Comments on: 559 Havok4 Early Adopter regions updated with 11 fixes - RC1 of the new Second Life Simulator http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/ By Linden Lab Mon, 13 Oct 2008 10:51:29 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Burgess Miles http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591419 Burgess Miles Sat, 22 Mar 2008 21:47:17 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591419 Thanks Sidewinder for the quick reply even though my entry was decidely off topic! Friends online still doesn't work btw. My recent experience of SL - and I have many friends who would concur - is that lag, rezzing failures, logg off while porting, frozen viewers, more lag and over all performance of SL have become increasinglt bad over the last month or two. SL performed like a smooth dream in December and January and have since become worse and worse. I am running SL on a fairly state of the art comp and fast and steady connection speed. It's something in SL that's not entirely heatlhy. I wish that these issues would be explained, and recognised, in a plain, everyday - non technical - language... Thanks Sidewinder for the quick reply even though my entry was decidely off topic! Friends online still doesn’t work btw. My recent experience of SL - and I have many friends who would concur - is that lag, rezzing failures, logg off while porting, frozen viewers, more lag and over all performance of SL have become increasinglt bad over the last month or two. SL performed like a smooth dream in December and January and have since become worse and worse. I am running SL on a fairly state of the art comp and fast and steady connection speed. It’s something in SL that’s not entirely heatlhy. I wish that these issues would be explained, and recognised, in a plain, everyday - non technical - language…

]]> By: Sidewinder Linden http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591346 Sidewinder Linden Sat, 22 Mar 2008 01:47:37 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591346 @49 Darien: Umm... Dunno about promising that one! :) /Sidewinder P.S. I just posted a blog about updating the beta preview. That fix is in there so you can check it on any region that is "Havok4 Beta Server" in "Help > About Second Life". The Havok1 and Mono regions there also have distinctive ground textures. @49 Darien: Umm… Dunno about promising that one! :) /Sidewinder

P.S. I just posted a blog about updating the beta preview. That fix is in there so you can check it on any region that is “Havok4 Beta Server” in “Help > About Second Life”. The Havok1 and Mono regions there also have distinctive ground textures.

]]> By: Darien Caldwell http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591323 Darien Caldwell Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:51:02 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591323 Thanks for the information, Sidewinder. :) A 40x improvement sounds like a worthy advancement. Can you do that for all the other calls now? ;) (j/k) Thanks for the information, Sidewinder. :) A 40x improvement sounds like a worthy advancement. Can you do that for all the other calls now? ;) (j/k)

]]> By: Sidewinder Linden http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591307 Sidewinder Linden Fri, 21 Mar 2008 21:16:16 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591307 @38 Darien: (also posted as followup on your blog) Hey Darien - thanks for that find… We’ve found the source of the problem and have a fix that will be in the next update, which I hope to get to the Beta Preview soon. As it turns out, there are some “interesting choices” in terms of programming in that “part”, and some changes that the scripter could make that could further improve it’s efficiency. The core issue that you’ve reported was due to one function being called repeatedly that we were not handling very efficiently in the simulator. We have found an optimization that makes that call 40x or so faster, so it ought to be much better in the new build. Thanks again for letting us know about the issue. I’ll talk to the vendor about the other possibilities for future updates/products. Regards, Sidewinder @38 Darien: (also posted as followup on your blog)

Hey Darien - thanks for that find… We’ve found the source of the problem and have a fix that will be in the next update, which I hope to get to the Beta Preview soon. As it turns out, there are some “interesting choices” in terms of programming in that “part”, and some changes that the scripter could make that could further improve it’s efficiency. The core issue that you’ve reported was due to one function being called repeatedly that we were not handling very efficiently in the simulator. We have found an optimization that makes that call 40x or so faster, so it ought to be much better in the new build. Thanks again for letting us know about the issue. I’ll talk to the vendor about the other possibilities for future updates/products.

Regards,

Sidewinder

]]> By: Sidewinder Linden http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591276 Sidewinder Linden Fri, 21 Mar 2008 17:59:28 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591276 @46 Burgess: I've been talking with folks internally about this as I've noticed it repeatedly as well... It's known but I don't know of an ETA for when it will be resolved... I'll go check again to see what is going on with the issue. Thanks for the reminder. /Sidewinder @46 Burgess: I’ve been talking with folks internally about this as I’ve noticed it repeatedly as well… It’s known but I don’t know of an ETA for when it will be resolved… I’ll go check again to see what is going on with the issue. Thanks for the reminder. /Sidewinder

]]> By: Burgess Miles http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591244 Burgess Miles Fri, 21 Mar 2008 16:03:56 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591244 Since there is nowhere but here to let once voice be heard I have to use this space... Friends online on the SL website haven't worked for quite some time, says there's no friends online even when there are. Any plans to correct this? Since there is nowhere but here to let once voice be heard I have to use this space… Friends online on the SL website haven’t worked for quite some time, says there’s no friends online even when there are. Any plans to correct this?

]]> By: Sidewinder Linden http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591145 Sidewinder Linden Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:34:58 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591145 @41 Whisper: "the underlying software to support them fully has not been realized as far as i can see" Yes, we have explicitly stated many times that megaprims are not fully supported, because from many angles the related features and controls have not been implemented. "Further, the argument that megaprims are indeed essential in builds to reduce prim usage fails to address prim usage on the other side of the equation where small sized builds are not advantaged by megaprims in any way shape or form." Just because small builds do not necessarily use them does not imply that large builds do not use them. In addition, there are smaller builds that do use megaprims in various places, including as platforms to reduce prim usage. "So effectively you are asking the community to support a small vocal minority." I do not understand this statement. We are not asking the community to support anything with this clarification of the behavior of the Havok4-based simulator. We are stating that: * we do not fully support megaprims as a feature * we recognize that they have become integrated as a crucial part of some builds, and provide a useful function to others * rather than knowingly destroying existing builds with a server update, we have chosen to create a limited capacity that enables significant-sized megaprims to persist * we are not providing any additional tool enhancements that will enable creation, special manipulation or other megaprim features with the Havok4-enabled simulator Regards, Sidewinder @41 Whisper:
“the underlying software to support them fully has not been realized as far as i can see”

Yes, we have explicitly stated many times that megaprims are not fully supported, because from many angles the related features and controls have not been implemented.

“Further, the argument that megaprims are indeed essential in builds to reduce prim usage fails to address prim usage on the other side of the equation where small sized builds are not advantaged by megaprims in any way shape or form.”

Just because small builds do not necessarily use them does not imply that large builds do not use them. In addition, there are smaller builds that do use megaprims in various places, including as platforms to reduce prim usage.

“So effectively you are asking the community to support a small vocal minority.”

I do not understand this statement. We are not asking the community to support anything with this clarification of the behavior of the Havok4-based simulator. We are stating that:
* we do not fully support megaprims as a feature
* we recognize that they have become integrated as a crucial part of some builds, and provide a useful function to others
* rather than knowingly destroying existing builds with a server update, we have chosen to create a limited capacity that enables significant-sized megaprims to persist
* we are not providing any additional tool enhancements that will enable creation, special manipulation or other megaprim features with the Havok4-enabled simulator

Regards,

Sidewinder

]]> By: Sidewinder Linden http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591141 Sidewinder Linden Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:26:01 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591141 @40 Belos: Discussions on megaprims have happened in several of the blog posts about the Havok4 project over the last six months, as well as I believe a completely separate post about megaprims some months ago, and in numerous office hours about the Havok4 project that have been held twice weekly throughout the process. "I do understand the reduction of maximum size - but is there anyone who can tell me if the megaprims will become editable within limits?" No additional tools for manipulating, modifying or creating megaprims will be added as part of this project. We are supporting the existence of in-world megaprims since they have become a key part of many region builds, yet placing some limits on them to prevent some forms of blatant griefing and abuse. /Sidewinder @40 Belos: Discussions on megaprims have happened in several of the blog posts about the Havok4 project over the last six months, as well as I believe a completely separate post about megaprims some months ago, and in numerous office hours about the Havok4 project that have been held twice weekly throughout the process.

“I do understand the reduction of maximum size - but is there anyone who can tell me if the megaprims will become editable within limits?”

No additional tools for manipulating, modifying or creating megaprims will be added as part of this project. We are supporting the existence of in-world megaprims since they have become a key part of many region builds, yet placing some limits on them to prevent some forms of blatant griefing and abuse.

/Sidewinder

]]> By: Sidewinder Linden http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591139 Sidewinder Linden Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:22:34 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591139 @39 Takuan: The theory about bad data return (or corrupted notecards) certainly makes some sense. I noticed in the other blog threads some commentary about setting properties of linked prims, and wondering if they "didn't exist" at the time of the operation running. I haven't seen the code, but is it perhaps possible that your code makes assumptions about the speed that linked prims rez or the sequence that they will appear, and that on Havok4 the timing is subtle but different and they actually don't appear "in time" once in a while? This is just a complete guess, but I thought I'd toss it out there in case you can see in your code some cases where it relies on sequencing of events that might not be guaranteed... Hope this helps, Sidewinder @39 Takuan: The theory about bad data return (or corrupted notecards) certainly makes some sense. I noticed in the other blog threads some commentary about setting properties of linked prims, and wondering if they “didn’t exist” at the time of the operation running. I haven’t seen the code, but is it perhaps possible that your code makes assumptions about the speed that linked prims rez or the sequence that they will appear, and that on Havok4 the timing is subtle but different and they actually don’t appear “in time” once in a while? This is just a complete guess, but I thought I’d toss it out there in case you can see in your code some cases where it relies on sequencing of events that might not be guaranteed… Hope this helps, Sidewinder

]]> By: LouRavi Karas http://blog.secondlife.com/2008/03/19/559-havok4-early-adopter-regions-updated-with-11-fixes-rc1-of-the-new-second-life-simulator/#comment-591077 LouRavi Karas Thu, 20 Mar 2008 18:05:16 +0000 http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/?p=1758#comment-591077 I am the creator of the HEPS Scuba diving equipments, and i have found whats different ... I only take controls of the PGup & PGdown to set the buoyancy of the stab jacket. Other controls are not taken. On the Havock 4 Beta, only the rot right and rot left are effective, forward and back are stuck. As the object is physic, if i take control of Back/Forward and apply an impulse or a force, it works. But this solution is not easy... So, now the question is : is it normal that the Fwd Back controls are stuck if i take control of Up/Down. And they are only stuck if in water, when touching bottom of the sea, on the sand, it works... regards I am the creator of the HEPS Scuba diving equipments, and i have found whats different … I only take controls of the PGup & PGdown to set the buoyancy of the stab jacket. Other controls are not taken. On the Havock 4 Beta, only the rot right and rot left are effective, forward and back are stuck. As the object is physic, if i take control of Back/Forward and apply an impulse or a force, it works. But this solution is not easy… So, now the question is : is it normal that the Fwd Back controls are stuck if i take control of Up/Down. And they are only stuck if in water, when touching bottom of the sea, on the sand, it works… regards

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