I, for one, welcome our new avatar overlords
Thursday, July 12th, 2007 at 4:44 AM by: TorleyIn recent news, I was amused to be surfing the web and find out that Second Life’s been awarded the dubious distinction of being one of the “5 Worst Websites” on the Internet. By whom? None other than TIME, who also previously put Linden Lab CEO Philip Rosedale on their TIME 100 list of people “whose power, talent or moral example is transforming the world”.
I’m gettin’ mixed messages here! :O
Not to mention, we have a website (you’re looking at it right now!), and we can communicate with the web from inworld (e.g., profile Web tabs, the llHTTPRequest scripting call, etc.), but saying “Second Life is a website” is as accurate as saying “This bowl of fruit is a banana” or “The color red is the rainbow”.
The myopia is understandable. Really.
And at least we get some really kewl comics having fun with the “website” thang, like Sherman’s Lagoon:
But wait, there’s more!
I’m sure Hawthorne will love the new reflective water in our upcoming WindLight viewer:
A lot of today’s media coverage of Second Life will be laughed about in years to come — and I certainly don’t mean dripping sarcasm, but a pleasant retrospectacle more along the lines of a gleeful, “Honey, remember that’s what it was like when we first met!”
While Second Life is unique in many ways, there’s precedent for interpretation of events as they’re being lived to be quite different from how we see them when looking back. I’m not just talking about big hair in the 80s, either — watch this video about the “growing phenomenon of Internet”.
And things that were once perceived as being bizarre, we’ve gradually gotten used to. For example, our abundance of user-created content isn’t such a crazy concept as it was 5 years ago. Even Photoshop filters are taking advantage of this model. Not unlike how Apple’s innovations have become ubiquitous delights (I’m sure some of you are enjoying your shiny new iPhones), Second Life is traveling past the troughs of ”novelty”. Science fiction is becoming the casual everyday…
(Another raw shot taken inworld, with no post-processing.)
Speaking of sci-fi, I’m often reminded that Second Life is a strange sort of soul-searching mirror, in that what you say about SL tells a story of who you are. After all, let’s not forget that TIME’s person of the last year is “You“, and again, they specifically mentioned us:
And we didn’t just watch, we also worked. Like crazy. We made Facebook profiles and Second Life avatars…
While it’s as obvious as water is wet that Linden Lab’s a for-profit business, it’s also true that there are the finer things in Second Life which money can’t buy:
- We can’t endow you with an insatiable curiosity, but we can enable creative tools to inspire you to rediscover your childhood passions — and share them with newfound friends.
- We can’t find the love of your life, but we can listen and respond to your ideas for making it easier to connect to other Residents who share your interests.
- We can’t fix all the damn bugs (which we abhor too) in a single day, month, or even years, but we can commit to making progress and communicating regularly to you about issues, such as when there are problems on release day. And beyond this, because Second Life is so, well, you-driven, through triages and other means, we can open up more possibilities for you to be involved in shaping our future.
The TIME blurb is accurate in pointing out some of the problems we have, which we continue to work on. Yet it asks:
We’re sure that somebody out there is enjoying Second Life, but why?
How would you answer this? Let me know in the comments.
And see you in Second Life,
Torley Linden is a Product Manager & more who regularly contributes to the Official Linden Blog. He/she/it breaks pronouns. Read Torley’s previous posts, and if you liked those WindLight snapshots, there’s more here.
July 12th, 2007 at 4:52 AM
The immediacy of our issues sometimes makes us overlook tht bigge picture we’re part of.
July 12th, 2007 at 4:55 AM
PFFFT, what do they know anyways? What do they actually base their definition of ‘best man of year’ off of?
If you ask me, they are grasping at straws for that one.
I’m having fun on SL doing the things that normal everyday life doesn’t let me do. Like run around with a plasma rifle on my back. And be a ninja. Yes, some games allow you to do this, but those games also do not have the same kind of interaction between players that I crave and so this game is the wonderful balance between them.
If TIME has a problem with the above statement, they can kiss my shiney metal *Expletive*
July 12th, 2007 at 4:55 AM
OK, but the website is not a website its a modificated wordpress
So they are right. The website is a cheap one.
Some companies have realy artwork you cannot compare with this blog
July 12th, 2007 at 4:56 AM
Torley,
rofl
Forget about Time other publications are praising SecondLife for the inventiveness and educational oppurtunites that SecondLife provides. I say keep up the good work on your “website.”
Website - really Time Magazine you really need to get in world to see what SecondLife is before making stupid comments.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:04 AM
I wholly disagree with time. SL is incredible, and full of potential.
I just find a few little flaws here and there, like WHY CAN’T WE CONTROL AVATAR SHAPES AND CLOTHING VIA SCRIPTS
T_T
I really hope that functionality is coming soon. It’s been at the top of my wishlist forever.
https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/SVC-345
Tons of avatar improvements. in that jira. Please do vote on the linked issues.
I come to SL because of the endless possibilities. So few people seem to notice that we all have…
Flight
Telekinesis
The ability to fabricate materials from nothing
Super human strength
Immortality
I love the abiolity to affect and control the fabric of the world around me. THe ability to remake something as I wish so easily. I do also like the fact that I can earn nice sums of money from my talents.
I really don’t care what time, or any magazine says.. I’m sticking with SL.
^_^
July 12th, 2007 at 5:05 AM
While I admire this well thought response to TIME, I also think it’s fruitless as my personal opinion is many people who spend time on Second Life would rather read this blog, than read TIME itself. I don’t understand the defence in itself, really. At the end of the day, someone has their opinion, you guys have yours. I would hope people don’t take SL too seriously, as much as they don’t take TIME seriously either. Just my two cents worth.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:05 AM
Wow. I think this person who wrote the TIME article is confused. Uhh…Second Life isn’t a website. There is a website FOR SL but I seriously think this writer believes that SL is running in his web browser or something.
I also like how he calls SL more pathetic than playing World of Warcraft. Since when is playing WoW pathetic? Sounds like someone has a grudge against online entertainment. Someone should tell him to see a therapist. =O
July 12th, 2007 at 5:06 AM
Why would someone enjoy SecondLife? Because there are no limits other than one’s ambitions, creativity and willingness to learn. It is a fantasy life enjoyed in the first person to put it simply.
I can build my dream house, hit several parties a day, hang out with Vampires, visit a battle sim, wear designer clothes and goth up every day. You become involved in communities, make friends and hold down a job if you wish…or don’t if you prefer not to.
I have to wonder if anyone from TIME has actually tried out SecondLife for any length of time…sure the bugs suck, but for me they are definitely worth working around.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:07 AM
Anylyn, the blog is only apart of the website. The off world website that we are currently on has been well developed to introduce SecondLife to the uninformed and provides users with access to account information as well as support with issues. While in world we can access the net through profile websites. Even the SLurl link off world to in world.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:08 AM
one of the 5 worst? why am i not surprised? yes, its true you canot fix all the bugs, but perhaps a slowdown or total stop on new shineys that make those lingering bugs worse, and a complete concentration on the ones that are immediate, would help.
i do appreciate what has been done so far, dont get e wrong, i like the fact you are finally getting a handle on the memleak thing. but costumer service remains a joke, landbots continue to make land buying a chore, blatant(in some cases) copybot issues are still cropping up here and there, and the biggest noogie of them all(so far) is the court case(s?) against LL. not to mention the glaring contradictions in your main page website catchphrase, A virtual world created and owned, by its residents, against the ever evolving to serve, suit and protect LL only ToS.
want to be taken seriously? listen to the people who matter: those of us who put you on the map, your residents.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:14 AM
Well said Torley. I am one of those who is enjoying Second Life. Why? How much time do you have? Every day is a new day and a new adventure. My only limitation is my own imagination. {:o)
July 12th, 2007 at 5:14 AM
> We’re sure that somebody out there is enjoying Second Life, but why?
Because it gives me new ways to express myself and my creativity; new ways to experience/enjoy interesting things made by other people; new ways to interact with other people and make things with them/together. And, it enables me to shape and modify these new ways to express myself & interact.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:16 AM
“Why enjoy Second Life?”
Why enjoy ANY life?
Anyone can figure that out. Oh, wait, this is TIME magazine: Renowned for non-factual reporting and half-baked editorials.
Yah, sure, we got bugs and maybe SL is one big beta test of the net-to-come. We savor the challenge!
July 12th, 2007 at 5:18 AM
Wow! Who wrote that piece in Time? Somebody invested in Entropia?
July 12th, 2007 at 5:21 AM
We’re sure that somebody out there is enjoying Second Life, but why?
why? why?………becouse it is amazing…that’s WHY………thank you Lindens.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:22 AM
both comic links link to the same strip….
maybe time werent that far off the mark? :s
July 12th, 2007 at 5:23 AM
both comic links link to the same strip….
maybe time werent that far off the mark? ;S
July 12th, 2007 at 5:24 AM
Time sure seems to be biteing a bit more then they should be there. sure SL might have its flaws, might have its ups and downs (and might I add random crashes and the typicaly Update week of chaos) but that don’t stop builders from building often, or scripters from scripting. just delays us. If Time wants to sit here and say the site is junk (which for most parts the actual WEBsite needs a little work but thats just my very honest and humble opinion here) The program itself granted buggy and at times a pain is still fun and still alot of great times to be had for me.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:25 AM
Just another reminder of old media’s continuing march into irrelevance. Good catch Torley, I really enjoyed this!
July 12th, 2007 at 5:25 AM
well i must say that i like sl very much since i am in sl i have experienced only positive things. so as it has been already said people have to look at the bigger picture and not only to the things that needs to be fixed in sl . all i hope is that linden can fix the bugs that need to be fixed so we can continue enjoying our secondlife everyday.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:28 AM
@ 10: more like Media’s chance to actualy try and talk abunch of nonsence that makes actualy no sence at all here (as if my own typeing does at times I don’t know but you get the hint)
July 12th, 2007 at 5:30 AM
I have read the postings here. I find them interesting but somewhat off topic.
I love SL. I want LL to concentrate its efforts on making SL better and better. And. lest I lose this opportunity, customer support, I agree, is abysmal. The website is functional. That’s all I need.
I appreciate SL. I applaud your efforts in-world. The outside world? Eh! Get a life!
July 12th, 2007 at 5:30 AM
We’re sure that somebody out there is enjoying Second Life, but why?
/me heh(moron that later)
Visually, this vast virtual world can be quite impressive,
/me (SL racks ONE point)!
but it’s notoriously slow to load
/me aye, and you’re a notorious unloader?
(it runs on free software you have to download)
/me gasps!
and difficult to navigate, even with a broadband connection.
/me sure if you’re a chimp or a chump or a…?
You interact in the space through an avatar,
but creating and personalizing this animated representation of yourself is tedious.
/me thinks one spent all ones time in SL in vainity land tweaking one AV to realist perfection(lmtd)
Movements feel clunky and there can be a terrible lag.
/me um, that would be all that baggage haning off your backside.
As on many sites, there’s a learning curve for novices, but Second Life’s is simply too steep.
/me as i said before he didn’t stick around long enough to “get it” (his loss)
And there are crazy people around every corner — disruptive types that spread graffiti and get in your way and throw you off your groove.
/me and this differs from FL how?
Fans (the two that I met when I wasn’t primping my AV)
praise Second Life as a virtual hangout where you can meet and chat and buy sneakers and real estate (that’s fake stuff for real money)
and dance and go bowling and have sex —
suggesting that “virtual humans” doing “human things” online in Second Life is somehow less pathetic than, say, cooking Kaldorei spider kabobs or making magic pantaloons in World of Warcraft.
/me HEY, DON’T DIS THE KABOBS UNTILL YOU’VE TRIED THEM.
The corporate world’s embrace of the place as a venue for staff meetings and training sessions does seem to lend Second Life a layer of legitimacy. But maybe it’s a case of some CEOs trying too hard to be hip.
/me I think we all know who’s tring to hard to be what they can’t…
Sorry, just HAD to get that out of the way, y’all who know me know why i love SL.
and if ya don’t know me, well it’s high time ya did.
*lmtd =laugh myself to death
July 12th, 2007 at 5:31 AM
Why would I enjoy Second Life? Sometimes I wonder if I do…and sometimes that is frequently….but I have not gone anywhere. I have been in SL almost everyday for almost 3 years with days that stretched about 10-11 hours every day for the first 2 years but now are scrunched into 5 because of RL demands.
Where else would I have rediscovered that I still could “make” things, get pushed into learning software programs that I had no idea existed or had any application to me, met people from all over the globe from every facet of life, been interviewed on radio or for magazines and newspapers, re-found my old profession and been able to use those skills again when I can not work in RL? Several people have said to me, “Who would have thought that a ‘game’ would teach me scripting?”
SL CAN be a “killer/crusher.” The speed at which your life moves in SL is RL magnified 10 times. You have no control over whether the person you trust is telling the truth or will even be there the next day. You have no contact if someone disappears who has chosen not to share RL information. You dont know the hows or whys. You dont know if the skills and projects you work on today in SL will be the same or even exist tomorrow. In other words, SL can be ambiguous and magnify the lack of control you have over so many things you have contact with. I think that is why the issues with the LL-resident views are so strong…we as residents are not used to dealing with the unknown/lack of control as much as we encounter in SL. In RL, we can take measures to fix what is wrong or to move beyond to create a new situation. In SL, we are at the mercy of LL. And, without good communication or a feeling that the issues are taken care of, that anxiety escalates.
On the other hand, SL teaches patience and delayed gratification. It teaches us to look at our weaknesses and our strengths in a very focussed way. It allows us to explore new avenues of being and growing. It causes pain but it also creates the opportunity for new expression and knowledge. So, when it comes down to the final line,
SL is about GROWTH.
And, growing sometimes hurts.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:31 AM
More people read and are influenced by tabloid papers than people influenced by Second Life. Fact. The person who wrote this article was influenced by media, for example. This website is an example of “media”. Do you know what “media” is?
July 12th, 2007 at 5:36 AM
Second Life so far strikes me as a very narrow niche Mr Torley. People who want to express themselves as much as possible. Thats a very specific niche that can only be found in Second Life. So we got bashed by the mainstream. So what the hey. If World of WarLevelGrinding wants to wallow in their muck of mainstream let them be. Second Life should strive to be what its always been. The Niche for people who want to express themselves
July 12th, 2007 at 5:37 AM
TY, Zen…
July 12th, 2007 at 5:37 AM
Check out the entire list of 5, it really gives you a sense of the mindset of the person who poo-pooed SL. I dislike several of those websites too, but I would hardly consider them the worst of the web. And besides, my beef with this or that site is just my opinion; they are all among the most popular websites for social connections. Seriously, that’s the common thread in all of them: they are very popular websites for enabling/enhancing social connections.
Clearly the person who compiled that list just has some sort of grudge against social networking online, plus it is staggeringly elitist for them to say “sure millions of people love this, but it’s one of the worst, trust me.”
July 12th, 2007 at 5:38 AM
To quote a friend….
“It’s like being five years old again…
…but….
… there is no one there to call you in for dinner”
Magi.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:39 AM
After reading through the article, it does hold a valid point. The good point about Second Life lies between the keyboard and the chair, I’d say. The community and way everyone interacts is the only reason I bother with SL, but technologically, I’d have to say Second Life’s engine is a bloody mess.
In fact, I couldn’t help but laugh when I found out that Phillip used to be the Chief Technical Officer for the same company that developed RealPlayer, I think that’s when it all really made sense to me.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:41 AM
Very nice, Tory. Good to see a blog like this once in a while.
With all it’s bugs and contraversy (forgive the spelling), I really love SL and met quite a few r/l friends here. It’s the only place my r/l girlfriend (who lives overseas) and I can actually feel like we are going out together. And I’ve created and am running my dream business.
So yeah, I love it here.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:45 AM
MySpace is in there too. TIME say “don’t use MySpace”. Kinda undermines the credibility of the list.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:46 AM
>> you can meet and chat and buy
>> sneakers and real estate (that’s
>> fake stuff for real money)
Fake stuff for real money? Sounds like the stock market to me.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:48 AM
If Second Life is a website. Then Wow is one too. As well as Die Hard 4 I guess. And the United Kingdom (they have a website, so they are a website)
July 12th, 2007 at 5:48 AM
They are saying that Second Life HAS a bad website, not that Second Life IS a bad website.
The SL website is poorly laid out, nonintuitive and difficult to navigate.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:48 AM
Well, Time wasn’t that bad, they didn’t mention the bugs, but they did the lag, but we all know that, right? lol
And I don’t find changing anything with my av tedious, but they are right on a steep learning curve, and complete lack of documentation on many things, especially everything in the Client and Server menus. On another site, there were interesting comments on what people thought Cheesy Beacon was, for example.
And I’ll take issue with Photoshop filters, they were around an awful lot earlier than SL, as you must well know Torley lol. Sure, that link makes it easier to create them, but it’s not the first software to do that.
And sure, you can’t fix all the bugs in one go, but you do have to be careful about introducing 400 more bugs per month than you can fix (previous post here). But it is great that finally you do seem to be finally listening, probably the greatest change yet
Mmm, well we still have emoticons, somethings don’t change, but the bad language has
So, why do I love it? Well, it is a good combination, creative skills, education, meeting people, the freedom to explore and try new things, albeit it virtual, that you might not get a chance to do in RL. And maybe because of SL, you will try in RL. It is addictive too, but I’d better be quiet about that in case of more lawsuits
And those pesky bugs? Well maybe SL is educational in more ways than one, training me to cope with frustration and stress, to have endless patience, and not go bald pulling my hair out. And there’s the excitement of waiting to see what has been borked with every new update.
It’s a voyage of self-discovery. Maybe I’m just a masochist at heart
July 12th, 2007 at 5:49 AM
Quite frankly, I find it immature of you (Torley) or anyone from Linden Lab to post something to refute what some idiot magazine might think about your WordPress Site.
This clealy shows the “young” thinking in the company, that you think you have to defend something as silly as TIME Magazine articles that might slight Second Life in the smallest degree, and quite frankly, they were talking about your WORDPRESS site, NOT the SL World itself.
Perhaps a more productive use of your time would be setting up an in-world BUG REPORTING office, so those people who are filing bugs without repro steps could get the needed help to file them correctly, and then the rest of your BUG SQUASHING crew won’t just ignore them because they didn’t follow your step-by-step instructions. Actually, perhaps you should put that qualifier on the WORDPRESS site, so people will know they are just wasting their time when they don’t do it according to hoyle.
Of course, let’s not forget my personal favorite, that BUG FIXING is now a votable option with the community. Let’s forget all those nasty memory leaks, since most in the community won’t vote for them, or the crashing bugs, or the assett server bugs, et al. The community gets to vote on the BUGS to be fixed, and I suppose that means your team will just sit around doing nothing when only 5 people vote on something and you can say, “Not enough voted for it”. Tell me Torley, just HOW MANY votes does it take to fix a bug in SL now? IF you and your team keep putting qualifiers on actionable issues, then you should really tell the WHOLE community WHAT those qualifiers are, so we can all see just how much you don’t want to do.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:50 AM
I agree with comment #16, “it is staggeringly elitist for them to say sure millions of people love this, but it’s one of the worst, trust me.”
As the name Second Life imply, the platform itself doesn’t aim at a particular way of living in-world, but rather be totally free to “live” as you want, following the example of real life, people build their own world according to what they really are, the disruptive and immoral aspect is rather aimed at those who perpetrate such acts, in my opinion.
As for the website there is about as much lag as any news website with no lag, there sure can be downtime moments, but its nothing more than what most big websites undergo, in my experience.
From here for sure, thumbs up for Second Life!
July 12th, 2007 at 5:54 AM
>> They are saying that Second Life HAS
>> a bad website, not that Second Life IS
>> a bad website.
That’s what I assumed before I read the article, but all they did was complain about the in-world experience.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:54 AM
They sort of have a point. When I first started this I found the web site a bit confusing and hard to use. Now I like it very much and can find most of the things I need relatively quickly. The sl web site is designed for regular users and not for new comers. Now that I know my way around I would not like to see it changed, but it would make for a better experience for new people if it were organized differently.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:56 AM
There are those who ‘get it’ and those who don’t. My RL BF tells me wonderful stories about how Windows 3.0 was dismissed as a complete joke back in 1990 by his consulting firm. DOS was forever they said. Better yet, no one was interested in an office pool to guess the date of breaking through the 100Mhz barrier. “Not in our lifetime,” was the curt reply.
July 12th, 2007 at 5:57 AM
First of all……
Though I have a really crappy computer…..
Though I rarely get much sleep anymore….
Though I should be doing laundry…
I still LOVE my Second Life…where else can you be a Fairy one day, and a Pirate the next? Where else can you meet and communicate with people from all over the world without leaving your living room?
The potential for Second Life is enormous…..especially for education…
I’m thankful that I’ve been able to discover it for myself and I truly believe that we’re all part of what will come to be known as a historic time in the development internet communication.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:01 AM
In a nutshell - Narrow minded journalists.
Of course they are entitled to their opinion, but they know zilch about the Metaverse let alone the Universe.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:02 AM
I’d have thought this should have been reserved for your personal blog to be quite honest.
Unless of course the opinions you’ve advanced are those of Linden Lab?
You have a problem there. Allowing partisans of a non-news media company to make private remarks concerning a news media company’s editorial concerning your company on their own private blog is one thing - private comment.
Making those comments on your company’s blog using your company identity is something else.
Unprofessional for a start, as the intent is open to interpretation.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:02 AM
I think there is a few basic issues that this kind of negative PR uses to brush things off and it’s that the first impressions aren’t particularly good. When people judge SL on the first five minutes they pretty much always say;
1) Avatar movement is laggy.
2) Avatars are ugly.
3) Animation looks bad.
4) User interface is ugly.
Some progress was made recently on point number two, although only about half as far as it should have gone. The UI isn’t too bad but is nowhere near as clean or slick as it could be (How about copying Apple there?).
These points REALLY need to be addressed to improve the new user experience and if LL wants to avoid people being able to make these five minute judgements, it would also seriously help retention.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:04 AM
can u Childs from SL or LL or what ever please reopen the viewer 1.17.0.12?
was the best in the last 3 weeks
gnnnnnnn
best for u to learn is, see whats in my tummy… will give it to you face
July 12th, 2007 at 6:05 AM
We’re sure that somebody out there is enjoying Second Life, but why?
Next week I will celebrate my first SL birthday. This last year has been a massive learning curve as I learned first to move my clumsy less than sleek self around the world, then stopped in shock and some delight upon discovering some of the things this world can contain. My steps restarted and smoothed out once I started making friends. That has been the biggest thing for me. The connections are what makes this a real world to me. Each day I meet people from around the world: newbies, oldsters, griefers, people looking for cyber sex, shoppers, sellers, builders, scripters, dancers - just people doing normal people things but on a scale magnified beyond belief.
Where else in this world can you exercise superhuman powers (ala @3 War Kirby above), design, create and implement your own environment, learn anything and everything you can imagine from people who give their skills freely and willingly and in a friendly fashion, explore repressed fantasies without shame, build a house in the sky or underwater and FLY!
Napoleon Bonaparte said “The human race is governed by its imagination”. Second Life is born every day from everyone’s imagination. And I love it.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:06 AM
LOL the person who put Secondlife on the worst websites came in as a noob, took forever to get out of help island because their HUD wouldnt load, couldnt get a job because they didnt have any nice clothes or skin, probably got orbited by a griefer being in the wrong place at the wrong time and maybe tried to hit on a pretty girl and got the shaft. So this person from Time thought, this sucks! lmao
July 12th, 2007 at 6:06 AM
why?,,, not sure I do enjoy it much anymore. I have a business I devoted alot of time effort and dedication to. but it’s become a massive chore of late. inventory missing, recent items growing, crashing, lagging, textures jumping, boots and hair up my rear end - the list goes on.
do i love SL, yes
do i hate that every upgrade brings me closer to leaving SL, yes
you can’t fix every bug, true
-but you can fix the ones that prevent our ability to function well before introducing new fluff that bring more bugs
I think if you are getting mixed signals you should take a closer look inward as to why and not outward at us.
we know why and we know you know we know
July 12th, 2007 at 6:07 AM
Well well I see not a single Time/Warner website made the list ! Hehehehe This is just an attempt by some chuckleheads at Time /Warner to disparage some popular sites for finacial reasons..
July 12th, 2007 at 6:08 AM
One has to look at the Time list in context.
They don’t slate everything for being “bad”.
For example on Evite.com, they say “We’re only mad at Evite because we need it so much, and we know it could be so much better.”
The same could be said of SL.
I know I say it a lot!
For myself, I KNOW that SL is brilliant!
Why? - Because I spend way too much time here. I don’t suffer fools gladly or in silence. I deeply resent people or things wasting my time.
But I need my SL fix! Every day. Losing SL would be like losing a part of myself.
It’s the easy facilitation of creativity that does it for me.
I wish SL wasn’t so laggy/buggy. I wish LSL could have more power. But I’m still here
I can’t speak for the purely consumerist folk who might want to use SL only as a social networking and entertainment ’site’ on the Interwab thing.
Maybe for them, the killer app aspect is the chance to see and experience the sort of end-user creativity that corporations will never produce.
There’s great user-built content in there, and the price for that is the ugly tat and moronic behaviour that also happens. SL is an amplifier for creativity. It is also an amplifier for other human traits
“We can’t fix all the damn bugs (which we abhor too) in a single day, month, or even years,..”
Torley??? Years? Plural(s) Nooooooooooooooo!
You just got carried away with that bit of prose didn’t you?
Next time, start at hours and stop at months. It will make us feel better.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:08 AM
Having worked both in the mainstream media and online media for some years it become my opinion that many writers in the mainstream are absolutely terrified by the coming of truly interactive environments. There have rarely in the immeadiate past history been a group of people such as Second Life Residents who have created something so unique as what we currently have.
It may not be perfect
It may not be totally realistic
But
It is ours
and the worlds
Being one of the “RL Older” Residents of SL has shown me that indeed, This is the web of the next 50 years.
The use of this environment for education, entertainment, social interactivity, cultural interchange and a variety of other application is indeed a step towards a true interactive environment.
I for one appluad the people behind Second Life.
As for Time magazine…we all pick it up in a doctors waiting room…..but how many of us buy it these days.,….
and i so advise
July 12th, 2007 at 6:09 AM
I brave the sim crashes and viewer pauses because i love what i do in SL. When my secondlife friends come to me and say things like “That was such a laugh” or ” When are we gonna go on another adventure??” it makes it all worth while. I have it in me to create not just buildings and textures, but events and memories that i can share with those i meet in SL. SL is not the same for everyone, i guess it depends on your way of thinking.
I hope to be here in SL in 3 years time still having fun, DJ’ing, making new friends, having more adventures, setting off on more expeditions to new Sims. And im sure i’ll still be involved with the politics of being a Child Av.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:10 AM
get out the open source from SL and it will work again , lets try. lets go back a half year before ” too many cooker will make the food unaccessible”
July 12th, 2007 at 6:11 AM
@inigo: You can think what you want, but damn, it was *classy* anyway.
In fact I’d love other companies to *always* respond to criticism like this, rather than hiding themselves in a shroud of silence.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:11 AM
TIME’s comments about the Second Life “website” are quite obviously the product of someone who simply doesn’t care for the SL experience and managed to ram through his/her opinions when TIME compiled the list. Torley is being overly-generous in his assessment. I read the TIME comments and they have nothing to do with the SL
website–they are talking about the game itself, which is not a website (meaning an HTTP site). While I might have to agree that the SL website itself isn’t the most attractive or efficient or useable, it’s not -that- bad, but it does not matter because TIME just wanted to take a cheap shot at SL/LL. Whether their comments are justified or not, I think it shows a serious lack of journalistic integrity to “mix your metaphors.”
July 12th, 2007 at 6:13 AM
funny how only until someone from the outside looking in makes a unflattering remark about SL does all the resident SL critiques rally behind LL in support. Kind a like family eh?
July 12th, 2007 at 6:13 AM
quoting the anonymous Times reporter who was probably nigh-on-tooooo desperate for a 5th site for his/her muckracking top 5 list (notice how while they have a top 25 best sites list, they only have a top 5 worst list).
“You interact in the space through an avatar, but creating and personalizing this animated representation of yourself is tedious.”
just fyi, for the price of a typical lunch in san fran (about USD $15), you can get a *really* nice looking *custom* photorealistic avatar based on your RL face and/or body. o_O (Click on my name!)
also, it’s interesting to note that the 5 worst sites happen to be some of the 5 most popular websites on the net.
i suppose that’s Time’s way of “creating (notorious) news” while doing minimal damage… knowing that the millions already involved with stuff like myspace (yes, myspace made their top 5 worst list!) and SL won’t stop because of a few words from a confused n00b posing as a Times reporter.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:14 AM
Torley,
You could have used a webcomic that also appears in-world
See Kevin & Kell (online at http://www.herdthinners.com or in-world at http://slurl.com/secondlife/Cassowarry/109/180/57).
Bill Holbrook has done a whole series of strips regarding ‘Ninth Life”.
Ask MichaelFrancis Linden - he’s a fan.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:15 AM
IMHO, many of the criticisms of second life are based in a stark, obvious ignorance of what Second Life is, how it works and the opportunities it affords its users.
Torley’s point regarding the ‘website’ description is a prime example. There are many other manifestations of such ignorance - I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s been asked by a noob. ‘How do I get to win this game?’. Such people are thinking - a few clicks of the mouse, shoot a few bad guys and you win or lose then look for another game.
No. SL isn’t like that. SL is a living, growing thing! It’s ALIVE!
It seems to me that people sometimes forget that just as in RL, in SL you tend to get what you give. If you make an effort to learn, to understand and communicate, to create and to give - then rewards are often forthcoming.
And so to answer Torley’s question - I love second life because of the different people I meet. I love Second Life for it’s moments of sheer side-splitting, slapstick comedy. I love Second Life’s ability to suddenly transform the most ordinary situations into fantastic, surreal, dream-like sequences and events. I love the serendipity of Second Life. I love the dancing! I love the music! I love the flirting:) I love the lessons patiently and most often, generously given for free by tutors at classes. I love the bizarre avatars, I love seeing the different ways people express themselves. I love the way I often find myself grinning from ear to ear when in-world, I love falling off my chair with laughter.
I love the anarchy in SL. It seems to me that the SL environment encourages people to ‘rule themselves’ and to show respect for each other in ways that other methods of online communication cannot even begin to approach.
I do not watch TV (the ‘tragic lantern’), I don’t have one in my house and I only very rarely watch films. Personally, I feel that life is way to short to sit like a sponge, soaking up other people’s experiences and ideas in a non-interactive way.
I enjoy Second Life because it’s like watching and interacting with the birth of a whole new way for humanity to get together.
SL is part of my RL and I love life!
July 12th, 2007 at 6:18 AM
Smarmy oh-aren’t-we-all-too-kewl-for-our-laptops quote from some anonymous TIME staffer:
“We’re sure that somebody out there is enjoying Second Life, but why?”
Why?
Because I’m an artist, and SL is my canvas.
Why?
Because I suffer a rather debilitating disability, and SL gives me the opportunity to be social (and sociable) in ways I don’t get in RL.
Why?
Because in a world that is less and less under our personal control, SL is a world where we ARE in control. Well, except for the bugs. And the rolling restarts. And the way my airships derez when they enter a full parcel. And… okay, okay, I’ll stop now…
Said anonymous writer(s) whines about the ‘learning curve’ and the way things take time to do. Me, I don’t need instant gratification. The minimal effort required to master SL is amply repaid, in my opinion, and the added effort one can put into learning content creation even more so. Maybe he/she/they should have done more than spend seventeen minutes on Help Island, ne?
Oh, well. It isn’t like TIME is the influence they used to be, anyway. Maybe that’s why their writers are so snarky sometimes, and why they’re less and less in touch with what real (or virtual) people really think, eh?
Must dash. Just had a killer idea for a new skin, and Photoshop awaits…
July 12th, 2007 at 6:19 AM
oops i forgot to answer your question.
ok, why i love SL
— because i ran Heaven Above the Clouds for 6 months, and this blog isnt big enough to describe all the really great times we had there with our events and house DJ because of all the cool things i built on my island
and more stuff— CASINOS! :D, being able to sell your lindens, Shopping, yard sales, skyboxes, sailboating, driving police cars, weapons, eyeballs, hair, sounds, dances, chatting, promiscuous people, people who cuss randomly, funny names for stuff, spider avitars, self expression
why i hate SL — A**HOLES!!!, bitches, stalkers, pedophiles, not being able to IM your groups without getting errors, — the voting system that nobody knows how to use, LAG, INVENTORY LOSS!!!
July 12th, 2007 at 6:19 AM
* mod to previous post link: http://slface.com
July 12th, 2007 at 6:20 AM
While they have the standard clueless complaints about users being the stereotype geeks hunched over in their parent’s basement rather than having a real First Life, they’re are spot on about the problems with lag and playability. They need to overhaul the entire infrastructure to deal with the lag and stability problem, or more people will bolt to other online venues. So far, the main thing keeping SL popular is it’s social emphasis, rather than shoot’em and advance to the next level style.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:20 AM
#39, why the LL doing nothing for their customers?
nothing means= nothing
all failures from last 6 month are still here, mean all failures they are in the SL and not owned by the user-system
what the hell these bandits LL thinking they are?
they do nothing and bring in the pest with open source to SL and multiplicate all failures with that
sl cant work properly with open source before the failures from before where cleaned up
but the LL-childs have enough money so they run away from their biggest failures
July 12th, 2007 at 6:20 AM
“This ‘telephone’ has too many shortcomings to be seriously considered as a means of communication. The device is inherently of no value to us.” – A memo at Western Union, 1878 (or 1876).
“The Americans have need of the telephone, but we do not. We have plenty of messenger boys.” – Sir William Preece, Chief Engineer, British Post Office, 1878.
“It’s a great invention but who would want to use it anyway?” – Rutherford B. Hayes, U.S. President, after a demonstration of Alexander Bell’s telephone, 1877.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:24 AM
I’ve been in SL for a while now. And coming off of other sites I can give my input on why I could imagine the rank is so low.
In my previous work and times spent on another site, I’ve noticed extreme customer service. The owner directly getting involved and making statements. Taking peoples suggestions and working them into the format.
Now before people go thinking its nothing like SL. Well heres the scoop. It wasn’t during beta testing no. But within a year it now has a commerce and is working its way towards content creation quite rapidly. And the platform is so stable you don’t have to worry about crashing. It has a valid age verification and supports users from around the world. Hmm Sounds kinda familiar doesn’t it.
Not making jest here I’m just merely stating facts. Here is what I’ve personally found with SL. Live help which doesn’t exist now was extremely rude at times, and seemed to be robotically trained. Making some users feel like they were being talked to like idiots. Not everything was my graphics card. lol. The other thing is these posts about upcoming improvements. They either don’t happen or when implemented they cause an instability that reaks havoc for weeks sometimes months.
And quite possibly the most annoying encounter is that when your expecting to have no bugs with your inventory after an upgrade thats what you would like to see. I know I know they can’t account for all problems. But thats SL.
The other site I mentioned when there was an issue it was mentioned that it was known, then what happened? GASP .. it was fixed. Wow what a concept.
Now I may be coming across as sarcastic but these are some of the ways I was treated by live helpers who represented your business, website or whathave you. And the moral to all of this is simple.
You say things are broke and acknowledge it. But can’t seem to fix many of them. But when you do an update, the things that are noticed are the new colors, the new location of an im box, etc etc. And the other new things that are implemented that work, may be nice.. But they are soon deminished by the fact that SL is still borked and there are numerous issues which make it more and more to enjoy. Wether your a member just exploring through the lag and through the missing inventories, and attatchments. Or if your a builder just trying to get a texture properly stretched before you crash or it snaps out of alignment.
And had you been listening…. This is a HUGE POINT… You would already know why people are ranking you at the bottom.
You post a blog that all the world can see and expect members not to give their opinion about something that has gone terribly wrong again. And many people respond with negative responses.
This site has the potential if it gets its act together to be great. But until the right hand talks to the left hand and they both listen to the members then it will be in the bottom 5 unfortunately. Not just on one websites opinion but eventually the majority of rating platforms.
Good luck, and keep plucking away. This and all comments should be viewed as constructive critisism by you as professionals. And should be used as what you need to be doing from the mouths of your members who still trust in you. Regardless of what they may or may not have seen from the past.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:28 AM
the biggest truth in all that was the fact they say Linden Labs is for profit. The base commodity in Second Life is “Computer Usage Space.” I have reason to believe that instead of fixing inventory issues they will begin to charge us for large inventories that are large mostly becuase of the litter that is so hard to keep a check on. Plus the other “Computer Usage Space” is Land area and that is the driving force in the economy of Second Life. Land was once 13 L per square meter, today it is 8. Approaching half value of you investment of a few months ago. But Linden isn’t the Federal Reserve trying to preserve the economy, they are simply trying to fill their pockets with the money from your dreams. Soon they will open another continent diluting the land values even lower. And crippling the economy even more. Look at their ECONOMY page. You get a snap shot of today as if they are keeping you informed. Look for yourself and notice that after explosive growth from Sept - March, from March to July Second Life is falling down and poor WORLD choices are being persued to fill Linden Lab coffers. So while you revel in the artificial sunshine of letting others tell you what the state of the world is. Take a moment and look for yourself. Where is your money, dream, and future going to be in 12 months.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:28 AM
can someone please fix the female upper body muscles slider. the bug was reported more than a year ago, but no one seems to care.
a fix would take about 10 minutes
going to post that in every blog from now on
July 12th, 2007 at 6:29 AM
I enjoy MY second life because of reasons too great to number… but one main one might be to escape from the hell that can be reality from time to time. People here can be someone they can’t be in rl or heck..some are even basically themselves. the possibilities are limitless here, & sooo many rl friends who i have “turned on” to sl… i see more now in world than i did in rl lmao. why would anyone like it here? pfft
July 12th, 2007 at 6:29 AM
The article in Time simply underscores the complete separation from reality that most elite print journalists seemingly embrace with a desperately blind enthusiasm. The pedantic need to sneer at digital social networks is merely a mask for their complete inability to commit to truly investigating their subject matter.
The list is simply nothing more than a damning indictment of the old regime’s quaking terror at the rise of new media. The only good thing about such an article is that it lets the mask slip, and exposes the haughty, elitist arrogance that fills practically every single upper-echelon print journalist. It is a simple symptom of the fear that quakes in their bellies when they happen to think about how the internet is slowly whittling away at the very long, very shaky branch they’ve been clinging to for the past several decades.
It’s all too easy to get frustrated at SL and LL, especially when their work to improve their world gets in the way of the enjoyment of my own…but a deep breath, a shot of whiskey, and a walk around the block later, are all I need to return my perspective.
Keep up the good work…even if it ticks me off from time to time.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:29 AM
@46….This is a post about why we love Second Life. If you are so unhappy with it, then why are you still here? Perhaps your SL experience is so unpleasant because you have not learned a few basic things, like staying on topic??
Torley, the reasons we love SL are both numerous and vast. The bottom line is, even with all its faults and quirks and downsides, we can”t live without it, as evidenced by our presence here, reading stupid articles from a nOOb TIME author. The magazine needs to do a little more proof-reading in the future, as apparently they do not know the difference between a true web-site, and a game. This is a game which *has* a web-site. Duh!
July 12th, 2007 at 6:30 AM
In all honesty, the SecondLife website isn’t good. It’s not one of the worst 5 by a very long way, but it isn’t a good site for usability or for intuitive use. But don’t confuse SecondLife with a website - it isn’t one. SecondLife is a programmer that uses the ‘internet’ - not the Web. They are different.
To clarify that:- the internet is a network of computers that is used by different systems. The Web is one of those systems. SecondLife is another of those systems.
July 12th, 2007 at 6:30 AM
Sorry to post a second comment, but maybe I can do better than saying that SL “is an amplifier”.
SL is like a bicycle.
Remember your first bicycle? There was a hell of a learning curve, but once you mastered it, you could go further faster. Freedom!
July 12th, 2007 at 6:34 AM
Webiste, indeed! It never ceases to amaze me how otherwise knowledgeable people seem to have no clue how the Internet (notice the capital “I”) is put together. There are people who think the Internet is the world wide web, and others who think the world wide web is the internet. Those are not the same thing, by the way, but don’t ask me to explain. I’m only going to take up one slot in this 100-post thread (not-so-subtle hint to you blog hoggers), and I don’t want it to turn it into a lengthy language essay.
Even more interesting is how so many people refer to Second Life as a “game”. This is not a game. There are no teams of competitors organized under rules which are imposed by Linden Lab that define victory conditions. Second Life is an Immersive Virtual World, like Real Life in some ways and unlike it other very important ways. I’m here because of the way it’s *not* like Real Life. I get enough Reality from Reality, thank you!
As for the actual website, it’s very confusing and poorly organized. Until you have stumbled around it for awhile it’s nearly impossible to find things efficiently. Is it possible that Time was referring to this? I doubt it. Perhaps this blog, which isn’t a “website” in the strict sense, either, was Time’s target. Other than the perennial problem of the tiny centralized column which many people have complained about but nothing has ever been done, and the 100-post cap, this is actually quite functional. But that’s not likely their target, either. Time is simply clueless.
How do I shot the Second Life?
July 12th, 2007 at 6:35 AM
after reading the posts here i was reminded of in spite what i did post of why i stay:
my Sl Hubbeh(soon to be RL) and Family and Friends
the Apollo Gardens, set to midnight, while dancing with said hubbeh
the various builds, glens, artists, and content creators who take the time to make my SL so cool to be in
building my first usuable object
these stick out most in my mind and these are the main reasons i stay. yep probably when im in a home somewhere wating for my meds i will look up and see a avatar, reporting news, from SecondLife amoug other things
July 12th, 2007 at 6:36 AM
How would I respond to Time? Are you kidding? We were told we’d flunk 11th grade if we cited to Time in a research paper! Why the * should I listen to them whe