Comments on: Questions About VAT? http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/ By Linden Lab Tue, 02 Dec 2008 05:53:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=MU hourly 1 By: Muzicole Undertone http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488848 Muzicole Undertone Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:42:33 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488848 How's that work then? Perhaps since you're paying it to LL... As far as I know, SL companies like SL Exchange and presumably Azure and so on work by using an avatar handle. L$ transactions between avatars are not taxed... We won't be paying VAT on items we buy through SLX because they are actually L$ transactions between the customer and an 'avatar' called Exchange Street. With Azure land you pay tier to a little gadget on the ground of each parcel. I imagine that must work like any other object that you pay in SL and is therefore not taxable. How’s that work then? Perhaps since you’re paying it to LL… As far as I know, SL companies like SL Exchange and presumably Azure and so on work by using an avatar handle. L$ transactions between avatars are not taxed… We won’t be paying VAT on items we buy through SLX because they are actually L$ transactions between the customer and an ‘avatar’ called Exchange Street. With Azure land you pay tier to a little gadget on the ground of each parcel. I imagine that must work like any other object that you pay in SL and is therefore not taxable.

]]> By: concerned http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488847 concerned Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:40:46 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488847 See lindens dont take money from your lindens only from lindens you have sold but all the money i pay my tier are from lindens sold,so it will be same with azure you pay them lindens they sell those lindens and it becomes taxable.Will LL offer an option for tier to be paid direct from l$ well that would be to easy for them. See lindens dont take money from your lindens only from lindens you have sold but all the money i pay my tier are from lindens sold,so it will be same with azure you pay them lindens they sell those lindens and it becomes taxable.Will LL offer an option for tier to be paid direct from l$ well that would be to easy for them.

]]> By: U M http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488845 U M Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:38:31 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488845 @96 don`t get me wrong if a tax should be collected and it provents a company ( LL ) from getting in to legal problems then shouldnt they follow locat regulations? If said users are in EU locations? @96 don`t get me wrong if a tax should be collected and it provents a company ( LL ) from getting in to legal problems then shouldnt they follow locat regulations? If said users are in EU locations?

]]> By: concerned http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488842 concerned Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:36:32 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488842 @95 i pay my tier in L4 but its still being taxed @95 i pay my tier in L4 but its still being taxed

]]> By: concerned http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488841 concerned Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:35:57 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488841 @94 it would be illegal for tax to be collected for a country and not passed back to that country but you'r statment didnt suggest what tax you have been paying if you have been paying tax then yes its wrong to tax 1 region and not another. @94 it would be illegal for tax to be collected for a country and not passed back to that country but you’r statment didnt suggest what tax you have been paying if you have been paying tax then yes its wrong to tax 1 region and not another.

]]> By: Muzicole Undertone http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488840 Muzicole Undertone Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:35:34 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488840 Even if Azure were EU based (dunno if they are or not) you pay your tiers in L$. L$ are not taxable, only 'real' currency. Even if Azure were EU based (dunno if they are or not) you pay your tiers in L$. L$ are not taxable, only ‘real’ currency.

]]> By: Babu Babeli http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488839 Babu Babeli Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:34:37 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488839 First of All I don't think what LL is saying about VAT is correct at all. I think this is just a hoodwink to fill some coffers a little more because they see the difference in exchange rate with the constantly plummeting USD compared to Euro and Sterling, but they don't realize that we get equally less numbers paid here for equalent work. Secondly, LL has no clue what it is going to get into once it tries to charge us vat. i am sure, if it does so, it would eventually regret. European Laws, especially British go an extra length to safeguard consumers rights. LL doesn't have the clue what it would mean to get into European waters. Learn a lesson from Microsoft. Just to mention a few: 1. downtime would enable a european customer to demand a pay-back of the total price or part at least. Because Goods/Services were not delivered as contracted. 2. LL cannot add in its TOS that downtime cannot be paid back. It will be equalent of saying that Services will not be delievered in Contract Small Print, and will easily be labelled as Scam in any British Court causing even bigger problem for SL. You cannot sell a product/service with a contract that says the former may not be delivered, well, at least in Britain. 3. The above is not restricted to downtime only but also to inventory loss, and other issues as well. 4. LL may be liable for paying interest on our L$ balances that we keep inworld, since that acts as current account (we do have access to spend money but the money is kept in SL). And the Base rate will be of Bank of England. Same goes with USD Balances. 5. A resident may challenge and get a decree to nullify all changes they made in TOS after the first time he/she joined SL. Once a contract has taken place, it cannot be changed and LL methopd of forcing changes in TOS by not allowing access (log in) further makes it nullifiable in the eyes of Law. In simple words TOS cannot be changed every other day, and if they are changed, LL cannot press EU Residents to accept the changes and block their access untill they do. A Contract is two sided, not one forcing on other all the time. To change contract, LL will have to offer either to accept the new terms volunatarily, or continue to operate in previous TOS, or end the contract by paying back damages, and then offering to reopen service under new TOS. 5. Blocking Log in of a customer who does not accept new TOS, may result in LL paying damages, court fees and accepting to let customer operate under previous TOS. 6. LL must provide Vat Reciepts to its European customers monthly detailing what was charged and include its VAT Number. It cannot just say willy nilly that VAT is charged. anyway, and how fair is it that LL charges us US tax already and then charges VAT on top of it on the amount that includes a tax already. Wow, the new innovative theory of Compound Taxation fresh from LL. enough said, but I still believe they are lying or at least ill-informed. LL Service is based in US, the host servers are in US, how the heck VAT can be charged on it. LL is not the only service. I use numerous US based online services including financial ones connecting me to Wall Street and Funds which are the house of accountants and financials, and none ever made this stupid claim of charging me VAT. And, I am not alone, I am sure many readers will share with what I am saying. How many times before you were ever asked to pay VAT by a US Service Provider? NILL! There you go. LL is just trying to trick us out for a little more money I guess. First of All I don’t think what LL is saying about VAT is correct at all. I think this is just a hoodwink to fill some coffers a little more because they see the difference in exchange rate with the constantly plummeting USD compared to Euro and Sterling, but they don’t realize that we get equally less numbers paid here for equalent work.

Secondly, LL has no clue what it is going to get into once it tries to charge us vat. i am sure, if it does so, it would eventually regret. European Laws, especially British go an extra length to safeguard consumers rights. LL doesn’t have the clue what it would mean to get into European waters. Learn a lesson from Microsoft. Just to mention a few:
1. downtime would enable a european customer to demand a pay-back of the total price or part at least. Because Goods/Services were not delivered as contracted.
2. LL cannot add in its TOS that downtime cannot be paid back. It will be equalent of saying that Services will not be delievered in Contract Small Print, and will easily be labelled as Scam in any British Court causing even bigger problem for SL. You cannot sell a product/service with a contract that says the former may not be delivered, well, at least in Britain.
3. The above is not restricted to downtime only but also to inventory loss, and other issues as well.
4. LL may be liable for paying interest on our L$ balances that we keep inworld, since that acts as current account (we do have access to spend money but the money is kept in SL). And the Base rate will be of Bank of England. Same goes with USD Balances.
5. A resident may challenge and get a decree to nullify all changes they made in TOS after the first time he/she joined SL. Once a contract has taken place, it cannot be changed and LL methopd of forcing changes in TOS by not allowing access (log in) further makes it nullifiable in the eyes of Law. In simple words TOS cannot be changed every other day, and if they are changed, LL cannot press EU Residents to accept the changes and block their access untill they do. A Contract is two sided, not one forcing on other all the time. To change contract, LL will have to offer either to accept the new terms volunatarily, or continue to operate in previous TOS, or end the contract by paying back damages, and then offering to reopen service under new TOS.
5. Blocking Log in of a customer who does not accept new TOS, may result in LL paying damages, court fees and accepting to let customer operate under previous TOS.
6. LL must provide Vat Reciepts to its European customers monthly detailing what was charged and include its VAT Number. It cannot just say willy nilly that VAT is charged.

anyway, and how fair is it that LL charges us US tax already and then charges VAT on top of it on the amount that includes a tax already. Wow, the new innovative theory of Compound Taxation fresh from LL.

enough said, but I still believe they are lying or at least ill-informed. LL Service is based in US, the host servers are in US, how the heck VAT can be charged on it. LL is not the only service. I use numerous US based online services including financial ones connecting me to Wall Street and Funds which are the house of accountants and financials, and none ever made this stupid claim of charging me VAT. And, I am not alone, I am sure many readers will share with what I am saying. How many times before you were ever asked to pay VAT by a US Service Provider? NILL! There you go. LL is just trying to trick us out for a little more money I guess.

]]> By: U M http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488837 U M Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:32:25 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488837 People saying its unfair in the EU. What about us Japanese users? We have been paying any where between 112 yen to 130 yen to the USA for over 3 years ( in my case ). Thats for tiers and years fees. Now i do feel for that are being taxed and have bought islands. But thats how things work in the Real World. What LL did in a slipping this in last min was not right. but then again what you expect? This is so typical of them. Do you expect anything else from them? So use to this after 3 years and the older users on sl should too. It still doesnt give LL the right to just say its TAX TIME!.......... But thats how life in on SL always expect the unexpected.......... U sagi M usashi People saying its unfair in the EU. What about us Japanese users? We have been paying any where between 112 yen to 130 yen to the USA for over 3 years ( in my case ). Thats for tiers and years fees. Now i do feel for that are being taxed and have bought islands. But thats how things work in the Real World. What LL did in a slipping this in last min was not right. but then again what you expect? This is so typical of them. Do you expect anything else from them? So use to this after 3 years and the older users on sl should too. It still doesnt give LL the right to just say its TAX TIME!………. But thats how life in on SL always expect the unexpected……….

U sagi M usashi

]]> By: concerned http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488836 concerned Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:32:18 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488836 Azure might be a freer option,what if Azure are european based though you can be sure the cost will be passed on Azure might be a freer option,what if Azure are european based though you can be sure the cost will be passed on

]]> By: Muzicole Undertone http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488835 Muzicole Undertone Sat, 29 Sep 2007 04:30:24 +0000 http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/09/28/questions-about-vat/#comment-488835 Even if Azure land is more expensive, it's just 'cleaner' ;) And surely it's better to pay Azure, so they can perhaps reduce their prices, rather than LL and the EU? I have no loyalty to Azure btw, just from what I've seen... Isn't some Azure land double primmed? Even if Azure land is more expensive, it’s just ‘cleaner’ ;)

And surely it’s better to pay Azure, so they can perhaps reduce their prices, rather than LL and the EU?

I have no loyalty to Azure btw, just from what I’ve seen…

Isn’t some Azure land double primmed?

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