Keeping Second Life Safe, Together
Thursday, May 31st, 2007 at 6:00 PM by: daniellindenThe diversity of things to see and do within Second Life is almost unimaginable, but our community has made it clear to us that certain types of content and activity are simply not acceptable in any form. Real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depiction of sexual or lewd acts involving or appearing to involve children or minors; real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of sexual violence including rape, real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of extreme or graphic violence, and other broadly offensive content are never allowed or tolerated within Second Life.
Please help us to keep Second Life a safe and welcoming space by continuing to notify Linden Lab about locations in-world that are violating our Community Standards regarding broadly offensive and potentially illegal content. Our team monitors such notification 24-hours a day, seven-days a week. Individuals and groups promoting or providing such content and activities will be swiftly met with a variety of sanctions, including termination of accounts, closure of groups, removal of content, and loss of land. It’s up to all of us to make sure Second Life remains a safe and welcoming haven of creativity and social vision.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:08 PM
I can’t wait to see the moral majority rise up and tell us all what is extreme, graphic, and offensive.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:11 PM
Don’t you realize that your driving off flocks upon flocks of people. *Shakes head* This is ridiculous. SL is getting ridiculous. If you truely accepted diversity, then you’d accept all groups equally, and not persecute anyone because of the size of their avatar or what they do in their free time. Next thing you know, Lindens are going to outlaw any form of sex on SL. After that, it’ll be a crash in the in game economy as millions of stores close.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:11 PM
What about acts of bestiality, such as furries?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:12 PM
Erm…Too Many Hippos? O.o
May 31st, 2007 at 6:13 PM
‘Our team monitors such notification 24-hours a day, seven-days a week.’
With all due respect Daniel, I think there are other things your customers would prefer to have monitored on a 24/7 basis, besides informer reports - don’t you?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:14 PM
Phew thank god you are cracking down on this stuff. I have seen things people should never be subjected to popping up from time to time and as the community becomes broader its becoming more and more the case that some of the content and roleplay is getting out of hand. I would hate to lose SL due to the government or law enforcement agencies having to act on such stuff. Keep up the good work Linden Lab and lets all pitch in to help get rid of some of the aweful stuff that has been popping up.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:15 PM
Byebye hard alley
And good riddance.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:16 PM
The moral majority … or a plausible denial. Cross-cultural standardisation of behaviour is an unlikely convergence considering your user base. And Californian ideology will always be a sycophant pissing in the wind of cultural diversity. So you at LL stick to fixing the technology and the rest of the world will use it to the limit … and beyond. Safe? Who decides what is safe?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:17 PM
Smart people are just going to do it in IMs. -shrugs-
May 31st, 2007 at 6:17 PM
I thank you people who created second life, for caring enough to try and make sure that we do what is right for ourselves and for the whole of secondlife. i walk around to stores and find really terrible pictures and things being sold that just help to disfigure people from the inside. after a while you feel like no one is looking at these problums and it makes you feel scaried and alone. just yesterday someone tried to rape my charactor, and i have no idea why. that person is also being fed the wrong things through second life and real life, and so am i every time i login, or watch tv. i know it is hard to care when you feel like no one else does, and to stand up for what is right because it feels like it does not matter to anyone, but it does, and i am someone who this effects. it has effected my whole life in real time, and in this time. i would be so very happy if you could encourage this,. let us be there for each other as one family. i thank you for listening.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:18 PM
@ Gigs
Bestiality is the act of a human having sex with an ACTUAL animal. Furry sex occurs between two people dressed in animal costumes. One is a crime; the other kink.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:19 PM
One important point to remember, in most states, the “Real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depiction of sexual or lewd acts involving or appearing to involve children or minors”
is against the law, and the offender can be sentenced to prison and have a life-long record as a sex offender.
I work in the child abuse field and am more aware of these laws than some SL residents may be. Would hate to see residents experience such extreme RL repercussions.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:20 PM
Ann, I know full well that Furries don’t consider it bestiality. But that doesn’t seem to matter in this brave new SL where the moral majority gets to decide what is offensive and what isn’t.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:20 PM
Typical. The ‘moral’ idiots are turning second life into a socializing game… News flash, if you want a socializing game, then GO TO CHAT ROOMS. Fucking prudes.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:20 PM
“24-hours a day, seven-days a week”
O.o
Minus 48 Hours, 2 Days For The “Unstaffed” Weekends…
And…
If Theyre Not “Unstaffed” Why Doesnt The Support Portal Work On Weekends?
Why Doesnt Any Linden Answer IMs?
Who Will Rid SL Of All These Horrible Hippos?
O.o
May 31st, 2007 at 6:21 PM
Ann,
And pedophelia, similarly defined, would be the act of having sex with an ACTUAL underage, not just an ADULT wearing a child av. Can’t have it both ways.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:23 PM
Would this be why when I reported images of “REAL” child pornography the abuse reports were “resolved” with no action taken?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:25 PM
1. Check your own post and don’t repeat lines.
2. Whats wrong with RL images?
3. Whats offensive to some is a fetish to other.
and gig’s, screw you.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:26 PM
i dont know about the rest of you but i wouldnt want sl to be seen by the rest of the world as little more than a haven for those with illigal sex fetishes (if its doesnt involve violence or children thats another isslue). a place where sickos can get what they want with little to stop them.
i would like to see secondlife respected as a place of opportunity and digital magic… something fun that everyone can take part in….
the real world has rules and regulations… and as second life becomes more advanced…. more like the real world… it makes sense that some limits be imposed.
dont be angry.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:27 PM
@6 I agree
Real Life Images? Wth they give us a spot for our 1st life pic…..
May 31st, 2007 at 6:28 PM
when will ll take notice of things that sl citizens REALLY care about, such as stability, inventory integrity, exploitive bots, and so on?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:29 PM
I just wonder what is considered broadly offensive…?
And I find it wrong to say you cant roleplay rape, or ageplay (without children AVs) when they cant monitor if its done anyways. Are they going to be listening in on peoples IMs so they hear what they say?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:29 PM
I think it would be worth asking: what constitutes “other broadly offensive content?”
You are making some very dangeous assumptions that what the majority deems unacceptable is always fair — this is why (at least in the United States) we have a Supreme Court. It is important to defend the rights of the minority from the ignorance of the majority.
If it were the consensus of Second Life users to ban homosexuality, what would the opinion of Linden Labs be?
If it were the consensus of Second Life users that graphic violence was acceptable so long as it was directed against a homsexual, what would the opinion of Linden Labs be?
What would happen if white supremacists suddenly began using Second Life as a haven, thereby tipping the majority opinion in favor of banning avatars that appear as other races?
These are extreme examples that I hope would never come to pass, but such a decree as the one you have made that “majority rules, no matter what” begs that the questions be asked and answered. While no one may cry that the child pornographers and rape fantasizers are vanishing today, what will happen when the unopposed Morality Police grows fangs tomorrow?
How long will it be before any sort of “inappropriate” sexual activity is outlawed by Second Life? Will we see a ban on expressions of sodomy? Sexual activity outside of wedlock? Will it become illegal for “partnerships” to be declared in Second Life between two avatars of the same gender? Will furries be outlawed as “beastiality” when in reality they are promoting nothing of the sort?
What happens if two people are in private, inaccessible land and an opportunistic voyeur disables their camera constraints, zooms into their private home and spies on them consensually participating in some “unaccaptable” activity that they have by all rights taken every precaution to hide from the public eye so as not to violate the “rules?” Will they, too, be tracked down, have their land seized, and be burned at the stake?
You need to be very, very careful about how you proceed with this, LL. You’re starting to venture out onto the slipperiest slope of all and swinging the axe of moderation on the internet … a place known and loved for its uninfringed freedom of speech and expression.
-Onyx
May 31st, 2007 at 6:30 PM
Ann, hate to say this, but and adult haveing sex with another adult who looks like a minor but isn’t, isn’t a crime either, but they still want to ban it. So by THERE reason, all furrys have to stop having sex with humans now or you will be baned. If SL doesn’t enforce that, then they shouldn’t enforce ANY MORAL JUDGEMENT that is unsubstantiated by law.
And SL. The customers didn’t ask for this, that german group that came in simply embarased you, so now your just doing damage control instead of sticking up for resient’s rights. Nothing ilegal was going on in that incident, and you still baned them, most possible preventing them from access to there INTELECTUAL PROPERTY RIGHT over anything they made. Thus YOU have commited an illegal act.
If you get a petition signed by over 50% of the residents of SL saying they don’t want things like you describe in SL thats one thing. But knee jurk reacting to a bit of negative press by taking away aspects of the game which are perfectly legal and potentialy breaking intelectual copyright law which you bang on your chest so much about is nothing but imoral, unethichal, and possibly illegal.
Then again, since there is no way to get ahold of you anymore, I guess you real rarely have a chance to violate customer’s rights.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:31 PM
Rape? Could you be a bit more specific. SL has a lot of “rape” like gestures/animations especially in BDSM. But as for minors, I agree.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:32 PM
About time you cracked down on age players. I once stumbled on a nest of these unspeakable monsters — child and adult avatars — having sex in a bathroom. Made me sick, still does to think about it.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:33 PM
It’s all about PR … Linden Labs after all is a business after all, and thinks that bad publicity on a national or international scale would ruin them.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:33 PM
!!!!!
OMG, I mean ZOMG!
What the ache ee double hocky-sticks does “broadly offensive” and “potentially illegal” mean? You are making no difference between someone “greifing” someone else by playing a rape scenario out to them against their willl and two people playing out a role playing fantasy on their own land while being spyed on by nosy AR hawks.
So why don’t you just come out and say it? SL is 100% RL now!!! Up till now I think we could all agree that if it was somthing that could be shown in movies, R, XXX whatever then it was ok (given mature land status and some modesty of location). Your list of bannable behavior up there completely trumps any sort of fantasy whatsoever and reduced “acceptable” behavior to that which you would expect to see in public in real life.
GOOD BYE FANTASY! And frankly goodbye SL. What IS the point then? If SL becomes another sims or another There guess where you’ll be then? Exactly where they are now…
BTW, there has alrady been talk about groups of people banding togeather and roaming SL ARing everything in sight that is not PG. Way to whip up the vigilantes by giving them a badge and telling them to go forth and report your neighbors.
And finally your COMMUNITY did NOT make it clear to you. You PANICED because of a single incident. Don’t try to pawn this off as a “Moral majority” type smoke screen.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:34 PM
Exactly what do you classify “offensive” content as? And are you trying to kill the XXX in SL, because once the XXX is gone, the teen grid will be just as “exciting” =P as the adult grid.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:35 PM
This is never what I wanted, and I know it will affect a lot of people who never considered themselves to be doing anything wrong. While I don’t particularly agree with a lot of the things I see on SL, I don’t feel that people should be restricted from doing it at all. In this case, this broad stroke seems to be vague enough to include any S&M play.
This is much less ambiguous than the ageplay issue - which in my mind was ambiguous because it involved two consenting adults where one was pretending to be a child. It LOOKS like a lewd act with a child, innocence lost, which would NEVER be acceptable IRL.
However, “rape play” is a common enough theme in RL S&M relationships. Two consenting adults pretending to be involved in an act of rape happens every single day. You don’t like it? Don’t want to see it? Conveniently they are doing it in private, where you don’t have to go. I’ve always felt the same way about this sort of thing on SL. If you don’t like it, don’t go to sims where that sort of thing happens.
If this simply made it clear that this was unacceptable on public lands and in public places I would not have as much concern. But this seems to be a broad stroke that covers all of SL, public and private, and covers “depictions of sexual violence” - which pretty much means no more S&M at all.
I don’t even participate in anything sexual on SL, but this decision bothers me a lot.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:36 PM
It might help if you’d ever make up your minds on what you consider objectionable or offensive instead of allowing people to go off on witch-hunts against residents they dislike. We’ve already seen examples of people accusing competitors or neighbors of being underage or selling questionable content when they weren’t, and LL’s response has been to pull the trigger immediately without investigation.
You’re allowing other residents with vendettas to attack other residents, and you really should work pro-actively to STOP this misuse. If nothing else, allowing everyone to go crazy abuse-reporting any hint of nudity or any person they dislike as a pedophile will overtax your team and help ensure the REAL abuse slips through the net.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Wait, what the fuck happened to ‘in the privacy of your own home’?! We own the land, right? So, if someone doens’t like what we do on our land, they’ll report us, and BOOM, big brother LL will come down and crack down!
May 31st, 2007 at 6:36 PM
No offense LL, but you really should be more specific on your official blog. “Sexual violence”,”rape”, etc… be a bit more specific.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:36 PM
Benethar Fluffball … I agree. Get rid of that horrible stuff that pops up. Like a person in real life who made a conscious decision to call themselves Benethar Fluffball. WTF!!!
I would suggest that a lot of people addicted to SL take time out and play a First Person Shooters for relaxation and perspective. Or maybe go down their local bar and have a normal conversation.
Actually I don’t normally post … but I consider that having wasted a few hours reading to inane opinionated bullshit on these blogs over the last few months I might as well add to the stream of sanctimony that an ‘outrage’ spawns.
Perspective is a useful tool when considering a three dimensional view of a two dimesional reality.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:37 PM
NO one is actually doing any of the above things. They are avatars.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:37 PM
So exactly what does this “update” mean?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:38 PM
I for one thank our Linden benefactors for what they are doing. The smut peddlers and sexual deviants all need to leave. As I look around it is clear that all those people who want a young, virile avatar really has only one purpose: to have sex with each other. I hope that Linden Labs does all they can to stamp such atrocious behavior out. All young, virile avatars should be banned immediately.
Thank you. Now if you will excuse me I need to go take a shower just for thinking about the kind of awful smut that might happen with a younger avatar.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:38 PM
whats next, IM filtering? will you collate, catagorise, and archive ‘innappropriate’ discussions?
i am getting sick of all the nana overseeing bs.
GO SQUASH BUGS its what i pay you for not this stupid crap!
May 31st, 2007 at 6:39 PM
to hell with safe how about giving us a STABLE grid??!!
or an actual update that doesnt destroy everyones inventory?
better yet, how about a team of developers with some common sense?
give me that, then we cna talk about the “saftey” of SL :rolleyes:
May 31st, 2007 at 6:40 PM
@24, I have to agree, LL should spend some time and money on fixing bugs rather than generating more work and more problems for themselves. Never seen a game that wants to downgrade itself so quickly. =(
May 31st, 2007 at 6:42 PM
In the light of what has happened recently at LiveJournal, Daniel, what sort of safeguards are in place to avoid a future “Warrior of Innocence” from forcing some unnecessary bannings or other actions?
May 31st, 2007 at 6:42 PM
Perhaps ‘our community’ would also like a bill of rights….would be nice if LL would support some level of self governance, so that what ‘our community’ really wants could be discerned. And, perhaps a court system that would be able to mediate taking of ‘property’ (loss of land). I simply don’t know how LL will be able to mange SL if they feel that every tin pot local or national govt can dictate the behavior of the ‘residents’ of SL.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:43 PM
@27 None. (Unless you consider the game being offline a safegaurd. =P)
May 31st, 2007 at 6:44 PM
Real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depiction of sexual or lewd acts involving or appearing to involve children or minors; real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of sexual violence including rape, real-life images, avatar portrayals, and other depictions of extreme or graphic violence, and other broadly offensive content are never allowed or tolerated within Second Life.
and another thing: you mean it takes a FORIEGN government to get you off your butts, to deal with the very things, YOU LL, IGNORED!!! when reports were filed against this very thing.
so now you expect US those who are paying you for a SERVICE(Your ToS, read it sometime),are goin to decide whats best for US? gimme a break, i should send every post regardign this kneejerk, too little, too late posturing garbage to the press. since those are the ones LL tends to listen to.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:45 PM
The term “broadly offensive” is the catch-all that is of concern. What exactly is “broadly offensive” anyway? Some would call a confederate flag “broadly offensive” while others it is a symbol of culture and would filnd it “broadly offensive” to censor it. And in this interesting conundrum, both sides feel that theirs is the approach of “reasonable minds” while the other is radical and intolerant. Still others could’nt give less of a darn.
Be careful LL. This is a potentially slippery slope.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:47 PM
think about it from LL’s perspective:
yea your sad to see the game “go downhill”….
but in loosing the furry/ageplay/rape loving market sl will gain respect and attract other markets that could be more intrested in profit and fun…
sl would be more widely respected and used.
more money for ll.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:50 PM
Will someone kindly tell me how SL is being made “Safe and Welcoming” when you are siccing residents like Dogs of War on places that are “broadly offensive” and “potentially illegal”? The three terms currently within quotation marks must be properly defined, I think.
“Broadly offensive” must mean “Offending to a large number of people.” In that case, you may as well flag all of SL, because I’ve long held that for any given there will arise two groups of people: Those who want it, and those who want it destroyed.
As for “Potentially illegal”… that’s a shady term right there, through and through. When you’re dealing with legality, something either is, or it isn’t. There is no grey area except for “By whose law”? And let’s be serious here, LLHQ is on American soil.
And perhaps most importantly… WHAT’S THE POINT!? If an avatar comes across something they find “broadly offensive” or “potentially illegal” as a third-party witness… and this “Offensive activity” is being undertaken by consenting adults and isn’t harming anyone… Guess what? The third-party witness has the power to teleport ELSEWHERE.
You are messing with freedom of expression here. You are stifling people’s creative drive. So what if it’s the creative drive to be amoral in new and interesting ways? If they do it here, they’re not doing it in RL, are they?
If you want to draw a parallel between ageplayers and pedophiles, fine. Fine, let’s do it your way. But let’s do it all the way, or not at all. Let’s go on to people who frequent combat sims, and call them serial killers. Let’s move on to those people whose avatars commonly carry marijuana and other contrabands and call them junkies. Then let’s go to Gor and… uhm… okay, let’s just not go to Gor at all.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:50 PM
How about fixing the MUTE list bug… how about the server stability.
If the Germans want to generate publicity do like we did in Mirc. Ban the German IP range.. simple and quick. If you want to censor the mature zones in SL SL is going to lose in the end because its the biggest appeal the non-mature zones are casino spam.
As for the facts the last week in SL all I’ve seen are German and italian sadist wandering the mature zones having the most extreme painful sex I’ve seen.
Germans dont like mature just redirect them to teen SL.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:51 PM
Maybe PayPal gave them a warning… There TOS:
“PayPal will process payments for the purchase and sale of certain sexually oriented physical goods but currently does not allow transactions for sexually oriented digital goods. PayPal also currently does not allow transactions for any sexually oriented physical or digital goods by non-U.S. residents.
Physical Goods
PayPal permits transactions for certain sexually oriented physical goods by U.S. residents. Physical goods include videos, DVDs, magazines or other tangible products physically delivered to the customer. In determining what physical goods are permitted or prohibited, PayPal may consider some or all of the following factors:
Any regulations or restrictions on the purchase or sale of the good in the applicable jurisdiction.
The classification of the good by a recognized ratings board.
Whether the work depicts or describes, in a patently offensive way, sexual conduct.
Representations or descriptions of intercourse, masturbation, excretory functions, or lewd exhibition of the genitals.
Dominant theme of the material or website.
Literary, artistic, political, or scientific value.
Safety and protection of its customers, both buyers and sellers.
Medical or educational usage of the product or service.
Digital Goods
PayPal prohibits transactions for all sexually oriented digital goods. Digital goods include downloaded pictures or videos, subscriptions to websites, or other content delivered through a digital medium.
Other Prohibited Goods and Services
Notwithstanding the requirements and factors described above, PayPal prohibits transactions for the following goods or services:
Any sexually oriented goods or services involving minors, or made to appear to involve minors.
Any services for which the purpose is to facilitate meetings for sexually oriented activities.
PayPal will not include sexual preferences or viewpoints as a factor in determining what goods or services are prohibited under the Mature Audiences Policy.”
May 31st, 2007 at 6:52 PM
I have to admit that I have no idea what is going on or what is really being discussed here. However “morals” & “politics” are a sticky thing. Whenever an emotionally charged event happens, I have noticed that people tend to “overreact” due to some emotion. As to what is “right” and “wrong” it is always a relative thing.
All things are like a balancing act. You lean too far in one direction you have 1985 (or pre-86 East Germany) or the other and you have anarchy (which leads to other problems). I think it is good that Linden Labs has decided to let people know that something is being done without being too specific. It is “impossible” to strictly monitor any human thing that closely even with a high level AI and an excellent staff. It is also “impossible” to decide what is to be considered acceptable and not acceptable fairly to everyone. Therefore it is important to have a clear response to whatever this is and to be wise in the response.
-S. Y.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:53 PM
So when will this “update” start taking effect? (It’d be nice if Lindens actually read and responded in their own blog.)
May 31st, 2007 at 6:55 PM
I think its pretty sick that some of y’all are defending sex with minors. Fetish or not thats just sick and illegal. I think its great that LL is showing they have MORALS. Nothing wrong with that.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:56 PM
Please explain: Things that are legal in real life, (in California anyway), are now not acceptable in SL? Role playing a rape is now not acceptable in SL, while completely legal in RL? Adults role playing minors, while legal in RL is permanent ban in SL? Should I be worried about smoking a crack pipe in SL? Oh wait, that’s not legal in RL; so, it’ll be legal in SL? What about smoking a joint in SL? Legal in certain circumstances in certain states, but not legal federally; so where does that stand? What if I act drunk in public in SL?
Please clarify exactly what is “broadly offensive content”.
May 31st, 2007 at 6:59 PM
Thanks for this LL
and to clarify…
furries != (does not equal) beastiality
humans + feral animals = (equals) beastiality
May 31st, 2007 at 7:00 PM
And here comes the pain. Reports falsely filed, people being reported for ageplay who aren’t involved in sexual acts, other foreign governments seeing an opening to enforce their own laws on SecondLife, the loss of most of the liberties on SecondLife that have made it what it is.
Despite LL being based in America, where fictional protrayals of this act are legal, a foreign government has scared them into complying with foreign laws. In some countries, it’s illegal for females to show their faces. If those governments start putting pressure on LL, do you think they’ll give in again and enforce that?
And then there is the fact that SL is designed to be a fantasy world, where things that can’t be done irl can be roleplayed. I hate pedophilia the same as anyone, but if they want to roleplay it in SL between two consenting adults, hey, better there than IRL. Of course now they can’t, so where are they gonna go? Tell me, what can get more real than SecondLife, hm?
Companies get brought up on ridiculous lawsuits by foreign governments all the time, trying to enforce those laws on an American Company, and those companies always fight back, and almost always win, because foreign governments don’t have any say here, but LL, they’re the exception. They bend over and take it when foreign governments start to hollar, so expect alot more of this, Residents, LL has shown weakness. Get ready for a bumpy ride into grid-wide PG.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:00 PM
Second Life is now Salem Life. Be prepared to be burned at the stake in a hysteria of mob mentality with little to no factual basis for the persecution.
At least in SL, you can make very small rocks float.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:00 PM
Alright people this is getting a little out of hand. Lindens, you are a an American company so what has happened to the concepts of “innocent until proven guilty” and “the right to a fair trial”? You are imposing a rule that allows you to take everything someone has, their land, their property, even their money without giving them a chance to defend themselves. I understand that there may be indecent activity in SOME places of SL however, I have not even heard about most of the things that you claim. When I walk into a place that has something I don’t want to see, I have every right to walk or teleport away. No one, in any way forces me to stay at those places.
If you intend to have the majority of our community make SL laws, then there needs to be a FAIR system for all of us to VOTE on what we think is important. I would assume that the vast majority of users either haven’t heard of these activities or don’t even care that they occur in some remote sim that only perverts visit. I am right aren’t I? You wouldn’t even be in a place like that if you weren’t a pervert.
So let me ask you this, where is the PROOF that the majority of us want this to take effect? Do you have a valid poll, a petition signed by nearly 1Million Residents? I have serious doubts that you do.
I do not say these things just to cause grief with LL, I say these things because I do not want our community policed by uptight prissy do-goods who have personal vendettas or bias against certain activity or people. This opens the door for a WHOLE new form of Griefer, the one who uses the naivity of the Lindens to shut down entire businesses or sims because they have PERSONAL issues with them. What happens when someone photoshops an image together of an ‘illegal’ activity occuring on land he want’s to buy, uses that image to get the residents BANNED from their own property, then buys it for himself at a very nice price? With this sort of attitude of OMG I THINK IT’S WRONG BAN THEM is going to foster this type of attack, even against legitamite business owners who may not partake in such activity.
The next question, what if someone creates a couple Avi’s with the INTENT of performing these ‘illegal’ acts on someone elses property? Does the property owner get punished for allowing it on his land, even if the report was filed when he was offline on vacation? What happens when people just move this type of activity to fake secondary accounts and perform these acts on Linden owned land instead to flaunt it in your face?
In my honest opinion guys, this is the worst idea you have come up with and I have a bad feeling it’s being pushed on you by someone in upper management who is closed minded and biased. This IS NOT REAL LIFE if we wanted REAL LIFE we would not be here. It is fantasy land, a figment of your imagination and at any moment it could cease to exist entirely. There are no real physical people inside this universe, and no real physical crime can be committed. The ONLY issue I see reason in taking action is uploading images / video of REAL LIFE activities that are actually ILLEGAL in the country in which the proprieter resides. What is illegal for us in the US may be completely normal in Europe or Asia, how will you impose all forms of international and intranational law? Does that mean we have to follow every single law of every country? If that is so, we have a serious issue and nearly everything in SL is illegal. You have already taken actions to indemnify yourself in every legal agreement we signed when starting our accounts. You as a company, cannot be held liable for what us as residents do and you never will be.
I don’t think you have all your ducks in a row on this issue.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:01 PM
What about harrassment / deafaction / destruction of religious sites by griefers that are yet to “claim responsibilioty”….how long does it take Linedn Labs to sit up and take notice of reports
Lawlessness and mindless destruction on combat sims is fine thats role playing. Going around destroying educational, religious, informational sims. Is just pure and simple vandalism. And like the little boy that wrecked the public phone …those responsible should be held accountable.
A safer Second Life, to me implies that creative content and educational content will in fact be safe from damge by other residents provided as the creator/owner you take the provided steps .
Well Mr & Mrs Linden..We did that
we followed all your advice
tech knowledge base answers etc etc
and guess what
you dont answer requests for assistance
you reply days after the occurance
you fail in your basic duty of service to allow the peaceful usage of a resource that we as a group have paid for.
not kosher mr and mrs linden
WHEN WILL YOU STEP IN
Stop making silly new sky eye candy rubbish
and concentrate on ridding the place of those hell bent on its demise.
and i so advise
May 31st, 2007 at 7:02 PM
Why are RL pictures against the rules when there is a spot in our profile specifically for them?
Once again I have to ask…does having a short avie = having a child avie? I am 5′ in RL, if I had a 5′ avie would I be banned for having a child avie?
I agree, fix the bugs, get the grid stable, and then worry about this stuff.
Also…what is graphically violent? Does that mean all the shooter sims are out? Considering how the technology works, nobody can be in a “rape” position without consent, so why would that be offensive to the parties included?
This whole idea makes no sense with the coming verification. Anyone who would be offended by any of those behaviours would simply not verify and then they wouldn’t have to have any access to it. If people could just keep their noses out of other people’s business there would be no need to worry about being offensive. This is al virtual, so no physical harm will come to anyone no matter what anyone does as far as sexual behaviors.
LL I think your priorities are way off. Not to mention, if said offender should be a basic member, what support recourse do they have to defend themselves now that basic members have no access to support?
May 31st, 2007 at 7:02 PM
thank you, LL, for finally taking a stance on this.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:03 PM
Last I checked, everything in SL is voluntary. You can’t even undress someone else’s avatar against their will– all sexual contact, no matter what it looks like, is by definition voluntary in this environment. This really seems like a bridge too far– sex in SL is basically just erotic fiction written by two (or more) people. Nobody really gets hurt, or taken advantage of. YOU CANNOT BE FORCED TO DO IT AGAINST YOUR WILL. This is an unambiguous fact– there is no such thing as rape or sexual assault in SL.
You’re banning people making up stories about certain sexual activities? People who you’re supposedly going to be verifying are all consenting adults? Seriously, what is wrong with you people?
I am not going to renew my premium account when it comes due.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:03 PM
“our community has made it clear to us”
This is such a dubious claim that it is laughable. At best, what LL can claim is that “a subset of those residents who make a point of voicing their opinion has made it clear to us”. There is no way you can even claim that a majority of “the community” has made anything clear.
What exactly is “the community”? All registered residents? All residents who have logged on in the last 30 days? All residents who have been registered for more than a certain period of time?
True community standards are determined by concensus and codified into laws. What process has LL undertaken to actually gauge what the concensus of “the community” truly is? True community standards have an appeal mechanism, where disputes can be ajudicated by an impartial 3rd party. Where is the SL equivalent of this? True community standards have a process whereby they can be amended and evolve. What is the equivalent process in SL?
LL is free to set their rules of behavior however they desire. It angers me, however, when instead of being forthright and admitting that these rules are issued by fiat and enforced unilaterally, that LL hides behind claims that they are doing “what the community wants”. It also angers me that instead of clear and unambiguous rules of conduct, LL uses phrases such as “extreme violence”, which are so vague that they can be construed to include anything that a Linden or a resident filing an AR finds objectionable.
This isn’t a policy that engenders a haven of creativity or “social vision” (whatever that is); this is a blank check for nosy residents to use the AR mechanism to enforce their own peculiar sense of morality, without any kind of recourse.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:04 PM
As soon as I saw a SL blog entry labeled, “Keeping Second Life Safe, Together” I knew I’d have to come read it.
Sure enough it was a typical Linden Politically-correct drivel-fest punctuated with the Linden self-concern for the bottom line and what the media might be thinking at the moment behind a smokescreen of self-serving moral superiority.
You folks at the labs need to listen to the user base … which based on the posts I’ve read here to this point … seem to indicate
(1) As it’s clear you can’t keep the grid up and very stable for very long, …
Which seems to piss off (pardon, me Daniel, you might want to read “frustrate” if your brain needs to) the majoritity of “us.”
So why should those of us who pay you good money to do (1) above trust you / think you can / believe you might in any way be cabable of
(2) Monitoring … _ in any way _ the crap Daniel mentioned above … much less something as vague as “other broadly offensive.”
You folks seem determined to slowly take a knife to your own throats while strangling the wants and needs of the “community” you are stomping on at every opportunity (all the while gloating about pretty new rendering technologies … while fundamental bugs continue to remain unadressed).
I’m going to try and log into my Second Life, and calm down a bit.
Assuming, of course, the grid is up when I get there.
But hey, if I NEED to feel SAFE?
I’m an ADULT. If I see something or something HAPPENS to me in Second Life I don’t like (not makes me UNSAFE … that can’t happen to me in Second Life as I am an ADULT)?
I can … um … gee .. LOG OFF.
And you folks keep this kind of attitude up? I’ll do the BIG log off soon.
Peace and love.
Andy Zadeh
May 31st, 2007 at 7:05 PM
I think as for the roleplaying of minors it just applies to sexual portrailes. Maybe the LIndens should clarify that, or maybe they just like being vauge.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:05 PM
Holy shit, that was coming a lot quicker than I thought. That slippery slope people were talking about around the first occurrences of blocking ads must be a lot steeper and a lot more slippery than I foresaw.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:06 PM
There is no rape in SL. You can just log out or TP away. Rape implies non-consensual forced sex. Equating rape fantasy in SL with RL Rape is outrageously insensitive to anyone that has experienced sexual violence in their real life.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:06 PM
Once again, the Labs announce that they have no idea what they are doing.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:07 PM
“Safe” for who, exactly? People who can’t understand that “adult” means they may be exposed to things they personally don’t like? I mean, yes, we don’t like age-play, and I’ll be the first to say there are SOME things that I don’t want to be exposed to, but (a) the whole point of considering something “kinky” is that this wonderful “moral majority” of yours isn’t into it, and (b) if no one is actually HURT, notwithstanding someone who is so immature they’ll go “Gasp, I was FORCED to see that it EXISTS instead of simply not going there or teleporting away!”, what’s wrong with it?
Oh, and “depictions of sexual violence” is bad? Guess you might as well ban everything Gor-related.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:07 PM
Seems to me that instead of knee-jerking on one position or another it might be useful to collaborate with LL so that 1) ensure that LL’s legal butt is covered and that 2) avatars have the freedom to present themselves as they please provided that they act within the laws that pertain.
To many people are snapping to judgements: Pedos around? The common hysterial reaction is to Ban all Lolis or child AVs. The issue is not of the presentation of an AV but that of THEIR BEHAVIOUR.
So, instead of the big moral discourses, what PRACTICAL measures can we take that will permit non-sexual players to enjoy their avs while addressing the issue of protecting them from pedos and of finding and eliminating pedo behaviour? Banning a class of AV is short sighted and much too facile–and it fails to resolve the issue.
I am in the process of creating a charter for a group that will assist LL in keeping their legal butts safe while permitting us such freedom. It is a very difficult, complex and time consuming task and if anyone is interested in helping, has a legal background, or a background in social services that could help in this, please let me know.
Little Ones Good. Pedo Activity Bad.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:08 PM
Great. Lovely. Once again, you invite people to send you abuse reports based on incredibly vague statements, no guidelines to speak of, and no assurance that there might be recourse for people who are banned as a result of a vendetta or bigotry.
I understand that you want the grid to be more complicit with international law, but you are opening a Pandora’s box and I have no faith any longer that your approach to this will be in any way fair.
Give us guidelines, for the love of all that is intelligent. Tell us what will get us banned, tell us what is safe. Tell us PRECISELY where the new bar is set, because this is ridiculous.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:09 PM
you’re kidding right? avatar depictions of…. geez ul petes they’re cartoons people!!
May 31st, 2007 at 7:09 PM
I don’t care what the majority thinks, screw the majority, if they’r e offended they can just stay out of Midian City or other places. Nobody is taking a gun to their head and forcing them to view this content, we have search filters to block mature content and a mute list, shut up and use them.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:10 PM
Will the lindens give people a chance to defend thereselves and if proven false then say ban the accuser?
May 31st, 2007 at 7:10 PM
smdh..Linden Labs are hanging themselves..this is ridiculous. As much as we can all go on and on about it here and everywhere within the game in the forms of protests, meetings or petitions..guess what guys..it’ll fall on deaf ears just like everything ELSE we care about and convey to them countless times. Just a mess..
May 31st, 2007 at 7:10 PM
Regardless of whether or not Furry related sexual depictions are bannable offenses under this, a good chunk of the furry population will be bannable for other offenses, including beastiality, vore, bdsm, transformation roleplay, and a multiplitude of other forms of ‘kink’ related conduct. In addition, all forms of BDSM roleplay, Gorean Culture, and other forms of conduct must now be halted. This could be taken as well that things such as Second Life Boxing are no longer allowed, or Swordfighting events, or other forms of recreational combat.
If this is an attempt to create more freeland by telling over 100 sim owners that they must change the themes of their sims and tell at least half of their residents that they are restricted from performing some sort of activity that they considered normal, then please let us know. Because this will specifically
Also, please let us know how this is an actual rule. I don’t see any clear cut lines. Or is it a suggestion? Or is it the rogue action of an individual whom isn’t actually speaking for Linden Labs? I really can’t tell with these blog posts.
However, it’s nice to know that some things that are legal for me to do in real life are deemed illegal in second life. Presuming that this isn’t all some sort of a joke. You are joking, right? Because I thought that PG land was supposed to be a place people whom didn’t want these type of activities going on were supposed to be safe from it, while Mature land allowed for nudity, sexual content, and violence, so long as they were consentual to the user.
Funny though, that those things that occur that are not consentual to the users are seemingly viewed as minor compared to actions that occur that are completely consentual and accepted by the users involved, and those in the surrounding areas, and do not have a negative impact upon anyone. I mean, how long has it been the last great crusade against griefers on this blog?
Another irony would be that if you do not outlaw things such as sex between black people, lesbians, or gays, then outlawing such activities as BDSM and Furry sexual acts that aren’t illegal in real life, would be discriminatory. And I do not believe the ToS protects Linden Labs from discriminatory lawsuits amongst other things, which this would certainly leave room for. Especially considering a population size of over 1,000 furries with well over $30,000 USD invested in sims. Then look at Goreans, then go the Age-Play people whom don’t have sex, but have been left in the dark as a consequence of all of this negative publicity about ageplay related sexual acts. Then go and look at everyone else whom could possibly lay such a claim. And then consider that all of that money will go elsewhere, where sim owners don’t need to worry about half of their residents disappearing due to discriminatory rulings that aren’t defined, and the users can’t really tell if it’s all a joke, to be reversed in two hours like some late April Fools Prank or not.
PS: I hope you take this post into some consideration, because as anti Linden Lab as it is, I believe it at least has SOME logic to it.
I’ll be in game if you want to get in touch with me.
PSS: I’ll also be doing a report on this for the SL Times, so if you want to send me your comments, I’ll be happy to discuss this with people in game.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:12 PM
JayDee Unknown: PayPal does not pay for these items, Linden Dollars are exchanged through SL. PayPal is only used to pay for the neutral Linden Dollars which are used to purchase the items, so it is technically legal.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:12 PM
Dear Lindens,
What you have done is to create paranoia in Second Life. If you want all of us to conform to some middle America sense of morality just come out and say it. I can see the people with torches and pitchforks at the door of anyone who is different from themselves.
Sincerely,
Ms Susie Boffin
May 31st, 2007 at 7:12 PM
Great. SL is quickly degrading to a police state. Will you prosecute all the roleplay then? Goreans, furries, dark medieval and dark urban sims? And who will need SL in this condition? Roleplay is the single reason to come here for 90% of subscribers. Next week some sect will troll LL demanding to prohibit homosexuality or atheism here, and you will surrender again?
May 31st, 2007 at 7:13 PM
…most of the furries I know don’t want to have sex with human avatars.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:13 PM
“Owned and run by the users” That is LL statment to the perss in 42 countries!!! As i Island owner and a private estate owner i deside what i want on my land! I do not allow ageplay or animals sex with human. But i allow nudety and sex..i do not allow sexuall harressemet based on sexual gender! My places are mature. I got a staff of adult securety members.I alone as owner makes the rules on my land.We follow the TOS as its set to a mature SIM.
Besides,, LL can not peak in to what member got in there inventory.. as loong as items can be rezed on a land anyone can rez anything wen ever thay want. And telling us that LL got a 24/7 monitoring 7 mill wil take a force at 10.000 Linden ppl or more LOOOOOL!!
May 31st, 2007 at 7:15 PM
Hooboy…LL, I think you are just setting yourself up for yet another lawsuit, or perhaps a series of them with this sudden Big Brother mentality. I’m not paying the premium to be monitored, nor do I want a linden popping into the sim I reside in and banning me and my friends for having a roleplay that involves BDSM or somthign that could be offensive to someone in the world (imagine that!).
I agree with the RL kiddie porn ban, but you have to remember this: anything sexual that happens in SL is based all on consent. You HAVE to click the item for anything to happen. If you don’t like where a RP is going, you say so, and if the other person isn’t going to back off, you leave. End of story.
Perhaps the LIndens need to let the residents police themselves, and get back to the important things….like grid stability.
This is Second Life. This is not REAL life. Stop treating this as such, Lindens.
Thank you.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:16 PM
You know, how about we concentrate on really dangerous people, instead of picking on someone with too short of an avatar. You know, because adults can actually tolerate people with difference ideas: schoolyard bullies take it upon themselves to dictate what everyone can and cannot do.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:17 PM
All hail the mighty thought police who will rise up and tell us all what is or is not acceptable in private as well as public. I’m so glad the “moral majority” now get’s to set me strait even whey they aren’t involved, and everyone else as well. Obviously consenting adults cannot decide for themselves what they find offensive.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:17 PM
Second Life is already 100% safe because guess what, nothing that happens there really happens to us! *gasp* It’s true. Having “sex” in Second Life means two people masturbating at their computers. Being “assaulted” and “killed” does not cause us any real bodily harm but instead the worst it can do is move our avatar back to the home location of our choosing. The ONLY thing we stand to lose in SL is the money and time we put into it. So if there is any truth to the rumors of linden-stealing objects and the like, I would think they would be the priority, rather than policing people’s THOUGHTS.
Lindens, get a little perspective and come back to planet earth for a minute, please.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:17 PM
So… have LL given up hopes on SL becoming the 3D internet..
It’s said thay 90% of the traffic on the net is porn..
A high proportion of that porn is broadly offensive to someone or other.
Way to go to shoot yourselves in the foot.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:19 PM
THE THOUGHT POLICE ARE ON ALERT.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:19 PM
Thank you LInden Lab for taking a “Marshal’s” approach to the rather lawless lands of Second Life. I’m sure that this will all be resolved, complete with state, national, and international law as soon as the attorneys get more involved in the virtual world… and that’s guaranteed.
I don’t want to sound like I’m all for cowboy posse roundups before anyone has a chance to defend themselves.
Time will tell.
On that note (the attorneys coming to SL), it’ll be a fine day in my book when international brands and patents are protected/policed as well.
May 31st, 2007 at 7:19 PM
Well, in my opinion, this violates our rights. Areas of non-consent are still used by consenting adults. What you are doing is taking our rights away by making these policies, rights that we have by law in many countries. These people consent to be in non-consent situations, their choice to make, not yours.
Instead, you hand over more ammunition for the griefers to play with, and a lot of places are going to have to shut down, making SL even less enjoyable than what you have been doing so far, now.