Rolling Update for llGiveInventoryList Fix - Completed
Tuesday, May 22nd, 2007 at 7:51 AM by: Joshua LindenAs mentioned previously, the last update had a glitch that made the LSL function llGiveInventoryList() function incorrectly. This restart restores correct behavior of that function.
The rolling restart sweeps through the grid north to south in a wave, asking each region to restart. The regions start a 5-minute countdown with warnings given in-world, then restart. You can teleport south to avoid a restart, or (once the wave hits the mainland) teleport north by several regions to jump “over” the restart wave.
The restart wave will take approximately 2 hours to hit the entire grid.
[Update 10:15am PDT: The rolling update is complete. Thank you for your patience.]
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:01 AM
any news on 1.6 coming out tommorow?
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:02 AM
WOW I actually get here in time to make a comment????
Sigh still more things that just don’t work yet we keep getting “feature creep” rather than good solid working code!
Does LL STILL not get the message from the users?
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:08 AM
@Joshua Linden - Thanks for the heads up on this - something that would be a nice gem would be some way of easily seeing where the rolling restart has got to …
@Karen Palen - Give them a break - they’re fixing what was broken by they’re own admision rather than leaving it till the next majore release and ignoring it as a “it’ll catch up later”
Good going lindens - keep up the hard work
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:08 AM
puts on his restart swimming trunks. Surfs up!
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:08 AM
Oh, Karen, put a sock in it, will you? They are fixing the grid. I am so sick and tired of hearing people complain incessantly about feature creep - you want the world to completely stagnate? What if adding a feature replaces something that’s been causing problems? What if you’ve got a Web Programmer, who knows NOTHING about the core code, you want him to drop what he’s doing, take an intensive six-month course in SL architecture, and start all over from scratch? They have people working on the Grid. They’ve said that. Don’t believe them? LEAVE. Now, so the rest of us can get back to enjoying our SL without having to listen to your constant screeching.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:10 AM
Thanks.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:10 AM
I wonder if this will address the failed TP issues as well?
Presently we have to take the “correct route” to get from some places to others.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:11 AM
alll i keep gettin is crash reports n rainbow flickering cant stay on 4 more than 2 mins what the hell r u doin to fix this problem ur alll ways turnin it off n doin rollin restarts n for what whats the point iff people cant stay on n when it crashes i try to log back in it says ur account is unavable till so n so i jus dont get it anyways try to fix the real issues ll … peace out
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:14 AM
Honestly, do not stop complaining as it is the only feed back that is understood. There are many areas that need fixing one of which has been going on for 2 years the fact that after editing for awhile the cursor goes fat and erases rather than selecting. This happens in both the edit panel and in note cards. In the truth of the matter is the small items need fixing before rolling out more new code. I appreciate the fact that they are working hard but when I get up every morning I flap my arms very hard and try to fly, it never seems to work though
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:25 AM
6. Greetings Enysy Mikita, Just a helpful hint. If you’re having trouble with tp’ing try taking off a few attachments before tp’ing. I know its a hassle, but its always worked for me in the past if ya can’t get somewhere ya need to go.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:25 AM
@4: You are absolutely right!
“when I get up every morning I flap my arms very hard and try to fly, it never seems to work though”
@7: That says a lot about you, and nothing about LL.
@2: The same can be said about you.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:28 AM
Thanks for the fix, Lindens!
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:32 AM
Companies invariably ignore people who only whine about what’s wrong. If you want something done, that’s what the public tracker is for at http://jira.secondlife.com
Use that to engage in constructive criticism that will actually help the situation instead of whining here and having your comments dismissed as irrelevant, which they really are since they had nothing to do with the bug that is being addressed by the rolling restarts announced in this blog post.
2 and 7 both, if you have nothing constructive to say, just STFU already so the rest of us, who have first lives as well as second and are mostly happy with our diversion that is second life can go on enjoying it without your boohooing. You have something that really needs addressed? Start doing some honest troubleshooting and work with the JIRA.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:32 AM
Honestly, to say that we should “stop on the new features” to solely “fix old problems” is like saying we should stop advancing human civilization until we ‘fix’ society’s current problems. Whether you like it or not, the SL build needs to be constantly adding new features to build a stronger, more applicable metaverse. Otherwise, we’d all grow bored as newer, competing metaverses began offering more lucrative features.
It’s just growth, deal with it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:38 AM
Sorry that this will be off topic, but I am very concerned and there doesn’t seem to be any available way to address my concern.
I reported a ‘password changing script’ in a prim via Abuse in game, now I admit I don’t know the extent to what damage this could do to players touching it, however, it is quite shock to be told your password is being changed.
I received the standard e-mail saying it was being looked into and then the verification:
Dear Second Life Resident,
Your Abuse Report has been investigated and resolved. In accordance with our Privacy Policy, Linden Lab will not disclose the resolution of abuse/community standards violations with Second Life residents, except when necessary to introduce a new or amended policy. Linden Lab will not disclose incident details including (but not limited to): identity of the reporter, details of chat logs, resolution of incidents, and suspensions or banning of Second Life Residents.
The Police Blotter, located on the Second Life website, , keeps a running record of abuse resolutions. Although specific information about incidents is not revealed, basic information about the most current disciplinary actions can be found there.
Best,
indra-abuse@secondlife.com
Linden Lab
1100 Sansome Street
San Francisco, CA 94111
Phone 415.243.9000
Fax 415.243.9045
http://www.secondlife.com
————————————————————————-
Abuse: E:1 P:1 |Marunogere| (Marunogere) [Other] {Second Best} “Password changing script?”
BUT! it’s still there, I really don’t understand? the prim isn’t even on land being used, it’s spammed with prims that don’t belong to the owner of the land, surely just removing something like this isn’t difficult. All I can think right now, that any report to the Lindens unless I’m personally violated through some direct crime is a waste of my time and even then any report seems to go unheeded.
Sorry again for being off topic!
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:50 AM
This fix is fine, but I really would like to know:
1) Will there also be a fix for the texture-edit failure?
2) When will sculpties hit the main grid?
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:57 AM
@7 Coventina — Could you please check http://jira.secondlife.com and enter your issue if it’s not already there? It seems you have good experience with it, so hopefully you can provide a solid set of steps to reproduce it. By putting this in JIRA it is much, much more likely to be addressed than noting it in blog comments.
@11 Dekka — Abuse Report is the correct way to address this “password changing prim”. If this is a password phishing scheme where they ask you for your current password, then this had been addressed multiple times in log-in messages and here on the blog. If the prim never asks for your current password, there’s no way it can change it to something else (at least without exploiting an unknown, massive security hole). It really sounds like its just a prim that when touching it, it says that it’s changing your password to frighten you — a form of griefing — though it really doesn’t do anything. The geek in me wants to see this in action. Could you IM me in world with a location?
@Josha Linden et al — Thanks for this fix! I’ve been looking forward to taking down the sign in my store I placed to help head off any questions from customers (maybe it’s why I haven’t gotten a one!). Thanks for your work on fixing bugs AND the new eye candy.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:03 AM
@ Karen Palen:
“Sigh still more things that just don’t work yet we keep getting “feature creep” rather than good solid working code!
Does LL STILL not get the message from the users?”
Just exactly what part of “Rolling Update for llGiveInventoryList Fix” do you not understand? Karen dear, let me speak slowly so you might understand:
Rolling out a FIX to correct a problem (without taking down the grid!) does NOT constitute “feature creep” dear.
This is *exactly* the message from the users, so I’d say its indication that they DO get it, not the contrary! As was said earlier, put a sock in it, will you? (And get a clue please!)
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 AM
Look like some peoples are paid to leave comment? How can you side with SL on puting on new festures and not fixing 2 years old bugs? SL progress because of contents put on by its residents (not new feature), but it is pretty hard to put new content when the viewer is barely usable. The open letter project was not proof enough for LL that resident are fed up with the totaly useless new features and want a STABLE CLIENT. if SL as trouble handle a cube how do you expect it to handle a sculpty?
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 AM
I’m tired of the folks who make multiple entries just to complain over and over. They should have to stand in Linden Lab shoes for a whole and see how really difficult is is to maintain very complex code running on systems that barely meet the minimum requirements. GET A LIFE!!
GOOD JOB Linden’s!! My thanks to all your efforts.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:06 AM
“any news on 1.6 coming out tommorow?” Lol, that’s 1.16.
And, good you’re restarting the grid. Hmm, 2 hours on main grid… equals… 15 minutes on Teen Grid?!?! Woot! xD
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:09 AM
Thanks for the fix Lindens - all fixes are greatly appreciated - seriously!… but nothing was said about why this fix was required. We all know its due to the failed patch implemented late last Friday, but what has happened as a consequence of that disaster? Have you learned anything? Did you give the testers / implementers a stern talking to?
Seriously, as a paying customer I expect better support than simply “We created a problem, and now we are going home”. Statements like that do nothing to bolster the already eroding confidence in your ability to fix existing problems, or provide even basic support.
Yes, I know the new support system is being rolled out - believe me, if it was available now, I would be using it, but you pulled several existing methods of obtaining support before you made their replacement available, leaving a support vacuum, and then we are told to just deal with the latest stuff up. Do you not understand why many of us are feeling this way?
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:11 AM
Thanks for the info and thx for fixing the grid too. I do have one question…When there is a gridwide rolling restart does it always start in the north and proceed towards the south? I ask this because some of my tenants have wanted to bug out (tp) to another region during a restart only to find that they have entered a region that is in the restart window and get logged out. Keep up the great work and dont let the gloom and doomers ruin it for ya.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:19 AM
lol yes 1.16 /doh!
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:20 AM
Thank you for fixing it
And I know now that a lot of crashes comes from stuff that people had on ther PC’s My laptop was online the whol time for more then 16 Hours non stop and I had to log of due to the restart !
Well done Linden .
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:22 AM
this place is just like it but alot funner n u meet real people chat fix ur page earn credits n this place doesnt freez up as much as second life and its quick n easy to download
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:23 AM
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:26 AM
Ever since the rolling restart happened while i was afk, I have been having problems. I was logged out of SL. I tried logging back in and was able to do so, but was not able to move, so I assumed the modem died or I disconnected. Everything else is working fine .. internet, skype, etc.. So it is only my SL that is not. I have tried with both my avi’s logging in to different places and I keep getting the “Verifying Protocol Version” Message befrore being told that “The system may be down. Try back in a few minutes.” This has been going on for over a half hour… Is the restart completed? and if so, is there something I am doing wrong ? Please help.. I am not sure how to get logged in.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:44 AM
Keiko Rau Says:
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:09 AM PDT
Thanks for the fix Lindens - all fixes are greatly appreciated - seriously!… but nothing was said about why this fix was required. We all know its due to the failed patch implemented late last Friday, but what has happened as a consequence of that disaster?
Pleez. It was hardly a disaster. It was an inconvenience. A disaster is people dying. An inconvenience is having purchased objects placed in the generic object folder.
Anything else I can educate you on, Keiko?
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:45 AM
Yay I can once again get some popcorn and see people debate again about bug solving and feature updates.
Thanks all for the fun.
@Linden Lab, thanks for the fast fix.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:48 AM
I love how the restart ‘wave’ sounds like a weather report: “A warm front will be sweeping across the continent… sunny clear skies expected once it’s past, but avoid being there while the front passes through your area!”
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:48 AM
Good job! Keep it up! : )
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:49 AM
Wow… you ppl complain alot about things that are not perfect. Name one thing anywhere anybody ever did that works perfectly. LL does its job…
I’m happy here in SL. and thanks for all the fish.
Your views may be different from others mostly because you are all standing in different places in your life time of experience. Then again … some just like to hear themselves complain.
* Passes a box of huggies out… take one and use it as needed
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:53 AM
Ok, im starting to get rather annoyed by the hundreds of comments about how LL wont fix old bugs but will add new features. There are a few simple facts that people seem to easily forget.
1. LL built SL from the ground up, from Linden World to SL1.15.
2. They fix major bugs first because they are far more important.
3. Sometimes adding new features can fix existing bugs.
4. LINDEN LABS EMPLOYEES ARE PEOPLE, NOT ROBOTS! They dont work their lives away to please you because you marginally enjoy their product. How many of you leave unfinished business at work on a Friday. Would you willingly work Saturdays and Sundays for months on end to fix every little problem
Dont get me wrong, I think its a shame that shop owners lost business due to a bug, but if your lively hood depends on in-game sales, maybe you shouldnt have put so much into something as fragile as SL.
From the sound of some of the comments ive read lately, it seems like a large portion of people see playing SL as a chore, like its something they have to do and cant enjoy. Stop being so serious about this people, its not worth it. You cant force LL to do anything they dont want to do.
So, in closing, SL is a symbiotic relationship, we needs LL to run the grid, and they need us to keep out of the red.
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:53 AM
I’m looking for the fix that prevents off-topic posts!
May 22nd, 2007 at 9:56 AM
Well this is great
Planned 2 weeks ago a course for this time
When i went offline this afternoon there was no sign of this
also not here.
No message at all
It took alot of time and affort to plan this
To build the teachingspace
And now this
Ofcourse they have to fix things i know
But they are always fixing lately and to me its like its getting worse not better
Now my sim is down dont know for how long i just logged on. Thanks Linden for informing me (next time i have to pay you i will inform you that you get your dollars a little later) and thanks for the great fix (btw can anybody tell me what they fixed the last time because here its not getting any better)
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:00 AM
i deleted as an accident my house and after that half part of my fourniture missed; i just want to know if my things will return to my inventory. thanks anyway, i love the sl
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:01 AM
@7 This is caused by hitting your insert key press your insert key on your keyboard again problem fixed. Many people complain about LL adding new features like this atmospheric rendering thing, The cold hard facts here are that while you whine and say all their developers should be focused on bugs 70% are. Some of the coders if sat down in front of the server code would have no idea what they are doing. So you say why dont they just hire more? Thats just what they are doing. They are opening up more offices around the U.S and plan to expand more and more and more as they can.
Many people are over critical of LL. This is a thing that happens with ALL software. Bugs pop up there is no bug free software in existance and short of every single person in the world having the same connection speed to LL the same hardware and software setups as well there never ever will be because they need to develop around so many different variations that its crazy. Also keep in mind they arnt just developing for Windows But Linux and OSX as well which most companies that put something out there dont and wont do (lotta companies wont touch linux cuz they dont think it profitable but thats foolish of them)
Before you complain keep this in Mind SL isnt WoW or any other MMO it doesnt function near the same and they dont have close to a decade of operating the same way to look to for how to do this. They dont have anything to look to for how they are supposed to fix something. Software you can fix problem A and create problems B and C but you dont know whats going to happen until you do it. Its impossible to constantly know if its going to break something or not. Most of these things they wont know till it hits the main grid and is effected by all the variations on the grid itself as well as being effected by YOU the users end of both software and hardware variations and your internet. Also keep in mind LL are developing around an immense number of scripting and texture variations in every sim diff geometry.
While you complain on here there are routes to properly let them know which bugs are out there and the like. Keep in mind also you need a reproducible bug meaning one that will effect everyone there may be bugs that only effect you or a small sub sect of people. I dont notice 90% of the problems other people do and I know lots of other people that dont have issues as well. Alot of issues can be raised due to client side issues stuff on your own end. But you still complain to LL about it and unless they can reproduce said bug on their end. And then if they can and do fix it that bug may create issues for other people its a given in the software world and even more so with worlds that are constantly up and alive for the most part. With ever growing computer and software variations and people messing more and more with scripts to do things bugs are bound to pop up help find them report them properly and stop complaining about them if they dont get fixed right away.
Also yes new features are needed. They arnt putting all the linden’s to work on new features… These projects are put out there by like 2-3 linden’s The Atmospheric Rendering is made by a completely diff company that LL bought and is being integrated thing and TESTED on the main grid using first look. If you dont test on first look and it comes out and there is a problem for you you have no room at all to complain because you didnt test out and help try to solve bugs before its release. I know this sounds overly critical of the users in this case but Im honestly sick and tired of people always whining to the company that all they should fix is bugs. Its done in EVERY single game i’ve been in even when they are relatively bug free. Someone always needs to find something to complain about and they will complain and voice it
Yes new features may break some things but they wont know till they hit the main grid (when used on the beta grid) and without alot of feedback from the users on what the bugs in what they allow us to test are both on the main grid and the beta grid alike. Yes i’ve gotten mad at LL but i dont come on here and run around screaming that they should fix all problems because i know how software is especially with online worlds and pc games as i have a heavy back history in both area’s.
I like the residents and I like LL. So I ask you why cant we all just get along? Im a paying customer to I put out 95 USD a month to LL plus some side money to invest in other things i have to function in the Metaverse which add up to over 100 a month easily. I’ve seen them fixing alot recently but for some people that will never be good enough sadlly.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:07 AM
Any idea when the fix for the texture finder in edit mode will be?
Just want to make sure you are aware of this bug. It’s pretty important.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:11 AM
@29 Make sure you use Jira and report the bug if its not already up there and if it is vote on it.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:13 AM
@28 Well said… totally agree, saves me from typing it out
Well done Lindens, i’m very impressed on how far Linden Labs has come as a company to address customer issues. Keep up the excellent work!
Perhaps in celebration sometime we could throw Governor Linden a parade… i dont think he gets out much
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:14 AM
@28
Well said……couldn’t agree more. Look back a few months….there were problems that we don’t see any longer….
Yes, we need fixes to long-standing problems…..but things are reasonably stable and LL are hiring like mad and opening new locations and keeping us better informed. Also…there is the new Help System coming……so lets give them a chance….. Oh! and in case you wondered…I did sign the Open Letter and I do agree with it….but I honestly believe the message was received and LL are trying to address the problems.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:15 AM
@ buckaroo
If people whining bothers you; LEAVE! For some that have problems (maybe you are lucky NOT to have), this is the only place LL seems to listen. So again; if you dont like what you see here, DO NOT return.
This way we won’t have to listen to you whine about people with problems running Second Life. Ignorance is bliss
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:22 AM
@anonymous
You sure are chicken to give your real second life name lol , get off the board and stop violating TOS lol
@ linden lab! Thank you for the quick updates and solutions
keep up the great work 
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:27 AM
@33 Them whining about off topic issues is the problem they bring up bugs in a place that they shouldnt be. And LL do listen in the other places if you actually report the bugs and use the proper routes and have one that can be reproduced. Simply running on here and screaming that a prim is rotating by itself when your the only one that can see it and providing no details on how this happened etc doesnt help anyone including LL. They listen in other ventures its just most people opt not to use them and just run on here and complain. Bug fixes take time its a given and they need to sort out the code and figure out what is where and if they can directly fix something without first fixing something else.
for the rest see my above statement in post 28!
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:37 AM
Wake UP wrote: “Any idea when the fix for the texture finder in edit mode will be?
Just want to make sure you are aware of this bug. It’s pretty important.”
You mean the one where it doesn’t show folders or textures when you try to add one (unless you type in at least one letter)?
It is annoying but I found the simplest work-around for now was to drop a texture into the top inventory level. As long as at least one texture is there the folders all appear as normal when you go to add a texture.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:38 AM
Oh my god lets hope SL will post messages like soon this about the common errors too! Its good they are fixing some now, i hope the new features wont be added untill SL at least runs quite well for some 80% of the people. Dont get me wrong, I really love the new features.. but at the moment though, SL, for most people, isnt yet stable enough to even run well without them!
I introduced a few friends to SL the last month, who had just average computers, though they loves to be online with me, they both quit because they were still hardly able to walk, crashed many many times and because they were hardly able to view my house or any other area. Its a big problem introducing people when after every 5 minutes they are away for 5 more restarting.
Though I am a lucky one with a new computer, please keep in mind that many people are not able to afford new up to date computers, for example students and people from less rich countries.
And that even with a new computer, Sl runs very troublesome still.
” Im a paying customer to I put out 95 USD a month to LL plus some side money to invest in other things i have to function in the Metaverse which add up to over 100 a month easily.”
@ Lina Pussycat: please keep in mind many many people cannot afford to pay over 100$ a month for a hobby.. brag about your own money doesnt makes it more friendly for people who dont have that amount of money in life.. not everyone is that rich
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:47 AM
I agree with Lina @ 28, the fat curser problem is not a SL client issue and occurs outside of SL in other apps also and is fixed exactly as she stated.
My wife and I also don’t experiance 90% of the problems that so many complain about and also run SL on 3 differant computers ranging from a off the shelf Emachine (2yr old with intragrated graphics) to a top of the line custom. The emachine lags more and has to have the graphics turned down but rarely crashs. It’s not unusual for both of us to go several weeks without crashing regardless of the computer we are using and when we do crash it is normally becasue the sim or the entire grid crashed.
We have found that if a issue is not affecting everyone grid wide or at least sim wide the problem lies within either our computer or our connection. Normaly it is fixed by a good cleaning and maintance of the computer such as a chkdisk,defrag,spyware scan and cleaning of temp files and cookies. Also shutting down background programs and auto updates/virus scans is a huge help when running SL.
If you have hardware that is stated as unsupported by SL well feel lucky you can run SL at all.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:54 AM
a few things I have noticed that have gotten better. I dont have to go to region anymore to see water, I cannot remember the last time I had to change my group tag to see people in a room I just rezzed in. My inventory seems safe. Did experiance the give inventory bug late last night but that was while transfering a free texture to a friend so no big deal. Could have been worse.
Would like to see spy gadgets and orbiters and other griefing scripts banned from game dont see any use for them other than to harass other people.
I have been harassed more the last month in this game than I ever have since last oct when I joined up.
I really like the one the person was running in the vechicle sandbox making everyones toys into yard art last weekend.
If that person could put that much energy into something constructive I am sure they could really go places.
I think things are getting better out here and it appears that they did listen to project open letter and are fixing things.
Keep up the good work.
May 22nd, 2007 at 10:59 AM
@37 i was pointing out that i am in fact a paying customer simply because the whiners complaining that they are customers showing that not everyone has the same thing going on even as such. I know others dont have that much money and thats not the point of that. Even if i put in none its not the point of it if you read the thing fully you’d gather that im sure. You dont need the best computer to Run SL you dont need a high end one and sometimes the newest technology isnt always the best thing.
New computer ? *shrugs* I run an AMD Semrpon 2400+ a GeForce 6800 GS and 2 gigs of ram Far from the best computer in the world and yet i dont see half the problems that people with higher end computers have.
Yes the point of my post was that not everyone has the same hardware and software configurations and LL cant develop around every single thing. Yes some people will be left out as SL grows and as such I do feel bad but alot of the time the hardware wasnt supported in the first place so it shouldnt surprise them that much. My point is I put money out there and I expect feed back from LL as such being a paying customer and I feel they deliver well on that and that most issues people face are caused by their own end.
My computer is dated by todays newest technology and yet You dont see me running around screaming the world is ending people with higher end systems though and the fancy Dual Core stuff having issues makes me laugh in all honesty. Maybe thats just a sign that the latest and greatest isnt always what its cracked up to be. Most of the newer tech out there processor wise is rubbish unless your using programs to utilize it in the first place. Also your software can be to blame.
The point of my post (your trying to make it look like its to rub people’s noses in what i spend a month) is that While im a paying customer i feel LL are doing a fine job and that there are way to many variables for anyone to complain. In most instances it is likely something on the clients end causing issues. Be it software that is acting up or whatever. Not all software plays nice with other software and that happens LL cant know that. People expect all variables to be accounted for and a perfect game but its not going to happen any time soon. All pc games have bugs thats what patches are for. Bugs take time to fix and find the code in the first place.
And not all the developers are going to go to bug fixing this is quite apparent. Sittings Qarl Linden for example in front of the server code if he only knows how to code the sculpties and the like wont help with fixing server code and in fact would make things worse because your putting people in that arnt sure what they are doing. The money thing was to say hey im a paying customer to but feel differently then the whiners it was far from a rub in anyones face thats just not my style to do that.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:04 AM
One other thing I forgot to mention and is very important is to do a clean install every time a new viewer is brought out (ie: uninstall the old one and download the new one from the site and install it). in my experiance if you dont do that some of the bugs that were present the old viewer seem to keep comming back. I can’t explain why but they do.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:05 AM
@39 while it would be nice to get rid of them somethings there is functionality that they would ultimately break in doing so. The scripts arnt meant to actually do what they do by default (well at least the function) the thing is doing that will likely break the useful functionality =/. And your not allowed to use anything like that outside of non combat areas thats one of those things you can report someone for (assault) and they do get banned for it =/. Sadly without verification of who they are they just come back and do it again and sadly that is a shame :(. I dont want LL to break the functionality that some of the stuff uses. Something similar to orbit is used for lifts etc and those breaking would suck (i sometimes use that to get to my house as it sits further then the teleporters let me go as far as without making a relay system out of like 2-3 teleporters…. So yeah =/ They are a hassle but they do have helpful base functions.
Its sad some people are just so childish they need use things that can be constructive maliciously =/.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:10 AM
@41 yes this quite often is the Case. And you are right a fresh install every single time is the best way to go. I go a step further and get rid of the file SL caches to and get rid of the registry it makes so its like it was never installed and then reinstall after doing that….. Its due to stacking files and code on top. They should overwrite but in some cases it doesnt properly happen and you end up with both new and old code acting together creating more bugs :(. Thats why a fresh install of SL is always a good idea!!! I was told to do this by a linden back close to when i first started and had issues after an update and it was the best advice i was given. I didnt have issues after doing that unless it was something everyone was experiencing.
Also yes to what someone else said…. Proper maintenance of your computer is important for keeping everything running smooth.
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:32 AM
Thank you
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:34 AM
An off-topic request.
Would people with many things to say just collate them together in a SINGLE post, instead of posting four, five times in the same blog entry?
I know that your opinion is the most important one, but since LL has put an hard cap on replies, maybe it’s less egocentric to let also OTHERS post here, and not monopolize the stage.
Thank you, and sorry for the off topic.
May 22nd, 2007 at 12:07 PM
@22
Pleez. It was hardly a disaster. It was an inconvenience.
Anything else I can educate you on, Keiko?
Azrael, allow me to educate you…
Yes, it was an inconvenience to us, the customers, but for a company whos core product is a large and complex software application, with millions of customers, a botched patch is a disaster. I work in the industry, and believe me, there is little you can do that is worse for the company than to inconvenience the customer, and then tell them to just deal with it. The customers pay your bills - pretty soon they get fed up with it and go elsewhere, and soon the company starts looking for ways to prevent the problem, such as proper release management and other controls, which should have been the standard to begin with. So, yes, from a software company perspective, it was a disaster, and I was asking what had been done to prevent similar disasters in the future.
@28
This is caused by hitting your insert key press your insert key on your keyboard
Lina, do you actually think people are that stupid? I also get this problem from time to time, and didnt realise that others were also experiencing it in SL. I just put it down to windows accessibility features taking over my keyboard as they do from time to time, but come to think of it, it only seems to occur in SL. I also occasionally get stick in select mode, highlighting text wherever I drag the mouse over a script window - even if Im not holding the button. I’ll do some more research, and then post what I learn on Jira.
@38
Kenny, if you dont experience 90% of the bugs, how can you say that they dont exist? People have different computers, different hardware, even different operating systems on which they run SL. What effects one, doesnt nescessarily effect all. If you can stay up and running for weeks on end, good luck to you. Many of us are not so lucky.
May 22nd, 2007 at 12:14 PM
To those moaning about the moaner
The bugs in questions are not mere niggles but are fairly serious and fundamental bugs in the land sales, or causing inventory loss which result in real people losing real money (sometimes hundreds or thousands of dollars), or losing the work of hours, days, months or even years of time and effort.
Now the Lindens may be working very hard behind the scenes on fixing these but this is not the impression they give, not least as some of these issues have existed to a very long time. However just look at recent blog entries:
The day after the blog about the Town Hall Meeting over the Open Letter asking LL to slow down (not completely stop) development of new features until some fundamental and serious problems have been addressed, LL release a number of blogs on some major new features (such as sculpties).
Last Friday, LL announce that a just completed rolling update had introduced a bug which impacted many venders (resulting in some businesses closing until it was fixed or doing some somewhat major firefighting - i.e. this was a significant bug). However, they also announce that they won’t look at the bug until after the weekend, despite the fact that the weekend is the busiest time in SL.
Then to add insult to injury, on Monday when busnisess are what the blog anxiously awaiting the announcement of the bug fix - what appears on the blog. Yes, an announcement of a new feature! LL couldn’t have timed that worse if they had tried.
LL could give a better impression that new bells and whistles are more important that fixing long standing, serious bugs if it tried!
May 22nd, 2007 at 12:58 PM
Can anyone confirm to me that this “fix” has broken items that sell their own contents ?
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:07 PM
I will agree with Sami, that release a update on a Friday just before the weekend, is silly and dangerous I hope they will look into that in the future. But in the defence of Lindens, about the fix, Im sure they started working on it first thing Monday morning and releasing new feature announcements did not affect the bug fix.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:27 PM
@49 This is the point here….. People act like all the linden’s are focused on adding new features. Its usually a very small group of lindens mabye 2-3 working on any given feature….. and this feature isnt even being handled by “lindens” in a sense its being handled by a company they acquired same with the voice (thats being done by vivox) there are some linden’s over looking it but other companies are doing that…… Sculpties are being handled by Qarl (and maybe cube) you dont have a bunch of lindens sitting there all doing features most of them are on bugs and the like.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:31 PM
@46 this is also the point to get a bug fixed that they havent found themselves you need to show a reproducible bug if its only you and like 10 other people experiencing it and LL cant reproduce it its likely something on your ends. And its also exactly the point i was making there are far to many variations out there between hardware and software for them to get all the bugs and they dont have every single enviroment and arnt going to pick up on every single bug. That is why properly reporting bug is important. People coming on the blog and complaining about them isnt helping anyone other then them seeing themselves type.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:39 PM
Yes its a crying shame that people can exploit useful tools and ruin other peoples experiance out here.
As for filing an abuse report yes that might eventually stop that one person later down the road but not when you are trying to fly and you keep getting bounced out of the sim or trying to rezz your aircract in the sand box area and suddenly you find your self surrounded by a ball of fire before you float up into space. Or its the weekend and you find yourself trapped in a cage until you log out or go home.
Or the joker who likes to fly up and sit on your aircraft and freeze it into place or has drones following you around in your face screaming and the text on the edit is blacked out so finding the owner and filing an abuse report is useless.so you have to end up shutting it down for the night because you have had enough.
So your choices are to be a prisoner in your own home physical limitations have me doing that in rl so sl is my escape but come on I dont bother anyone out here and dont expect others to bother me.
Or you have to go by all the items the next isle over from the griefer isle that the same person wrote to counter their griefer products.
How about a fix that will not allow these scripts to be ran outside a groups property or a combat sim?
I am sure that will make a lot of peoples SL experiance a lot more enjoyable.
May 22nd, 2007 at 1:49 PM
@ 13 Paulo Dielli - You can also go back to 1.15.0 that’ll fix it, or leave a texture at the root level in your inv, or hope that 1.16 will fix it.
@ 28 Lina Pussycat - “Software you can fix problem A and create problems B and C but you dont know whats going to happen until you do it. Its impossible to constantly know if its going to break something or not.”
Well, where I come from it’s called bad programming. You should know what your code is doing and whether if you change something it’s likely to bork something else up.
An awful lot of the borks are “glitches” or things LL “forgot” to include. That also is extremely sloppy programming, quality and version control.
“While you complain on here there are routes to properly let them know which bugs are out there and the like. ”
I wish there were lol. Part of the problem is there isn’t. They take no notice of bug reports from the client, the JIRA is not only still Beta, but won’t let you post for a month if you change your password. Just like entering the Beta Grid.
Surely they should be checking the birth date, not the date you last changed your password?
And First Look? LMAO, I tried that before, it crashed and crashed and ran at half the fps - unusable. Even though that’s now part of the main client, it still runs slower than before. And that is their attempt at a rewrite to get rid of old bugs : worse performance.
@ 15 Dallas Seaton - Well rolling out a fix for something they borked on a Friday afternoon rollout and that they shouldn’t have released in the first place is nothing to clap ‘em on the back for. There are still many fixes yet to implement for all the things they borked in 1.15.
@ 39 Brett Finsbury - I cannot remember the last time I had to change my group tag to see people in a room I just rezzed in. My inventory seems safe.
Well lucky old you. I still have to do the group tag shuffle, not as often, but it’s still there. Safe inventory? Obviously not, hence the rushing of 1.16 to fix one of those loss issues. And of course, 7 out of 10 of my attachments that worked fine before logging off for the 1.15 update were borked on login afterwards. Yes, still in inv, but all set to zero UUIDs so they won’t attach, function or rez. Another 3k of stuff I have to rebuy thanks to a Linden bork.
And a builder friend had the same thing happen to every object he created in the two hours before the update shutdown. Looks like Linden “forgot” to back something up there on their assest servers before applying the “fixes” and new scripts to… avoid inv loss :-O
Now I lose money more often with the Loading “feature” than I did before, and often I still don’t get Loading, just blank.
May 22nd, 2007 at 2:16 PM
@53 no thats called variable they know how it operates on their system and the beta grid well enough but once this stuff hits the main grid with alot more variables in the picture and alot more concurrent users there are going to be unforeseen problems. They could run load tests but that is just straining the hardware and doesnt give an accurate depiction of all the software and hardware variations that exist out there. There are always things that happen that are unseen.
While they fix a bug and test it on the beta grid and its fine and everything is working great once its loaded to the main grid that can change. Thats where an online world differentiates from a static piece of software. An online world is a living breathing world that is on constantly that requires mass hardware to run databases etc. SL is even more a living breathing world where these variables that exists can constantly change depending on what the residents are building or making and LL cant foresee everything that is going to happen thats just improbable.
Why do you think photoshop is up at cs3 now why do you think Paintshop pro is up at 11 now why do you think all software goes through patches? Because they have bugs and more bugs were made over the course of them fixing bugs. There is no such thing as bug free software and if your stating there is your full of it. Bugs happen in all programs so acting like some company can fix them all and in one go is a bit redundant.
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:15 PM
I agree with all users, that updates are problematic, and also some who are complaining about fixes too. It sucks but that’s life on the ‘net in general when we have MP RPG’s and such like. Lots of servers, lots of connections and lots of users using software, sometimes in ways not envisioned by the programmers. This requires a plethora of niggling little fixes, all of which cannot be rolled out at once.
There are deeper issues in SL that need to be addressed too to make our experience more worthwhile. Yes, even more important than sculpties lol. VERIFICATION of accounts to thwart griefers and AGE CHECKING, for starters. I wont beat a dead horse by repeating all of the posts here, many good points.
And yeah it would be nice to have muting in group im’s
Thanks for the effort LL
May 22nd, 2007 at 3:16 PM
@39
“Would like to see spy gadgets and orbiters and other griefing scripts banned from game dont see any use for them other than to harass other people.”
All of the LSL commands that make those things possible also make possible many things that people use for good purpose every day in SL. There’s no good way to take out the bad without losing the good.
May 22nd, 2007 at 4:21 PM
While I admit to being one of Linden Lab’s most vociferous critics where social issues are concerned, I’ve always been a supporter, at least on most issues, when it comes to the technical side of this operation. I didn’t experience the llgiveinventorylist bug, but I didn’t buy anything negatively impacted by it during the time it was in effect. Linden Lab didn’t actually get to work on this problem until Monday, leaving a lot of residents wondering what happened, but, honestly, if you don’t read the blog you are consenting to remain ignorant, and that says more about you than it does about Linden Lab. Even though I hope they learned their lesson and start rolling out upgrades on Monday, instead of Friday, I was impressed with how quickly they addressed this issue. Thank you Linden Lab … for a change.
The issue of working on new features while things remain broken is one on which my perspective isn’t quite so black and white as it appears to be for most of the people who post on the blog. I’m not against new features. What I’m against is introducing new features when things are still broken. There’s no conflict there, even though I’m sure some of you were ready to jump all over that statement. Linden Lab needs to continue to work on … and test … new features. The beta grid is, in part, just for that purpose. What we do *not* need, though, are for those features to be implemented on the main grid while there are still issues plaguing much of the population. Get the main problems solved first — then introduce new features *one at a time*, thoroughly testing each under the stress of the main grid before adding the next one. Development of new features and deployment of bug fixes can go on in parallel, but implementation of both at the same idea is simply not a Good Thing.
I’ve pointed out, before, that not each coder is able, or willing (more on that in a moment) to work on every bug that is reported. It seems that a lot of people don’t understand this. Nor is every Linden a coder for the Second Life servers or client. Some of them are web programmers. Some of them probably don’t know anything about programming at all. Linden Lab is a company with diverse needs from it’s employees and like any such company there is a need for specialization within the ranks or they would get nothing at all done. One of the problems, though, is the way programming projects are assigned to those people who *are* coders. They aren’t. Assigned, that is. Linden Lab’s policy is to let their employees do what they choose to do, and therein could well rest one of the issues we have seen — bugs that sit on the table, untouched, while other things don’t need to get done right away are the projects people are completing. While I’d love to work in an environment like that, were I the person in charge I can guarantee you that someone would in charge of setting priorities, and that lesser projects don’t get touched until the really important issues have been addressed.
And, finally, I SO agree with Katrina (poster 45). It’s rare that an issue that interests me enough to post is open long enough, anymore, for me to actually get a post in, and much of the reason is for multiple posting by people in a relatively short period of time, the constant griping about things that are off-topic to the post, and fluff comments of a few words that don’t contribute to the content of the thread. Some of us have to work for a living and can’t hang around the computer at home all day to hog the blog.
May 22nd, 2007 at 6:33 PM
hmmm having different systems does not seem to be the issue when a bug is reported by many many people. There are a lot of errors which are reported by so many people, that it would be a good thing if it was addressed. Some errors are really common and reported by many, yet not looked into (or not reported to be looked into, im not sure).
I have a shop in SL, and several times a day I get people in my IM who complain that after buying an item, they did not receive any. People are very upset about this, especially those who camped for ages to get an item they really want.
This error is reported by many many shopowners, as can be read in their profiles and less and less shop owners are supporting people who suffered from this error. Simply because its not their fault and it costs them a lot of time to find out if people really bought the item, reassure them that its an SL error, send them back the item etc. I spend some 20 minutes a day only on this error.
I guess on an average base, considered that only a part of the shops visitors can contact me, since im not the creator of all my sold items, and considered that many newbies do not know how to send a message to the creator of an item, just in my shop some 5-10 people a day pay for items they never receive.
This error has been there for a few months, before the error didnt exist.
Errors like these are a big problem in SL, no matter if some people do not have them. Thats no reason to say “Hey dont complain about it because I dont have the error”. There are many who DO have these errors and its a big problem for them.
I think its a good thing that secondlife takes a look into them, but I wonder.. when an update gives a big, big error, wouldnt it be possible to just turn it back and relook at everything that was changed before releasing it again? Its the way I’ve learned to program, always fix the old errors before you go on.. because bugs are much harder to fix later on.
I hope SL will continue to keep fixing the errors, anyway thats my two cents about this
May 22nd, 2007 at 7:24 PM
@56 hmm looking back over what I posted I never said bugs didn’t exist I just stated I didnt experiance 90% of them and that many of the problems I have had were often in my computer and not SL. I have 3 differant systems myself and realize there are many differant combinations of hardware and software. It don’t take a expensive super computer to run SL all it takes is one with supported hardware and that is properly maintained on a regular basis. Systems that will run SL reasonably well and without crashing all the time can be had new for under 400$ New tech hardware and the latest and most expensive OS is not always better.
What I take execption to is when many who post here on the blog say everyone is haveing the same problems with running and the bugs in SL. Yes I agree that the large percent of those here on this blog are having problems a much larger percentage of people are happly enjoying SL without those problems they just dont feel the need to post. I read this blog daily but post seldom and and from what I have seen there are in the area of 200 or less regular posters who are not happy with anything and jump all over anyone that suggests that possibly part of the problem is in their system and not compleatly LL’s fault. And God Forbid that anyone offers a suggestion as to what has worked for them and might help others. Thats a very small percentage of people who play SL.
I am a premium member and a business owner and yes bugs affect me at times just like everyone but don’t lump me into a group by saying everyone is having problems because many are not they are just to busy enjoying SL to post here.
May 22nd, 2007 at 8:45 PM
Nice update but was it supposed to delete half the items on my SIM?
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:42 PM
@9 - the text cursor goes fat and starts erasing? lol, you pressed the INSERT key. Press it again…
I wish the comments wouldn’t cap at 100, I’m always too late.
Just for the record, not everyone supported project open letter - YAY for the new features!
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:48 PM
Look like some peoples are paid to leave comment? How can you side with SL on puting on new festures and not fixing 2 years old bugs? SL progress because of contents put on by its residents (not new feature), but it is pretty hard to put new content when the viewer is barely usable. The open letter project was not proof enough for LL that resident are fed up with the totaly useless new features and want a STABLE CLIENT. if SL as trouble handle a cube how do you expect it to handle a sculpty?
Gawd, you lot aren’t happy no matter what they do.
Yes, Linden Lab is paying us, $100k a year each to post propoganda (you are dumb enough to say that, you are dunb enough to believe it). Seeing the jink is up, we might as well spill the beans, if you look at the grid you will notice Linden World A,B,C,D We are setting this minigrid up to only run the original V1.0 client for those that whine about “feature creep” and how previous versions were best to enter & remain forever untouched. Water will work, Primitars won’t have attachment problems teleporting problems all solved by doing away with teleports seeing there are only 4 sims you can walk.
All items made after 2004 will cease to exist from your invetories too, giving you less stuff to worry about losing.
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:10 AM
Invested a few dollars into my older system not much change. upgraded to cable internet from DSL and bam instant change. Everything started to work better and almost all the problems I was having in the past stopped.
It was like a new SL.
I think people will have to face the fact that to play this game you will have to invest in a better system and faster internet service.
Goes to show you cant race in NASCAR in a volkswagon bug and expect great performance.
May 23rd, 2007 at 8:14 AM
how about some release notes LL on the new update as promised today
May 23rd, 2007 at 9:54 AM
So is it a working? OOO and any news on when the First Look viewer be up?
May 23rd, 2007 at 11:01 AM
Where are the release notes for the new version? When will the new version be available for download? I will congratulate you on a seemingly clean and prompt shutdown of the grid at 6am.
May 23rd, 2007 at 11:50 AM
Because the comments on the update blog are off: [11:36am SLTime] We are now expecting the update to run long. No ETA as to when it will be finished at this point, but we will continue to provide updates here on the blog. Thank you for your continued patience!
This is what you do everytime. when its almost time to login you say . ohw it takes longer , we do not know how long .. come on. again a CET Timezone Evening without SL is a fact, like all updates. Its not a complaint but be honest you knew that in the previouse “blog update post” next time dont give a time just say SL is down from 6 am till the next day. that more safe then this ..
May 23rd, 2007 at 11:53 AM
dear webmaster,
*** connect this tool here to the forum !!! ***
do it today, until you go to bed , else you forget it until tomorow, or pay me 500 L to do it for you. dont wait for vista, it wil not be a feature in it
May 25th, 2007 at 6:52 AM
It’s Friday early morning and llGiveInventory - is not working…Please do something.
We are looking forward for you to fix it.
Thanks
May 29th, 2007 at 9:47 AM
Happy Memorial Day, I spent all weekend ruthed so I made my juggs real big, had a friend give me a g-string and walked around half naked. WTF LL, i just signed in and I’m still ruthed!
cleared cache and re-log - NO DICE
fresh install - NO DICE
Second Life is doomed - GOOD BET
May 31st, 2007 at 5:05 PM
hola quiero ser parte de second life
June 13th, 2007 at 12:19 PM
HMM am I the only one who cant seem to get the new update to install… Sorry for posting here.. Was the only opening…