Identity Verification Comes to Second Life
Wednesday, August 29th, 2007 at 5:03 AM by: Robin LindenTrust is the foundation of any community. And one cornerstone of trust is identity. You’ve got to know something about the person you are dealing with before you can trust them. Knowing who to trust in an online environment presents unique challenges. Traditionally Second Life users have based their trust on relationships built over time, and often on some basic verification such as ‘Payment Info on File’.
As the community grows and as the economy develops, it’s clear we need a new means of identification. We’ve talked about identity and age verification in prior posts here, here and here. Each one elicited a lot of feedback in the comments. Comments which we’ve listened to and considered when developing our Identity Verification (IDV) system.
The IDV system aims to deliver two things. First, for Residents, it gives them the chance to independently verify certain aspects of their identity (their name, age, location and sex for instance) if they choose to. This will help establish trust by removing a layer of anonymity for those they interact with. It’s much easier to trust someone who puts their name behind their words and actions.
The second benefit of the IDV system is to help land owners and content publishers be sure that minors do not get access to inappropriate material. Again this is voluntary, but we wanted to provide the tools for estate owners to restrict access to content of a sexual or violent nature to those they are sure are over 18. They’ll do this by flagging the content as ‘Restricted’ which will only allow avatars verified as over 18 to access the land. Visitors to Restricted areas can also be reassured that all other visitors are over 18 as well.
I want to reiterate that identity verification is voluntary for both Residents and estate owners. Residents who value their anonymity may continue to remain anonymous and will continue to have access to all Mature and PG areas of the Grid. Land owners are strongly encouraged to flag adult content as Restricted to safeguard themselves from publishing inappropriate content to minors, as well as protecting any minors themselves.
Information provided during the identification process, such as a driver’s license, passport or national ID card number, will simply be used to cross-check against public records. Linden Lab will not be storing this data and nor will the third party verification specialist, Aristotle. Residents may choose which personal details such as name, age, location, sex, they wish to share about themselves publicly.
Some asked whether a simple credit card could suffice as verification. For the purpose of building trust, such a system would not be adequate since credit cards are not a means of ID. Credit cards aren’t restricted to over 18s, are not tied to a verified name and are not available in every country where Second Life is used. You can’t get into a bar with a credit card for instance.
A beta of the IDV system is open initially to all estate owners from today, who are free to verify their identities. Once the beta period is complete the system will be available to all Residents. Access to Restricted parcels will be prohibited for non-verified avatars from that time.
Further to Ian Linden’s recent blog post about Grid stability, I’d also like to reassure you that this system has been developed by a third party and has not detracted from essential bug fixing efforts, which we realize are key.
We’ve updated and enhanced the Q&As below, which I hope address the main points about how to verify yourself and which types of content to flag. Personally, I think this will help take our in-world relationships to a new level of trust. And that’s good for us all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Questions and Answers
• What is identity verification? It’s a means of verifying aspects of who you are in real life, such as age or location, by checking information you provide against public records.
• Why do we need it? Identity verification provides an additional layer of trust for in-world businesses and Residents. It also helps ensure that minors can not gain access to inappropriate content in Second Life or have access to restricted content in-world.
• How does it work? Residents will provide a few simple details about their identity – generally, name, date of birth, and address. Additionally, Residents will be asked to provide specific identifying information, such as, for example, a driver’s license number, passport or national ID card number, or the last four digits of a social security number (this is dependent on where geographically the Resident is based). This is then cross-checked against pre-existing databases of public record, to verify relevant aspects of a Resident’s identity.
• Do I have to submit to identity verification? No. This is completely voluntary. For example, you need only provide age verification if you choose to enter areas in Second Life that have been flagged as having restricted content.
• What do you mean by “flagged as having restricted content”? Estate and parcel owners will be requested to flag the presence of restricted content on their land. Access to that area will then be restricted to verified Residents only. Flagging restricted areas provides notice to adults that content contained in the area may be objectionable to them. It also provides an added layer of protection against minors who have gained unauthorized access to the world of Second Life.
• Why are you doing this now? The growing popularity of Second Life gives rise to the need to add measures of security so that Second Life remains a safe environment for all Residents. We also want to make sure that Residents have the tools they need to interact with the community in a way that works for them. This is a more effective way of identification than ‘payment information on file’, which some Residents use to evaluate whether they can trust another individual.
• What documents do I need to prove my identity? Exact documents may vary depending on your country of residence, but may include: passport, driver’s license, national ID number or social security number.
• I’m outside the US. Does it work the same in each country? The exact information required for identity verification may vary from country to country, but the system works in generally the same way around the world.
• What types of activities in Second Life will require age verification? Access to areas that Residents and businesses have flagged as containing restricted content will require age verification.
• Who will need to verify their age? Anyone wishing to access restricted content will need to verify their age in advance. Just like going into a bar – you need to prove your age.
• What if I’m under 18? Minors are not allowed in Second Life. Please access Teen Second Life to enjoy Second Life if you are under 18. Only Residents between the ages of 13 and 17 will be allowed to access Teen Second Life.
• What if I want to remain anonymous? Residents over the age of 18 can still remain anonymous if they wish to remain in areas of Second Life that do not contain restricted content. Identity verification will only be required at this time for access to restricted content.
• What if adult content is not flagged as restricted? We strongly encourage land holders to flag any restricted content and restrict their parcels to avoid minors inadvertently accessing it. If Residents and businesses choose not to do this, we expect that such behavior will be reported by the community itself. As has always been the case, Residents are morally, socially and legally responsible for their actions and content in Second Life. Clearly, any illegal activity or content will be investigated and appropriate action will be taken.
• What personal information will you store? Linden Lab will not store any specific, identifying information. Our verification provider will assess the consistency of the provided information and return a match code; at that point, a Resident becomes verified. The entire process takes less than two minutes, and will be available internationally. Our verification provider will only use information to provide a match code and the only information stored by Linden Lab will be whether or not there was a match.
• Do I have to pay for verification? Verification will initially be free; as we roll out the system we expect there to be a nominal fee for Premium members, and a larger fee for people with Basic memberships.
• Do I have to verify each avatar I use? You will have to verify each separate avatar that you use, but there are no limits on the number of avatars you can have verified. This can all be done under the ‘my account’ section of the Second Life Web site.
• As a parcel/estate owner, how do I flag content as ‘restricted’? Land owners will find a check box in their land management tools that they will be able to check if they have restricted content on their land. To find this, in the Second Life viewer, go to World > About Land > Options. There’s a check box called Restricted Content under Land Options.
• What is defined as “Restricted Content”? We trust that common sense will prevail. As a general rule, “Restricted Content” is any content that is explicitly sexual or excessively violent in nature.
• What happens if I don’t flag my restricted content? We believe that most landowners will want to take steps to prevent minors being exposed to restricted content. All content creators and businesses are morally and legally responsible for their activities. We strongly advise landowners to take advantage of these tools to prevent inappropriate use by those who may have accessed the adult grid using fraudulent information. Land containing adult content that is not clearly marked will be easily identifiable by the community. This will enable the community to raise concerns directly with the landowner or with Linden Lab via the Abuse channel. The burden of responsibility lies with the parcel and estate owner for the content displayed and activities offered on their land. The identity verification system provides those owners with the means to protect themselves, their customers and visitors.
• Doesn’t payment information count as age verification? Payment information was never meant to be proof of age. In fact, credit cards are not restricted to people over the age of 18, nor are credit cards available in all countries. In the past, we have recognized accounts as verified when we receive complete payment information; however, this process does not serve as a substitute for age verification.
• What happens if I experience problems when I try and verify my identity? We are committed to making sure the process is as smooth and user-friendly as possible, however, we understand that this represents a change for Residents. We have also tested the system extensively with our systems provider, Integrity, which has a great track record of delivering this type of technology to other companies. Issues should be directed to the SL support portal.
• How can I be sure that my information will be treated securely when I enter it on the ‘my account’ section? The data will be transmitted securely via SSL (Secure Socket Layer) to Integrity. This is a standard, secure way of transmitting data over the Web, and is used by many online businesses. For example, if you’ve ever paid a bill online, chances are it was with SSL in place.
• Will my personal information ever be shared with anyone else? Linden Lab does not share Resident data for marketing or other purposes, but does of course comply with requests from all governmental and regulatory authorities and with court orders including subpoenas.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:11 AM
Hoooo boy. While I realize this is important, I am going to have to find shelter till the exodus (stampede) is over…
August 29th, 2007 at 5:13 AM
/me laughs at yet another half-done pseudo-effort of problem solving.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:15 AM
OMG here it is. glad i’ve not gone premium yet, and won’t be now.
minors aren’t allowed, but we have to protect minors
to be trusted in second life, bring your full first life in.
integrity, the politically-connected company got it’s wedge in, and will split second life asunder.
it will initially be free for me to log into my home sim if i act fst, otherwise i’ll have to pay… way to make it “optional”.
cancelling all ads now.
“well, have the integrity, it’s not got much scam in it…”
“I DON”T LIKE SCAM!”
bleah.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:16 AM
So…if someone wanted to try this out, where do you do? What’s the URL to give your info for verification, and what’s the in-world interface for verifying if someone is over 18 & whatever else they allow you to see?
August 29th, 2007 at 5:17 AM
You say that “Linden Lab does not share Resident data for marketing or other purposes”, can someone from LindenLab state for the record that Integrity will do the same??
August 29th, 2007 at 5:17 AM
This still doesn’t change the fact that asking for people’s passports, social security numbers, etc is illegal in many countries and given the level of technical abilitities keeping SL up and running, can we really trust them to keep our personal information secure?
August 29th, 2007 at 5:19 AM
I think a little information about the third party provider, Aristotle, would be courteous at the very least, rather than one throwaway mention of their name. As a non-US resident, I’m certainly not handing over personal identity details without more knowledge of who I’m dealing with. If this then means I’m further restricted in what I can and can’t do in Second Life, it will raise the issue of whether it’s all worth it.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:19 AM
I am sure we’ll once again see a slew of people complaining about how their anonymity would be shattered if they had to confirm they’re over 18.
Personally I have NO issue with verifying that, but it is their perogative to decide not to confirm it.
And correspondingly, it’s estate owners’ perogative to decide whether they want those folks accessing their content, so hey. It all works out.
I’m glad LL is offering us (residents and businesses) this tool. The last thing I want to see is some innocent resident getting busted for cybering someone who turns out to be under 18. The *assumption* that everyone is over 18 in this environment wouldn’t protect you legally…
August 29th, 2007 at 5:20 AM
Robin said: (their name, age, location and sex for instance)
There will be verification of gender, Robin? This will open up MANY in the genderqueer community to bigotry and harassment, moreso than voice can.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:22 AM
P.S.: Of course we’ll want more detail on the identity check provider, but again… remember that these are forms of ID people use on a daily basis and show to random potentially questionable businesses in real-life all the time… businesses that often make a photocopy that ends up god knows where.
Since unlike a lot of businesses, they assert that they’re not storing the information, I’m not too concerned. Just a little assurance that this is a legit biz and has procedures in place to protect the info will be enough for me.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:23 AM
Kristian@#8, it sounds like you can choose to verify parts of the information and not others. Since the only one that ties in to land flagging is the age flag, I imagine a lot of people will verify for that flag alone.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:24 AM
Perhaps we could have a little revolution happening here… if verification is truly voluntary, and landowners are only ’strongly encouraged’ to flag restricted content, what happens if all we residents refuse to play ball… ? Our world, our imagination…
August 29th, 2007 at 5:24 AM
Will we also have the ability to ban people from our land who HAVE verified?
August 29th, 2007 at 5:28 AM
No. I look at this is a significant security weakness. In this age of identity theft, there is no way I’ll provide a possible chance for this to happen. I look at it also as the first step in taxing the monetary exchanges. No way. My properties are up for sale. Prices will be dropped every day until they are gone, and then I will simply delete my account. Land that is unsold will be abandoned. Sorry folks. RL and SL need to be separate. Move your servers to some other country that doesn’t require such levels of scrutiny. My premium account comes due shortly. It will be downgraded before then, and credit card info removed. Oh yes, in RL I am 60. Nothing to hide here..
August 29th, 2007 at 5:28 AM
i for one am happy to see this. There are so many on SL who see it as nothing but a game and see nothing wrong with deceiving others. Thus a person has to work so hard to prove that you actually are who you say you are. i will be quite happy to provide the data that will prove to other residents in ways that they can trust that in real life i am a 49 year old woman. (i.e., not a man playing a woman, not a 16 year old pretending to be an adult.) i have nothing to hide and i am glad LL is giving us a way that others can trust to show who we really are as deception unfortunately seems to be the norm for so many on SL. They forget that the avatar they are talking to is actually controlled by a real live human with real feelings who can be hurt by deception and lies.
so yay LL, and thank you (p.s. i first joined SL in December 2005 (as Stumblinn Giles, now deleted and replaced by my angel Scarborough account) so i have been around long enough to know much of the good and bad.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:28 AM
They state it will be different for each country someone resides in. What will happen though to someone who for example- is a U.S. Citizen and therefore has a social security number or a passport number for a different country, but lives in a foreign country and does not have the required identifying document required for that IP address? They need to make it flexible for such occurrences. I foresee long hours on the telephone wading through lindon support just to walk into an adult club.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:29 AM
Trust is important but even people who say their true name can still lie about information! If you have a business in SL you should not be lie to customers in the first place!!!!!!!!! I not against identity verification system, sometimes its a good thing other times its not. IVS could be handy with griefers, and going to adult restricted parcels/regions. I dont think giving the Last for digits of your SSN to LL is the best idea ,even tho its one part of the SSN.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:30 AM
I notice that landowners are ’strongly encourage’ in one part and ‘requested’ in another. Looks like although it will be ‘volentary’ if land is not set the owners will be told very firmley to do so!
August 29th, 2007 at 5:30 AM
@Jen#3
It’s not a tool, it’s a rule. The ban list is a tool. This is not.
They’ve already :
“complied with requests from all governmental and regulatory authorities and with court orders including subpoenas.”
including narc’ing folks doing nothing illegal, and without having this.
why add it? can you say politically-connected pork-barrel rape?
i’m not going to go live in PG land, and i’m not giving this company (aristotle’s integrity) squat.
if i lose access to zones for that, i’m leaving as well.
I’m over 18 and not a friend of Big Brother.
You don’t fool me, people will still pull scams, and you’ll do nothing more about it than before.
No one is protected and we are all less free and less safe with this measure. The blurb at the beginning is a lame attempt to gloss over the old “broadly offensive” faux pas.
I got grief from premiums, AR’d, no result. this system will do NOTHING positive (to us), but will bring integrity another illustrious client and kill the metverse as we know it.
conformity is imagination. surrender is safety. war is peace.
welcome to the new SL.,
Your matrix pod, No imagination.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:31 AM
I have right now verified and it was smooth and fast, just took the time to fill the few fields and press the “verify” button to have a prompt answer of “verification completed successfully”. I live in Italy and just picked the ID from the dropdown list of possibilities and filled with my Italian ID card number. Other infos are the same i already filled when registering my account on SL, which are name, address, date of birth.
Easy and fast.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:31 AM
Here we go.. Pushing Second life into Real life some more. Soon this should be renamed into Second Real life.
So much for what second life was supposed to be “a second life”
I can see many people who are 18 years and a whole lot older leaving over this.
Good way to destroy SL. Thanks LL yet agian you do more damage then good Can’t wait until some other company makes a better version of SL you’ll out of bunsiess then.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:32 AM
Two questions;
You state that Linden Labs does not share resident information for marketing purposes, does Integrity? They are the ones collecting my personal information.
Also, In the interests of anonimity, Do other residents see this information ? If I verify will other residents see my RL name, age gender,etc. . if it is just a verified / not verified field on the profile that may be acceptable
August 29th, 2007 at 5:32 AM
For one, i never intend to complete this “age verification”.
It’s a shame LL does this.
I do manage an larger SL company after all, and this forces me to rethink my stance in the SL community.
Thinking that the total i pay to LL monthly is on the 2,000USD range (via 2 accounts), might give an idea of the size of my business in SL.
This is total bullshit, you, me and everyone else knows that.
Unfortunately, the gambling ban lately, and this on top of it, might ultimately lead to the death of Second Life. Atleast, it has resulted to the death of Second Life as we know it. We, The Users. We, Who pays the LL’s salaries!
We have been betrayed with marketing gimmicks like, “Your imagination”, correct slogan should be like “Your imagination, into the extend we approve”.
All the recent activity from LL has forced many SL businesses to close-down, many to bankrupt, and some to quit because of ethical reasons, and there is no end in sight for this.
Big Brother is Watching YOU.
This is totally ridiculous. Where has common sense gone?
Since when TOS didn’t mean a thing?
TOS clearly outlines that users of SL are responsible for themselves, and L$ is “play money”, THUS, why this and gambling ban?
This is again a “business decision” right? A stupid one at that.
I know many great people have quit SL because of things like this, along with corruption inside LL, and along with the lacking customer service etc.
When is this going to stop? I say: Never, until SL is completely dead.
Into what GOOD will this result?
Hopefully, someday, resident run businesses can verify other person’s identity. That could help.
But the fact remains: This has more negative sides than positives. Negatives outweigh really hardly the positives.
Good bye SL as we know it.
Can we say also good bye to SL economy & SL business?
Might this lead to 0 or negative growth of SL? Possible.
A lot remains to be seen, to the worse or to the better.
One thing is certain however: Once again, no forewarning what so ever. This is sickening!
and never mind the usual LL tactic: post something bad, and within 10minutes, post something else to cover it up.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:33 AM
Hmmm This should be interesting. So the third party developing this IDV system for Linden Lab, will they have same policy of protecting our personal info? sure they don’t store the data but what do they do with it?
While it seems like a good idea and I am sure it is needed. I would caution everyone to be careful with just what exact information they share. Lets not forget some of us have been hacked several times in SL and have had credit card info comprimised. So security is only as good as those handeling the information.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:36 AM
integrity DOES NOT have the same policy as SL, read their site. i got to fuming when i did after they first reluctantly revealed them (then went silent till now fter the uproar).
I DO NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH INTEGRITY!!!!
and the “free for limited time” is an appeal to comsumer instincts to populate list fast and create resident consensus or the appearance thereof.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:37 AM
Quick little observation… and this is constructive critisism… what safeguards are in place to protect our information seeing that this is developed by a 3rd party. I am not trying to scare up anyone… But this is how people hacked Direct TV, ExpressVU and other user pay systems. 3rd party leaks are common in the business wolrd when 3rd parties are contracted to develop. Without going into specifics, what safeguards are in place?
August 29th, 2007 at 5:39 AM
I agree that the ‘free initially’ is an attempt to get people to use it. I am relactant to use this system until I see how it all works etc but would be even more reluctant to have to pay to use it.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:43 AM
@8 Kristin: The mention of gender was an example, and should that option become available it would be purely voluntary.
@18, 19 Muscrat and Chrysala: Integrity is contractually obligated to perform the matching service and that’s it. They will not store any personally identifying information, nor will we.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:43 AM
This is nothing about “Turst” As LL is trying to mask it as. its them wanting more perosnial info and that company INTEGRITY sells this kind of info. and LL is getting a cut form it.
its about money not really about age or idenity verifaction.
You all know how greedy LL is.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:44 AM
this is the beginning of the end of freedom, not only for SL but also for the whole web, it’s a sad day…
August 29th, 2007 at 5:44 AM
I agree with waterstar eilde, and would like to see some information about Aristotle. Whatever my personal feelings on this move are, I’d like to know a bit more about the company handling my personal details.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:46 AM
I guess this is the company they will use
http://integrity.aristotle.com/
August 29th, 2007 at 5:46 AM
No way I am not gonna give my personal details for verification. I don’t trust the stating that all data such as driverslisence or passportnr. won’t be stored. The american government is way over the line in the fight against terrorism by wanting to take control of everything. They allready own the data of our european internetbehaviour, they allready own important data like creditcardnr. and payments, passportnumr, etc. of european tourist. I don’t want them to own my personal data.
If this agverification thing influences SL too much, I mean if that means I cannot enter a lot of sims in future anymore it will mean for me unfortunately game over in SL.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:46 AM
the page for integrity on demand will not currently appear….
http://integrity.aristotle.com/index.php_option=com_content&task=view&id=24&Itemid=32.html
interesting that it be off today.
Robin: that’s not at all the impression i got from their site when i checked it last time… right when you revealed them as provider of IDV.
In fact i found their doublespeak quite disturbing and their connections moreso.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:47 AM
This is a funny discussion, maybe higher math, hihih. Minors are not allowed in SL, ehhh so why verifying then on age. It’s going to be quiet a challenge, because in the Netherlands we are not allowed to share a social security, passport or ID numbers via internet in anyway. Why can’t you setup a system as PayPal has or something, or submit a private security code connected to the account information, credit card or last numbers of a bank account.
Well, just a thought
August 29th, 2007 at 5:52 AM
[...] their ID verification system, as powered by Aristotle Integrity. The Linden Blog tells it all here. And it’s not good. Not good at [...]
August 29th, 2007 at 5:52 AM
i Want to know the method.
we give ll info. this generates a code where, and when is the info itself deleted?
just a code is kept on both sides? our info will be removed from system immediately after code generation? it lasts less than a couple minutes in the system any system, yours integrity’s or aristotle’s (aristotle sells personal data lists, folks…)?
if the case is any other than this it is unaceptable.
August 29th, 2007 at 5:57 AM
Who or what is Aristotle? If I would have to “trust” them I need more info about them, don’t you think…
August 29th, 2007 at 5:59 AM
And tell me, Lindens, do the people who use Second Life want this? Look at the comments here… How many people would leave? I wouldn’t want to verify with Integrity, that’s for sure.
What exactly is there to stay for? The stable grid? The lag-free zones? You’re gonna lose a lot of users, we’re not puppets and you can’t pull this crap on your userbase without their opinion.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:01 AM
We knew this was coming, and we knew they would attempt it anyways. So where shall we start… as a Canadian citizen, the following ID formats are unacceptable for online use:
- The ‘SIN’ (Social Insurance Number)
- Passport
- Driver’s license
As a Canadian, I cannot verify, and if this results in denial of services for a product which I initially purchased under a different contract (My simulator), I will be contacting my barristor to ask about recourse on the basis of nationality-discrimination. All other residents, I encourage you to do the same, on the basis that if Linden cannot provide a suitable, global solution for a global environment, then they should not undertake half-measures likely to destroy or damage the world we the residents have created for them.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:02 AM
this is bs, why don’t YOU ask more than a flippin’ e-mail address to enter the adult grid? what a nightmare this is going to be, might as well send invitations to the teen grid to come join. i’ll be looking for a new chat, one that at least has the good sense to protect the kids by requiring some cc or payment info. been here, done this…have the tbux to prove it, i will not stay in a chat where babysitting is compulsory.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:02 AM
Uhm.
> • What if I’m under 18? Minors are not allowed in Second Life. Please access Teen > Minors are not allowed in Second Life. Please access Teen Second Life to enjoy
> Second Life if you are under 18. Only Residents between the ages of 13 and 17
> will be allowed to access Teen Second Life.
Why do landowners still have to flag their lands as restricted, as there soon will be no minors left in SL?? Can we assume the the restricted flagging is a temp. stopgap for the intermediate time when not everybody is verified? Since that requirement will surely be the next logical step to implement.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:03 AM
All this does is shift responsibility from LL to the land owner. If you are a land owner, you have 2 choices - do not restrict and hope that no one in the entire real world will find anything on/in your land offensive, or play it safe and restrict your land to shelter yourself from all minors worldwide. DUH! Restricted will become the de-facto standard on the grid, unless the landowner has an army of lawyers available. So no, it’s not voluntary unless your only intent is to visit PG sims only.
Second, Aristotle is a politically oriented data-mining organization. This means they already have the identity of probably 70% of the US and 40% of the world population. Verify with them and they will add one more to their database. By verifying with Aristotle, you are confirming the info they already have is true, or providing them with new data that they will then sell to whoever pays. Oh and if you check their website, you will see that they are Patriot Act compliant. This means if any US government entity asks for info, they’ll turn it over without even an attempt at due process - no questions asked. US players - the IRS is a government entity, are you declaring your SL income???
Big Brother comes to SL!! You can thank their lawyers for this shift of responsibility. Looks like the landowners just got screwed - HARD!
August 29th, 2007 at 6:03 AM
#22 Robin Linden
How do you know they won’t store it?
Is it in the contract you have with them?
What penalties will be assessed if they do store it?
What remedies do we have if they store it, it gets hacked and we’re victims of ID theft?
Can we see the contract? Why not?
Also, who is paying them to do this verification? If it’s free or for a nominal fee, the residents aren’t paying them. Are you asking us to believe that LL is paying for possibly thousands of residents to be verified? Or, is Integrity’s payment the ability to develop a huge database of people to sell to whoever wants it?
August 29th, 2007 at 6:05 AM
Push this sorry excuse of “protection” through, and say goodbye to yet ANOTHER of your paying costumers.
My name, payment status and CC is more than enough. Any attempt at stating otherwise goes against the very existance of every cc-accepting PAY-2-USE service currently existing on the internet.
As for Integrity, a company that has been caught redhanded LEAKING private user information… No thanks, keep your filth to yourselves.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:05 AM
Once you’ve fought your way through the marketing hyperspeak, a couple of glaring ambiguities emerge. We are told that personal information provided will not be passed on, yet Robin talks about establishing trust by ‘removing a layer of anonymity for those they interact with’ and ‘details residents ‘may wish to share about themselves publicly’. Do you actually know whether you mean to keep all this information private, Robin?
Additionally, LL appears to be incapable of offering a precise definition of ‘Restricted Content’, which is about as descriptive as ‘Broadly Offensive’. As for ‘we trust that common sense will prevail’ - whose ‘common sense’, where, when? Any thinking person knows this such a supposition is highly subjective. Ah, but not to worry - we’ll throw that decision back on the residents, then leave it up to the narrow-minded wowsers in SL to AR anything they don’t like, absolving ourselves of any responsibility for the outcome.
Like Uechi, I’m in an age bracket where I’ve seen too much water pass under too many bridges to be all-trusting and leap at this wonderful opportunity. As for the transparently puerile device of threatening my hip pocket if I don’t do it while it’s free, it’s simply an insult to intelligence.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:05 AM
1984 is upon us. Fix bugs not add more hassles. People getting locked out for transactions, transactions that don’t go through. These ponzi scams they call Banking and Markets. These are what needs fixed looked into.
The community and economy have taken enough battering over the past few months, now to be hit with a verification system it will send the transactions per day down by half yet again.
All this security, rules and 3rd Party companies does not sound like something that would entice new users. Tis all getting very complex. I would have thought the feed back from the users was very clear on that.
There are so so many troubles with lack of security of personal information. Bleeding across databases, files being left in the trash, lost or stolen. Once again there are no assurances of Protection or Privicy. What is the process for securing this data? Prohibiting it from being used for marketing or election data?
Is Integrity an “age verification company”, a sub division of Aristotle a US Political polling firm the company doing the Verification as previously announced? If so their only selling point is “Insured and Guaranteed (merchants using Integrity, are indemnified for violations of laws relating to underage access)”.
Their only actual example of their work is Bud.tv which remains a joke. Any name, any zip and you get in. I am honestly disgusted that they would show it as an example and let it remain as so for over 3 months. Any 10 year old could walk through that. Seems to me that they are not quite what they say. Sounds like the mob and protection money.
The protection of voter data does not seem to be high on the list of Aristotle. Anyone with a creditcard can buy. Frightning they offer for a few $.
Where are the details about all this? Who is doing it? How responsible is this 3rd party company? What is their Track Record? What other systems have they done? This latest posting honestly tells us even less than before. Just another rattling of the cage. Are we goign to war? Who are the enemy?
Enough of big brother, let us have the plumber.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:05 AM
GOOD it has been so long since the last time this topic was talked about I thought it may have been dead….
Good all the nay Sayers can leave (more room for us that don’t live under the paranoid umbrella)….
Don’t you people ever get tired of predicting the end of SL????? What part of voluntary don’t you get? It means if you don’t like it or don’t want to use it then DON”T. Now if that stops you from doing something in SL you like then you have a choice but it is still a choice!
I am still waiting for SL to shut down after the first land removal.
I am still waiting for SL to shut down after the casino removal….
August 29th, 2007 at 6:06 AM
Don’t see the big problem here, but seems a lot of people are just looking for something to complain about always. It is a tool, use it if you want or don’t, that simple. True you get hesitant about giving your Drivers License info over, but really how many times in my life have I handed my ID to some bouncer at a bar, and they are even scanning them now, or as someone else said had this info photocopied and stored god knows where.
What would worry me is if this is a first step towards a mandatory system, but they have made no indication of that and for now I will take LL word on that. There have been many problems with the platform, but we are all still here for a reason, because you cant get this anywhere else. All in all I think LL has done a great job taking the lead and developing a unique platform and trying to protect that for all of us. Job well done Lindens….you do have some supporters out there.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:06 AM
OK, verified painlessly. Took all of about a minute with an Australian driver’s license. And as for the cost issue, I would imagine that LL are paying to use this service, not “taking a cut” for giving away our personal information.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:09 AM
“A beta of the IDV system is open initially to all estate owners from today, who are free to verify their identities. Once the beta period is complete the system will be available to all Residents. Access to Restricted parcels will be prohibited for non-verified avatars from that time.”
Where???
I’ll do it because I feel that I must. What I don’t understand is because SL is for people over the age of 18 WHY did we not put this information in WHEN we STARTED? Wouldn’t you want to verify someone coming onto SL to make sure they really are over the age of 18 before letting them come on anyways? And doesn’t this try to cover your ass by putting something, that should have been done from the begining when people signed up, on the backs of landowners? We put money in the pockets of LL by paying monthly tiers yet we are made responsible as LL washes their hands, covers their asses, and leaves the rest of us out to dry? Shady shady shady.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:10 AM
@ 35 etc
it’s not a tool. I lose access if i don’t use it. nothing voluntary there, i have access now, lose it once this is implememnted.
that’s like saying it’s not obligatory to turn on your pc, stop being silly.
this is a rule, not a tool. the ban list is a tol for land owners, this is a rule for residents. wake up.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:10 AM
Thank you!! Tired of these nine year-olds running around
August 29th, 2007 at 6:10 AM
[...] course the hue-and-cry has started already over in the comments on Identity Verification Comes to Second Life « Official Linden Blog. As an estate owner, I’m in the potential beta-tester pool, so I went ahead and tried it out. [...]
August 29th, 2007 at 6:10 AM
To reveal our ‘true’ selves? WOW! I only come here to live a virtual life , a second life. My RL has never been the issue of focus, in my imaginative little world. Who I am, the real person, is really nobody’s damned business. Are you sure this isn’t all being influenced by Homeland Security? Damn, there I go imagining things again! Oops!
August 29th, 2007 at 6:14 AM
In what countries will this not, work? What shall residents of these places do?
I think the PG/Mature stuff already is really hard to get correct around the world, with clashed between cultures already. I hope I will not need to provide any any more info to enjoy SL, not that I’m that secret My name and google will give you my rl name, address and much much more…. I strongly argue all land owners to think twice about this it’s not mandatory to ban people… It is mandatory for all residents of SL to be above 18.
The best method to stop this is not to play balls, this to ignore the possibility.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:14 AM
Will there be a way to verify you are over 18 but not give an exact age ….? I would like to go into area’s that maybe require verifacation , and do not feel it is anyone elses bussniess to know exactly how old I am .. Tho I do belive they should be albe to know for sure that, I am over 18… I didn’t come to SL , to share my R/L info with strangers .. LOL I came to have a “Second life” .. were I can be 25 or 2500 years old…
August 29th, 2007 at 6:15 AM
Just tried out the age verification form. It was my name, address, and last 4 of my SSN. Very non-traumatic and I’ve already given this same info to eBay, PayPal, etc. etc.
I don’t mind, so I did it. Other people do mind, so they don’t. Just don’t use businesses that require it if you have an issue with it… inside SL or out.
By analogy, lots of people also don’t want to use a credit card online, which is also their perogative and they choose to accept how that limits their dealings. My take is, you’re much more likely to lose your credit card number to some unscrupulous waiter in RL.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:16 AM
@38 Pepper:
The problem is that most these nine years old fuckers have the possibility to steal moms of dads id card…. If the not them self already is above 18 physically.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:17 AM
How will this show on a profile that a resident has verified?
August 29th, 2007 at 6:19 AM
@37
You loose access if a land owner decides he doesn’t want someone on his land that is not verified. You don’t loose access as soon as this is implemented only if the land owner decides to use this TOOL made available. And you can VOLUNTARILY decide what, if any, information to display.
A RULE would be everyone has to be verified, which I like that idea actually, maybe help with all of the idiots and greifers running around. Just make it voluntary to display my personal information.
I am not a fan of big brother at all, but its here and ain’t going away any time soon unfortunately.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:20 AM
I do not believe that this is necessary, and if implemented it should not include anything but “is this person over 18″. I don’t believe that Linden Labs should make it possible for people to be pressured to reveal *anything* about their real identities. If someone doesn’t want to be treated as a geezer or a kid (or a man or a woman, or an American or a Slav, or a human or a dog) that’s their call… not Linden Labs.
Note that I said ‘make it possible for people to be pressured to reveal’… not ‘require people to reveal’. Even if it’s not required people will be pressured to include real-life information in their profiles, and once that information is there for anyone to see it will be abused.
This is not a copy of your drivers license locked in a filing cabinet in a bar, this is your drivers license branded on your forehead.
If we could trust all however million people in Second Life with this information, then we wouldn’t need to log on with an alias at all. Second Life doesn’t even LET people log in with their real name, unless they’re very lucky. No, this is a tool to promote stalking and identity theft, not trust.
AT the very least, it should cost to get information OUT of the system, not to put information IN.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:20 AM
Hmm, Integrity actually doesn’t even discuss what they will do with information they gather about people they verify. They only say they won’t disclose customer’s information gathered at that website itself, nothing is said about the people they verify.
http://integrity.aristotle.com/index.php_option=com_content&task=view&id=45&Itemid=58.html
August 29th, 2007 at 6:21 AM
Hmmm…I need an ID to get in a bar true, the owner of that bar however does not make a copy of the info. on my ID after it’s presented, I think it’s fool hardy and dangerous to ask for such personal information in cyber space. Every intelligent entity I’ve heard from strongly advises that personal information NOT be given on line, and to beware of any agency, corporation, or entity asking for personal info. I can shop objectionable material, download age sensitive paraphenalia, and more on line without ever having to give more that credit card information. Why? because these businesses that are in the practice of protecting minors have excellent lawyers who have designed agreements to save them if someone underage views these websites. Kids are smart, they will always find a way to get in where they shouldn’t, I’m smart too, and no one will get my personal information. Sounds to me like LL should get a good contract attorney.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:21 AM
The concept is fundamentally flawed and dangerous as it instill false confidence:
The documents are verified, NOT the person submitting them. Most kids live with parents and have easy access to their parent’s identifications. Further more, unlike credit card usage, the parents are unlikely to ever know that their kids have used their IDs.
It is dangerous because land owners are going to operate on the misconception that the person has been verified, which it has not. Kids who want to get in 18+ areas are precisely the ones who are going to use their parents IDs to get in.
The only method of age/identity verification that works is “in situ”. Even banks have not figured out a secure way to do this without requiring a visit to a branch.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:21 AM
I am married to a Canadian and YES u can use your SIN# (SS#) on the internet we do it all the time when applying for credit cards on the net. Not sure where half these people get their information but it would be alot smarter to look it up and learn before posting things, but then again, its alot easy to gripe on a blog than research
August 29th, 2007 at 6:23 AM
“I’ll do it because I feel that I must.”
Why do you feel you must?
I won’t, and I urge you not to, unless something happens that forces you to. You don’t have to protest it, but don’t passively acquiesce either.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:23 AM
what garuntee do we have that this identity information is secure.? Does this mean that our rl names will be published on our profiles, and if so whats the purpose of having a sl name? cmon people this is ridiculous. first you tell us simulated gambling is not allowed. then u add voice to a fantasy game, now we have to tell the world who we are and air out our identities for any savvy thief to take and ruin our credit. lets get this mess sorted out lindens.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:25 AM
Provide info to enable trust…. So is the information we provide (reluctantly) going to be avaliable to all other residents and landowners, or will it be destroyed after verification? You seem to say both will be happening….and that’s just not possible.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:25 AM
“Verification will initially be free; as we roll out the system we expect there to be a nominal fee for Premium members, and a larger fee for people with Basic memberships.”
“A beta of the IDV system is open initially to all estate owners from today, who are free to verify their identities. Once the beta period is complete the system will be available to all Residents.”
As I am not an “estate owner”, just a common Resident,
how much do I have to pay to prove that I´m within legal age to use Second Life?
Why do only estate owners get the verification for free?
August 29th, 2007 at 6:27 AM
This is almost certainly illegal under UK and European Data Protection Acts. Are Linden Labs asking Europeans to behave illegally?
August 29th, 2007 at 6:27 AM
Since minors are NOT allowed on the Adult grid.. WHY do we have to guard against minors seeing “restricted content”… they arent allowed to BE here… it isnt OUR job to keep em out, LL.. its yours.. why punish us? this is the most amazingly ass backwards way of doing ANYthing that i have ever heard of.. you wont be getting my personal information.. now or ever…. i would love to get my 72 bucks back but fat chance that will happen eh? there will be an exodus… and i am hoping most content creators will refuse to restrict their stuff.. if they do, i have a feeling they will be losing major business … BAD MISTAKE LINDENS.. very very bad… you are making other online worlds look better and better all the time.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:27 AM
Well, so much can be said:
- On one hand no one, including Linden Labs needs lawsuits based on indecent exposure. That is the plainer aspect.
- Secondly, Linden and/or whoever it subcontracts with will then have a lot of information that can be used to make profiles, market research data, you name it.
- When one hears of Lindens playing with standard characters outside their Linden functions and using their knowledge to get an edge, isn’t it possible that they will get user data? Who checks this?
quote
Linden Lab will not be storing this data and nor will the third party verification specialist, Aristotle.
Well, that could be, I suppose… will anyone audit this? As you know, just 1 person in the loop has to make 1 copy. “Idoneous institutions” is really just a marketing term.
- Also, some appeal of this concept is that it is a definable world. One appears and is as chosen, within the provided options - the fact that RL data is provided kills this freedom.
-quote-
Identity verification will only be required “at this time” for access to restricted content.
Well, that is a big little expression in there. Indeed, as Zephy says, one estimates the pressure to comply will suddenly increase totally.
-quote-
Linden Lab does not share Resident data for marketing or other purposes, but does of course comply with requests from all governmental and regulatory authorities and with court orders including subpoenas.
Well, consistency check - if you don’t store information, how can you provide this?
Doom and woe.
Mykh
August 29th, 2007 at 6:28 AM
My main concern lies with what of our information will be given to another resident. I’m not playing games here, but other than determining that I am “of age”. my personal information is mine to control.
As for what is used. The last four digits of the SS# are often used to verify identity in the US when you are dealing with certain service providers both netwise and on the phone.
The lack of clarity is troublesome, but then I have found that geeks are often clueless about what the rest of us non-geeks find concerning. They aren’t less moral, they often just don’t have a range of life-experiences outside the screen that enables them to identify with the concerns of those that do. So I hope that LL will hear the real concerns of the real people behind the cleverly designed pixels.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:28 AM
Well, what if I just provide the information from someone else? For a kid it would not be that difficult to access his parents ID’s and use that as an identification method. It would actually make it more believable that they’re adults while in reality, they are not.
So personally? I don’t see how this system would ever work. LL will just collect a lot more personal information which can be used for datamining, combined with the behaviour of the related avatars within SL. I do value my privacy a lot and if I have to give it up just to be able to play SL, I *might* prefer to just have a refund for all my assets within SL and end my membership.
You only use it to verify my age? And no one is collecting this data for any other purposes? Can you guarantee this for a full 100%?
Same dilemma with Google. Google keeps track of all search queries and can relate them to specific IP addresses. Even better, it can track them to specific GMail accounts too when people are logged in to the web interface. And Google is using this to provide specific advertisements to visitors and for a lot more that we don’t know about. But age verification? It’s a good excuse but it still sounds like a data mining strategy to me.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:29 AM
Oh, by the way.
“What happens if I don’t flag my restricted content? We believe that most landowners will want to take steps to prevent minors being exposed to restricted content. All content creators and businesses are morally and legally responsible for their activities.”
Where are you getting this “most landowners” from anyway?
I don’t have any restricted content on my land or in my stores, I don’t believe most landowners have any restricted content on their land. I don’t believe most businesses have restricted content for sale. And I don’t think that you should be implying that “most landowners” should pay any damn attention to this at all.
August 29th, 2007 at 6:29 AM
Let’s see, Sensual…. at least half a dozen other Canadians have said it is NOT allowed, YOU say it IS allowed… so that makes all of THEM out of step and YOU right….
Perhaps we should consider that you and your husband are the ones doing wrong. Despite your protest that you have “researched” the information, you do not provide any evidence other than your say so, and you, it seems, are already in the wrong… Not the first time either, I’m sure…
It does Mama’s heart good to see that there are only a handful of the fanbois here, while everyone else sees things for what they are…
Yes, it does Mama’s heart good….. And Trolls need good heart feelings now and then…
August 29th, 2007 at 6:29 AM
Third party company?
What third party company? And where is their disclaimer about how they’ll treat our information. For once - and just for once - I’d feel more safe leaving my identity information with Linden Labs then with a third party. :d
August 29th, 2007 at 6:29 AM
I verified - umm.. yay?
Got this in my email, so I should still be annoymous right?
“We’ve engaged the services of a third party provider, Aristotle’s Integrity, who will match information that Residents provide with information available in public records. You will be asked to provide your name, geographic location, birthdate, and an ID that is specific to your country, for example the last four digits of your social security number if you’re American. We will not be storing any information except for a code that tells us there was a positive match. Integrity will not keep any identifying information about you.”
August 29th, 2007 at 6:29 AM
Once again…the lindens are pushing this issue…because of their policy of allowing anyone to create an avi, without controls, they now expect us to put our personal data at risk, to cover their asses.
How about providing some more information…like what will be LL policy the first time that we receive a solicitation from a third party because their third party company didnt keep it’s word and sold our data?…or….When someone’s identity is stolen, after providing this information to a GAME…what address should our attorney’s send the subpoena to?
I hate to beat a dead horse, but it is the game owners responsibility to keep people that are not of age to play the game OUT of the game…not just out of certain areas…it is not a landowners responsibility to do Linden La