[Reminder] Scheduled Downtime, Wed. June 13th
Friday, June 8th, 2007 at 1:49 PM by: Iridium LindenAs a reminder, Second Life will be unavailable this Wednesday, June 13, 2007 from 6am until 12pm PDT. For 1.17.01 release notes, please see Joshua Linden’s previous blog post.
June 8th, 2007 at 1:50 PM
Just wondering whatwill be lindened this time…
________________________________________
/don’t want pretty skies
// want decent support
/// want stable platform
//// don’t care about who made a sculptie
June 8th, 2007 at 1:59 PM
Fix at first all other problems befor you deploy a new version.
Every patience will have a end… and this end is really near!
June 8th, 2007 at 2:00 PM
*listens for the screeching*
Thanks for fixing search. You only killed classifieds for 2 days. Any plans to compensate for the extended outage and subsequent loss of revenues?
June 8th, 2007 at 2:01 PM
OMG NOT AGAIN !!!!! PLEASE NOT AGAIN!!!
June 8th, 2007 at 2:04 PM
Will this fix my problem of not being able to load my avatar when I log in? It’s been happening since Sunday, I have two tickets opened about it and NO REPONSE other than to clear cache and relog!!!
I’ve heard others having the same problem in the Forums, where I see precaching followed by downloading clothing at which point I repeatedly get the message that clothing is still downloading but others can see me normally. However, no one can see me, my avatar and surrounding area is all in grey or at times not visible at all, my location goes to 10, 10, 10 of my home sim, I can’t access my inventory, friends list, can’t chat or IM, and sometimes my Linden dollar balance is there and sometimes not. I have relogged, cleared cache, reinstalled, tried other versions such as First Look and Beta and nothing has worked.
I highly believe this is an SL server issue since I have no problems with any other internet program except SL. I have searched Forums, IMed Lindens from my alt account, reported a bug, etc. I need to get in and manage my shop and just got a job as a model and now cant’ do anything.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:04 PM
i hope this isnt the rumored voice patch… comeone! skip the voice and fix the bugs instead! and where the frig is my money? i didnt get my 300 L$ stipendium. how do you plan to give that to us that didnt get it?
June 8th, 2007 at 2:15 PM
* Notecards no longer display the keep and discard buttons for the owner of the notecard.
So this means the owners get MASSIVE notecards from their own object loading the database even more causeing lag through out the game..o yes this is a feature we NEED rocking!! WOOT!! hey can we get one where partical count is default around 4k and cant be lowered? That would be SSOO cool!! I wana work for Linden Lame Labs!!!
June 8th, 2007 at 2:18 PM
SL is borked guys!!!!!!!!! fix the bugs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 8th, 2007 at 2:19 PM
O a side note the stipend issue is NOT fixed..you might want to make sure something is fixed before you state it is..yes I submited a ticket..
June 8th, 2007 at 2:19 PM
Will something be done about the very low frame rates and high lag your recent updates have introduced? Sl has become almost useless lately.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:21 PM
@Tristin, I’ll pass your comment to the Linden responsible for the stipend fix.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:24 PM
Heretic thank you very much..I know about a dozen people in game that havent gotten stipend either its not just me
June 8th, 2007 at 2:25 PM
What are you gonna break this time? o.O
@1 : An automatic refund feature based on downtime would be nice.
Not that we can expect the function to ever work reliably…
June 8th, 2007 at 2:28 PM
have not been able to log on for four days
reason given –we have made some changes reactivate your password
but no-one takes any notice of phone calls or in support .com
everyone seems to be passing the buck
0
June 8th, 2007 at 2:33 PM
Hopefully SL won’t be down for 2 days like it was for “scheduled maintenance”. On that note, “scheduled maintenance” should be changed to “scheduled server fuckups”, that’d be more accurate.
How about testing things out properly so the aren’t buggy next time, or is that too hard for you guys?
June 8th, 2007 at 2:45 PM
I think fixing bugs is more important than adding flashy but largely uneeded features. I also understand that some have the Lindens going around playing moral police and they can’t do everything at once. It’sa two headed problem.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:48 PM
OMG a update on the 13TH -faints- thank god its not friday. Please be deligent and not just release for the sake of releasing, make sure you don’t break anything, I wish you guys and us LUCK. -faints again-
June 8th, 2007 at 2:52 PM
Updating on the 13th … Ohhhh nooooo .. were doomed !!!!
June 8th, 2007 at 2:52 PM
I was under the impression that updates/client releases were going to be every other week and things seem to have slipped into weekly-mode. It would be pure speculation to assume the next update/client release will have problems, but like a lot of residents I wish there was less frequency.
June 8th, 2007 at 2:57 PM
Crosses fingers and hopes we can limp through the weekend without a repeat of the problems of the last two days happening when everyone’s gone home..if not..the weekend will be the usual bumpy ride. *looks hard for a silver lining in the new Windlight clouds * chuckles.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:03 PM
testing…
June 8th, 2007 at 3:10 PM
You never give up, hm?
“Second Life will be unavailable this Wednesday, June 13, 2007 from 6am until 12pm PDT.”
Good news! If it means it is available the other times…
but I guess it will be less available the days after!
I wonder how much worse it can get…
I really believe that SL is dying now. I just try to have some last fun with it, but it gets harder and harder.
One day, so many things go wrong that it is just boring and then I will no longer log in and I’m gone.
Oops, maybe I am dying?
June 8th, 2007 at 3:10 PM
Thank you Heretic!
I look forward to it. and thank you and the rest of your team for all the hard work. I’m in the silent majority who appreciates that you guys want the bugs quashed as much as all the users do
Okay, fastening seatbelt and neck brace for all the whiners that will inevitable follow this post…. LOL
June 8th, 2007 at 3:16 PM
Will Mac users ever get some sort of word on the Mac client? Is it going to be fixed? (JIRAd in). Have any of you Lindens run the Mac client? If bugs with most votes get fixed, how do the minority of Mac users get their clients fixed? Did you leave debugging on in the Mac version so that a high percentage of key strokes and mouse clicks are ignored? Are you aware as reported that if a Mac user clicks anistropic one way or the other the screen goes black and the UI becomes corrupt forcing a restart - every single time? Is there going to be any acknowledgement of these issues and some sort of comment from a Linden as to what we can expect? Thank you for your answers in advance.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:34 PM
Yes, SL is unplayable till last Maintenance!
Yesterday i couldnt save any scripts ASSET error. Teleports somtimes Crashed and loggoff was forced. Today nearly every teleport doesnt work . Loading… nothing happends client loggs off. And today i cant even login for an half hour. I respect the Lindens for SL … its a great thing … but u guys REALLY have to OPTIMIZE THE CURRENT FEATURES!!! BEFOR ADDING NEW FEATURES…. ALSO UPGRADE PIPELINES TO LOAD WORLD FASTER WITH LESS BANDWITH.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:35 PM
Residents: Fix it fix it fix it fix it fix it!
Linden Lab: There will be downtime. The changes are primarily bug fixes, including some much anticipated memory usage fixes.
Residents: OMG u idiots, don’t change anything!
Ann: *some vicious bile*
Usagi: *fills 15% of blog with ranting*
You people crack me up in a very sad way.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:38 PM
If you did not receive your stipend on Thursday, 6/7/2007, then you already received it on Tuesday, 6/5/2007. I have checked the transaction histories of those who commented here and our logs show that you already received your stipend payments on Tuesday.
If you would like to check your transaction history, you can go to http://www.secondlife.com/account/transactions.php (this can be accessed from your account’s main page at the “Account History” link or in-world via the menu World -> Account History). By including 2007/06/05 and 2007/06/07 in your date range, you can see whether you received a stipend on Tuesday or Thursday.
The transaction’s description will look something like this:
Date: 2007-06-05 02:28:28
Type: Stipend Base
Source: SYSTEM
Thank you for your patience as we resolved this issue. If you still believe you did not properly receive a stipend for this week, feel free to IM Sabin Linden in-world.
But please, not all at once. I’m busy!
Thanks all.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:40 PM
I am having the same problem as genna gray. Hopefully this will fix it.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:40 PM
It has only just come back up from last Wednesday’s *update* and now you want to do the same again? As others have noted the Weekends are useless, as the grid can’t support the load, so that leaves only 2 days a week, Monday and Tuesday, that we have a reasonable chance of building something or testing scripts.
6 months ago I built a club in 2 days, now I am trying to relocate it (as my sim was unusable and in need of a reboot, for the whole off last weekend, with no support to call on till Monday). It has taken a week to rebuild so far do due to lag, system crashes, missing inventory, lack of search and of course if I find what I need I can’t buy it.
In fact having just reread this message why am I even bothering to expand? No one can get there with TP and search being unreliable, maybe I should just save my cash and use what others build, rather than trying to contribute to the community.
It was good whilst it lasted but like others have noted, this is the beginning of the end, unless some radical changes take place soon.
June 8th, 2007 at 3:51 PM
How much stuff you guys gonna mess up this time??? How about making group IM’s stop giving us the error message. What’s the news on those clouds that don’t work anymore? Any status on those clouds you guys promoted so much…
June 8th, 2007 at 3:54 PM
I just get logged off when I try to teleport…
It’s like being in jail…
June 8th, 2007 at 3:57 PM
Since I am guessing nobody who continuously complains here has ever developed software, here is a tidbit of truth.
It takes longer to fix bugs than to develop new features.
As it is, June 12th is my 30th birthday. So I’ll enjoy the downtime on the 13 recovering from a serious hangover.
June 8th, 2007 at 4:08 PM
I had to reboot my pc because of this quality program.
June 8th, 2007 at 4:09 PM
Cool, another downgrade wednesday on the way!
Though it’s worth noting that the Linden responses have been about the stipend (Brave lad Sabin, thank you for jumping up and being one of the few Lindens to admit to being around) … But strangely silent about the classifieds. people got dinged for classified renewals last night - so even with search down, LL still managed to extract their pound of flesh.
How about it Lindens? One of you want to follow Sabin’s example and actually say something concrete on the subject?
June 8th, 2007 at 4:11 PM
*chuckle* People seem to forget how long it took the Mighty Microsoft to get Windows into some semblance of usability (Windows 1.0 ? From there to 3.11e all the way to, well W95.. oh, yeah not done yet… Vista, anyone ?).
For a program with a world of complexity in areas few folks realize or appreciate (folks who can actually work in 3D programming games like WoW and also have experience with web based applications can relate), Second Life is *still* better for what we use it for than all the others.
June 8th, 2007 at 4:12 PM
* Notecards no longer display the keep and discard buttons for the owner of the notecard.
For the love of god don’t do that. There is no JIRA issue for this, no documentation on who asked for it to be changed, why, and if they asked anyone else about the idea. Whoever implemented this change clearly does not deal regularly with notecards or they’d know how monumentally stupid this is. There are many posts about this in a number of threads here, and I’ve yet to see one that supports this change or justifies why on earth we might want to do that.
Changes to the viewer with no associated JIRA issue need to be very well justified. You can’t ask your community to help sort, comment on, and prioritize bugs, and then ignore them and just throw in nifty interface changes on a whim.
June 8th, 2007 at 4:27 PM
Yes, please, please, please DO NOT take away the Keep Discard buttons from notecards. Every single ad panel, rental box, greeter etc will give you stuff you can’t delete on the spot, and all it will do is bloat inv, and increase load on the asset server and other systems. What are you thinking?
@22 Ryu Darragh - Not forgetting MS licensed parts of Windows 1.0 from Apple, and it took them 11 years to copy the Mac OS into a usable form ie W95 - something it took the Apple coders less than four years to do from scratch…
So you’re determined to give us this, please just make sure it won’t bork everything as disastrously as you have since 1.16…
June 8th, 2007 at 4:30 PM
OK, folks, you can’t have it both ways. You want them to fix the bugs - well, so do I. You want them to stop shutting the grid down - Well, honestly, so do I.
HOWEVER - do you really think they can do both at the same time? Sure, eventually - but not yet. Deploying new server code requires downtime. If it’s an update to the Simulator, it can be done as a rolling restart, but if it’s the Asset or Login Servers, or if it changes the communications protocols, then the whole thing has to be shut down.
So - in essence - You can have Bugfixes, or you can have no updates - but you can’t have both. Now shut up and play the game, or leave. Damned moaners fill this blog with useless “OMG NOT AGAIN !!!!! PLEASE NOT AGAIN!!!” comments make me sick. Go back to commenting on YouTube and EBaum’s World, you festering pea-brains.
June 8th, 2007 at 4:31 PM
22, yes you are right. Up to a point. It is still better than the others, when its working. When it’s broken it’s not.
Each person, or group of people in world will have a different set of priorities. I do clothes, I need to be able to upload a lot of textures, that one of mine. I have not been able to do that reliably for a couple of weeks without an error message. Likewise people who socialize a lot want reliable tps (as do businesses). object creators need reliability of script. But there’s a common theme to all these. Reliability.
The periods of reliability have been in decline, it could be argued that as the software pushes forward, then more problems will occur. But (subjectively) it has seemed to me that we have had a spate of 2-3-4 day issues recently, the Friday “update” that left issues all weekend, the mini update on weds that has taken to today to fix (although I still have the texture upload issue).
This is the core of the problem. I welcome the upcoming update as it is concentrating on bug fixes. But I am not convinced that LL are entirely on the ball with regard to database stability and communication issues. During the times when things seem to be running better I would hope that they leave alone for a while and really take the time to thoroughly, plan, test and retest and subsequent updates.
I do want new features. But I can get by without them. Stability and reliability are what I feel should be the primary focus of LL in the foreseeable future. Not alas, voice and or pretty skies and sculpties.
June 8th, 2007 at 4:35 PM
Buckaroo, that’s not the point.
The experience showed that after a downtime we are confronted with even more problems.
That’s why we want
better tested updgrades only once a month!
Not once a week (or more often) more problems.
June 8th, 2007 at 4:37 PM
(I am posting so many comments here because I crash all the time!)
June 8th, 2007 at 4:41 PM
Ahh thanks i hope the new update will work well!
* Notecards no longer display the keep and discard buttons for the owner of the notecard.
help! please do not add this feature.. as a shop owner i get many unwanted notecards.. please add a feature to DISABLE notecards from unknown people instead..!
Theres so many people who do not read profiles before they will send notecards!
June 8th, 2007 at 4:44 PM
Is anyone at Linden working right now?
you see….NOTHING WORKS AGAIN!
June 8th, 2007 at 4:48 PM
I’d like to add my voice to the many others who would vastly VASTLY prefer to see LL fix the bugs and get the system stabilized rather than embarking on the potentially disastrous experiment of the voice patch. If LL can’t even keep Search working properly, let alone the Friends Online function, it hardly bodes well for an undertaking as enormously complex as voice transmissions between tens of thousands of residents online simultaneously. LL needs to get things in perspective, and come back down to virtual earth. (How many residents really want this voice thing anyway? Seems to me to be a recipe for unbelievable audio mayhem - especially in high traffic sims. I doubt I’ll ever want to use it, except in rare situations. Personally, I love the texting. It’s an art form all unto itself! If residents want to talk to each other directly, there’s skype and other voip services available.)
June 8th, 2007 at 4:55 PM
I’d like to add my voice to say that I want to continue to see new features added, in addition to bugs and bugettes being fixed. Bring on the voice!
June 8th, 2007 at 4:56 PM
Just want to have sure that affter months brasillian people will finnally can buy lindens, we are all going crazy, nobody from brasil can buy linden, and its not a new issue!
June 8th, 2007 at 5:01 PM
I’ve got nothing against adding new features like voice per se. It’s a question of priorities. If the basics aren’t working, the first priority should be ensuring these necessary features are fully operational and reliable.
June 8th, 2007 at 5:03 PM
Could someone try to see why TP isnt working!?
God this get worse and worse for every day
June 8th, 2007 at 5:11 PM
I feel sick now, like I’ve just been punched in the gut… I have hundreds of products out there broken because of DataServer issues, and know of at least 3 other people with thousands of similarly broken products from the same data server issue, and I have yet to see even any recognition from LL that they have even the slightest clue….
Okay, yay, maybe it will be fixed Wednesday. Maybe. Never mind the entire week of broken crap all over the grid, they may or may not get to it Wednesday. And since it’s not even a recognized issue, who knows if it’s even on the docket for *then*?
This is completely lame, LL. I love Second Life, but surely you realize that your update process is broken?
June 8th, 2007 at 5:17 PM
well, TP still does not work properly, could you fix this please, it’s lasting two days or so already
June 8th, 2007 at 5:19 PM
…again. Try to TP, got logged off..
It’s not even more annoying, it is just boring.. I get tired of second life
I go to bed now. Who knows? Maybe tomorrow it won’t let me in again.. would be ok too..
June 8th, 2007 at 5:32 PM
/me sighs because no one seems to have read the previous blog posts about 1.17.0, and that it is *not* the voice client, or the new sky rendering client, but that it is full of bug fixes that everyone is demanding with posts like, “ZOMG!!!111!!! Fix all bugs now or I quit and take my money with me!”
It seems that if you’re a Linden, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
June 8th, 2007 at 5:35 PM
Now I won’t be able to discard notecards from my own items when they are thrown at me without going into the notecard folder and deleting them from the notecard folder and then purging them from trash. WOW is all I can say, this is AWSOME! If only you knew how often I have sat around and wished for this “improvement”. I mean this is SO on the top of my list of things that would make my SL a better place to be. I will finally have something to to do when I can’t TP, can’t buy anything, can’t chat with friends that won’t show up on my list, can’t rezz items from inventory and can’t search for places to go. Previously I used that extra time to pull my shoes and hair out of my butt, now I can use it to delete the umpteen thousand notecards I will have cluttering up my inventory. This is so much better. I just can’t wait till I can sit around under a pretty sky and listening to 150 people blabber around me all at once while i delete notecards.
June 8th, 2007 at 5:43 PM
the first priority IS fixing the bugs, the updates and new features have seperate teams working on them so they can have a dedicated crew working on the bug fixes. new features are going to happen even if the small fry (the free and premium accout users) don’t want them. new features have to happen to draw more ppl so advertisers will decide this is a good place to have their money go (this is how the company makes money) to promote their companies. that being said it simply means that to survive they have to work on updates, new features and bug fixes all at the same time with neither one getting more attention than any other. by the way if you crash all the time it is your machine, NOT the game! remember this is opengl being used so not all graphics cards are fully compatible. i also wish they would make the cache empty itself instead of wasting time explaining it to losers and having them think it will work without a restart and fill support pages with their dribble. i have no doubt that the bugs will be fixed and new ones will appear but look at cars, are they all perfect? has anyone gotten it right all the time? no, they haven’t. why? because it’s too darned technical to forsee all of the possible problems.
June 8th, 2007 at 5:47 PM
Hey Simon, I think what people are doing is reinforcing that LL is doing the right thing by fixing the bugs first. Chill out dude.
June 8th, 2007 at 6:09 PM
Are you sure 1.17.01 is ready? I sent in about 5 crash reports in toggling to full screen crashes. Along with a report bug about this.
June 8th, 2007 at 6:15 PM
Im looking forward to the release, but it seems a lot of people arent familiar with programming or release cycles, and its apparent from a lot of the comments here and earlier blogs this week.
The new version on the beta grid announced earlier is testing for bug fixes that will br released on Wednesday - its not beta fixes, its main grid fixes being checked out before final release. Lindens arent wasting their time fixing beta issues while the main grid burns, (as some seem to think), they are trying to find and eliminate any last minute problems that might occur when the main grid fixes are released next week… In other words they are listening - they are doing more testing (as many have asked) and they are trying not to introduce new problems that will impact thursday and Friday.
This release *IS* a bug fix release - look over the earlier release notes and the updated release notes that followed. Lots and lots of bug fixes, including plugs for many memory leaks, and very little in the way of new features. Voice will not be included - this has been stated earlier, yet so many people are still whining about voice being released.
This release will fix a lot of bugs - it is what we asked for, and now we are getting it, but it seems the Lindens cant win - we demand bug fixes, and then some blast them for providing them.
@ Lindens - Keep up the good work, keep piling on the fixes, and ignore the people who don’t “get it”, but please have someone re-examine the notcard issue - we really do need to be able to discard notecards we already own, if they are coming from an object (ie: not already in inventory)… Personally Im hoping you’ve realised this already and have coded it that way.
June 8th, 2007 at 6:16 PM
…do I have to apologise for not having had any problems for three days? (Apart from Search, but EVERYONE had that) When I read all the complaints I almost feel ashamed that SL works fine for me at the moment.
June 8th, 2007 at 6:29 PM
I haven’t been able to login, with the login process died at waiting for regional handshake. Must have been at least 6 times already. May I know what is causing this? And I’m also quite upset that I’ve only subscribed for a week and there are already several occasions of ’system maintenance’, and more coming next week! If your system is overloaded, perhaps you shouldn’t take in anymore subscribers?
June 8th, 2007 at 6:57 PM
People that have been using the FIRST LOOK Client knows the ins and out of this new release. Its not perfect not nearly, with crashing resulting in retoggling screen size as for one example. Sky looks wonderful with little problems in reflective lighting. But because LLABS side has been so so unstable with Balances, Weekly Pay, Search not working at times. Its not fully known how stable this First Look Client is. Also Avies are not logging out properly with existing the client. Yes there are still issues and LLAbs wil be releasing this client. So hold on for the ride
Usagi
June 8th, 2007 at 7:01 PM
Usagi: Wrong preview. It’s the Beta grid client (without voice), not first look.
June 8th, 2007 at 7:03 PM
Great Job! Thank you for keeping us at the cutting edge. Not all your members are unhappy and want to just WHINE!!!!! But I guess if the other biggest challenge they have in there life is to remember to ask “do you want fries with that” a problem on SL could rock there world LOL
June 8th, 2007 at 7:11 PM
Are you telling me that you are going to destroy the game again , 2 weeks in a row.
If this update goes as your past performance indicates you might as well pull the plug on this entire operation. I can not speak for others but I am growing weary of you half hearted attempts to improve the game. All you exceed in doing is irritating the subscriber base that pays. I would say that if the next attempt is a failure many of your premium accounts will find other diversions. I for one have been looking for several weeks. It is just to bad that you created an environment with so much potential then lack the ability to keep it functional. Again I will make the futile suggestion that you put the update in a box and keep it there while you correct past mistakes in the main program. But then thats no fun is it and you have to keep the individuals who create these problems happy
June 8th, 2007 at 7:25 PM
@23, 24, 29
Removing the keep/discard from an OWNERS notecard, this is a return to previous functionality, not a change. Make a new notecard in your inventory and you will know what I mean, there should be a SAVE button there, not KEEP and DISCARD. Cards you recieve from others will still have keep/discard. For me its a huge pain in the ass.
June 8th, 2007 at 7:41 PM
oddly enough after fixing my own client aside from the odd times when i couldnt teleport i had absolutely NO problems with search or anything else for most of the day which i guess is sorta proof that the microsoft bloatcode is producing more problems than its worth
June 8th, 2007 at 7:46 PM
This is an OMEN you fools.
REPENT
THE END IS NEAR.
June 8th, 2007 at 7:52 PM
This is my first time posting here…we will see if this works before the inevitable LL screening process of closing down feedback so as not to have to listen to the gnashing of teeth when Torly makes a new thingie instead of LL fixing the actual issues…but we’ll see.
I am still relatively new, a little over 2 months old now but getting the hang of it, even a landowner
I’ve read the blog religiously and stayed out of it because it hadn’t landed in my yard so far - SL has worked mostly fine for me save but the 45 crashes per hour. (45CPH, new one anybody?). It’s annoying but I was being patient. I understand that running SL is a pain on the technical end.
Yeah well.
I began to have a little concern because I could easily see that when LL announced some new feature, massive gnashing of teeth would happen and then a sudden blog lockdown. I can see the long strwam of demands, requests, pleas to LL BY the people paying them money to fix the problems BEFORE worrying about stupid crap like glorious sunsets…to a noob, the regular sunsets are still pretty damn kickin. I noticed that the protests and complaints and requests and upset over no tech support would be ignored almost defacto by LL, but if Torley made some new hot pink thingie and people said “yay Torley that’s kewel” there’d be a whole sting of LL’s yellow boxes. That began to bother me.
Why?
Because I pay you money LL. I became a premium member. I buy Lindens and make purchases. In fact, SL has sucked me in so much as a noob, I have literally spent about 400 REAL DOLLARS (inflated debt from world bank BS notwithstanding) in SL. You’re getting my money. You’re taking other people’s money. I’ve watched the vids of Philip gloating about the X millions transacted in world per month.
Here’s the deal. I’m not like a lot of people who protest but do little else. I am PAYING MONEY for a service and product and if that product/service becomes unstable, unreliable and the makes refuse to allow adequate support without having to return to college to figure out JIRA, don’t answer the phone, remove all forms of vehicles to send in issues and reports, and ignore the please and concerns of the people out there PAYING YOU FOR THIS SERVICE, I am not scared to cancel this account, sell my stuff and bail and stop giving you my money.
It s a two way street. I’m being patient. I recognize the obstacles. But I am majorly concerned when LL ignores reports (if not disallows them completely) from PEOPLE PAYING YOU REAL MONEY FOR THIS SERVICE, of invetory loss, L balance failures, complete laggy system, failure to rez, transaction meltdowns….and goes into communication blackout, but then leaves the blog comments open so we can all gush about windlight and voice chat or a new sculptie thing. That’s nice but in light of the reality of the situation, LL, I have to tell you that nobody - nobody being people who PAY REAL MONEY for this product/service gives a rats ass about sculpting some fruit when they cannot use search, classifieds down, teleports down, stipends not showing up, linden balances disappearing, slow system, sim stagnation, failure to rez, and on and on and on.
And for the record, the common person using your service doesn’t know how to even use sculpty anyway and the editor could stand to be a little more user friendly - basically it sucks. But I deal with it.
I would much rather have an inventory viewer without having to rez stuff, to be able to see what’s in there via a thumbnail than I care about carving an apple. I would much prefer an ability to layer prims or some measure of building that doesn’t require 50 prims for a basic shap object than I care about having and Indian Pirate Summer Sunset.
That being said…here’s my horror story. Might be a smal thing to you but I have now experienced that sense of WTF stomach acid trip and it motivated me to add my 2c to the mix here.
Two days ago, after spending much money in SL, I went back home and tezzed ne of my two new tables on the ground to see what they looked like there. I “took” them back to inventory. Right in the middle of this process, SL ONCE AGAIN crashed. I relogged. I come back to the spot and file thru the inventory looking for the table. Nowhere to be found. I came here and saw the notice about it being there, just “misfiled”…so I went thru every single folder, including trash, including “restore” and one of the two tables is GONE. I cleared cache, rebooted…no table.
And in a bizarre moment of SL twilight zonish clunkiness, the very spot I rezzed the table that is not on the ground after ‘take’ it back, there’s an invisible barrier….can’t walk around it. Like a physical ghost in the spot, can’t see it, can’t move it, can’t pass thru the spot. I tried show hidden and wireframe and there’s no indication of a table. No table in inventory….but that spot has something there.
So where exactly do I go to report this, just to ask what the deal is? I pay you people my money, along with others, so I am seriously requesting you open the forums or provide a more common form of reporting these things that a new person is gonna have - a noob doesn’t know the full technical side of scripting or client server options to figure out this sort of thing - all they see is yesterday it was here, today is gone…wtf? and then being hit with total silence and ignoring from LL.
To make it worse, I had a balance two days ago. Then one day ago, suddenly it’s negative the same amount. WTF? Nothing shows in transaction history. So WTF did it change to a negative balance overnight when wasnt even on SL?
Or this…my groups aren’t “activating” again. I click them in the list but the activate button doesn’t light up. My OWN group won’t activate. When I check it, it shows me 0 members founded by nobody. And NO I haven’t set options to allow someone to swipe my group. It’s another case of “yesterday it worked, today WTF IS THIS?”
And like others, I too have a pretty hot little av. I’ll lay dress up and then head out to explore (when search and tp works). And without fail I’ll get there at least a good couple minutes before my hair does and walk around all grey and bald. How do I know? Others tell me. But *I* see it look normally rezzed. Others see dead alien bald toon.
My question is, do you care?
In the grand scheme of things LL wont even notice my missing couple hundred a month transactions in world. I can kill my account and you won’t even notice.
But I ask ya, when you’ve pissed off your several thousand active PAYING MEMBERS from total disregard and they pull out of SL before some such “upgrade” wipes them completely out and they’re not gonna risk it, sure SL will run smoother and faster….
But that bottom line will begin to nosedive and it will hit the downward spiral and SL will swiftly go down in flames as an ingenius concept run by people who cared more about hot pink and neon green fruit than providing quality service and support to PEOPLE WHO PAY YOU REAL MONEY AND DON’T HAVE TO.
And what’s funny here is the text below this box reads: need help? please visit our support page. Basically just another barrier between PEOPLE WHO PAY YOU REAL MONEY and LL who doesn’t seem to want to deal with interacting with the PAYING customers.
That being said, for any of you who are interested and willing, I have a forum that’s been up for a few years and lately have decided to dedicate it to SL issues….I’m currently revamping it but you are all welcome to join and help… it will still be an in world forum for alll SL members to use, but since LL doesn’t seem to want to bother helping people WHO PAY THEM REAL MONEY, maybe we can get together and help ourselves, after all, it is created by the user.
There ARE ways to get LL’s attention. I am adding the forum to the mix as a support forum as well.
http://users.boardnation.com/~destini9/index.php
June 8th, 2007 at 8:02 PM
PS And yeah I filed a trouble ticket.
Here’s what I got when I tried it the LL way when I had a curious issue with changing clothes and the top worn weeks earlier somehow remained a default when the “remove all clothing” tab is checked. Instead of nude, it reverted to a previously worn item. I got the standard “please visit support” and a list of stuff. And WEEKS later, I get this crap here:
Dear Second Life Resident:
Your bug report regarding Bug: E:3007 P:1 O:W V1.16.0.62469
(Cubes)[Inventory] “Avatar Clothing Changes Not Taking Effect” has been received,
and assigned an ID of [rt.lindenlab.com #873558].
Thanks! Sending a bug report is a great way to help us improve Second
Life. In general, don’t expect a response to this bug report. We
aren’t able to respond with the status of each report, and many reports
duplicate others. If this is a new bug, and we need further help
understanding or reproducing it, a development team member may contact you.
Also, we encourage you to use the “Public Issue Tracker†option
(instead of
“Report Bugâ€), because we’re moving towards greater visibility of
known
issues and being more communicative about our work — aggregating that
info
in the Issue Tracker and openly showing how important it is to our
Residents helps us be more responsive.
Also, your fellow Residents will feel better if you report a bug first
so
they can comment and vote on it. This, among other supporting factors,
helps us assess priority. See http://jira.secondlife.com for more
details.
Thanks in advance for helping us help make your Second Life better!
If you are looking for Second Life Support, you can find it here:
http://secondlife.com/community/support.php
Best,
bugs@secondlife.com
All fine and good but the problem wasn’t solved by LL. I got the form mail basically.
June 8th, 2007 at 8:02 PM
Thank you Linden Labs for trying hard to make this an enjoyable experience for all of us. Thank you for giving me an opportunity to share my great experiences with friends old and new in this world. And thank you for providing an outlet to my creativity. Not everyone thinks the sky is falling because search or teleport goes down for a few days. My sim is much more stable than it used to be when I bought it, and its mainland.
FIX T3H BUGS1111111111111 OMG WAAH!!!!!
I mean, thanks again.
June 8th, 2007 at 8:14 PM
Do you realise with dropping the “Keep/Discard” on notecards, you’re practically giftwrapping a method for griefers to bring down the entire grid?
Can you imagine, an object scripted to identify all avatars within 96m and bombard them with notecard after notecard after notecard that they can’t refuse? What kind of a load do you think that’s going to put on the asset server?
I can see griefers creating free accounts, scripting these objects and then bombing busy sims and predict that very few people will realise that now they have to set themselves to BUSY mode to stop their inventories being blown out of all proportion.
Add that to SL’s innate ability to delete legitimate items when the asset server hiccups and you are coding into this release a complete and utter recipe for disaster!
Can I bombard everyone with the surname “Linden” with notecards saying “I told you so?” No? Well, if YOU don’t want that kind of griefing, WE DON’T EITHER! Keep/Discard on notecard works fine. Please don’t change it!
June 8th, 2007 at 8:27 PM
Notecards no longer display the keep and discard buttons for the owner of the notecard.
That unasked for “improvement” came from the same department as the unasked for “moral police improvement”. Oh yeah, I forget…the Majority of people asked for those…the same majority that gathers in the same prayer group around the flag out front of the LL building each noon.
The same group that is more concerned with what account verified adults do as a fantasy than whether Usagi Musashi is an actula child for closing out the earlier thread on purpose…a clear act of busting the rules let gone by the way as usual.
Getting back on topic with this post: I do truely hope that this coming shutdown really fixes things…that somehow they have been able to actually not grab some old code and thread it back into the mix, like they usually do.
I am perplexed that while Heeitic Linden’s first sentence talks about downtime, her next sentence jumps to a statement relating to 1.17.01 release notes. No where in between does she say that the new downtime will require a new viewer or not…it’s just broadly inferred by her second sentence. This is really horrible communicationon her part of what might be coming. Is that indeed what you mean Heretic? Is there some reason you don’t want to come out and actuyally say it?
While I’m asking retorical questions, is there some reason there’s no comments about people having to struggle though hell to do a required password change? Is there any truth to the rumor that LL’s password computer was security breached and that many of the paid stipends stolen?
June 8th, 2007 at 8:34 PM
Cuting edge term is so over used. Lets just things moving in the right dircetion. No matter if its fixxing old bug just scaling thing alittle more. This past week was a nightmare, and things are gettng stable once again. But This First Look Client really going to take some time bloom, its not really perfect as I said before. But atleast fuctions are working again.
Usagi
June 8th, 2007 at 9:14 PM
Now everyone remember that you had a 5 day advance notice of the intended update! No whining on Wednesday!
And No whining when the update is applied and weird things start happening. The real work for LL starts AFTER the update is applied!!!
Understand your world, change is GOOD!
June 8th, 2007 at 9:37 PM
Yay.
June 8th, 2007 at 9:53 PM
“O a side note the stipend issue is NOT fixed..you might want to make sure something is fixed before you state it is..yes I submited a ticket..”
Yeah, let’s fix this first before rolling out more bugs.
June 8th, 2007 at 10:31 PM
Where is the promised Vista patch? This, and bug fixes, should be Linden Lab’s priorities, not fancy skies or “cool” but basically unnecessary features like Voice. With a current install base of 40 miilion, there are more Vista than MacOS users, and I wouldn’t recommend SL to a single one unless he or she were ready for an on-line experience of frequent and unexpected crashes. Vista is not going away, guys. Grow up and deal with it.
June 9th, 2007 at 12:12 AM
Good luck with ll the fixes, I hope this time we can have a nice SL thursday. without all kind of problems.
And please no voice, it will devide SL
June 9th, 2007 at 12:19 AM
Usagi, once again you prove that you don’t actually READ the posts. They said this does NOT include the new sky system. FirstLook is going to go through a LOT more revisions before Windlight gets hooked into the official release.
Untamable, do YOU actually read the posts? Keep and Discard will be removed for the OWNER of a notecard, NOT for a recipient! This will not be a new griefer tool - this will keep a person who is CREATING a notecard from having to hit “Keep” twice, instead of “Save” once.
Coventina - leave the game. Please. If it’s so unusable for you, get out now - cut your losses and leave. You obviously don’t want to stick it out through the tough times and wait until this platform becomes what it has the capability to.
Alyx - I’m with you. I have problems when the grid does, and I have problems when a real bug pops up - and I report it in JIRA, and I work around it, and I get on with my SL. Then again, I’m a computer professional, and know how to keep the crud off my computer that causes most (if not all) of the problems these people keep yacking about.
Lindens - If you don’t read down to this, I will understand. However, I would like to express my support. Being a programmer, I know just how amazing it is that this works AT ALL, much less as well as it does, given the technical level of most of it’s user base. Two thumbs up.
June 9th, 2007 at 12:24 AM
Might I be the first to say that Usagi Musashi should be blocked from posting more than a few comments, before she intentionally fills up the entire blog, as she has proven to do for the past couple of blog posts; it gives others a chance to comment too.
June 9th, 2007 at 12:30 AM
day 2 of nothing working…ahmmmm ok so you didnt have the guts to post my first response…..now here is the second you wont post….Phillip its about time you tell your devs what to o cuz….QC aint existent in your company….and honestly…I dont know why anyone is actually paying for this…it has gotten unplayable…..
LL either get you act together or a new CEO…he may talk nice and look good but hell he does a rotten job
June 9th, 2007 at 12:37 AM
June 9th, 2007 at 12:40 AM
“Lindens - If you don’t read down to this, I will understand. However, I would like to express my support. Being a programmer, I know just how amazing it is that this works AT ALL, much less as well as it does, given the technical level of most of it’s user base. Two thumbs up.”
You hit the nail on the head. The LL developers could be super-gods at programming, but suck at deployment as all developers do. Where is the delivery manager? where is the deployment manager? where is the QA manager…these position aren’t developer position.
This is what lacking here. a CLEAR change management process.
Take a page from Microsoft, pick a day and roll out on that day only, expect for your major security updates. Get a REAL QA team or a REAL QA process. Hire a few SixSimga Blackbelts, see where the fault is.
Let’s get real here, it’s a business and not Dick and Jane’s hobby.
This is not a game, it the next generation platform for the Internet..
June 9th, 2007 at 12:40 AM
@35 Simon Nolan - Well. they’ve made it clearer subsequently. Their recent explanations and descriptions have been somewhat confusing, and they keep changing the posts, so you can’t blame people. 1.17 was originally going to be Voice. The very fact that it has been put off (yet again) shows that it is VERY FAR from ready for prime time, as they always thrust alphas on us at the earliest opportunity.
And amidst all the hoopla of Open Source, is it a conicidence that the horrendous grid performance since 1.16 followed the most ever Open Source patches? Because we’re told, it was mostly urgent bug fixes that couldn’t wait, and that the included sculptie code couldn’t possible cause any problem with performance issues with the grid…
Something in that 1.16 update has caused hideous performance issues, difficult to see it’s anything else other than one of those two, let alone the db work that effective took the system down for two solid days. For those who couldn’t get in, you didn’t miss much: couldn’t do much while in - money missing, tps borked, search borked, changing groups borked, friends borked…
Simon, the reason people are wary is the record: every update since 1.13.2 has been disastrous, worsened performance, and introduced so many bugs and problems that the blog has been full of Linden problem posts within a couple of hours. Go check, since you love that. Before 1.14 they were nowhere near as frequent, and we know it sometimes takes Linden hours or days even after problems have shown up to post it on the blog, as with their total silence on the password problem.
Linden policy was recently stated to return to having viewer updates every fortnight. They are introducing so many borks that they have to release bug fixes every week, which bring additional problems, and destabilises the whole thing for several days while they weak. And note, it says predominantly bug fixes, meaning there are changes in there, liable to cause yet more problems, which happens with every single update and “maintainence” session - fact of life, it happens with EVERY fiddle they do.
June 9th, 2007 at 12:41 AM
There isn’t much that makes me angrier than one resident telling another to leave.
Do you think the Lindens WANT people to go away? And you’re just being a good little helper with that?
coco
June 9th, 2007 at 12:55 AM
“51 Buckaroo Mu Says:
June 9th, 2007 at 12:19 AM PDT
Usagi, once again you prove that you don’t actually READ the posts. They said this does NOT include the new sky system. FirstLook is going to go through a LOT more revisions before Windlight gets hooked into the official release. ”
TROLL ALERT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
June 9th, 2007 at 12:57 AM
Nice, Usagi, letting people know that you’re trolling. Are you going to fill this blog post up with childish placeholders until it closes like you did the last?
June 9th, 2007 at 12:58 AM
@51 Buckaroo, so when you receive a notcard, who is the OWNER of that? Er… you. It says nothing about a recipient, or a creator, but the owner, which you become as soon as an object is given to you. It might be their bad explanations of stuff, in which case they should clarify, but I don’t see what else it could be.
As for the JIRA (another piece of Beta software, just like the main viewer), perhaps you missed the recent post about fixing the password problems that stopped many people from logging in to JIRA to report such problems? And I’m not talking the recent password problems that have prevented people logging in…
If you’re a computer professional, then you’ll know their Q&A is crap. SL is the only piece of software with a huge memory leak, that writes two gigs of garbage files a day, that hard crashes my Mac that I have, and I earn a living using my computer. It’s non-standard, sometimes does sometimes doesn’t use system APIs. In fact the only piece of software where the programmers have deemed themelves in need of reinventing the wheel every time rather than properly using the supplied OS tools…
It’s mostly their attitude that needs changing: listening to users, not rushing out stuff too early, properly testing stuff before release, thinking through the consequences of changes they do, “forgetting” to do or include things. But when your management structure is having none, and you let staff choose their tasks, and the left hand doesn’t know what their right hand is doing, layered with crap support and PR well…
June 9th, 2007 at 1:00 AM
Buck Buck Buck…………..You really are the great and the rest us just unknowing losers right ? ………..OMG don`t you love these know all people………..
June 9th, 2007 at 1:03 AM
Hi there,
first… please notice there are some european customers. to add GMT-time on a regular basis would just be a friendly wink.
second… i´m not dicussing needs of updates, software development or sl-architectur. but wer had 3 days of a not running system. people seeling content or land are main part to keep SL running and growing. they need to make their deals. so - after major problems (8h or more, or 4h on prime-time europe/continental us) - please keep sl running at least a week before starting further work.
for the people “only” pla