc, etc.
Now… who’s the Kid ?
March 18th, 2008 at 6:26 AM
Dear trinity,
I hope you’re not offended if I address you as Trinity. Now I do not mean to personally attack you but I’ve got a great doubt in your ability to see the big picture here.
If people just quit then people will have fewer friends in secondlife, and they might get bored or even move to other games with their friends, now five people have just quit… Now over on the other clique to my left, 10 people just quit… soon we have numbers of paying and verified users (the kind that investors/advertisers pay attention to) leaving and not being replaced.
What happens to secondlife when your advice to people is to just quit if they don’t like something, did you think about this? If enough people quit the business model that barely keeps the servers up falls apart and YOU wont have a secondlife to play either, even if you still enjoy it.
Think about this before you tell people to stop complaining and that they should shut up, these vocal people are the very same ones I see in the JIRA system(Linden Lab’s bug tracker and reporting tool.) and the same sort of people that put together third party projects which in the end benefit secondlife because there were unhappy with what it offered in the first place. (Remember that windlight was originally in the hands of a few dissidence who disliked the old linden sky.)
So I ask you, Trinity… er… trinity… Think about the bigger picture?
Users matter and so do their opinions.