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	<title>Comments on: Havok4 Preview Updated and Open</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/</link>
	<description>By Linden Lab</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 05:17:18 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Big Prim Problem &#171; Second Life Conceptual Creations</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-495959</link>
		<dc:creator>The Big Prim Problem &#171; Second Life Conceptual Creations</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Oct 2007 13:18:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-495959</guid>
		<description>[...]  The Lindens have rently been trying out the Havok4 physics engine on the beta grid, and have rently taken the physics offline there, and put it back again a few days later&#8230;.. http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  The Lindens have rently been trying out the Havok4 physics engine on the beta grid, and have rently taken the physics offline there, and put it back again a few days later&#8230;.. <a href="http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/" rel="nofollow">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/</a> [...]</p>
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		<title>By: misael</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-494715</link>
		<dc:creator>misael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2007 17:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-494715</guid>
		<description>i am brazilian 
please 
one brazilian talk</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i am brazilian<br />
please<br />
one brazilian talk</p>
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		<title>By: Darling Brody</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-494081</link>
		<dc:creator>Darling Brody</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 22:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-494081</guid>
		<description>Andrew Linden,

Many of the old faithful scripted objects are not responding normaly.

llMoveToTarget objects start spinning when they are moved.  This is going to mess up all the existing flying pets and other objects that relied on the object staying upright by itself.

Elevators that use llSetBuoyancy to lift a numbe rof people together do not work.  Testing shows llSetBuoyancy can be -1,0,+1 but that is all.  To lift a number of people together requires a lot more buoyancy than that.

One of my teleporters uses buoyancy instead of warppos to get you over the 768 limit for a realiy private skybox.  On the beta grid it cant even lift my feet off the ground. Looks like I might have to rename my skybox to groundbox. LOL

Attachments that use impulases, buoyancy, and movetotarget are also behaving strangly.  They seem to treat the avatar as if they are nonphysical until the avatar starts moving.  This makes previously smooth fligh assist scripts jerky as hell.  It breaks the movelock alltogether.  

I also have an object that creates an instant crash in the beta grid.  Region offline immedeiatly!  The object is harmless on the main grid.  IM me in world and I'll show you.  

It is wonderfull that people can't crash a region with physical objects anymore.  It is even better that physical object spam will not lag avatar moment to hell.  I am sure the in world lindens will be overjoyed at not having to clean up the sandbox all the time.  As will those of use who use them.  Good job so far. :)


Darling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Linden,</p>
<p>Many of the old faithful scripted objects are not responding normaly.</p>
<p>llMoveToTarget objects start spinning when they are moved.  This is going to mess up all the existing flying pets and other objects that relied on the object staying upright by itself.</p>
<p>Elevators that use llSetBuoyancy to lift a numbe rof people together do not work.  Testing shows llSetBuoyancy can be -1,0,+1 but that is all.  To lift a number of people together requires a lot more buoyancy than that.</p>
<p>One of my teleporters uses buoyancy instead of warppos to get you over the 768 limit for a realiy private skybox.  On the beta grid it cant even lift my feet off the ground. Looks like I might have to rename my skybox to groundbox. LOL</p>
<p>Attachments that use impulases, buoyancy, and movetotarget are also behaving strangly.  They seem to treat the avatar as if they are nonphysical until the avatar starts moving.  This makes previously smooth fligh assist scripts jerky as hell.  It breaks the movelock alltogether.  </p>
<p>I also have an object that creates an instant crash in the beta grid.  Region offline immedeiatly!  The object is harmless on the main grid.  IM me in world and I&#8217;ll show you.  </p>
<p>It is wonderfull that people can&#8217;t crash a region with physical objects anymore.  It is even better that physical object spam will not lag avatar moment to hell.  I am sure the in world lindens will be overjoyed at not having to clean up the sandbox all the time.  As will those of use who use them.  Good job so far.  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Darling.</p>
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		<title>By: Dean Ashby</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-494064</link>
		<dc:creator>Dean Ashby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 21:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-494064</guid>
		<description>Due to comments closed everywhere ..one thing to the VAT discussion and the "no-effect" on SL-members ... i got 14 offers to buy 23 islands in 2 days cause ppl dont want to spend anymore money on havin FUN!! not sell ..
Btw im not in Real Estate lol ... thx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Due to comments closed everywhere ..one thing to the VAT discussion and the &#8220;no-effect&#8221; on SL-members &#8230; i got 14 offers to buy 23 islands in 2 days cause ppl dont want to spend anymore money on havin FUN!! not sell ..<br />
Btw im not in Real Estate lol &#8230; thx</p>
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		<title>By: Storyof Oh</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493552</link>
		<dc:creator>Storyof Oh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Oct 2007 00:09:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493552</guid>
		<description>...then we were one.....
interesting the 9 million user claim has disappeared, now just over 1 million log ins in last 60 days...4l k online ...allowing for alts and crashes on a global basis that isn't many.
Ok off topic but no comments open elsewhere
Havok is so like the UK havoc...carnage, damage ..desolation...chaos...confusion.......yup SL all right :)
the sunset on the water is very pretty.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;then we were one&#8230;..<br />
interesting the 9 million user claim has disappeared, now just over 1 million log ins in last 60 days&#8230;4l k online &#8230;allowing for alts and crashes on a global basis that isn&#8217;t many.<br />
Ok off topic but no comments open elsewhere<br />
Havok is so like the UK havoc&#8230;carnage, damage ..desolation&#8230;chaos&#8230;confusion&#8230;&#8230;.yup SL all right  <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
the sunset on the water is very pretty&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Gaius Goodliffe</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493429</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaius Goodliffe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 17:45:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493429</guid>
		<description>@6 Andrew Linden: That makes perfect sense, fix that before upping that limit to prevent vehicles from getting more expensive to save/load.  I have one question, though -- do avatars sitting on an object make it more complex to save/load?  If not, it would be nice if we could at least lose the last part of the old formula "31 minus one for each avatar sitting on the object".  It's painful having to lose two prims for each passenger (one for the passenger seat, and another for the avatar that will be using it), especially when you make vehicles with a touring or otherwise social focus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@6 Andrew Linden: That makes perfect sense, fix that before upping that limit to prevent vehicles from getting more expensive to save/load.  I have one question, though &#8212; do avatars sitting on an object make it more complex to save/load?  If not, it would be nice if we could at least lose the last part of the old formula &#8220;31 minus one for each avatar sitting on the object&#8221;.  It&#8217;s painful having to lose two prims for each passenger (one for the passenger seat, and another for the avatar that will be using it), especially when you make vehicles with a touring or otherwise social focus.</p>
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		<title>By: Arcadian Meili</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493318</link>
		<dc:creator>Arcadian Meili</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 11:21:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493318</guid>
		<description>Not much news in it - so poor movements. Thought that Havoke 4 was supposed to change that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not much news in it - so poor movements. Thought that Havoke 4 was supposed to change that.</p>
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		<title>By: concerned</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493197</link>
		<dc:creator>concerned</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:44:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493197</guid>
		<description>@77.c I believe that an upgrade to havok has been at least 18 months coming to my knowledge and probably a lot longer.It was originally going to be havok 2 upgrade but i think its fair to stick with 4 now as a lot of bug testing is going on so obviously its been incorperated to a standard that will improve lag and sim stability.

By time they would retest everything to get to 5 havok will have new updates so what i think we need is to get this upgrade in place then this will have caught up a lot and newer upgrades hopefully will be less work to test and a lot of lessons learned.

If SL was like halflife 2 etc where you just play through then physics would be much easier to test then i would the latest versions but in a live world where you can build link cut script etc you will always be chasing because debugging if that much harder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@77.c I believe that an upgrade to havok has been at least 18 months coming to my knowledge and probably a lot longer.It was originally going to be havok 2 upgrade but i think its fair to stick with 4 now as a lot of bug testing is going on so obviously its been incorperated to a standard that will improve lag and sim stability.</p>
<p>By time they would retest everything to get to 5 havok will have new updates so what i think we need is to get this upgrade in place then this will have caught up a lot and newer upgrades hopefully will be less work to test and a lot of lessons learned.</p>
<p>If SL was like halflife 2 etc where you just play through then physics would be much easier to test then i would the latest versions but in a live world where you can build link cut script etc you will always be chasing because debugging if that much harder.</p>
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		<title>By: Coventina Dalgleish</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493196</link>
		<dc:creator>Coventina Dalgleish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 03:42:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493196</guid>
		<description>Well SL made the NBC network news tonight showing how students use it as a virtual classroom. This was a very nice piece, unfortunately they did not mention that your question might or might not be answered because of lag.

In reply to the person who answered my last post that with havok 4 they are TRYING to make it more stable. Well I get up every morning and flap my arms as fast and hard as I can in an attempt to fly, I have never lifted 1mm off the floor. Some things are just not meant to be. As long as we have real time writes to hard drives you will see lag dependent on concurrency. It seems every sim crossing and teleport causes this action.

Past performance (very little) is no guarantee of future profits or performance.

I also am not convinced that havok 4 will add the performance that the voice system has removed.

And to you who are tired of listening to those of us who voice complaints, every update since 6.0 has increased bugs and problems. This is a pretty bad track record of performance and if  many had not made good friends here I am sure we would be observing a great wasteland as the strength of the game is in the world wide friends that are created.

It would appear to an outside observer that there is a serious problem with the architecture of the base design. It has been proved many times that this structure has a limited ability to scale.

In closing why do the same problems (after you fix them)  repeat, scripting errors, repeating inventory problems, it seems someone has a pet project to re enter code that does not function.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well SL made the NBC network news tonight showing how students use it as a virtual classroom. This was a very nice piece, unfortunately they did not mention that your question might or might not be answered because of lag.</p>
<p>In reply to the person who answered my last post that with havok 4 they are TRYING to make it more stable. Well I get up every morning and flap my arms as fast and hard as I can in an attempt to fly, I have never lifted 1mm off the floor. Some things are just not meant to be. As long as we have real time writes to hard drives you will see lag dependent on concurrency. It seems every sim crossing and teleport causes this action.</p>
<p>Past performance (very little) is no guarantee of future profits or performance.</p>
<p>I also am not convinced that havok 4 will add the performance that the voice system has removed.</p>
<p>And to you who are tired of listening to those of us who voice complaints, every update since 6.0 has increased bugs and problems. This is a pretty bad track record of performance and if  many had not made good friends here I am sure we would be observing a great wasteland as the strength of the game is in the world wide friends that are created.</p>
<p>It would appear to an outside observer that there is a serious problem with the architecture of the base design. It has been proved many times that this structure has a limited ability to scale.</p>
<p>In closing why do the same problems (after you fix them)  repeat, scripting errors, repeating inventory problems, it seems someone has a pet project to re enter code that does not function.</p>
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		<title>By: Corvaire Wind</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493115</link>
		<dc:creator>Corvaire Wind</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Oct 2007 00:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://lindenlab.wordpress.com/2007/10/05/havok4-preview-updated-and-open/#comment-493115</guid>
		<description>a) Has anyone tested the "w00t" script yet? (I made a bowling game that uses it.)

b) Any chance of using "current" pw's to log in to beta?.. PW's I create are very complex and aren't written down for later references.

c) Any reason we are not just going to Havoc 5? we could be doing all this testing on the newest version intead of having to do it down the line? (that's a curiousity, not a complaint.. I swear lol.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a) Has anyone tested the &#8220;w00t&#8221; script yet? (I made a bowling game that uses it.)</p>
<p>b) Any chance of using &#8220;current&#8221; pw&#8217;s to log in to beta?.. PW&#8217;s I create are very complex and aren&#8217;t written down for later references.</p>
<p>c) Any reason we are not just going to Havoc 5? we could be doing all this testing on the newest version intead of having to do it down the line? (that&#8217;s a curiousity, not a complaint.. I swear lol.)</p>
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