Tip of the Week #17: How to run multiple viewers at the same time
Thursday, January 10th, 2008 at 4:44 AM by: Torley LindenSecond Life Video Tutorials:
“Virtual education, real results.”
Did you know if you have more than one Second Life account (each can only be logged in once), you can have them logged in simultaneously? Many of you prolly do, because I’ve gotten many requests for this tip!
YOU CAN HAS VIDEO TUTORIAL! Use it responsibly:
This has a variety of usages, including but not limited to:
- Reproducing bugs (like VWR-3123) that require more than one avatar.
- Attending two “can’t-miss” events in different locations.
- Filming movies (machinima) with another avie as a “stand-in”.
- Transferring and organizing inventory between accounts without having to log on and off repeatedly (waste of time!).
- Talking to yourself.
This is a Windows demo — if you’re a Mac or Linux Resident, see instructions for your platform, which are somewhat different. For further details, consult our Knowledge Base article on the matter.
Also expanding on what I mentioned in the vidtut, more “command line” stuff AKA “client parameters” can be found here. They’re applied in a similar way, but I encourage you to understand what each of does before actually using it.
And, this multiple viewer tip does work with the new web-based login screen in the Release Candidate and WindLight viewers too — it just looks a little different.
-Torley Linden 
wants you to be more of yourself!
January 10th, 2008 at 4:50 AM
Second Life has been just that for me and has given me a world in which I have finally found freedom. Thank you!
January 10th, 2008 at 4:50 AM
Hmm
January 10th, 2008 at 5:07 AM
Yeah let’s show everyone the way to run 40 bots for camping, and make SURE this is possible despite legitimate concerns of all those campers lagging SL, sucking money out of the SL economy, being used to game and scam the search engines.
So could you cover some of the better griefing techniques, next?
January 10th, 2008 at 5:10 AM
Now I can act as if Second Life is full of life – very usefull to impress all of my friends!! This will double the number of residents to 22 Million!!!
I know, its no more than approx. 35.000 online, but HEY - I can talk to myself! Second life is so great!
January 10th, 2008 at 5:11 AM
Thanks for this new video tutorial, Torley! I had been looking forward to a way to talk to myself, and now you tell me how to do exactly that.
(Does the happy dance)
January 10th, 2008 at 5:17 AM
Most useless tip ever.
Unlike other games SL runs like crap, while it has bad graphics and physics and crashes every 15 minutes.
So you think running multiple instances of it will work for people???
Instead of making these fucked up sop called tips, FIX THE FUCKING GAME AND STOP DOING USELESS SHIT.
PS: This even goes for PR personel, since they can stop comunicating and start chasi9ng the developers to do a better job.
(ow wait, you lost the best developer on SL, i forgot that you guys we’re that stupid already)
January 10th, 2008 at 5:24 AM
This is so useful to those of us who make and test product vendors and other scripted objects - my only regret is that I didn’t know it could be done before!
January 10th, 2008 at 5:34 AM
This is a great feature which I have been using for a while, however, it should be noted that it is quite demanding on hardware/memory/video/bandwidth, and I would only recommend it to be run on machines that exceed the recommended hardware configs - also keep a close eye on CPU and System Temps, as running multiple clients will easily push temps up.
It is a great tool for testing, and very helpful for business owners.
January 10th, 2008 at 5:37 AM
Sadly this isn’t the best tutorial. I love your work Torely, but this tutorial wasn’t a good idea. Too many people I know, use multiple viewers to have tons of people at places and increase their traffic which is bad for those who actually try >_>
So with this tutorial up now, more people can basically “cheat” the traffic.
January 10th, 2008 at 5:38 AM
I repeat, this is a *serious loophole* that needs to be plugged, NOT something you should make a tutorial about to teach more people how. How badly DO you want SL to lag, huh? If I had my druthers, alternate accounts would be limited to one and it would be forbidden to have them online at the same time.
January 10th, 2008 at 5:39 AM
Sigh.. I clicked on every possible option I could find in the above blurb and didnt find a single one for the information….either I missed the direct link or there wasn’t one. Getting sent to the support page isnt all that helpful. However, if others found it, I guess it must be me.
January 10th, 2008 at 5:40 AM
Hmm.. cant seem to get this to work in vista. Still getting the “secondlife if already running error”…
January 10th, 2008 at 5:43 AM
shoot.. I didnt have a space.. Im an idiot! works fine!
January 10th, 2008 at 5:44 AM
The *most* important command line parameter is the “-loginuri” one that will tell the viewer to connect an alternate grid or sim that is not ran by Linden Labs. There are currently several hundred sims online now and more appearing rapidly as development of OpenSim project moves forward.
Additionally a few grids are offering sim hosting for substantially less then the fees that Linden Labs charges.
Perhaps that could be the topic of a future tutorial?
January 10th, 2008 at 5:44 AM
buhaha xP
January 10th, 2008 at 5:50 AM
Look at the blog about fixing the bugs during yesterday’s maintenance downtime — every second post complains about campers and the lag they cause and how they take money out of SL (I personally know of a person with 6 alts who has them camping all over and the only thing he does is visit his account page to see how much he can cash out, $600/mo. on average he told me).
So I am just really disgusted at this tutorial, because it shows 1. Lindens don’t read blog replies and 2. They don’t give a rip.
If you need your stuff tested in SL, get friends. Making alts is nothing but a way for SL to look like it’s got a lot of residents or traffic, and it’s cheating.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:03 AM
I’ve known about this method for running multiple simultaneous viewers for several months, but I was under the impression that -multiple was designed for internal Linden use and that it was against the ToS for normal residents to be logged in more than once at a time. But since this tutorial exists, I guess the ToS doesn’t forbid this after all. =)
To anybody concerned about potential abuse by campers - there are several alternative SL viewers that are much lighter-weight than the official viewer (because they are text-only). Some of these viewers (like GhettoSL) even let you script an avatar to TP somewhere, sit on a certain object etc, so any serious camper would probably use those instead of this option on the main viewer.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:05 AM
Those of you who haven’t been here longer than a set amount of time think it’s a bad idea when it’s been a known trick for a very long time, Torley is only showing others how some of their friends do it since the requst is even more popular now thanks to TE,ect… there are plenty of reasons why someone would want to use multiple accounts at one time and all aren’t for griefing.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:10 AM
I CAN HAS….
I remember this.. that’s Kittenspeech, over at http://icanhascheezburger.com/ ^.^
January 10th, 2008 at 6:14 AM
Torley Lindens Tutorial; How to bloat the grid with campers!
January 10th, 2008 at 6:14 AM
no need to worry about people using multiple instances of the viewer on one machine. the memory leaks will take care of that pretty quick. one viewer, one machine. as for the 40 bots… they already do that with modified clients that do not use graphics. LL needs to make traffic falsification a permanent ban offense.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:15 AM
The REAL users of Second Life have said they are fed up with all these fake Alt’s being used by cheaters and you guys turn around and tell everyone how to do it. Well thats one way to resolve legal issues, just tell everyone how to do it, lol… Saves trying to explain way Popular Places is still around even though some of them are running 50+ of their own Traffic Bots in order to make the list.
Next we all need the Program that VoomLand is using to buy land, since its not your avg Land Bot system!
Then how to hack the God Powers!
January 10th, 2008 at 6:16 AM
Do you have to log into each viewer with a seperate account or can you log into each with a single account? In other words, could I theoretically have a twin with me at all times?
January 10th, 2008 at 6:23 AM
This doesn’t even seem to make sense. To make $600 US per month you’d need to be making at a minimum $60 Linden per hour camping 24/7 for a month. I think your friend is exaggerating his her or brags.
If it’s the truth, I’d be asking my friend where in the hell can you camp and make that much money with just six alts? Even if you figure you’re getting $20 Linden per hour, that’s just about $1 US per alt, or about $6 US per day. In a month that would be $6 times 30 days, or about $180 US.
It might be better to think postively and provide some suggested alternatives that would more accurately represent real traffic that can’t be gamed and would help reduce lag.
Some good starts would be really limiting multiple basic accounts. It would also be a good idea to limit inventories on basic accounts to perhaps 2,000 inventory items. That may go a long way to reducing the amount of load on the asset servers.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:30 AM
Many great comments above ..pro and con…and if I had my druthers, Torley…the Lindens would be the first ones to point out the cons as well, …. not the residents.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:39 AM
As for lag…instead using alternate viewers, I bet simply changing the RENDERING and GRAPHIC settings on the main viewer would work.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:44 AM
“YOU CAN HAS VIDEO TUTORIAL! Use it responsibly:”
Oh what the hell…
You know this is just like those griefer stores that sell wall to wall scripts and weapons to annoy and harass others, to orbit entire sims, to spawn screaming invisible prims… BUT THEY SAY USE IT RESPONSIBLY SO IT MUST BE OK
Whoever thought this article would be a good idea should seriously be fired on the spot.
January 10th, 2008 at 6:48 AM
Not only is this not a problem, it’s a requirement.
Any builders who need to deal with the permission system in their products HAVE to be able to log on multiple times concurrently on occasion just to make damn sure their products WILL work properly when someone else is using them.
This has nothing to do with bots… bots use libsl, not the client, and make separate connections from there. In fact bot software can do things that require additional config tweaks in the client… there’s some technical limit in the protocol, for example, that keeps you from being able to successfully have more than two accounts in the same sim at the same time from the same IP address otherwise.
(no, please, nobody pop up and explain what it is, I know what it is, and there’s already enough griping about people letting already escaped cats out of the bag as it is)
January 10th, 2008 at 7:04 AM
This is a great starter tutorial, if you run multiple AVs for real reasons such as separating your play time from your SL business practices or other things. Most effective traffic camping and such uses bots anyways, not client app multiple logins. So even if you disabled this ability in the clients, you would only hurt real users, not
If you want to boost your performance on a single computer for multiple copies there’s a couple extra things that will help: Having a multi-core processor helps a lot, as does having lots of memory. Two video cards and two monitors doesn’t hurt, and one of the biggest impacts is if you have two hard drives, install a copy of SL on each and make sure they both use their own cache directories on the individual drives.
As for the griping, the good folks are just assume the client is the only way to do things because of their limited experience. PLEASE quit saying this is a griefer/camper helping tool, it is not unless 1 or 2 manual logins(not bots!) per computer seems like a realistic way to do things. (Though, a machine able to set multiple IP addresses per network card, run a 100 or so non-graphical cutom coded no-load clients, etc. does seem like it’d make a lot more sense than running the full client multiple times, hmm?)
January 10th, 2008 at 7:07 AM
this tutorial isn’t about bots…
“a little information can be dangerous”… and create superstition.
some of the comments here are another example of the superstition that gives rise to particle-hating, megaprim-banning, restriction-requsting silliness.
thse who can keep an illegit number of alts online at once with this method would probably deserve to do so, seeing as they spent the equivalent of the national defense budget for a pc that could handle it. (j/k)
thanks Torley, for being sharing in a moment when the scared sheeple cry out for MORE restriction.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:09 AM
shakeshead…….if we don`t have enough problems within the game……This is just sad and totally .never mind ok i say it depressing…………….
January 10th, 2008 at 7:10 AM
@Pepper Haas
you clearly do not know enough about lag and multiple accounts use.
campers ’sucking money out of the SL economy’ -> oh lol
also, if everybody knows how to game the search engine,
the search engine cannot be gamed by a few evil guys anymore - which is what we need.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:11 AM
Thanks for the short tutorial, Torley! (Though I think I like longer ones better…
I’ve been wondering how that worked, so I could debug a script or two.
(To work on them in the past, I’ve had to draft a friend of mine to help. Now, I can work if she’s not available! Yay!)
January 10th, 2008 at 7:12 AM
Hey - I have to use this trick from time to time for “positioning purposes” on furniture, etc, I can tell you this - I have never ever used any kind of camping chair or dance pad, so don’t try that slur on me. It has legitimate uses and its been available as info here for the year plus I’ve been a resident. Don’t paint us all with the same brush.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:14 AM
I must be dreaming…
January 10th, 2008 at 7:22 AM
I had to cme back to see if i really saw this …………………..this……….oh gesh……….still what a nightmare.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:24 AM
Well…this tip encouraged my first “comment” here! I have been battling bots on the camping spots of my beach/trivia club for months, resulting in my finally having to turn them off when I’m not online. Now you are telling everyone how to cheat me. The bots don’t vote, therefore bring no profit to business ventures here….traffic only places you higher in lists, not much profit their either. We’re paying over $140US monthly running our club in tiers alone, and have yet to make a dime there. Thanks to this new tip of yours, I don’t see a light at the end of the tunnel anymore….I only see it getting worse. So far, I still love the game, but its getting harder to justify the expense. Are you listening, Mr. Linden??????
January 10th, 2008 at 7:28 AM
@ Pepper Haas and all the rest of the people complaining about how this method can be abused. Yes, you’re correct. But you know what? Give it up. Please.
Thank you, Torley. Another fun tutorial.
I’ve known about this this FEATURE for quite some time. And yes, it’s a feature. I use it in my building and scripting in order to test the creations I make (I sell it to my alt and then run it through its paces to see it as and end-user/buyer would.)
There are DVD copying programs that allow you to steal movies. So, does that mean we should stop making and selling DVDs? Penalize the majority in order to prevent a few from abusing it?
Just because it can be used as an exploit doesn’t mean it’s not useful and often used as a good tool. As for traffic campers, anyone who’s serious would never bother opening multiple viewers. The resources required are too much. They would more likely use a light client such as [HA! I'm not giving the name out here] - but, just because a lot of people use the light client for traffic camping doesn’t mean it, too isn’t a highly useful tool. (I use it to login and accomplish tasks while at RL work - such as paying bills, IM communications for support and many other things that don’t require me to move around and see my surroundings.)
So, yes - it can be used to game the system (grief? I don’t know that any serious griefer would bother. They prefer shoopedlife)
So please don’t demand the lessened functionality of a tool or feature that is beneficial to many, only to prevent a few from doing something you don’t like with that feature.
What happens is we lose something , and the few abusers just find another way.
Thank you again, Torley. The tutorial was entertaining as always.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:30 AM
Torley .. i was thinking rather high of you, compared to the other Lindens …. BUT now sorry to say but your are at level - (MINUS) 1000 on my scale …..
From Shame … to disgust … only for cheaters …. (multiple camping etc …. ) … So landowners NOW you know where your Linden$ are going …
Where is Honesty gone???? Honesty even in SL seems to be the hardest word …. (Sorry to Billy Joel to have used a title of a beautifull song )
A former very happy Resident …. That the Lindens support cheaters … That s the max ….
January 10th, 2008 at 7:32 AM
Excellent tutorial! Being able to do this certainly beats the hell out of running between my laptop at the couch and my desktop at the (duh) desk when I need another av in-world.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:33 AM
DeborahAnn, I hate to tell yout his, but clubs never make money. They’re just used to attract traffic so that the retail space around them can be rented for a higher price.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:35 AM
It’s always beneficial to read previous posts before stuffing both feet in your mouth or running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:37 AM
Thanks guys for the great tutorial on how to boost my site and make money. Reading Torleys tutorial it never occurred to me that I could do all these things, I just thought it was a great way to solve a huge problem I have testing permissions and backing up valuable inventory. However, $600 a month sounds like a good deal to me so ill look into it.
Thanks so much.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:41 AM
As for the complainers, I rolled my eyes so hard I think I sprained ‘em. Next y’all will want all scripts removed from SL so people can’t use them for griefing. Sheesh.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:43 AM
I suggest to all the people who can to flood the grid with alternate avatars.
This way LL will have the results of this stupid tutorial.
Flooding the grid with alts will eventually cause more lag and maybe even halt the grid from working.
Please i BEG everyone to start using this feature if it was only to give LL more expenses because they again need to expand the network.
Also the numbers of players will be even more false than they are right now.
AGAIN I BEG everyone to use this feature.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:43 AM
I can understand builders needing this switching. But Come On have you seen the popular listing..Let me Cut and paste a few for your reading pleasure…………….
NAME Traffic
1.) Money Island 101686
2.) Money Tree Island 95360
3.) SEXY! BEST FRREE SEX & ORGY ROOM IN SL 94960
3.) SEXY LAND! 93400
4.) THE PHARM 93097
5.) SEXY 2 SIMPLY….(BLA BLA BLA you get the point) 89868
ON AND ON AND ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
What does all these have in common? Well Its not about real people behind the monitors and keyboards……..Its about BOTS!!!!!!!!!! A hacked up viewer that can run anywhere from 5 to 20 avies person ONE COMPUTER……This is not the purpose of the switching in the UI. Builders need this but please don`t play this game saying what is the real purpose is…………This is just sad just sad.
Usagi
January 10th, 2008 at 7:46 AM
Stupidity comes at a price too…
January 10th, 2008 at 7:47 AM
@ 11
I’m on Vista and it works just fine.
Thx Torley =)
January 10th, 2008 at 7:47 AM
People, chill down. It is next to impossible to run more than 2/3 instances of the full client on any standard PC without crashing it, even if it is a fairly high-end machine. Running two clients at once is something extremely useful for builders/scripters/vendors, they have to learn how to do this to be able to properly check for permission issues.
Bots do not use the standard SL client, they use completely different methods than this one.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:50 AM
also a small note you most likely under windows xp need to run professional as it supports duel core and multi treading better and you can give each secoind life instance its own core / process
i do use this sometimes when testing my scripts
good job torley
Rev
January 10th, 2008 at 7:52 AM
Just what sense is this ? don’t we have enough problems trying to get one avatar on at a time when many people are logged in without making it worse by showing people how they can make it worse for everyone by having multible avatars online ?? .
January 10th, 2008 at 7:53 AM
at 47 yes it is. have you seen the 3rd party viewer that is min functions? barebones ……………..as i said builders i understand but how generial easy going throught about how this was been prosented to the use is just sad sad sad….Please there are more bits on sl then real users……look at the popular listings.
January 10th, 2008 at 7:55 AM
Bots*
January 10th, 2008 at 7:58 AM
Hi there, followed the steps but my pc still says ” Secondlife already running”.
to all writers above: I think there will always be users that misuse such tips, and those that really need it to do whatever they want and i dont mean cheating but responsible use. so i dont think its worth moaning about:))
January 10th, 2008 at 8:01 AM
Nobody ( atlease i am not ) is bitching, complaining, crying, whinning, moaning etc etc etc. But the fact of thea mtter is we have enough problems with stability and other UI problems. But letting more and more bots come in and stuffout the servers with 24 hours money farmers that only take Linden Monies out of the game. Is not my idea of fair aplay. Since there are times people can`t get online because the servers are over loaded or dance clubs are filled with Bots……
January 10th, 2008 at 8:02 AM
ok, found MY mistake: I forgot the space before the minus *blushes*
January 10th, 2008 at 8:02 AM
This is very useful for scripters and simply for having fun. And it’s not like LL is spilling the beans on some closely guarded secret, people have known about this for a long time.
Just because something can be used by griefers and cheaters isn’t reason to ignore it or throw it out - many of the fundamental features of SL are exploitable in some way. SL is a space for imagination and freedom and some will abuse that. In any case, the usefulness of logging in two Alts simultaneously in this way for camping and landbots etc. is prettty severely overestimated by you perpetual grumblers. There are plenty of legitimate uses for this so shut yer traps, or go complain about something that matters like server stability or the age verification/personal privacy fiasco.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:06 AM
Does anyone actually feel bad that multiple alts would be able to camp at a place? The locations which support camping are the next step below the bot trafficers in generating BS traffic numbers.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:07 AM
I really don’t understand why running multiple viewers is even promoted? In my newbie days I even thought this would be a violation of the TOS. Using multiple viewers is the ideal way to run scams on residents.
You close banks to protect people from being robbed and a few days later you run a how-to fool people in to thinking you are a unique resident? Why does LL only wants to protect their image and not their residents?
I’m getting really tired of the hypocrite behaviour of LL.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:07 AM
Works so much nicer and smoother on a Mac =P
It is a handy feature and I have used it in the past to set up poseballs and test stuff out but I do see the downsides that have already been mentioned and I hope this tut wasn’t just a way to encourage people to make alts and boost Linden Labs Resident stats? Still knowledge is there to be shared as they say.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:13 AM
I want to live in your world of the perfect existance. RL is RL so you can`t play that game and make use believe this is a good thing………
Anyways creative minds on sl is what drives the game, and they need this function but but…….i said it countless times already. But making a remark of people are bitching and making general simple minded pardons is just don`t cut it as they say. Why? because if stress test are any indiction of how running multi avies under heavey loads. We are in for bigger and worse asset sever issues. Oh yes they added clusters with the last down time. But it might NOT be near enough tto support more and more bots. . Don`t get me wrong. Growth is good for sl, But not for the cost of allowing more and more bot abuse.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:16 AM
This feature has always been around as far as I know, as even way back when I joined, before I had the account I use today, there was an explanation of how to do this in Resident Answers. No reason to “bash” Torley over the tutorial folks.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:20 AM
This isn’t a tip Torley, this is a hazard. This is something that you should actively be looking to prevent.
See all those exta alt campers that will now be appearing to game the new search system.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:20 AM
who in the world is bashing? Explaining is what atleast I am doing…..I never post in these blogs this is my first time. Please rad the remarks and point who before hitting everyone wioth your bashinh remark.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:20 AM
This has a variety of usages, including but not limited to:
Griefing
Bots
Boost SL stats to fool the press
Cheating
January 10th, 2008 at 8:25 AM
For PC users who don’t wish to clutter their environment with shortcuts, this can also be accomplished via
START
RUN…
C:/Program Files/SecondLife/SecondLife.exe -multiple
[OK]
This example assumes a default installation of SL.
If yours was customized, you can browse to the SecondLife.exe path
or type it in, directly.
The path info will be retained as your Start -> Run… setting until/unless you replace it with something else.
So, the next time you want to invoke it…
Start->Run->[OK]
January 10th, 2008 at 8:27 AM
Pepper, you and Anne are really funny
Thanks for going “over the top” and making me giggle today. It’s good to see such humor in SL every now and then, so people don’t take you too seriously 
January 10th, 2008 at 8:30 AM
“YOU CAN HAS VIDEO TUTORIAL!”
Can anybody explain this?
January 10th, 2008 at 8:32 AM
SLeeK is a great alternative when you’re wanting to run a few “drones”. they can “follow” and even “sit”, as well as chat, but thier functionality is really limited because the SLeek client is little more than an IRC-style text window for Second Life. It can be VERY useful though, because SLeeK’s footprint on memory and system resources is about 1/10th of the actual client (or less probably). Makes it really helpful when I need to test something on an alt. (like a collission sensor)… or when I need the ability to be in two places at once.
if the SL client chugs and sputters, 2 full-quality SL clients is REALLY hard on your system
January 10th, 2008 at 8:37 AM
I see this get used all the time for some very useful things such as:
Designing Furniture
Scripting / Testing SZ Scripted Weapons
Creating poses and animations
Being able to chat with your friends from 2 different RP groups you are in at the same time
Posing scenes for Snapshots
The list goes on and on….
I’m not sure what all the whining is about, if you have camping chairs well you should already know by now that there are way better ways to use those than running just 2 normal AVs. As far as traffic goes, running 2 AVs at a time makes almost no difference as compared to what you can do with a bot farm.
I’d suggest stopping all the whining and go try logging in with 2 AVs at once and have some fun.. expand your imagination just a little bit.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:40 AM
by the way.. “vidtut” is not a word.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:42 AM
Torley, you dope! Don’t you realize that you’re only encouraging more people to have an alt/bot?
January 10th, 2008 at 8:46 AM
#19 Ann O Toole: Thank you, my sentiments, exactly. And thank you all the people who explained to me about the servers campers use.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:53 AM
Normaly i never post twice on one blog … But now Torley
a. LL bans Casino on socalled “laws” to protect us Residents
b. LL bans Banks so called to PROTECT the Residents from scams
BUT
LL encourages the use of MULTIPLE BOTS for camping and scamming ???
What does LL do with all those who generate scripts to STEAL Others money??? NOTHING … and even LL STAFF is applauding it …. by giving such tips ….
If LL wants to be The White Knight in Shiny Armour, The Morality Upkeeper … Try first to live by your own .. upon the resident ENFORCED RULES ….
January 10th, 2008 at 8:54 AM
So… has anybody noticed the irony of the whiners and complainers here?
OH NO! People will open multiple viewers to camp and raise false traffic numbers on my land!!!! I’ll lose money!!!
Ummm… hello?
In my opinion if you have any camping chairs or pads or ANYTHING of the sort.. YOU ARE the one who’s cheating and falsifying your numbers. YOU are a HYPOCRITE.
So, please tell me where your land is so I can open 50 viewers and camp in your chairs. We’ll both cheat together to raise YOUR traffic and you’ll pay me for the privilege of my time and electricity in obliging you.
If you are whining about this and don’t have camping chairs or pads on your land - whine to those who do. THEY are the cheaters. THEY are enticing people to CAMP on their land for a few measly L$ to raise their numbers. You are whining to the wrong people about the wrong thing.
Usagi - where have you been? I’ve missed your perpetual, uneducated, misplaced obviously misunderstood-how-the-system-works- complaining. Good to see you back. You are so entertaining. Anne had disappeared for a time, too. But it’s good to see her back again as well. Everyone else just falls within your two shadows. But it’s good to see the pros back.
The point is the lag problems, asset server problems and stability problems have little to do with how many people (or viewers) are simultaneously logged-in. It has to do with the server software, hardware and bugs in the viewers, So everyone complaining that multiple viewer logins create lag or stability issues really need to do some research in how the entire system really works and what really causes lag and problems (50 to 80% of the time it’s YOUR connection or computer.)
Torley - great tutorial. I think I’ll find a way to play this video in world at all my properties so even more people can see how to use this handy FEATURE.
January 10th, 2008 at 8:59 AM
and here we go with the blog gamers now……..You know there with real remarks and comments that have meaning. Just just these people having fun and bashing just because they think they can switch IPs and post with many different names here. Please If you need to flame people use your real avie name. Read my post about popular listing and try to flame me again. Its facts love not VR facts….. You better read teh rules about flaming on this blog. because if you don`t you might find out the hard ways.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:08 AM
Although I regularly criticize LL for things they bungle, this is one tip that I’ll have to give them kudos for posting. Why?
YES it CAN be used by griefers and campers. So what? Show me one other thing on SL that CAN’T be used by griefers and campers. Give LL a break. The key here is to stop the camping and griefing, not to remove useful features for legitimate users.
If you want to stop camping, make it a TOS offense and then hard code it so that any single computer IP source cannot log in more than 3 accounts at once. Viola! Simple solution. As for stopping griefers… uh… I don’t really think that’s a major problem, considering the computer resources it will cost a griefer to have even 2 or 3 avs on the system. It’s not like he’s going to be able to populate SL with thousands of alts. So for the opposers, I respect your opinions and cautions, but a bit of a reality check might be in order.
The VALUES of multiple logins are many. As already noted, merchants can use an alt to test their permissions builds and vendors before releasing them to the public. Regular users can use an alt to store special-purpose fundings and pull it in when those funds need to be spent. Video and photo ops often need multiple avatars. Now, instead of needing to call a friend to assist, you can do it all yourself and save time and manpower.
There are many valuable uses for logging in two accounts at once. So I for one, will do an about face on my usual stance here and applaud LL for openly OKing and announcing this actually NICE feature of SL. Thanks folks.
(See, we *can* pat you on the back when deserved. :D)
January 10th, 2008 at 9:12 AM
Thank you Ari least someone is knowledgeable about it all.
Please Please LL REMOVE Camping… I build my own things and try and sell them to have some money to own my land and then there are these people or bots or whatever ruining it for us all by “earning” money by sittiing around. WTF oO I despise Camp Chairs. I know on Land owner who owns multiple sims with plots for sale uses Camp chairs and even created a group for the “campers” so he can send a notice just so his land shows up higher on the Search results….Now thats cheating!
But yes I fully see the reasoning behind Muliple logins. I like to log my alt which i know longer uses accept for Inventory as she has lots of Lindens worth of items, like my Studio for one.
Keep up the good work Torley =D Loves ya Tuts
January 10th, 2008 at 9:12 AM
Fellatione Aabye Says:
“…LL encourages the use of MULTIPLE BOTS for camping and scamming ???
What does LL do with all those who generate scripts to STEAL Others money??? NOTHING … and even LL STAFF is applauding it …. by giving such tips ….
If LL wants to be The White Knight in Shiny Armour, The Morality Upkeeper … Try first to live by your own .. upon the resident ENFORCED RULES …. ”
Oh bejeebus are you out to lunch. First of all, neither Torley nor LL is “encouraging Multiple bots for camping and scamming,” or “applauding” the generation of scripts for stealing. They’re showing us how to log in with two alts simultaneously. Can this be abused by camping and scamming greaseballs? Sure, but so can LSL. Do you also want LL to stop helping us with LSL because people can use it to create orbiters and other griefing tools??
And secondly, do you seriously want LL to step into the role of Morality Enforcer? They haven’t taken that role on themselves, in fact they’ve been very reluctant to get involved in resident disputes at all. The ban on gambling and ageplay were required by US law, and the recent thing about banks seems to be an exception to the rule (motivated by concerns over the health of the LL economy). If you seriously want a Big Brother morality enforcer breathing down our necks, I’m happy to say that you and I exist in a totally different Second universe. Personally, I happy that LL shares tools with us and lets us figure out what to do with them.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:13 AM
Well, this could have been a helpful video, but, no longer, its gone
Some use multi accounts for helpful reason, we are not all campers!
Thanks to those of you who have seen it and now had it removed for the rest of us!
January 10th, 2008 at 9:13 AM
Oh, forgot to mention tech issues missed in the video.
COMPUTER POWER: Like Torley said, you’ll need either a dual core or quad-core system.
AFFINITY: It is best to call up the Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del) and right click on the SECONDLIFE.EXE program in PROCESSES and assign processor access for each version you run. That way, they’re not colliding on the same core.
GRAPHICS: Each version running will require immense graphics usage. So the faster and larger your graphics card, the better.
Trying this trick on a single-core system with a 128meg graphics card is a guaranteed system stopper. Dual core with 256meg graphics would be minimal configuration, and a quad-core with 320meg graphics or higher is ideal. And as Torley said, setting up your needs and then minimizing one of the screens saves immensely on system resources.
If I’ve missed anything, please feel free to append. : )
January 10th, 2008 at 9:18 AM
#78, it works just fine for me still
To those who said i went over the top or grumbled or bashed Torley, I only point out that the posts on the other blog noted that fully one third of the online figure are alts. They also point out the FACT that this is a strain on servers and results in lag. So *excuse me* for thinking it’s a rather bad idea, to encourage everyone to make and use more alts.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:21 AM
BTW, for the Mac users … the instructions are not QUITE right: you need to save it as an “application bundle” … best of luck!
January 10th, 2008 at 9:24 AM
Has anyone really looked at some of the responses about the whole bot and two viewer log in?? Two viewer log in runs the resources even harder. Are you going to sit there at a camp site and try to carry on three or more conversations between windows?? I dont know about you, but im and regular chat get me sometimes…ok the bot thing…HELLO the bots are on a HACKED viewer that limits the use of resources.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:26 AM
May I interject a reply to those who state that *gasp* this will be used to promote ALTS!
I have seen numerous people on SL condemn the use of alts, like it’s some great heresy to have more than one SL account. Where in the universe people come up with this opinionated idea is beyond me, but here are the facts:
Linden Lab condones, allows, is aware of and has posted that at LEAST 1/3 of all SL accounts are *known* alts. Many believe this figure to be as much as 50% or higher.
Alts have many different, LEGITIMATE uses. Having an Alt on Second Life is no different than having 4 different personalities in Guild Wars. Alts can have different purposes and uses. A merchant may have one alt to conduct business, another to run an office in a group, another to play a specific role in a group he has joined, and another to just toodle around in SL without being bothered by numerous IMs.
How many alts a person has, who those alts are, or how they are used is no one else’s business but the person who has it. It’s private information, to be told to whomever the person wants to tell.
So for the self-appointed alt-police out there who think that everyone who has an alt is dishonest or doing something “wrong”, please, wake up and smell the roses. As pointed out by several above, there is nothing wrong with logging multiple alts at the same time to perform necessary SL functions. It’s done all the time.
Alts are a perfectly legitimate form of SL activity, have legitimate uses, and are recognized by Linden Lab themselves as an acceptable form of play. Anyone who says differently is simply trying to enforce his/her personal opinions on others, and thusly are themselves in the wrong. Time for an attitude adjustment. Leave the anti-alt drama at home.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:27 AM
how do you do this for Mac Torley, please tell us, and i agree, if you dont want people camping and taking all your money, remove your chairs, duh, no brainer there, or do you really want people on your land camping because you want to boost your resident traffic numbers, make up your mind, if you want numbers you have to pay for it, and as soon as i learn how to do this, i am getting out my old computer and setting up as many alts as i can and camping all over SL tahnks to you guys that hve chairs and want traffic
January 10th, 2008 at 9:27 AM
@73 “The point is the lag problems, asset server problems and stability problems have little to do with how many people (or viewers) are simultaneously logged-in. It has to do with the server software, hardware and bugs in the viewers, So everyone complaining that multiple viewer logins create lag or stability issues really need to do some research in how the entire system really works and what really causes lag and problems (50 to 80% of the time it’s YOUR connection or computer.)”
We’ll ignore the completely made up statistic, but to say that the asset server problems, and stability issues are software and hardware issues server side and then to say it’s a problem with people’s connection and their own hardware makes absolutely no sense.
The connection, the local computer and the server side *are* the system, all of those need to function for the system as a whole to work.
The reasons for people wanting to log in with two accounts at the same time are flimsy to say the least. Reproducing bugs isn’t a good enough reason for an end user. Inventory transfers certainly aren’t a good enough reason and attending two events at the same time is an absurd reason.
Filming movies, I’ll give them that one but it’s hardly a must have facility.
There should be one login, then you select which avatar you want to play with. This adds an aspect of responsibility as to how people use their alts because if one avatar violates the TOS, all your avatars will pay the price.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:31 AM
@ 78: Katie what are you bashing people for? The video is still available!
Thanks for making me falsely think LL did care about his residents. So watch your video and stop bashing people who point out the other usages Torley forgot to mention.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:32 AM
“COMPUTER POWER: Like Torley said, you’ll need either a dual core or quad-core system. ”
Again if you use sleek viewer with any mid range quad or amd Phenom Black Version is only about 31,000 yen or i believe in us Moneys 270.00 ! Or a 64000 black version for about 22,000 yen or 170.00! Thats cheap enought to runn googles of Bots etc…..with sleek viewer. and itel quad are cheap as well. So In the real World sence they are AFORDABLE and plentful to do such action on sl with. Yes you are right but in the real worl d sence your a little off the mark
Usagi
January 10th, 2008 at 9:36 AM
I agree that this will work for film & I always wondered how people ran mult. viewers at the same time. I do have to agree with everyone though. I foresee a major outbreak of even more camping bots. Good to know as I have always been curious as to how people did it. Bad because people will abuse it. I am so torn…
January 10th, 2008 at 9:37 AM
@73 haha i love it nice one.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:40 AM
http://www.libsecondlife.org/wiki/Use_libSL_to_login_to_the_SL_grid
They do not use a HACKED viewer, they simply write their own.
Which btw doesn’t take more than 10 minutes for someone with any scripting or programming knowledge.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:41 AM
To 85: “The reasons for people wanting to log in with two accounts at the same time are flimsy to say the least.”
That may be your opinion. Reality is far different. Read some of the above posts from me and others that show how multiple logins can be used beneficially. Maybe you’ve just not taken the time to explore this area to see how beneficial this can be.
If you’re just a standard player, don’t merchant, don’t operate groups, don’t build or script, you may be right. Multiple logins might not be necessary. But if you do ANY of these stated things, being able to log in two alts at one time (one to work, one to test) is a real time-saver.
Making blanket generalizations is NEVER a good idea. (snicker) Humor aside, multiple logins can be a very valuable and time-saving function for heavy SL users. Let me illustrate.
SCRIPTING: I build something. Having trouble with a script. I also want to check permissions. Since the script works differently for others than it does for the creator, it necessitates using an alt to test it.
Sooo… I update the script. I transfer it to my alt via his profile. Log off. Log back in with the alt (we all know how long that takes). The alt tests it. Something still doesn’t work. I log off. Log/ back in with my scripter alt. Make a fix. Send it to my alt’s profile. Log back off. Log back in with the alt… (btw, relogs take all KINDS of system resources).
See the problem? On the other hand…
I log in with my scripter alt. Multi log with my tester alt. Fix the script. Give it directly to the tester. The tester finds a bug. My scripter immediately fixes it, hands him a new version. Still buggy. My scripter fixes it, hands it to the tester. Viola! It works! And not one relog!
BUILDING/MARKETING: I’ve just built a complex object. I need to test the permissions. It takes FOREVER for a creator to check the individual permissions on a complex object. Instead, I just call in my alt, hand him a copy, he quickly looks through the permissions listings. All is fine… ready to market!
PHOTO OPS: I need to take a photo with 2 or 3 people. None of my friends are currently online. NP! I call in 2 or 3 of my alts, compose the shot, snap! Done!
So as you can see Ciaran… needs for multiple logins are far from flimsy. This is a legitimate feature on SL that without good reason, a lot of people are prejudiced against. Such ones need to widen their field of view, drop the tunnel vision, and realize there is more to SL than their universe permits. ; )
January 10th, 2008 at 9:44 AM
Thank you Torely, I’ve known about this for a long time and it is very very handy for my scripting. I run Tri monitors here on a very very fast, high spec PC. This feature has been invaluable to me.
The only way to stop camping is to remove the traffic bonus places get… End of story.
Samantha
January 10th, 2008 at 9:47 AM
First of all, campers are not “taking money out of sl.” It makes it so those with basic subscriptions can get SOME minimal funds for use in sl. I have several friends who do that. And BTW, I spend around $100 USD in sl per month, so it ain’t me babe! But its terrible being completely broke all the time. Secondly, I am not sure I’d ever even be able to use it, but I would love to have the option-like someone said, it would sure be nice to have another av with the caemra-I can’t even see myself walk toward the camera-and, yes, I know there are followcams, but they are clumsy. It would be nice to be able to see the effect of stuff on your av from another av’s point of view. HOWEVER, I can’t get this to work. I followed the instruction in the tutorial (I am running a Mac under OS 10.5) and when I click on the icon to start another viewer, nothing happens. Anybody else gots this problem? Anybody know how to fix it? Thanks
January 10th, 2008 at 9:48 AM
@90 “They do not use a HACKED viewer, they simply write their own.
Which btw doesn’t take more than 10 minutes for someone with any scripting or programming knowledge.”
Oh wow, did not know that linden labs made that available. Learn something new every day dont ya.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:49 AM
shakeshead………stick ones head in the sand and pretend it doesnt exist right?
GRANT YOU. the practical uses are needed and should be allowed. But look at how someone posted about writing yoour own bot viewer? ABuse as some people have said is been going on for a long time withthe switching nothing new. But coming out with this mess is like the time philip linden told the general public how texture stealers were doing it in this round tail chat. How smart is this? maybe when times were not as unstable as they are with the game I wouldnt say anything. Likey many are saying here as well. Its about timing the release.
January 10th, 2008 at 9:50 AM
@ 91 What you just point out is that LL needs to fix things so using 2 alts or more simultaneously can only be used beneficially.
If you don’t use your alts