Second Life Havok4 Beta Preview Refreshed 2007-12-07
Friday, December 7th, 2007 at 9:43 PM by: Sidewinder LindenThe Second Life Beta Preview has been refreshed with our latest updates. We have now been running the Havok4 simulator on our internal Linden regions since the last refresh (”eating our own dog food”) and we will shortly be expanding the testing process in preparation for wider use of this new simulator.
Fixes and Enhancements include:
DEV-7152 Avatar is now positioned correctly when standing up from a low box or seat
DEV-7085 Trees are now created consistently and displayed consistently before simstate reload (previously trees may not have displayed correctly until the simstate was reloaded and the simulator restarted)
DEV-6505 Assisted flight is now consistent through region crossings (script actions are now correctly re-added after region crossing)
DEV-7044 Modified rigid body (”physics shape”) of trees to be tall and thin, to enable easier debugging (They are part of a no-collision group, so they don’t collide in-world - this is just a debugging aid change)
DEV-6985 Grass is now set to the right collision group
For information about the Havok4 Beta Preview, with ideas on what to test, please see the original blog post here:
http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/havok4-is-here-on-the-beta-grid/
In addition, there is an wiki that provides detailed information about the Havok4 project as well as detailed information about the new linkability rules:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Havok_4_Beta_Home
We are holding regular office hours to review your experiences with the Havok4 Beta Preview. Our office hours are posted here:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Regular_Havok4_Office_Hours_In-World
Regards,
Sidewinder Linden
Program Manager
PLEASE keep blog comments on this post on-topic for the Havok4 beta test process - thanks!
December 7th, 2007 at 9:48 PM
Glad to hear that Havoc-4 continues to progress. I’ll be in there testing my vehicles again shortly… I had some problems with inertia/friction with my water vehicles before, hopefully that will be ironed out. On the other hand, if havoc-4 will eliminate most if not all sim crashes, I wouldn’t mind rescripting my boats in exchange for stable sims.
December 7th, 2007 at 10:05 PM
@1 Atashi: There are still some vehicles oddities in the current simulator build. We will be focusing on vehicle fixes in the next phase, so do not assume that what you see on the beta preview is the final vehicle behaviors… We have instead been focusing on removing crash modes and working to be sure that avatar dynamics and building are solid. More vehicles are functional at this point than a month ago, but I would not be surprised to still see various vehicle issues. Please jira the issues you see (if you haven’t already jira’d them). We will soon be digging in on vehicle issues to get them as clean as we can.
Havok4 algorithms for physics calculations are fundamentally different than Havok1, so there will be some dynamics and behaviors that will be somewhat different. These may need some tinkering with your scripts to make the behaviors consistent. Havok4 is in many ways more accurate about the results. At the same time, we want to be sure that we have our part of the behaviors straightened out to not “be in your way” of having your vehicles work correctly on Havok4, resolving any bugs and behavioral strangeness that we can, without impacting on the quality of the Havok4 simulation.
Best regards,
Sidewinder
December 7th, 2007 at 10:45 PM
Are you going to test Havok 4 sims on the main grid?
If you get to that point. I can find one for you to test
December 7th, 2007 at 10:53 PM
Thank you for this update! progressing is very very important for this client! Good work!
December 8th, 2007 at 1:40 AM
In addition, there is an wiki that provides detailed information about the Havok4 project as well as detailed information about the new linkability rules:
http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Havok_4_Beta_Home
I went to this page, but didn’t see anything about linkability rules… am I just too tired, or is this the wrong link for them?
December 8th, 2007 at 1:40 AM
nevermind, I found them… lol
guess I was tired..
December 8th, 2007 at 2:31 AM
yaay thanks
December 8th, 2007 at 2:49 AM
I can’t wait for havoc 4!
It looks so promising.. I think it will be the best new thing in secondlife!
I like the new windlight skies too.. wish i could set my own default ones on my sim ^^
i hope it will be tested many times and will come out the best as ever!
December 8th, 2007 at 3:05 AM
Cant wait till the HAVOC is released on maingrid…
)
opens up soooo many more supercool possibillities
stocking up on RAM nessecary ?
December 8th, 2007 at 3:39 AM
The new Search.
I hated this new search.
Is good only for the big companies with the top 8 PAID ADs.
New people on the SL is the biggest commerce there and they will go only for this 8 top big ads.
The SL will loose a lot of users becouse a lot of business will broken. Very bad this Ideia of the pictures of the 8 top paid ads.
December 8th, 2007 at 3:52 AM
Sidewinder Linden : “We have now been running the Havok4 simulator on our internal Linden regions since the last refresh (”eating our own dog food”) and we will shortly be expanding the testing process in preparation for wider use of this new simulator.”
Does that mean that Havok4 enter the Main Grid with Hetgrid ?
December 8th, 2007 at 4:51 AM
Sidewinder please use hyperlinks in your blog posts!
December 8th, 2007 at 5:49 AM
Response to the “New Search” Edde made:
Look into it more. When searching for something its much more accurate based on key words than the old search. Do some comparison searches. I like it
Then again, i’m more of a visual person.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:27 AM
Well… looks like everything’s on the right track (or a collision course)… Havok 4, WindLight, Voice, New Search… what a feature crush! I wonder if they’ll all play nice…? I do hope so. The Grid and the metaverse as a whole are picking up again.
December 8th, 2007 at 7:28 AM
Not to mention Het-Grid! How’d I forget the glue that’s binding all the others together? Heh.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:15 AM
@11 Phil: “Does that mean that Havok4 enter the Main Grid with Hetgrid ?”
Yes, we are using HetGrid already to deploy Havok4 simulators alongside the current production simulator. The Havok4 deploy to Linden private properties was done using HetGrid, so in fact today we are running multiple versions of the Second Life simulator. You don’t yet see any Havok4 simulators because as a first phase we only deployed the Havok4 simulator to regions used by Linden Lab employees for internal purposes.
I will be blogging in the “not so distant future” to explain our next phase testing and roll-out plans… but for now let’s keep on hammering on the beta grid deploy of Havok4 to see what still needs work.
Thanks!
Sidewinder
December 8th, 2007 at 9:18 AM
@9 MrLunk: “stocking up on RAM nessecary ?”
The Havok4 simulator will not require more RAM on the viewer side once we deploy it more widely, since this update is a purely server-side enhancement. It does not use RAM on the viewer, since the physics calculations that we are updating run purely on the servers in our data centers.
/Sidewinder
December 8th, 2007 at 9:18 AM
Havok4 is lovely, just went test all my stuff, kinda messed up all tho all the impulses values and forces, I already fixed and improved (added new features) for havok4.
Now I wonder if those parameters change (impulses/forces) are definitive cos havok4 tuned scripts aren’t really working good in havok1. Can a linden give some hint about this? I don’t want to re-tune all my scripts a lot times really.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:25 AM
@12 Ahab: OOPS! Hyperlinks back in the post. Thanks for catching that - I guess that’s what I get for blogging late… /Sidewinder
December 8th, 2007 at 9:32 AM
@18 Aria: We are still tuning the behavior of Havok4, so please do not assume that “magic numbers” related to impulse values and forces are finalized yet. In general you can expect that Havok4 will respond similarly, but in some cases somewhat differently to impulses, since the internal simulation is performed much differently (in most cases more accurately).
If there are particular LSL calls that are misbehaving or producing very different results, please enter a jira for us so that we know about the specific issues. We will be addressing those that we can (in other words those that do not break other important things).
Regards,
Sidewinder
December 8th, 2007 at 9:49 AM
Is there any work being done on the Sim wall pains?
And ill be testing the current version soon.
December 8th, 2007 at 9:54 AM
This all sounds absolutely *wonderful* - I have many residents and available regions eager, nay, *pleading* to help with Havok4 main grid testing.
If you would benefit from a large band of friendly, dedicated, resilient, “we can break anything and report how we did it concisely” can-do folks for early rollout testing, please let me know!
Desmond Shang
Caledon
December 8th, 2007 at 9:55 AM
Thanks, well yes they are indeed producing very different results, not a issue for me, cos I’m active and I can tune and send updates, but if other stuff uses my tricks are indeed broken too.. ok I’ll have to submit a lot in the jira I guess
, But can I drop to any Linden those misbehaving objects? So they can see themself the huge difference.
December 8th, 2007 at 10:25 AM
Hm I guess I can’t check on DEV-* bugs on Jira, but I’m wondering if DEV-6505 is fixed. The flight assist problem has to do with buoyancy, right? I’ve noticed that vehicle buoyancy getting out of control when flying an airplane from a H4 sim into a H1 sim (the vehicle buoyancy becomes so powerful that the airplane is rocketed into the sky, with no chance of lowering to the original elevation).
Oh well, I can’t comment to the your DEV issue #, so I guess I’ll add my $0.02 to the monstrosity that is SVC-722. =P
December 8th, 2007 at 1:46 PM
Sidewinder - sounds like you and your group are very focused and are using a well thoughout plan. Please dont rush your testing, we’d rather have peace of mind than features. Between you and Torley, i’ll be a great release, just dont rush it! Maybe Torley can put up a video explaining some of the enhancements just prior to release. Get some Sleep, wait, no - i mean COFFEE!
December 8th, 2007 at 2:20 PM
It would be nice the beta-viewer would be upgraded soon or later. I’m playing with havok a bit, but mostly use the beta-grid for testing out my sculpty experiments.
Currently some of my more complex sculpties suffer from the lossless bug on the beta-grid, that has been fixed in the release candidate now. (1.18.6.0)
December 8th, 2007 at 2:45 PM
Is there an extended tutorial anywhere that will explain how to use the Jira if you’re not a developer or programmer of any kind?
Something step-by-step. I’ve logged into something called” Dashboard - Second Life Issues (BETA)”. I don’t even know if that’s the place to report issues. The various links on that page seem to indicate I need about 6 months training to use it.
How about a form to fill out? that might help.
December 8th, 2007 at 3:14 PM
@26: Actually you can use the 1.18.6.0RC client (or any of the Windlight clients) on the beta grid, by adding the switch “-loginuri https://login.aditi.lindenlab.com/cgi-bin/login.cgi“ when launching the viewer.
December 8th, 2007 at 3:23 PM
well please…have fun discussing these issues but it is saturday nite and sl is not performing up to the standards even it should expect…how sad is that?
December 8th, 2007 at 3:42 PM
I blame you LL. I downloaded the most recent version of SL, and now I can’t even fricken play anymore >:O
December 8th, 2007 at 3:57 PM
@28: Thanks for that, I’m on the beta grid now with Windlight
Nice!
December 8th, 2007 at 3:59 PM
ok now search has reverted to the old search…are the people at sl total fools or what? please sl go for some outside leadership in key areas…the present people are not capable running this thing
December 8th, 2007 at 4:44 PM
@32 Eclaire: Please do not post personal attacks.
In answer to what I suspect is your question, the Havok4 beta viewer is not the most current release. We purposefully did not refresh the beta viewer on the last public release for three reasons:
1) The viewer has no involvement with server-side physics, and the Havok4 project is about implementing new server-side physics
2) We were waiting for a couple of issue resolutions in the main viewer code before updating the beta preview viewer (and because of #1 the specifics of the viewer have very little to do with testing Havok4).
3) You can connect to the beta preview with any current viewer version, as was commented above, so the one we provide (in the case of the Havok4 project, since it is server-side work) is really just a convenience for folks who do not want to tinker with viewer command lines.
Regards,
Sidewinder
December 8th, 2007 at 4:58 PM
@21 Aeper: Which “sim wall pains” are you asking about? Are you asking about transitions from sim to sim, where sometimes things are strange for a second or two, especially with lots of scripted attachments? These issues will not be directly addressed by the Havok4 project. I believe they are being looked at by other teams. /Sidewinder
December 8th, 2007 at 5:02 PM
dear sidewinder…i apologize for what you saw as a personal “attack” but the point is that your reliability is below what most sl users see as reasonable and you might step back and think about what that means personally and professionally
December 8th, 2007 at 5:17 PM
Ya know what’s sad is that some don’t even have a clue that by getting Havok4 working it will be a major step towards more stability on the grid when it is implemented.More reliablilty and stability is one of the reasons to upgrade to Havok4. Besides its on the beta grid and not causing any main grid problems.Why complain about something that will make SL better for all.
December 8th, 2007 at 5:38 PM
@36 yes we do have a clue…and reliability cannot come fast enough for sl…have you noticed that big brands are investing in other virtual worlds?
December 8th, 2007 at 6:27 PM
@ 37,35, and 32 : please follow the “big brands” and invest you complaints elsewhere.
Merry Christmas SL !!!
Keep up the hard work Sidewinder!!
December 8th, 2007 at 7:42 PM
I like Sidewinder
December 8th, 2007 at 11:01 PM
Thanks for replying to comments, Sidewinder, even the snarky ones.
It shows lots of dedication, and is appreciated. (Complaints are just louder by their nature.)
December 9th, 2007 at 4:12 AM
I like icecream!
December 9th, 2007 at 10:17 AM
I wonder how “are you total fools” is NOT a personal attack….
Kudos, Sidewinder, for answering all those questions. I think I’ll have a go and check what Windlight and Havok4 together will do…
December 9th, 2007 at 12:39 PM
ok here’s the deal…sl has become something totally unexpected..and now the people at sl have a responsibility to every one of us to deliver…get it?
December 9th, 2007 at 1:33 PM
@43 Eclaire: Please contact me directly to discuss the issues you vaguely allude to, as they are not specific to the Havok4 Beta Preview and are off-topic. You can reach me in-world (if you re-activate your account) or via email at sidewinder (at) lindenlab.com.
December 9th, 2007 at 2:26 PM
From reading i understand LSL Collission functionallity is broken in the current version. I would like to know how the collissions in a linked set , worn on the avatar. will behave under havok 4 and secretly hoping you come up with a model where i can tell a headshot from a shot in the foot.
December 9th, 2007 at 3:12 PM
Ever since the latest update I have been experiencing a slight rotation to the right in my movement controls without touching my controls. The avatar is rotating to the right in vers small increments which negates rotating my camera controls to the front of my avatar. As soon as I get rotated around, the avatar moves and the view rotates around to the back of my avatar again. This also will cause any drop down menus to disappear before I can make a choice. How do I fix this?
Dilynrae
December 9th, 2007 at 3:26 PM
And with that being said, I am completely awed at the look of the Windlight Viewer. I understand every new thing takes time to work out all the bugs. Something that might work on a stand alone test server might not work on the main grid. People should keep in mind that while we all want stability and less lag, its computer based and just like your home computer, the more processes there are running, the slower things get. I am running a 2.4gHz Core2Duo coupled with 2GB of DDR3 PC6400 RAM and twin GeForce 8600 512MB Video cards in an SLI set up. I am relatively lag free, but its because I did my part and upgraded my system to handle SL. SL is NOT responsible for your experience if you have a 4 year old POS computer with 348 MB of RAM… LOL
Keep up the good work SL… There are a lot of us that know you are trying to make it enjoyable for us.
Dily
December 9th, 2007 at 3:48 PM
Shame you cant manage to make it enjoyable though, staying online might be nice at least
What happened this weekend its Dire
December 9th, 2007 at 10:47 PM
Do you anticipate that some current things in Sl will be broken in H4 after it is released to the whole grid and just have to be discarded?
From what I understand, H4 will allow a lot more things to be created that H1 doesn’t allow. Is that the gist of what H4 is all about. or are there going to be other payoffs?
Sorry to be so technically out of the loop on H4, but I’m trying to understand what it really mean to the average resident in terms of a better in-world experience.
December 10th, 2007 at 4:06 AM
Hi Sidewinder,
I know this is off-topic but can you ask to some your colleagues why are you delaying the October 2007 Economic Key Metrics?
Tks
December 10th, 2007 at 6:23 AM
I would be interested in knowing how accurate the avatar collision model is in Havok4?
December 10th, 2007 at 8:30 AM
@51 adamo: Oops my apologies for that last post… Typo on data entry did not find you. Please IM me directly. You have made a direct accusation of financial behavior that I would like to discuss with you, I will be deleting your post, as it is far off-topic, but would be happy to discuss this with you to have you find the right vehicle for this discussion.
Please note that Linden Lab does act on abuse complaints as appropriate to the findings. Linden Lab does not notify you of the results of an abuse investigation (and this is quite consistent with other service providers. Just because you do not hear about actions taken against someone you have filed an abuse report about, does not mean that there is nothing in their record or that no action was taken.
/Sidewinder
December 10th, 2007 at 8:40 AM
@51 Tenebrous: Please see the links above in the post with Havok4 project information. The best way to get your questions about the avatar collission model answered is likely to attend one of our in-world office hours, as I suspect that this will end up being more of a conversation… The schedule for office hours is here, and Havok4 office hours are open to anyone to attend: http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Regular_Havok4_Office_Hours_In-World
December 11th, 2007 at 11:52 AM
I just recently (today) DL and installed BETA..when I try log in I get a msg…”Unable to transform: ‘fetch fresh inventory’. Is this because the main grid is still down? Do I use my existing SL name? help me!
December 11th, 2007 at 12:00 PM
i get that too ^
December 11th, 2007 at 12:39 PM
@54 Harley and 55 Lozlo: I believe that message is caused by the Second Life main system still being offline. /Sidewinder
December 11th, 2007 at 12:41 PM
The notice says outages till 2pm pst,that’s Sl time.I gather the update is going ok so give it another hour.Hopefully it will not show those errors,but you never know.No! never change your name,unless you have two names.Login with the newest one and let to old one relax awhile*smiles.You could try deleting the secondlife files in documents and settings.NOT IN PROGRAMS.This means setting up the preferences again but hey it is one heck of a refesh,and less crashing after.
December 11th, 2007 at 1:24 PM
I’m testing a beta version of RL right now - it seems quite stable and I can buy, sell and move about with ease. The graphics are amazing, the only downside… too many zombies!
Seriously, good work LL.
I’m loving Windlight and Havok4 is on my ‘to do’ list along with sorting out my inventory, understanding the new search (5 year plan) and working out why some region owners obviously use bots to increase traffic count which in turn synthetically inflates rents and why LL will not do anything about it (I have sent numerous abuse reports over several weeks) even though it is clearly a violation of the ToS and . (IM me in-world for LMs to visit the “zombies in the hole” or the “zombies in the skybox”)
I did mention Havok4 didn’t I?
Great - another on topic post - whew!