Second Life Downtime Scheduled for 9/19
Wednesday, September 12th, 2007 at 5:20 PM by: Joshua LindenSecond Life will be closed for maintenance on September 19, 2007. The exact time and duration of the work is still being determined, but we will make sure it falls between 6am-12noon Pacific (13:00-19:00 GMT).
The bulk of the work is hardware related, and we are working on making sure that we have enough time for all of the required work while trying to keep the duration to a minimum. Stay tuned to this post for the latest details.
There will be minor server-side software updates deployed during the downtime, and we will follow up with a rolling restart of all Second Life simulators later in the day to pick up some infrastructure updates and bug fixes. I’ll update this blog post in the next day or so with the list.
Reminder: Subscribe to the Second Life Downtime Calendar for updates!
[UPDATE 9/13: The beta grid will be offline at the same time, unfortunately, as its hardware is affected by the same work.]
[UPDATE 9/17: Due to the duration of the hardware work, we do not expect the full downtime to be complete before 11am at the earliest, to give sufficient time for verifying correct behavior on all systems before we open up the doors. I'm going to keep 6am-12noon on the calendar as a maximum expected window, which gives us time to react in case something goes wrong. However, I do expect that we'll be done sooner than that.]
[UPDATE 9/18: Due to issues discovered during continued testing, we're not planning any code updates during the outage tomorrow, so the work is now limited to the hardware work also mentioned here. After the hardware work is complete we'll be doing a little bit of cleanup and testing before opening Second Life. We expect logins to be re-enabled by about 10am Pacific Time.]
September 12th, 2007 at 5:34 PM
Interesting that the Second Life Downtime Calendar doesn’t have the downtime for the 19th on it.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:35 PM
I hope you will learn not to have your downtimes at times 50% of your users (they do call that yurop, dont they) are willing to spend money on your platform. so better plan some “what - if” time in case something screws up and you got to hunt bugs.
last downtime really blocked out whole europe since operation got back on in the late evening hours. did cost quite a bit money, didn’t it?
get up earlier like everyone else in this business when doing updates, would ya? xD
September 12th, 2007 at 5:35 PM
I’m guessing we won’t see a client upgrade after the maintenance. Any chance of getting a new RC any time soon?
September 12th, 2007 at 5:39 PM
Do you want to pay the OT to get people in early, Detox? Because that’s what it will take. Of course we hear this same bitch every time there’s scheduled downtime. Just once I’d like to see someone from Europe realize changing the time isn’t as easy (or as cheap) as people make it out to be.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:54 PM
Thank you for the good advance notice. Good luck with the big hardware swap-out.
September 12th, 2007 at 5:59 PM
excuse me nanci, what I said is pretty much on topic, since they yet got to figure out _when_ to do it, as stated in the post. now what _you_ do is off topic.
most other US-only companies do their updates at night, not in the morning hours, don’t you think?
And btw, this isn’t just “someone” from europe, we have a larger inworld and real world population than you in the US (and that’s where you’re from, obviously), we got money to spend (that’s what you define as “customer” in business), and we prefer doing so in the evening (your afternoon).
It’s interesting to see the term “bitching”, I found it always comes up when someone isn’t able to deal with critics. are you?
your generalization helps a lot, too. “of course we hear the same bitch every time…” really? 
September 12th, 2007 at 6:30 PM
Detox wants you to get up earlier. Let’s see — start work at 6 AM — commute in San Francisco: 45 minutes — breakfast: 20 minutes — s.s.& s: 25 minutes — decide what to wear: 5 minutes: Set alarm: 4:20 AM (snooze time: 5 minutes).
That about right?
So: Earlier? Dress on the way to work? Mr Bean did it, why not you? LOL
September 12th, 2007 at 6:34 PM
Detox
It doesn’t matter what time of the day anymore since SL still have steady number of people online 24/7 at 35,000. The Peak-hour however…. is at evening time in USA so it’s all good.
Don’t forget that LL lives in USA, they can’t just stay up late at night, some of them have family to raise.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:37 PM
bummer. sept 19 is ‘talk like a pirate’ day. (aye, we be having a group party). i hope the update flows smooth so that i’m not tempted to have the admin walk the plank! : )
September 12th, 2007 at 6:38 PM
get over it Detox Americans run on American time if you dont like it then build your own game …… if your smart enough that is
September 12th, 2007 at 6:42 PM
Does anybody know when Second Life version 1.18.3 will be forced onto the public?
September 12th, 2007 at 6:53 PM
Detox, actually MOST us companies cant afford to do it at night. So stop your abusive insulting and stupidity unless YOU are willing to pay the overtime.
oh and by the way, OVERTIME in USA is REQUIRED for keeping residents up at night here.
Um and overtime rates in the USA are MUCH higher then in piddly Europe which by the way accounts for less them 1/4th of SL’s users.
September 12th, 2007 at 6:59 PM
#9 i’m laughing
September 12th, 2007 at 7:07 PM
Detox, just a helpful note - by OT, Nanci meant “Overtime” - as in time-and-a-half pay - NOT off-topic. This should have been obvious given the context - “pay the OT” - one cannot pay the off-topic. Well, I suppose one could, but I’d rather charge them.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:20 PM
six hours? O_o
come on SIX HOURS?!?! why in heavens name schedule it for six hours? why not take it down for the rest of day while your at it? everyone knows the shedule never gets held anyway….
you really should thought of this earlier you know… a piece here a piece there…. to minimize downtimes… they are needed sure but this one will be anoying.
September 12th, 2007 at 7:32 PM
Is this american european time war going to keep up?we’ll see when the update after this arrives, so stay tuned!
It’s an update for Pete’s sake, not a neo nazi terrorist takeover.
When the update happens everyone gets grumpy, that’s why we have modern medicine, take a chill pill, this greater peercaentage of europeans or americans isn’t the issue, the fact that we are all in SL together should bring greater harmony, not less.
No fighting in the playground-I learned that when I was very young.
September 12th, 2007 at 8:06 PM
@12 Read this carefully:
“The exact time and duration of the work is still being determined, but we will make sure it falls between 6am-12noon Pacific (13:00-19:00 GMT).”
This does not say it will last six hours. It says that they do not know yet how long it will last, but however long it does last, the downtime will be at some time between 6am and noon pacific, and therefore of course less than six hours.
Does that help??
September 12th, 2007 at 8:43 PM
I personally think they are giving the team a little bit of time to fix things that will inevitably go wrong with massive changes. This is highly appropriate seeing that most downtimes are extended from 2 to 4 hours due to this. Just think of it as honesty and clean out your hard drive in the mean time
September 12th, 2007 at 8:47 PM
I agree Athena. We usually said we love SL because we meet people from all over the world but then we are critics of them. Hey We leave in the same place and is called Earth
TO SL please do it fast and short
September 12th, 2007 at 8:54 PM
Perhaps since SL is global now they should stagger the maintenance schedule. It won’t be long before there is an SL base in high SL population countries.
I find it hard to believe that LL would have their entire maintenance team based in the US. If so it’s only a matter of time before those fine folks are spread out across the globe. The majority of users are no longer from the US.
I’m living in the US; and I say it should be staggered; fair is fair.
Cat
September 12th, 2007 at 9:08 PM
I honestly, Truely think everyone needs to relax here and let them do their job okay? I honestly dont care if you all have a ” Company” in SL…. that you make an income off of, bitch all you want about me or whatever I honestly wont care, say whatever you please, I’ve seen it others seen it. We agree people seriously need to relax a bit and let them dotheir job if it requires them to take the grid offline then so be it.. you dont have people who have nothing to do with anything running up to you telling you how to do your job do you? and another thing if you can do a better job, apply? eh they are hiring… keep it in mind, give first life a chance and your families a chance. Jesus its a scary sight if you spend 22 Hours on SL getting two hours of sleep waking back up and doing it again seriously.. RELAX A BIT!
September 12th, 2007 at 9:21 PM
Downtime has to happen sometime,Whatever time its done will upset some people im in europe but i think as long as it makes sl more stable/faster then it makes no difference.If downtime takes longer to fix bugs so be it people here i have seen message for a more secure service then moan about downtime.Over past 6 months downtime has been a lot less than before but stability has also been down id rather let them do a good job than a fast job.
September 12th, 2007 at 9:36 PM
RE: #2, #6, #9, #12, #17
Linden Labs = Private United States company.
They can have downtime whenever they feel like it, at any time, with or without notice. They get to do things their way, because they own the product. Deal with it.
September 12th, 2007 at 9:42 PM
With the heterogeneous grid in the future, is SL still going to shut down completely for hardware upgrades or will sims go down as they are upgraded one-by-one?
September 12th, 2007 at 9:57 PM
Detox above asks a good question. Most companies have scheduled maintenance during the wee hours of the morning, not during prime morning business hours.
Also as consideration, most companies don’t pull down their entire system at once to do maintenance. They do it a bit at a time, so that their entire server system isn’t offline.
When was the last time we saw Google or Yahoo down for “scheduled maintenance”?
Has anyone at LL ever been to computer tech school? LOL
September 12th, 2007 at 10:19 PM
I can’t wait! Another episode of SL-TEXT in the forums awaits!
I Think The USA represents the largest =country= of users. When =your= COUNTRY and NOT your CONTINENT (or otherwise self-clarified non-American denomiation of heritage) does the same, then blow your horn, until then, maintenance happens in the AM in California. Nah!
September 12th, 2007 at 10:40 PM
I’m from Europe, and even I understand that LL is located in California, so there’s no way they can do the downtime on hours that are good for Europeans.
And they don’t have to.
All this bitching about when they have to do it.
Point is there’s gonna be a maintenance, so get over it and find something else to do in the times they do it, it’s not like it’s done every day for crying out loud.
Some people are so selfish, they want things to be fixed but not in they’re time.
Uch Sasja said….
September 12th, 2007 at 10:41 PM
Well… the concept of “maintenance window” must be always kept in considertion when dealing with large infrastructure (as per the FCAPS models and the various options included in that) but i agree the doing that in european afternoon is not the smartest idea
We have other timezones that are less crowded than US and EU. I understand perfectly the OT expenses issue, but that must be compared to the inworld reveues for the time frame involved. The Lindens publish the Key Metrics every month… i suppose they should use those to determine the best timezone to turn down with these operations.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Oh come on kiddies lets stop the playground stuff. I am UK, so yes it does hit us hard, and yes I would like to see LL devloping along the lines of other companies where upgrades go along in the background. But it isn’t that way and no ammount of moaning and bitching will change it. I’ve been here exactly a year today and this silly childish arguement of us and them has been going on since then at least.
We are all of us in here first and fourmost SL citizens so lets not grief each other on the forum there’s enough of that inworld.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Joshua, i understand sometimes is needed a Downtime, but this is not the Het grid you promised.
The last downtime was almost 6 hours when it was supossed to be 3, i hope this time things will go better.
September 12th, 2007 at 10:46 PM
“server-side software updates deployed during the downtime”
I hope this not end in a inventory lost…..
September 12th, 2007 at 11:01 PM
@4, @7:
That’s crap and you both know it.
How much it pains me to say, but take a look at SOE…
They have Europe servers that will have regular maintenance downtime in the VERY EARLY mornings (when Europeans are sleeping).
Hence, it can be done.
Only during _updates_ of the server software/client software, it will start in the middle of the European day (around 13:00gmt+1 or something) and will be finished by the time I often come home from work (aruond 17:30/18:00gmt+1).
So again, it can be done.
If it’s not possible, then rotation or alternation would be in order: as @7 said the numbers are the same 24/7, which means there are as much Europeans online when the Americans are sleeping and vv.
Thus would it hurt to alternate time schedules? One maintenance falls in Europe prime time, next update would be American prime time and so on.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:03 PM
@21:
Get off your soap box and stop boosting yuor own horn.
Last time I checked, the Euro is valued more then the USD, so the CONTINENT Europe is becoming more important then the USA on it’s own is.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:27 PM
for all who do not live in the US or UK and don’t understand the time-mix: 6.00 am to 12:00 am pacific time = 13:00 to 19:00 GMT = 15:00 to 21:00 european summer time - and that’s the time we have everywhere in europe except of the UK.
September 12th, 2007 at 11:40 PM
It doesn’t really matter at what time they do this maintenance as long as they do it. I’m UK and I won’t be moaning if I start seeing some grid improvement.
I noticed last night. What happened to the 40k+ online??? (Or were my onscreen figures screwed along with the grid performance?). IT WASN’T THERE !! Does that say anything about how SL is currently performing ?? In that sense I hope this downtime is significantly more than just some new bits of hardware, but some serious effort in getting this world running consistently better than LL have achieved over the last 2 months.
Can’t wait to see the next 2 sets of metrics LL are going to put out.
September 13th, 2007 at 12:15 AM
Oh woot, presence is messed again… The website shows two pages of friends on line and in world I see:
(waiting)
Real Person’s Name
Real Person’s Name
Real Person’s Name
(hippos)
(waiting)
Real Person’s Name
I’m not joking… It really *does* say (hippos)
I wonder what else is borked?
September 13th, 2007 at 12:48 AM
#21, you need to learn that Europe isnt only a Continent.
I for myself didnt live only in germany, first time i live in europe.
Our washington is named Straßburg / Brüssel / Luxemburg.
@all, SL is a game, a expensive one, but a game.
greets
September 13th, 2007 at 1:16 AM
Femina, well said - I’m also in the UK and the downtime means that I will have to find other things to do during that afternoon. But updates must take place and if it’s best for SL to do it at the start of the day so their staff are fresh then so be it.
I just hope that it comes back up when they say, rather than being down until after 22:00 like last time - although working in IT I can understand the reasons for that. And before anyone says LL should test properly - when was the last time that you ever used software that worked perfectly, do you know just how hard it is to test software completely (through every path that the user could possibly take with all the client settings and in world objects and scripts) ?
September 13th, 2007 at 1:16 AM
It would be refreshing to see the downtimes occaisionally scheduled around the Eurozone users. It is understandable that employees do need to go home AND OT is expensive however, most international companies have either outsourced the dirty stuff or have the correct staff in place.
As often the down times go into overtime and in Europe this is evening, it would be a great change to see these updates happening either later or earlier so as not to disrupt the service virtually all day.
Thanks.
September 13th, 2007 at 1:48 AM
How do we subscribe to the Second Life Downtime Calendar? Mind you when I look at it seems this is the last downtime for many months as there are no other entries after this one?
September 13th, 2007 at 2:03 AM
@28:
SL is not a game, it can be a game, but i think is better to call it a platform.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:05 AM
Zephy, that’s the point of subscribing to the calendar, when they add more dates, you’ll know.
To subscribe, you’ll probably need a google account. (gmail, googlemail etc) Then click the link in the post. You’ll be presented with the calendar.
Then you click the little blue “down arrow” in the top right corner of the screen and hit “Add to Google” and it will appear on your google homepage.
Voila.
Dave
September 13th, 2007 at 2:28 AM
Game Platform, Real Life? Facts are all need down time make things better for the future.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:31 AM
Imagine using your home computer to run a server 24/7 - whether it be a file server, BitTorrent tracker, SMTP/POP mail gateway, or HTTP (web) server.
It’s harder than you think. You need a clean, stable OS and server software, configure every detail so the system can take care of itself in case of problems (up to and including automated restarts/recovery procedures) - and have the hardware decently cooled at all times. Not to mention ensure clean and continuous electricity using a UPS *and* a reliable, always-up Internet connection. And once in a while there WILL be important bugfixes or security fixes for which you HAVE to stop and restart the system, fixing upgrade snags if any come up and restoring service as quickly as possible.
I’ve only been talking about a single machine. Now imagine what it must be like taking care of SEVERAL DATA CENTERS and THOUSANDS of networked servers which are, in large parts, controlled remotely rather than locally. And writing your own software for everything!
Please, please, please, try to take that into consideration before you whine and complain about downtime the next time. As far as I’m concerned the Lindens are doing a great job keeping things running as much as they do. And I damn sure appreciate that.
September 13th, 2007 at 2:31 AM
Why are people still complaining about down time? And when the game is going down? Its just part of Second Life Life……..
September 13th, 2007 at 3:12 AM
Cat Cotton Says: Perhaps since SL is global now they should stagger the maintenance schedule. It won’t be long before there is an SL base in high SL population countries.
I find it hard to believe that LL would have their entire maintenance team based in the US. If so it’s only a matter of time before those fine folks are spread out across the globe. The majority of users are no longer from the US.
They do their maintenance when the best people and parts response is available, the upgrades are done when the people writting the code are on deck to sort problems out. Ever tried buying server components at 2am? Yeah 7-11 store will have them…….
The majority of users may not be in the US, but that doesn’t mean we all want maintenace times to suit Europe, most of Australiasia is quite happy with the times.
Of course the entire maintenance team is based in the USA, what would maintencae team s in other countries work on considering all the hardware is in the USA.
If you don’t like it, feel free to move to another part of the planet.
September 13th, 2007 at 3:57 AM
Rather than countries of continents, we should actually look at number of SL users per time zone to calculate optimal downtimes. Of course, since most people are on more than one hour in a day an ‘ideal’ time zone is no good when not far from a sub-ideal time zone.
Say, we pick when it is the middle of the night in the central pacific. Well, it is prime-time in Asia and Australia while early in California (or did I get the math wrong …. 7 am for me).
We do need to factor in reality though. All of the LL people are currently in one time zone (or very near to it). They are there during normal business hours (give or take a few hours).
To have them come in at another time causes some real logistical problems, even if there is no overtime provision (salaried employees) you do not get something for nothing. People who pull an extra shift at night will require more ‘downtime’ than normal. LL does not work in a vacuum … they have vendors and so on to deal with. The less people there, the less work they can do, which eventually translates into a worse grid and the downtime and ….
See the spiral?
September 13th, 2007 at 4:02 AM
You people just need to relax. You know it needs to be updated every now and then, so go outside and do something. Even big monopolies that run from SL need a vacation.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:03 AM
Invitation to Linden !
i hope you can send this to all who care.
yours & our book! the 8th art .
just answer :
secondlife.com = 8th art? ! why yes or no?
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Send your writer POINTS OF VEIW on the subject of art VIII with CV with the self-image of the personality to be your discussion in the symposium and will be recorded in a special book combines all critical views also publishes the full video.
second life = 8th art ?! yes the last art!
what do you think!?
so , second life=8th art ?!
iam saying :yes
And my theory is :8th art = philosophy of scientific theory equal the point where it supposed between art and life experience!
Your world. Your imagination.
MY 4 BOOKS TALKING ABOUT THE 8TH ART BUT MY NEXT ONE IS SL=8th art ! help plz
The
Writer
SARMAD ALSARMADY
Mobile
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September 13th, 2007 at 4:07 AM
I really do love it so much when people here discuss about their own “precious” local time for that upcoming shutdown next week - be it USA, Europe, Australia or whatsoever. That is so funny… so silly…
Second Life : “Their small individual world, their tiny selfish imagination” - burst out laughin’.
No one at least noticed that Labs has warned one week in advance here or what ?
And last : Can’t you live 6 hours, or even half a day without logging in ? A real pity.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:38 AM
Thank you LL. It is good to have plenty of notice for the downtime.
Hopefully the new hardware will improve our gaming experience.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:40 AM
yes, it’s true, the europeans (of which i am one) do go overboard on the “why us” trip about downtime. (i don’t)
however this contiuous response in the blogs of (circa): “well iss in amuurka an amurrka owns it so stfu”;
is silly and counterproductive. the correct response should be:
“judging from concurrency numbers, ANY time you take the grid down it will inconvenience somewhere between 20000 - 50000 users. the population furthermore uses the platform at varying times during their local day/night so ocal “daytime”, “primetime” etc are moot considerations, LL will simply do it when they find it easiest and avoid moments of peak concurrency, which last i saw happen around midnight CET.”
we need to get out of this mentality of “sports-rivalry/politics-rivalry” discussion, waving flags blindly on each side, to get out of this mentality of cultural barriers, borders, parcels, banlines, sec orbs present in our very minds. sucks when it’s off, would be nice if it worked when it’s on, would be nice if it stayed sensibly free of cancerous appendages like integrity.. those are the considerations we need to make.
“divided we fall”.. didn’t some american say that?
93/93
September 13th, 2007 at 4:42 AM
… but of course a real, commercial, data-centre operation wouldn’t dream of charging you 195 USD/month for a server, a bit of rack-space, a bit of bandwidth and some dodgy leased software either …
*grins*
September 13th, 2007 at 4:44 AM
OK guys so SL will be down. Now you can take the time and have a rl LOL
September 13th, 2007 at 4:45 AM
Val Says: “get over it Detox Americans run on American time if you dont like it then build your own game …… if your smart enough that is”
How stupid and arrogant.
September 13th, 2007 at 4:49 AM
I think the real complaint we as residents have is that insufficent beta testing is done … if LL expanded the beta grid (and do more extensive testing there) then less downtime should be needed.
This should make for less problems after updates and less downtime . Both of which lead to happier residents.
Just my L$2s worth …
September 13th, 2007 at 5:05 AM
[...] there is a scheduled downtime for Second Life on September 19th, we will use this downtime to also move the Subscribe-O-Matic to [...]
September 13th, 2007 at 5:15 AM
I don’t think the blog post was worded right
The exact time and duration of the work is still being determined, but we WILL MAKE SURE it falls between 6am-12noon Pacific (13:00-19:00 GMT).
maybe it should have said it will fall, because it makes us European SL users sound like we’re not as important as American SL users when it’s worded like that!
September 13th, 2007 at 5:25 AM
As someone from Europe, i dont mind the downtime.
And as the majority of the Europeans i would rather see it happing earlier.
i only hope it will end at the announced time.
@14 i dont dare to hope it will end earlier, just let it be done in the 6 hours.
September 13th, 2007 at 5:47 AM
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
And if stuff gets better I will have more hugs and thank you’s too! Second Lag has started to replace Second Life, but I ain’t giving up yet. This is long overdue.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.
Cat Gisel,
Hugmonster
September 13th, 2007 at 6:32 AM
I’m also in the UK and I have also been in SL now for exactly one year. In all that time, updates have always been at the same time on Wednesdays. At first (when the addiction was still very new and withdrawl was bad) it was a huge pain for SL to be down during our prime-time, but it’s now something I’ve become used to.
What is true is that there are now several major companies in SL that opperate from the UK and mainland Europe (Rivers Run Red springs immediately to mind). These are not casual users or individual residents, but real businesses with real world offices and teams of paid staff. These are businesses that are not just making a living out of SL, but are enhancing the experience for everyone, whether they live in the UK, Germany, Japan, Argentina or even the USA. One day every couple of weeks when they are unable to work is a huge financial loss to them.
Now, when SL was just a bunch of residents - mostly living in the US - a Wednesday morning (Pacific Time) down time was acceptable and perfectly understandable. But SL is no longer all about ordinary Americans being able to log on as they stroll in from work. People from all over the world have now invested money in SL and as strong European currencies flood in to boost the finances of SL, maybe LL should star to at least consider staggering downtime as a sort of thank you to some of the world companies that are spending time and money making SL a better place . It’s this sort of world investment that is going to make sure that SL is around for a very long time.
Before someone says I’m claiming that without us Europeans there would be no SL, let me insist that I’m not saying that. US companies have also invested big time in SL, but it’s the cumulative effect that is coming in to play here. In my one year in SL I have seen things change from being very much all individual resident-based to a huge input from non-US companies. The growth in the Japanese sector alone is remarkable. Since March, I have seen one Japanese area grow from one sim to over 20 sims and corporate logos are pasted across some amazingly wonderful buildings. And then there is the collection of Sims created by an in-world Italian group that hopes to bring real Italian fashion to SL.
All this despite some repeatedly negative press about SL - especially in the US where it seems to be the current trend to claim that all SL is good for is wrecking real-life marriages.
The fact is, non-US residents and businesses are flooding in to SL. A year ago, I was surrounded by Americans in SL (which is no hardship to me as I love Americans and they make up about 70% of my SL friends - including my SL partner who is a Californian). But now, I see more and more European and Japanese players. A few of them ‘play’ in SL, but most are here to start a business (and in that, I’m no exception). Of my non-US friends, only 3 are not involved in some sort of business. Of my American friends, only 8 (out of around 300) ARE involved in a business of some kind.
It’s not just for fellow Europeans that I would like to see staggering of down-time, but for people everywhere. SL really is a global platform now, and LL need to reflect that in everything they do - including down-time.
September 13th, 2007 at 6:56 AM
very well said @ 34
September 13th, 2007 at 7:05 AM
notagambler: you need to learn that Europe isnt only a Continent.
(oh, this should be good)
Do tell - what else is it?
September 13th, 2007 at 7:07 AM
OT usually refers to “off topic” xD
anyway, the loss is a bit more than paying people “over time” when you block out europe for that evening.
all I am asking for is _not to start_ at 10 am and then find out the rollout came with a dozen bugs you got to work on for the next hours, blocking out entire europe for that day. just start earlier, and have enough “safety” time in your schedule that isnt blocking a major group out.
September 13th, 2007 at 7:08 AM
Cat Cotton: I find it hard to believe that LL would have their entire maintenance team based in the US. If so it’s only a matter of time before those fine folks are spread out across the globe. The majority of users are no longer from the US.
I’m living in the US; and I say it should be staggered; fair is fair.
Care to share your ideas about how hardware maintenance can be globalised?
“Yeah, Ralph - I am going to ship you this router… do what you can and ship it back. Quickly, now… remember, people are moaning about downtime.”
September 13th, 2007 at 7:10 AM
oh forgot a thing….
people here are really worried about LL employees doing overtime, not being able to be with their family for update day? (once or twice a month?)
all I said was… start the update early so >50% of your users aren’t blocked out as last time.
and why are people refering to SL as a game? it shows no characteristics of a game xD
September 13th, 2007 at 7:12 AM
Hey..look at the bright side of this…
Americans can get a few things done,you know silly things,like eating a REAL meal,maybe some laundry or even *gasps* pay some bills during the hours the grid is down..Europeans can spend a little quality time with their family’s, or even hit the local pubs for a pint and let all your friends see that you are still alive and kicking..after all..everyone probably spend more time in SL than in RL (except while working) so a break is good..if it only comes 1 time every 2-4 weeks..
Food for thought..*hugs*
September 13th, 2007 at 7:22 AM
@ 13 Athena (and other similar postings). You’re right, shouldn’t really matter when the downtime is. It’s gotta happen sometime, and someone somewhere is going to be inconvenienced! Here in east-coast Australia downtime will be 11pm to 4am (west-coast Australia it will be 8pm to 1am). At least we’ve been pre-warned about this downtime. Better than when SL crashes unexpectedly, or whole regions go offline for hours. Go to it guys, and fix it so that the unexpected doesn’t happen quite to often. :))
September 13th, 2007 at 7:31 AM
The argument about what time the maintenance is done is moot. The simple fact is no matter what time or how maintenance is done, a portion of the user base is going to be inconvenienced.
Starting at 12 AM PDT (3 AM EDT; 8 AM UTC) would cause less disruption to users in Europe and hardly affect users in the US (except for those in the Pacific Time Zone). Most Europeans will be at work; most of North America will be asleep.
Every project requiring a major outage I’ve ever been involved with has almost always been scheduled for midnight in the local time zone.
As for cost, no overtime required if it’s part of the job description that you’ll be expected to work nights on occasion. They just have to give staff time off to sleep. As for the argument that some have families; it’s also moot. Sometimes one has to come in in the middle of the night and one plans accordingly.
People complain about grid-wide shutdowns. They complain when maintenance requires rolling restarts. They complain when updates to the client are forced on them.
No matter how LL slices it, users will complain.
I, for one, am glad of a week’s notice of the outage and will expect SL may or may not be available on the 19th when I try to log in. If it’s not, I’ll just have to find something else to do. I know
What I’d like to see is a 7 day period when the core infrastructure (asset servers, databases, networking, sims, etc.) actually work as they’re spec’d to work, without error. It seems like a day doesn’t go by without some sort of time-wasting glitch going on. (Time-wasting meaning “I have to deal with this [irritating idiot bug] instead of building/socializing/shopping/scripting/whatever it was I had planned to do.”
And no, I will not be an apologist for the fact that it doesn’t. But that’s a whole other topic ….
September 13th, 2007 at 7:32 AM
@ 13 Athena (and other similar comments here). You’re right. Shouldn’t really matter when the downtime happens. Someone somewhere is gonna be inconvenienced.
Here in eastcoast Australia the downtime will be 11pm to 4am (westcoast Australia it will be 8pm to 1am) - peaktime for a lot of Aussie users!
At least we’ve all been pre-warned about this one - better than when SL crashes unexpectedly or when whole regions go offline for hours.
Go fix it guys, and make the unexpected happen a little less frequently.
September 13th, 2007 at 7:42 AM
Anyone else having trouble connecting right now?
September 13th, 2007 at 7:43 AM
Ah, got in finally. Kept getting the “despite our best efforts…” message. Thought they might have started the maintenance a little early
September 13th, 2007 at 8:10 AM
Jesus Christ. people have to understand this is a virtual. If people set their business in virtual worlds, like i did for example, they should know that not everything is perfect. So relax guys, its not the end of the world.
As for time zones and the Europe/America wars, they just dont make sense, and American users cant be reduced to only US users. Last time i checked we have Canada and Sout American countries. And the US its ot only the west East Coast. Lots of states will also fall close to some European countries time zones.
Point is, we decided to run businesses in a web platform. Guess what, mot of you wouldnt be complaining about loosing money if SL wouldnt be around, because probably most would not have a business at all.
So relax, take those six hours to get some fresh air, be with the kids, kiss your wifes, maybe walk the dog.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:12 AM
That said, im going to complain because my keyboard not catching a few letters. Wich will probably make me loose some money also in some sort of way. My o my…
September 13th, 2007 at 8:38 AM
Seth… I gotta give you a HUGE AMEN on that! My goodness. It’s a GAME people. If your RL is so upset over your SL being down for ANY period of time, that tells me, you REALLY need to get a RL!! Seriously. Point is, downtime is needed. LL is in US, they do it when they can. End of story. Please… go enjoy some RL with ALL that linden you are making with your buisness on here
Just think, you’re not losing $$ to competition while down time is happening… Be happy… others are in the SAME position. 
September 13th, 2007 at 8:42 AM
Going to fix the lag issues this time? both build and chat
lets hope so.
September 13th, 2007 at 8:59 AM
#2: Detox
Every single second of every single day it is midnight somwehere on earth. When would be fair ? What’s practical is what flies and if staff are availble at peak hours somewhere on earth, you have been warned. Not much LL can do about it. If it fixes the really bad child agent rejection issues and clears up some of the crash behaviour, it’s worth it. My only gripe is it falls almost on the heels of a big event on the Isle of Wyrms. But, that’s happened at every one of these since they started a couple of years ago.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:03 AM
Oops. Sorry ppl, I thought my first posting (@50) didn’t register so I sent it again (@51) - Now they’ve both come up together, lol.
@54 Couldn’t agree with you more Seth. I can’t wait to go outside and remind myself what Real Life is like (I suspect I won’t like it!). Kids? Dogs? Oh yeah, I think I got a few of them around here somewhere. This could be embarrassing though, don’t think I can remember what my partner looks like!
Now, if only I could remember where the door was to get out of this room…….
Uh ohhhh. Just stepped away from the keyboard for a few seconds and got profound feelings of loss and grief. HELP!!!
September 13th, 2007 at 9:37 AM
this is great news as I am definitely in my 1st life that day
stay tuned
September 13th, 2007 at 9:42 AM
When I was still working in an offioe job, we needed our bookkeeping files and lists updated and printed every morning right in time to open for busieness. THat meant for the operators in IT departrment they needed to start they’re work at 5AM - EVERY FUCKING DAY!!! DElays were nit acceptable. So getting up that early was not overtime, no, it was usually working hours for them. Heck, that’s life whehn you work in IT!!! So why can’t LL (an IT company, aren’t they?) be working at nighttime or the wee hours of the morning??? SL is open 24/7 so I think it’s provoider must be open 24/7 too.
Apart from that I’m not worried by inconvinient downtime too much. It’s quite nice to see my poor hubby from time to time ;)))
September 13th, 2007 at 9:46 AM
What I just came to think of: why not power SL SEARCH by Google? Those guys know how to do it… maybe that would help improve the search… I’d like expressions like “keyword1+keyword2 -keyword3″ or “topic:flowers -user:somespammer”… that would be pretty cool indeed.
September 13th, 2007 at 9:57 AM
To everyone crying about SL being down for six whole hours, please, step out the door open your eyes and see the sun for a change. you’ll feel better. i promise.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:22 AM
Thanks for the usual European snub. Good luck with the update.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:48 AM
@ #62 You expect an American owned and operated company to modify its schedule for people outside the USA?
September 13th, 2007 at 10:54 AM
@57Ryu Darragh and all others who don’t get the point: search for key metrics, july 2007, compare the timezones and tell me what’s wrong with what I said.
today from 4pm CET to now (7:47 pm CET) we had 35.000-39.000 residents on. the numbers are way lower in the morning, thats because “asian” timezones (+oceanian) aren’t represented as much.
Just saying, 3PM CET + around 6h … that’s the “usual” time corridor for downtimes. Please consider that a lot of “US” Timezone residents are online at that time aswell, since its in their morning (in case you wonder, it’s not even about “US vs Europe”, its about “Times when money is spent inworld”).
For the sake of inworld business it’s better to shift the downtime to the very early morning hours.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:57 AM
1. Second Life likely isn’t going to be down for six hours, for you people still mentioning this. That six hours is the *window* of time during which the maintenance, whether it takes an hour or three hours or whatever, will happen.
2. I’m in the U.S., but I’ve always been a proponent of staggered downtimes so as not to consistently inconvenience just one group of our overseas residents. I’ve been told it isn’t going to happen, and Linden Lab will not back down from a stance once they take it. Yes, some companies schedule their downtime for the night time hours. It’s still going to inconvenience *someone*. After all, we aren’t all located in North America, South America, and Europe. I have friends from Asia and Australia, too. Then there is the OT situation — most companies pass the extra cost for over-time pay on to their customers. By doing maintenance during regular work hours, Linden Lab can hold down their costs.
3. Besides, look at LL employee’s “office hours”. I can never get in to actually see a Linden because I’m working when they are. You people in drastically different time zones have a decided advantage over those of us who live and work between the Pacific and Eastern Time Zones.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:09 AM
Maxx Something: To everyone crying about SL being down for six whole hours, please, step out the door open your eyes and see the sun for a change.
Screw the sun! It was down for nine hours last night, and seems to go down every damned night like clockwork.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:16 AM
It’s really dark to see how some people are so tribalist. Evolution to the Noosphere looks even more distant.
Good lucky LL.
September 13th, 2007 at 11:27 AM
@Amanda Ascot:
on 1, I said “Time Corridor.”
on 2, Yes we all do live in different parts of the world, but SL usage as given in the July Key metrics say ~44% are european, ~44% are American.
so there is a time corridor where the least ammount of people are usually online - now try being logical ;P
September 13th, 2007 at 11:28 AM
I think it is time for SL to take a full 24 hour off so that *everyone* gets the offline sign and hit equally (well, more or less anyway).
Perhaps LL then could be on schedule for once and get the things working instead of the usual soup of “sorry we are delayed by a new bug”
Wouldn’t it be nice if it actually worked well for once?
*GRINS*
September 13th, 2007 at 11:38 AM
does anybody think about the european users? they´re also paying…
will it be more stable afte the downtime… i hope so… sl laggs so extreme…
in hope for a better (second)life
DOG Bracken
September 13th, 2007 at 12:01 PM
till you don’t force me to use the horrible voice version np …..
means all the m6 tubes same time and xtremly loud .. and it is a fact int this case voice is just a joke because nobody want to speak and ok just a m6 or any rl kid radio play
first the “ergonomy” is a disaster and that stupid rl supposed voice is or a big scrouitch or ok…. that works so i have to hear KIDS (shaped in adults they are not so stupid) making a contest of mmm what kind of LOUDSPEAKER to use just to mess and mix the sound all around … i’m not a old sl avatar to have to hear a m6 contest from teen agers -
September 13th, 2007 at 12:03 PM
sorry i’m french wrote m6 ….. our french MTV ….
September 13th, 2007 at 2:00 PM
At his keynote address at recent SLCC convention, one of the things Philip Linden talked about is plan to make the grid more decentralized, so that it would no longer be necessary to take down entire grid at once to do updates. I’m sure LL employees want this flexibilty even more than European customers or anyone in US who like to use SL on Wednesday mornings. This won’t eliminate all inconvenience during downtime, but it will help a lot.
September 13th, 2007 at 3:07 PM
Re: This US v. Europe moaning. Art (?) imitating life, anyone?
September 13th, 2007 at 7:46 PM
LL should listen to the Euro-whining and make it fair to everyone: take the grid down for 24 hours during updates so everyone is inconvenienced equally.
September 13th, 2007 at 10:02 PM
@28 et all…
* United States 31.19%
* France 12.73%
* Germany 10.46%
* United Kingdom 8.09%
* Netherlands 6.55%
* Spain 3.83%
* Brazil 3.77%
* Canada 3.30%
* Belgium 2.63%
* Italy 1.93%
Source: Reuters
Radnoya gdya te niz niyu.
September 14th, 2007 at 1:41 AM
hmmmmm this is going to be my second downtime since joing second life…..I understand there has to be downtime and for all the Americans who are saying its an American company well thats true but a lot of there customers are from europe, there has to be some middle ground for this downtime. I am thinking of opening a Biz on Second Life so when its down in the future so will be my Second Life Biz…..So Second Life do not treat the E.U as SECOND LIFE SECOND GRADE CITIZENS …… Jewellery Chemistry
September 14th, 2007 at 2:39 AM
Detox Watanabe Says:
For the sake of inworld business it’s better to shift the downtime to the very early morning hours.
Business in SL is 24/7, so you’re going to loose 6 hour regardless, it’s every 2nd or 3rd Wednesday, get used to it, customerers aren’t buying from the competition during downtime you realise, and if they were, improve your product or match their prices.
Be great to be down for 12 hours instead of 4hrs because the techs or parts required weren’t available till 9am?
Why should we upset the rest of the world just for your little bit of Europe?
September 14th, 2007 at 3:38 AM
Tegg B:
Do you post just to post or dont you get it? xD
the “rest of the world” in terms of usage, according to SL key metrics, source lindenlabs (not reuters - a hint to Dytska Vieria), is around 15% at max. That little bit of “europe” (and your US morning hour users) make quite a lot of a difference.
Try imagine a graph. Let’s assume SL usage is like a “sinus” wave, the downtime should be at a minimum.
For some reason your theory about spending does not quite apply inworld. People dont spend more money after a downtime, so a downtime means a loss, regardless. I could imagine reasons for that, but those don’t really matter for our case, do they?
Lindenlabs advertises the grid for business use. It is common in IT business to do all updates in the time the lowest usage occurs. Don’t question it, that’s the way it is.
Tech workers should be used to that. With the current downtimes (1-2 times a month), it shouldn’t be a problem to do it at the right times, even if that means that people have to get up earlier. It’s their job. You’d expect your ISP that provides your internet access to do the same for you.
The remark about unavailable techs or products is kinda odd. They do prepare the downtime, don’t they? I don’t _really_ think they sent out their trainee 30 minutes before each downtime to get the newest hardware at the hardware store around the corner.
September 14th, 2007 at 6:24 PM
@74 OMG thats funny where you get those stats from?
September 14th, 2007 at 9:17 PM
Oh for crying out loud, Usagi… the source for the stats is stated right in the post. But I suppose it was too long for you to read, wasn’t it? Do you ever take the time to read anything? The stats are from Reuters and taken from data from LINDEN LAB.
http://secondlife.reuters.com/stories/2007/02/09/europe-takes-lead-in-second-life-users/
September 14th, 2007 at 10:03 PM
My original reference was from Feb/07. LL does provide more regular statistics at: http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy_stats.php, click on KEY METRICS for your favorite format. So, as of the latest report, the statistics STILL CLEARLY ST