[TRANSCRIPT] Cory Linden Town Hall
Thursday, May 3rd, 2007 at 1:14 PM by: Torley LindenThanks to all who attended our Technical Town Hall with Cory Linden, whether you were onsite inworld or listening to the Linden Town Hall Closed Captioning group IM (apologies for the group IM borkage, we’re working on fixing this too, see Issue Tracker bugs like VWR-513).
Also, Cory previously shared details of our progress, and you can view fixed bugs reported on the Issue Tracker, sorted by votes.
In case you missed it or would like to catch up, read on for the transcript, thanks to Socrates Linden for this cleaned-up version:
Jeska Linden: Today’s Town Hall is Text Only -
Jeska Linden: All questions should be submitted via the Linden Town Hall Questions group - the group has open enrollment, simply join and paste your question into the Group IM. Questions will be answered in the order they appear, duplicate questions and any technical support or individual support questions will be skipped.
Jeska Linden: If you’d like to follow along with the Town Hall, please join the Linden Town Hall Closed Captioning Group, where we will be repeating the discussion.
Jeska Linden: We will be posting a full transcript to the blog after the event, you may also want to read Cory’s Pre Town Hall blog post here: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/02/cory-linden-town-hall/
Jeska Linden: Also, please hold offers of friendship and IMs to Cory until after the event, as it can be disctracting!
Jeska Linden: Ok, Cory, take it away.
Cory Linden: Good afternoon, everybody… amazing to see so many avatars in one place
Cory Linden: And I think since I put up the blog post we should go straight into questions
Cory Linden: I know you will have a lot of them, so we’ll go through as many as we can
Faith Matova: somebody do me a favor and ask them at least why they’ve waited almost 2 years to upgrade to MySQL5?
Cory Linden: Because until very recently the performance limitations of MySQL 4.*’s multithreading
Cory Linden: hasn’t been the high nail on performance
Cory Linden: plus we wanted to make sure it was very stable before we switched
Cory Linden: the process of upgrading is now ongoing, but will take time with 50+ MySQL instances running
Jeska Linden: Daaneth Kivioq: I wanted to konw - since it is clear that permromance issues are closely related to concurrent log ins, why throttling is not beeing used more agressively - i.e. - starting booting non-verifieds when the load gets high?
Cory Linden: We’re trying to be careful about not using it too aggressively and building metrics to better know when to use it. The building of the metrics is ongoing.
Wrestling Hulka: One of the problems I have with the client is the integration of the Mozilla framework for the browsers. From my estimate the inclusion of Mozilla has increased the size of the client download by at least 10MB and increased the memory leak. As of the current client there aren’t many instances where the internal browser is used, instead we are prompted to use an external browser. When can we expect all the external links be sent to the internal browser to justify the great size of the client, and memory leakage? I’m speaking specifically about the My Account History, Manage My Account, Scripting Guide, Scripting Portal, Official Linden Blog found on the Client menu. And if there are no plans to use the internal browser more efficiently, then what is the justification for having it?
Cory Linden: woah
Cory Linden: As we have talked about in thepast, the integration of firefox has taken *way* longer than any of us expected
Cory Linden: we aren’t the only folks who have found this difficult and the good thing about firefox 2.0 is that they are working on making that process easier
Cory Linden: we have an external team working on it as well, so our goal is to be doing a more significant release soon. However…
Cory Linden: as I pointed out in the blog post, most of our development resources are focused on existing bugs and scaling, so firefox has been a bit starved for resources
Kage Seraph: Cory, if you were a super hero, which would you want more, the mutant ability to scale things at will or the ability to make them more stable by the power of your mind?
Cory Linden: scaling versus stability isn’t really a choice… I would want to do both
Rob Adelaide: What impact will the impending voice system have on the main grid as we know it now?
Cory Linden: Since voice is using external servers for mixing and sends a very small stream to each client, the impact of on teh grid
Cory Linden: as a whole will be minimal from a scaling standpoint. From a use/business/community standpoint, the impact will be incredible…
Cory Linden: we’ve been doing all our linden meetings in the voice client for a month+ and it is amazing how well it works…
Cory Linden: in fact it has had a measurable impact on development, too, since multiple groups are doing their morning standup mtgs in the voice client as well.
Sweet Valentine: Can we please have a way to back up our own inventorys things we buildto help with inventory load and losses? im not asking for backing up copy items just teh items we make ourselves and also what is being done about inventory losses there was a patch posted that they said was fixing this but people are still losing items daily ?
Cory Linden: Agree that backing up items you have full perms on is a good idea. We really feel it is important to build that system in a way…
Cory Linden: that scales and is robust enough to use more broadly. SL has suffered from rapidly deployed systems that we then have
Cory Linden: to rely on for years and years –XML-RPC for example — so this isn’t a quick fix. Would like to work on it in Q3, however.
Katie Welles: As you’re working to fix “Search” — can you do something about “abuse of key words?”
Cory Linden: We are starting on a major reworking of search in SL. We’ve talked in the past about how search in sl is a different problem than on the web…
Cory Linden: but we think we have a good approach that will be more resilient to simple spam-based attacks. More details as the design is refined.
Digital Digital: I would like to know whyat are we supposed to do when we lose such an expensive item in second life for example I bought a slingo machine for 16KL and it’s gone, I have tried everything also reported it many times and never get a responce back in e-mail or anything.
Cory Linden: As is spelled out in the terms of service, you do create content at your own risk in SL. We are making every effort to reduce that loss and I am sorry that it has occurred…
Cory Linden: and numerous recent releases are directly addressing underlying stresses and scaling issues in inventory and assets.
Kylix Petit: Where does stability and performance fall in the priorites for LL development…. There is a problem literally every other day and it seems like there is VERY much room for improvement in this regard.
Cory Linden: As I spoke about in the blog post, 69% of the development staff at LL are currently on scaling and stability…
Cory Linden: and that percentage is rising over the next few weeks. It is the highest priority and the focus of the majority of our design, coding, and QA work.
Cory Linden: We are also working on the next gen architecture to allow far more scaling thean the current design.
Vienna James: I am concerned about releases that have blatant issues, why are they being missed in Beta?
Cory Linden: Many problems only appear when we hit high load. Part of the solution to this is better synthetic testing, but the beta grid exists for people to expose problems…
Cory Linden: You can all help by exploring the beta grid and posting bugs and repro cases to the public jira.
Lewis Nerd: When can we expect to see “Traffic” removed? It serves no purpose, is entirely inaccurate and gamed, and most likely adds to many other problems we have
Cory Linden: Removing the current traffic metric is part of the new search project, so the goal is to pull it as soon as possible.
Spank Lovell: I’d like to ask what Quality control measures LL has in place to police the testing and release of both client updates and patches the the SL client and backend systems. It seems to me that each release introduces issues or breaks previously stable features?
Cory Linden: As I mentioned, the challenge with a system as complex as SL is testing w/o full load. As we continue to builkd out the dev team…
Cory Linden: We will be working on better synthetic tests and benchmarks. In addition, nearly all new/refactored code is being …
Cory Linden: written with unit tests, whcih help. But the best way for you all to help make SL better is to use the beta grid and report repro cases when you find them.
Cedric Boyd: Since i’m not getting any answer from the support concerning this question: when will the map be updated again? The last map from the sim i live on was up2date about four weeks ago. Live Help didn’t answer to my question and the support still not too ;).
Cory Linden: We know about the bug and it is actively being worked on. We will try to provide more details after the meeting.
Sascha Vandyke: Can’t the patches be tested on a beta grid, because they always render the whole sim unstable?
Cory Linden: Patches are tested on the beta grid, but often times bugs do not appear until full load testing.
Duckling Kwak: Is the explosive land expansion a factor impacting grid performance? If yes, has LL evaluated other alternatives to managing the rising cost of land? The increased land has had a modest impact on land prices. If it’s costing SL more in performance, it’s not a worthwhile tradeoff.
Cory Linden: Not really. There are a couple of load points related to sim count, but one of them was removed last week and the other is being designed away.
Nite Zelmanov: Does the new search functionality being worked on include the discontinuation of traffic based rankings to illiminate the camping/bot impact of people gaming that system?
Cory Linden: Traffic was our first attempt to create relevance ranking and it clearly is imperfect at the best of times….
Cory Linden: we’re pretty confident that we can generate better relevance ranking using other approaches.
Cory Linden: we’re pretty confident that we can generate better relevance ranking using other approaches.
Rita Cummings: Is there any project about improving Sound in Sl? Your sound component seems to capable of much more then what the current functions allow as to do. Will you expose more functionality in the near future?
Cory Linden: Voice is going to generate a lot of new music and audio options.
Cory Linden: and our effort is there more than other audio features.
Cory Linden: but sound bugs are going into public jira nad the studio focusedon bugs will look at them.
Chaos Mohr: What is being done to address land database issues which result in things such as parcels being paid for and not transferring, parcels being sold to multiple people etc? This seems to be a major technical issue which keeps cropping up and hasn’t been fixed yet.
Cory Linden: These are likely symtpoms of the broader stresses on the central db and transactions..
Cory Linden: as I mentioned int he blog post, we are attacking these problems in two ways, to first identity weak spots in the current system and to build a better transaction system as well.
Robaato Yoshikawa: do MySQL instances are load balanced, or the architecture is based on only assigning different server to residents, if the answer is no, have LL looked at tools like Sequoia: http://sequoia.continuent.org/HomePage
Cory Linden: Right now the different residents go to different servers. Ops will get the sequoia pointer, but more broadly we want to go a more scalable architecture long term. More details on that very soon.
Magi Merlin: What focus are you putting into improving pre-release testing in order to reduce our pain?
Cory Linden: We’ve hit this one a few times. It is the majority of our design work, we post all potential code to Beta grid, and we hope that more of you hit the beta grid to test it.
Sharrah Brendel: What about the loss of live help..it has been inpossible to contact a live person in SL for over two weeks. I have left 5 tickets and never heard a word…Where have all the Lindens gone?
Cory Linden: There’s an extensive blog post about that, will post into chat in a moment.
Torley Linden: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/04/26/introducing-liaison-specialist-teams/
Torley Linden: http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/04/25/support-update/
Torley Linden: ^ See those blog posts for more details.
Keiki Lemieux: I often have upset customers who have lost animations or other no copy items when trying to transfer them from their inventory to a HUD. Other customers have lost their HUD altoghether. Since yesterday’s update, I’ve had 3 customers contact me with inventory loss issues. Two questions, 1) Is there a particular resource that I can point someone to who is experiencing inventory loss issues, like a page in the wiki? and 2) If you are noticing inventory loss after users attempt to move items in a particular way, can you provide a list of suggestions that I can pass on to my customers to avoid inventory loss?
Cory Linden: There are inventory related bugs on the public jira, also we have been putting a lot of code into QA to address some of thos eproblems. For more details, see blog post on transactions.
tx Oh: q1) i still can’t modify scripts in group deeded object but i alowed to edit them. q2) if i change objects inventory, it takes a lot of time to get it updated. q3) the read from notecards is very slow. WHY?
Torley Linden: Public JIRA Issue Tracker - http://jira.secondlife.com
Cory Linden: On specific bugs, please make they are in the public jira issue tracker, please add specific repro cases if you have them, and the studio focused on current bugs will be able to hit them.
Nel Shan: How do the Lindens feel about the Open Letter Project, and what it implies about the state of Linden/resident communications?
Cory Linden: I can’t speak for all Lindens, but as I mentioned in the blog post, I thought that it did a good job of coalescing issues into one thread.
Synack Fitzgerald: has LL considered migrating to a database that scales better that mysql and pays more attention to data integrity (postgresql is free, but oracle or db2 would be viable options as well)?
Cory Linden: We don’t want to work on a model where we attempt to scale a central db. Instead, the effort is to build out a more scalable architecture.
Cory Linden: And MySQL master->slave->slave setusp we use are quite reliable.
Kymber Schnook: The blog indicates that LL will provide an exporter for Maya for the creation of sculpted prims. The range of pricing for different versions of Maya runs from $2,000 to $7,000 USD. Will you make available a more affordable means of export at the time of introduction of the sculpted prim?
Cory Linden: I agree that only being able to export from Maya is suboptimal. We expect other exporters to be written and someone could take the open source client and build an editor there as well.
Cay Trudeau: Do you think arranging physichal server on other continents, like Europe for instance, would ease up on the server load, ease the connections and allow better performance for European residents? Would that also lift the load from sending texture data across the wire?
Cory Linden: We absolutely want to deploy servers overseas. We have an architectural quirk in how we talk to the dbs — a layer of single threaded dataservers –
Cory Linden: that would suffer in situations with greater ping latency, so we need to fix that problem first, whcih is being worked on.
Cory Linden: once that is fixed, we will begin international deployments. This is critical since over 65% of our use is from outside the US.
Daisy Beauchamp: regarding 1.15 and graphic cards in laptops not working: 1. Why is it inconsistent? Why can I login and stay logged in for hours after 5-10 attempts? 2. Will SL ever support other graphic cards, or should I consider selling my Island and counting my losses? 3. Is it possible to use an older version of SL if you have issues?
Cory Linden: Laptop drivers are still an issue for all highperformance 3D applications. Over time, they are improving, but not as quickly as any of us would like.
Cory Linden: We are discussing how to drive the client onto both higher and lower end cards, but right now more development is on system wide scaling.
Doc Nielsen: What we are asking for is that these problems are addressed immediately, ahead of new features, and that we are able to see tangible improvements. Are you going to do this - yes or no?
Cory Linden: As I previously mentioned — and was in the blog post — 69% of development is currently on bugs and scaling. That number will increase this month as we continue to hire.
Cory Linden: Also, this is a good time to remind folks, we are hiring developers aggressively, including offices in Seattle, Boston, and all over the Bay Area.
Cory Linden: Plus, we will always look at smart folks anywhere in the world since SL is working quite well for distributed software development. Oh, Brighton, too!
Sam Stork: Will there ever be a good IDE? Two seperate clients for example, which would make things a lot easier for everyone?
Cory Linden: We are starting the design process for making the UI even more end-user customizable. Plus it is open source, so I think the answer is yes, but scaling/stability is more important right now.
Thorian Pennell: I would like to know if it’ll be possible for group owners to limit chat ability of members?
Cory Linden: Voice chat within groups is on the roadmap, so yes.
Sascha Vandyke: If there’s a database issue and deployment problem, why don’t you put a time limit on free accounts?
Cory Linden: We actually had time limits long, long, long, LONG ago. The problem is that people take a while to learn to use SL, plus great events or builds often bring folks back in weeks/months/years down the road.
Cory Linden: It would be bad for all of our businesses to lose that ability for casual users to come back in. Plus, as we have discussed, free accounts are less of the load than you might expect.
Alexandra Rucker: When will groups truly be fixed? I had to relog 3 times to see the town hall QUESTIONS group, and people still can’t see what’s being pasted to the captions group?
Cory Linden: That is a known bug in the public jira that is being worked on.
Torley Linden: Groups IMs Not Working Properly on the Issue Tracker - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-513
Arguss Sleeper: Is it possible to have a “real time” sim status map so that when there is a rolling restart or issuses concerning the ability t0 use the full grid a person would know in advance where not to tp to?
Cory Linden: We currently have an internal tool that does that. We eventually want to be expose portions of that functionality via webservices.
PetGirl Bergman: when wil large groups be able to send outnotices again - mine are over 1000 and have stopped working?
Torley Linden: For many of these bugs, you can look them up on the Issue Tracker (Public JIRA) - Group Notices failing - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-37
Katrina Bekkers: since the Open Letter indeed HAD a follow-up from LL, is this *the* way to contact them from now on? since the undercutting of other venues to contact them (and no, a comments-disabled blog and an unresponsive support/tracker don’t count), you’re endorsing resorting to 2000+ residents signed petitions to make issues heard now?
Cory Linden: What Torley said…
Cory Linden: In this case, since scaling and stability are the primary internal focus right now this was an excelletn opportunity for a conversation.
Cory Linden: As the commuynity team has been bloggin about, there are various methods for contacting us and talking to Lindens, including office hours, etc.
tx Oh: over 90% open bug reports are unassigned. why?
Cory Linden: Torley is on this, so we are trying to provide better feedback on when bugs are being worked on. Not all will show the specific Linden who is on it, but we will indicate thos we are on.
Nel Shan: One of the major issues that comes up with inventory loss is the fact that there is no way to verify the loss. This leads to the impression that the Lindens believe that anyone complaining about inventory loss is trying to scam Linden Labs. As well as trying to reduce inventory loss, will there be a way of verifying it introduced?
Torley Linden: Re: bug status, you can read the Issue Tracker instructions - https://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Issue_tracker
Torley Linden: See the procedure and the bottom section about “WorkingOnIt Linden”
Cory Linden: That’s a very good idea and I will pass it along to the people focused on the issues.
BlckCobra Shikami: Are our bug reports and crash dumps taken serious and analysed or do you just wait 2 month and send an eMail (like today) asking wether the bug still matter? Does it make sense for us to send bug reports and crash dumps or do we betetr save our time on that?
Cory Linden: Please start focusing that energy on the public jira. That is the best vector for demonstrating repeatable bugs and getting the data to the people working on the problems.
tha Poindexter: Have you considered holding events in the beta grid for better testing? For instance, would it help if these Town Hall meetings were held on that grid?
Jeska Linden: (that’s from Samantha Poindexter - sorry!)
Cory Linden: We have in the past and will continue to do so in the future. Town halls there is a good suggestion.
ascha Vandyke: After the update my island is unstable and support can’t find the issue. Will there be better debug tools coming to fix it?
Cory Linden: In the long run, we want to expose as many of the management and support tools we have for land to the residents so that you can provide better data back to us…
Cory Linden: but that is going to take time.
GreeterDan Godel: people are here expecting answers to their big questions. But it is clear that a lot of people’s big concerns don’t have immediate answers. Should people accept SL as it is and hope for slow change? Or is there reason to expect fundamental changes to the biggest problems any time soon?
Cory Linden: The answer, of course, lies somewhere in between. We are working to fix bugs and enable incremental improvement. At the same time, we are…
Cory Linden: building the foundations for the next gen architecture that will radically improve our ability to scale.
Cory Linden: We also expect that some changes that might seem incremental, such as voice, will actually be transformative in terms of the avaialble design space for residents.
Melchoir Tokhes: What’s the story with the Friends list and the online status indication? Can we expect to see (please) a way where we can check the online status and update the client side on a per-person basis?
Torley Linden: Friends list not working on the Issue Tracker - https://jira.lindenlab.com/browse/SL-40433
Cory Linden: My blog post went into some detail on this. In addition there are details on the public jira. Plus, we are continuing to roll out fixes to thsi system.
Salazar Jack: What will have to happen to eliminate region crossing rubberbanding, for everything from simply walking across a region boundary to traveling between region in vehicles. Is there a way to make that seamless and unnoticeable?
Cory Linden: As many of you know, the region crossing process involves packaging up the objects, scripts, script state and movin ghtem between physical machines…
Cory Linden: there are still some approaches available to us to mask that latency and I feel that we will be able to improve that a lot.
Cory Linden: However, the resources to address that are currently on broader scaling/stability issues.
Michael Dale: Regarding teleporting, it is our only real method of travel within SL. It’s constant breakdowns hinder everyone’s ability to perform basic and routine functions within SL. When will this issue be addressed and corrected?
Cory Linden: We are currently working on better metrics for detecting teleport issues and stomping out the bugs in the system.
Phoenix Psaltery: How does LL plan to deal with urgent scaling issues through 3Q2007 as the concurrent logins continue to grow?
Cory Linden: As the blog post talks about, most of the development effort is on those issues, plus the next gen architecture will enable us to achieve far larger scale than we can today.
Cory Linden: OK, last question…
Radslns Hutchence: As residents, invested in making SL work, what can we do, in addition to being patient, to help with any of these initiatives?
Cory Linden: Patience obviously helps, but more than that, please help the community build the pieces it needs to make SL a better place…
Cory Linden: If you are a programmer, contribute to the open source project or come work for us…
Cory Linden: If you have bugs and can repro them, add data into thepublic jira…
Cory Linden: Help with the wiki and documentation…
Cory Linden: Spend time helping out in the welcome areas and help island…
Cory Linden: As bill and ted would say, be excellent to each other.
Cory Linden: Thank you all very much for all the great questions.
Cory Linden: I will be making blog posts about known issues more regularly as we move forward as well.
Jeska Linden: Thanks for coming to the Town Hall everyone. Please note the transcript from the Town Hall will be posted in the Blog.
Jeska Linden: That’s at blog.secondlife.com
Cory Linden: And as we will be talking in more detail about the next gen architecture, search, etc, soon.
Cory Linden: Thanks, everyone.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:15 PM
You’re welcome.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:20 PM
I thought group IMs were “fixed” with the recent downtime in response to this http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/04/28/second-life-version-1150-issues/ post. What were the restarts/downtimes about if it was not in response to the IM issues?
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:21 PM
Thank you
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:34 PM
I’m really disappointed in the ‘answer’ to my questions about inventory loss. Pointing everyday customers to Jira to look at bug reports does them no good. What I’m asking about is a resource to tell them what to do, what steps to find the items, how to make a bug report, how to ask for help from support, etc. I’m also asking that if you see a pattern in the requests, that you release some hints or tips to help avoid inventory loss that you can pass on.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:37 PM
About traffic: what is it going to be replaced with? How are Places going to be sorted out?
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:46 PM
If you can’t fix SL right now, maybe you can call your ISP. There is a major delay of 900ms inbetween 2 of the routers. I have a constant ping of ~1 second right now.
[...]
11 357 ms 213 ms 211 ms xe-1-1.r03.snjsca04.us.bb.gin.ntt.net [129.250.2.209]
12 951 ms 968 ms 1041 ms ge-3-3.r03.snjsca04.us.ce.gin.ntt.net [128.241.219.6]
13 1117 ms 1186 ms 1199 ms border2.ge2-1-bbnet2.sfo002.pnap.net [63.251.63.82]
14 995 ms 1039 ms 1111 ms loadbalancer4.lindenlab.com [66.150.244.169]
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:48 PM
Because of the timing of this meeting and the sterling job you folks do on giving people advanced notice of such things, I had to send an agent to represent me to this meeting. Not too much to my surprise, he couldn’t even get a ’seat’ at the actual get-together - but then when the CC group broke, and he attempted to pose a question about it having done so… he got verbally jumped on for it. Nice way to treat the customers guys. Way to go!
And - if we fixed the blasted group IM’s in this last patch - how come it broke during the meeting?
Confidence level just went from the half way mark down to about 25%. Way to go LL!
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:51 PM
I would have attended, but SL would not let me log in (again)…
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:53 PM
6 million members.. wow.
May 3rd, 2007 at 1:57 PM
I didn’t realize the Town Hall was going to turn Technical only.
How about a town hall that is not technical, and speak to the “REAL” paying customers to address financial accountability and financial responsibilities from Linden Labs as a business platform?
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:00 PM
I had problems with the IM captions, so this post is most helpful. Thank you!
I do think that the stability issue is most important for many of us, as we cannot enjoy even the basics of SL without it
I heard/see mention of a problem with Mozilla, but I have not heard much about this before (but I’ve only been here a couple of months). Can this lead to conflicts with the viewer — and the crashes we’ve been experiencing with 1.14 and 1.15?
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:03 PM
[...] official transcript is posted on the Linden blog here. The boiled-down parts of what he [...]
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:09 PM
Now all business owners not only have lost alot of business the past few weeks but now we dont know how the new search is gonna work give us some thoughts on how it will show up so we know if we want to expand our business, stay same or just pull out cause we wont be showing up in search much anymore. My business has dropped and so has all my friends the past few weeks who have businesses.
Please tell us what the new search revelence will be so we know how our business will or wont be impacted
thanks
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:14 PM
hello
if any one wants an unedited version of the transcript for SL TownHall meeting please send me an IM and I will send you a notecard of the entire meeting captured with chat and all the gory details included
JayR Cela
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:14 PM
Is it just me, or does every answer given sound like it’s been written by a squirming politician?
Q: Why is SL so broken?
A: Well, that’s a good question. But what I’d really like to talk about is…etc.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:15 PM
Hi Lindens,
Thank you for this town hall meeting, and for your informative pre-meeting blog post! It is quite good to hear that you are working on long-term solutions and not just quickie fixes that won’t address the problems permanently.
There was only one question here that I thought the answer was really skirted on, an this is it:
[12:04] Jeska Linden: Daaneth Kivioq: I wanted to konw - since it is clear that permromance issues are closely related to concurrent log ins, why throttling is not beeing used more agressively - i.e. - starting booting non-verifieds when the load gets high?
[12:05] Cory Linden shouts: We’re trying to be careful about not using it too aggressively and building metrics to better know when to use it. The building of the metrics is ongoing.
You had blogged previously that when the load was so high that massive problems are being experience that you would restrict new logins from free accounts. I have not once seen this happen, even during the times when the bugs have been really bad. So I think it is a very valid question.
If you come back and read these posts a real answer would be appreciated. Again, thanks for communicating with us and letting us know about the long term solutions you are working on
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:16 PM
Nothing new, which is also nothing new.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:16 PM
What strikes me as the major failing of this method of tracking down and dealing with problems, is that Jira (or any bug-tracking system) is being promoted as The Tool to report issues, but:
- bug tracking requires reproducible bugs, and from what I can see the overwhelming majority of problems experienced on a day-to-day basis are simply not reproducible at all, and are instead entirely arbitrary. Missing inventory, failed purchases, failed land transfers, these things happen at random and therefore cannot be addressed as bugs to be reproduced and tracked down.
- the abovementioned examples cause immediate, permanent, irreperable harm, so even if it were a useful approach to report them on Jira (and it’s not), it does nothing to mitigate the damage done, and people rightly conclude that Jira can do nothing for them in the short term, and is a waste of time in that sense. Sure, I would hope that many of us would like to help SL become a better place by reporting bugs, but that’s a completely different issue from the losses that are now ocurring daily.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:18 PM
Well if group IM’s were fixed you sure could have fooled all of us that were trying to listen in on the Channel Designated for this. Disappointing that we are using a medium that is broken at the moment to answer questions about how they are going to fix it.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:23 PM
I must admit that i’m gettin more and more impatient with SL.. I became a Premium member about a 1½ months ago, when everything still worked fine.
I really love beeig here in SL.. but since then the lag in all areas has become increasingly worse and worse…
Have NEVER had to relogg as many times as in the last 2 weeks EVEN after tha last update.. I’m talking several times an hour, when its at its worst.
It seems the servers can’t cope with many more than 30.000 people at any ONE time.. Is this in ANY way going to be fixed ??
Or else you should maybe consider to split up SL in a Basic AND a Premium part… and that way get rid of some of the lagg for the paying members.
Must admit i didn’t expect SL to get WORSE after becomming a paying member…
Now that this is said I must say that i’m STILL thrilled about SL…
Thank you
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:24 PM
And perhaps if Group IM was fixed and adopted the “proposed feature” that i’d submitted and which Linden Labs approved for development (nearly a year ago) where the “officers” of the group could toggle on/off the ability for the group members to “chat” in group IM - rather than us all trying (and failing) to get to a SIM that couldn’t hold us all - you could have typed your meeting in Group IM without any of us commenting unless you chose to give us a flag to be able to chat (individually) - we could have been anywhere in world and still been a part of the meeting.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:24 PM
About Communications, we keep being told to see a previous blog about ways to contact LL, as was pointed out, these other “ways” do NOT address and are insufficient ways to deal with urgent issues, and emergency issues-like GReifings, sim attacks, Spam attacks, sim restarts, and such.
these other “ways” only yield auto responses at best or often no response.
The only alternative that has yielded any linden responses or results is Jira issue tracker.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:32 PM
no matter how much I might want to go to these town meetings, there is no way to get into the sim. Having them on the beta grid would be even worse, having them voice only on the beta graid would take away the ability of people to read the transcript afterwords. You had better have someone transcribing the meeting for the blog or there are going to be a lot of angry people.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:33 PM
Saying 69% of the development team is working on the issues sounds like a serious effort until you learn that 69% of the team equals 37 developers.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:33 PM
The Town hall just made a mockery of the open letter way to go LL it showed that the patches you said fixed group Ims did not fix them we could not even get any chat from groups the groups are so over loaded that they gave us errors about permissions a few weeks a go torley posted that there was a patch put out for inventory loss well that didnt work either its time to stop these new features and fix the broken things LL really im so ready to sell everything and pack it in my patience has worn to a thread NO customer service from LL they block us and make it almost impossible to contact anyone in world I have used the email support for problems and they dont even look at it so i get mad and i will Im every linden in game til one responds if i have to and i have done this already twice when needing help instantly my emails werent even looked at til after the fact hour and a half after and the bad thing is if i didnt Im a linden in world it probably wouldnt ever been addressed.. i just recieved emails on a jira and bug reports i filed 2 months ago! asking me if i still have the problem and to please retest in this new version they closed my jira twice without resolve or contact THAT IS IGNOREING US AND MAKES US PISSED OFF..losses to our customers lost business cus your search features that we PAY for do not work half the time…losing customers products that they purchase and dont understand that is a SL bug doing it they blame us business owners threaten and cuss us out well its just NOT ACCEPTABLE NONE OF THIS we pay HUGE amounts of tier money and classified payments and listing costs monthly and all we get is a deaf ears constantly and if we ask for help its like we are cutting into your precious Lindens time well when u start to lose paying cusomers and u start to get cutbacks and lay offs you will figure it out im sure lawsuits are in the works for much of this also there is only so much tour TOS can protect u from this post is probably useless too cus Lindens barely post or read these forums or if tehy do they sure dont take the time to answer anyones questions or lead them in a direction of help your wiki is all fine and good but somethings are just not covered and answered there
just totally miffed that a company could have such poor customer service in this day and age and all of us just sit back and allow it to happen
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:46 PM
i would come work for LL but i can’t afford to move.
too bad since i know my wealth of database and system architecture many years of skills and knowledge would be put to use on something i love.
SL is a metaverse. too bad LL remains mired in the dead past requiring people to be on site when in actuality we could use SL for the necessary meetings. And deliverables on time tell whether or not a resource is productive and earning the pay.
shoot my rl bills are low. i could work for half the market rate from wehre i live easy.
wake up Linden Labs.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:48 PM
sorry about the dyslexia spelling. i have a bad migraine.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:48 PM
While I understand that the JIRA is the best tool for the Lindens working on these issues, I am not sure how user friendly it is to the general public. There’s a lot of info on there - really great info. But if people can’t access the info or are confused by the site, it’s not really a resource for them. Maybe a tutorial would help, but I find it quite frustrating to tell my customers to go to the JIRA to vote on an issue and have them confused as hell when they get there.
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:48 PM
I’d like to see similar questions answered by Billing and the Volunteer team… see http://forums.secondlife.com/showpost.php?p=1491056&postcount=2
Thanks,
gillian
May 3rd, 2007 at 2:58 PM
rofl good show *golf clap
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:00 PM
Thank you for holding the town meeting, and responding to our concerns. I believe that you have make it clear that scaling and stability are the two big concerns of your developers right now, as they should be given the difficulties that we have been experiencing recently.
I hope that you will keep an emphasis on fixing the problems with presence information, large group IM, and search. Those are all issues that greatly decrease my enjoyment of Second Life.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:06 PM
About working for Linden: great, but I’d like to not ever set a foot into the US. Fingerprints of all 10 fingers, hand out email adresses, credit cards and stuff, laws that are just ridicuous. If you ever open something in Europe, I might reconsider. .)
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:07 PM
[12:51] Jeska Linden shouts: PetGirl Bergman: when wil large groups be able to send outnotices again - mine are over 1000 and have stopped working?
[12:52] Torley Linden: For many of these bugs, you can look them up on the Issue Tracker (Public JIRA) - Group Notices failing - https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/MISC-37
How does looking up a bug that’s been on this hard to use webpage for endless months do anything at all? Communication within groups would seem like a VITAL, BASE FUNCTIONALITY thing to me. Not something to leave on the floor broken while developers play around with Search. What is this fascination with Search? Cory has been going on about it for months like it’s job one. I dont think you will find 1 in 1000 people who gives a #@$* about Search with all the other issues in our face.
——–
[12:47] Jeska Linden shouts: Thorian Pennell: I would like to know if it’ll be possible for group owners to limit chat ability of members?
[12:47] Cory Linden shouts: Voice chat within groups is on the roadmap, so yes.
Thorian means chat…text, written words, you know the DB frying spam created when someone asks a group of 1500 for a TP or sends “come to my club” spam. Not to mention the painful and unwelcome X has left the session messages.
——-
Finally, why does Jeska feed questions already answered? Does she not read the pre-meeting text? There is no need to waste limited time to have to say, i blogged about that. What is the point? Shouldn’t she filter out the repeats?
anyway…thanks for the words i’ll store them with your others.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:16 PM
Regarding beta grid time…other platforms I am aware of take the approach of either a) compensating beta testers for time taken to participate in the process, or b)not charging subscription fees for use of beta platforms.
Why and how did the Linden model evolve/devolve to one wherein the subscriber who does not spend all their time online in the beta grid becomes guilty for the lack of testing??? Where in the TOS did it say that we all are responsible for beta support? Did I miss that somewhere???
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:18 PM
Oops, no edit mode here…one more thing…are we paying to spend our time on the main grid, or to wade through hours of reading in the Wiki/JIRA to figure out what is new and what will be redacted? Has the concept of “plug and play” been lost to the mavens of Silicon Valley???
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:20 PM
Wow, I haven’t seen this many deflection of answers and “we’re working on it” statements in a very long time. I got nothing out of this and frankly didn’t expect anything to change.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:21 PM
Why not publish your so-called “time map”? And to tell us that free accounts are not as much of a resource-eater as we think is insulting.
My suggestion (and others have had the same thoughts) is simply this: give a 90 day free account. If no action or logins after that point, it disappears. If the same person really wants to come back in (as you state), let them get another account.
Then clean up your DB after announcing to everyone that 90 day + accounts with no activity will be wiped and all Linden balances in those accounts will be lost.
You have then, 1) reduced DB load and 2) given everyone a plan that CAN improve SL.
I would work for you for free, but Ill be damned if I have to move to SF to do it.
SunShine
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:23 PM
it passed 3 hours and im constantly receiving this message when i start sl: “unable to connect. login packet never received by login server.” I even uninstalled and installed agasin but i keep on receiving this message. what can i do???
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:28 PM
@37
OMG, I thought it was just me…nothing but “happy, warm fuzzy-talk” and lots of re-direction.
@LL: I have one more question, for Cory (thanks for the effort, BTW, I guess): In light of the last week, since the Open Letter came out…why in the name of all that is sacred to your company is your development team ONLY 69%, and not 100%, committed to addressing the technical issues which the letter brought to you attention? Does that mean the other 31% of the bumbles disguised as upgrades are still being worked on? Even in light of the letter, all the new forums, you don’t see that nothing less than 99% effort/manpower on current issues will be acceptible???
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:31 PM
I think in truth I got more from the pre-mtg blog than here. Not trying to be critical, but this seems mostly to be - read the JIRA - read the blog - we’re working on it.
One area (coalessed here) I would like to comment on though, and I promise it is the last time I raise this issue:
13:08] Cory Linden shouts:
* If you are a programmer, contribute to the open source project or come work for us…
* If you have bugs and can repro them, add data into thepublic jira…
* Help with the wiki and documentation…
* Spend time helping out in the welcome areas and help island…
I personally applied for two positions at LL last year. One (Prjt Mng) is still posted on the LL website as needed, the other (liaison) I assume has been abolished. I even followed this up with email and IM’s to Lindens in world. I never received so much as “No Thanks” in responce.
Myself and more than a few friends, all very well versed in SL, building, scripting, et al., have voluteered to help as Mentors, Help Desk, etc., but again, never got any responce to inquiries, even those directed to the Lindens who appear to be responcible for those areas.
So my question Cory is this: Who are you talking to when you shout - work for us, help out, etc. I certainly doesn’t appear to be anyone I know.
DRD
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:31 PM
The biggest issue the Lindens have to address is the fact that customers are not components in a software system, and should not be treated like untrackable bugs in the system.
As well as all the programmers they’re hiring, they need someone who understands customer relations, and the process of getting feedback from those customers to improve the system, and most importantly _feeding back to the customers_. I detect a distinct lack of understanding in the Lindens as to who their customers are, what we think, what we want, and what pisses us off. This could be down to the customer base changing from one that regards bugs as a feature of the game, possibly _the_ main feature, to one that gets pissed off when the game breaks.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:36 PM
@42
Amen! Most companies do not have the luxury of paying customers who will stay around for three years and do the development work and content work for free…it is time that Linden begin to view their client base as something other than the first 10,000 accounts that consisted almost wholey of other “pixel/byte” addicts. Their client base is NOT avatars, there are 10’s of 1,000’s of real paying customers out there behind each of those IP addresses, who expect product for cost.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:41 PM
Patient People….Patient is the key or get over it.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:46 PM
In my opinion LL works very-very hard on all the issues, bugs, etc, and there’s nothing wrong with that. They’re doing their best, I appreciate that.
70% working on bugs and stability issues also sounds great. BUT if that means only about 40 people, well, less so. C’mon LL, you have 6 million clients!!! I know you’re trying to hire more people, but hiring 5 guys when the number of clients have grown from 1000000 to 6000000 in a few months…
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:46 PM
I agree, Vincent, and with reasonable expectation, patience is an infinite stream…but patience for hours, days, even weeks and months, is possible…patience on the part of so many who are SO invested in the original vision, who have toiled and contributed for years…
Well, for those folks, vocal conviction to progress/improvement does not honor THEIR patience. Firm commitment to make immediate change, and to commit all resources to the ACT of fixing it, not just the vision….that is what will honor our faith.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:48 PM
I was in the next region to Pooley putting my nose to the closed window, like many other people. Some guys were fooling around with weapons and so on. When we heard of the chance to get the chat via group IM’s, I sat back on a chair nearby, and had a look on the ongoing, broken, dissonant conversation.
The two questions I IM’d were cut down by the system at once, the discussion stream itself was Chaos and I got the half, I think. - Well, at all, me on my chair there I felt happy enough to read this here now again and ok, you DO know for the problems I think. - Thus, I have hope
- There should be smaller meetings to specific points in the future.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:56 PM
omg lol
that was an -excellent- townhall, and i wish i hadn’t have missed it in person. cory linden -> hornet’s nest 
capably supported by jeska and torley 
that hints to some fascinating possibilities down the road… avatar hosting separate from sim hosting?? did i read between the lines correctly?
that may offer a different type of scaling… but perhaps more advantageous in that lower-traffic sims can be grouped up and consolidated to as few cpus as necessary…
for the record, my most pressing issues atm seem to be the missing inventory bug - i’ve a personal missing inventory just from last night that is hopefuly easily pulled from some bu - and the ‘missing gesture’ bug; i had to delete all my saved custom gestures to keep from crashing on login. (i probably use mine a lot more than others ‘cuz it’s been killin’ me to not have them anymore:\ even rebuilding a couple of the gestures seems to reintroduce the bug.)
POSITIVES: since last update, ‘missing inventory’ complaints from customers has reduced greatly!! whatever in the asset/db fixes has helped, it has!!:)))
NEGATIVES: ‘missing gesture’ bug, previously mentioned. (i deleted all of mine, so it must be a corrupt gesture in the linden db??)
missing inventory: still a prob, as my previously reported missing personal copy of my AOrta toy+its storebought inventory from just last night.
increased reports and personal sightings of incompletely rezzed avi skins/cloths. (minor, as often recommending a few seconds of ‘appearance’ or how to perform a texture rebake seems to cure the ill for now. texture-load registering must be a b***otch at either end.
May 3rd, 2007 at 3:59 PM
Needless to say I was very sadened by the event.
In that this is the 20+ Town Hall meeting one would think that useing voice would have been a lot simpler. We were all set up for it.
It was such a mess as far as what questions that mattered got answered I am still at a loss and after sleeping I will attempt to re-read what happened.
What I did walk away with was the questions I did hear being asnwered were fluff and duplicates like in JIRA which was pushed over and over. There were no real answers as to when things were goign to be fixed. Vague and illusive.
No dates no idea as to when or what. Very disapointing.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:02 PM
As expected, lots of questions to which the answer was, ” go away little person, I am busy ”
This is loosing a lot of people, myself included, a lot of money.
It is time that we started to put in real complaints, by phone, email or any other method whenever something does not work. which means I will be on the free support line most of the day7.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:02 PM
@Jamie
In the forums, folks asked over and over, what are you doing right now, as you speak, to fix this? What are you doing different now that you suddenly realize that we *really are* upset about this, and not just playing avi-games?
Funny, not one of those questions got in…
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:03 PM
[13:03] Jeska Linden shouts: Salazar Jack: What will have to happen to eliminate region crossing rubberbanding, for everything from simply walking across a region boundary to traveling between region in vehicles. Is there a way to make that seamless and unnoticeable?
[13:04] Cory Linden shouts: As many of you know, the region crossing process involves packaging up the objects, scripts, script state and movin ghtem between physical machines…
[13:04] Cory Linden shouts: there are still some approaches available to us to mask that latency and I feel that we will be able to improve that a lot.
I can think of one way right now that seems like it’d be simple. Have adjacent sims (the two closest, depending on which quarter of the sim you’re in) track your physical movement, attachments, and vehicle. When you’re passing from one sim to another, all that would have to be transfered would be the control connection. With half a sim’s buffering, you’d need to be going very fast indeed (or be aiming to cross at a corner) to not give the next sim time to grab all the relevant info.
Another possible option would be distributed physics/control, where your sim and the four (eight?) adjacent sims maintain constant watch over your avatar, attachments, and physics. This would, obviously, fill up sim resources a great deal and drop avatar concurrence within all sims in SL, but if resource management on a per sim basis could be tidied up a bit it might be an option.
Oh, another idea, assume a basic shape for the physics engine in the new sim and transfer the engine script over first and run it, along with user controls. Doing something like that oblong sphere idea for the sculpted prims, only adapting it for airplanes and cars might be a good idea. Transfer the rest of the important data over afterwards. This would allow users to retain control of their vehicles in a relatively seamless manner (especially if you do it as suggested in the first idea above, have neighbouring sims track just the sphere and engine script of the vehicle and the user’s controls), and would only be subject to a small period where the vehicle might seem to handle a bit oddly (which would be the normal rubber banding time while the actual mass and shape of the vehicle gets copied over).
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:08 PM
@50
What one most needs to succeed as a company, and the one thing that no company can do without??? Not current clientele, but potential market pool…it is the reputation of the company in the eyes of prospective clients that is the key to success.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:12 PM
[i] [12:14] Jeska Linden shouts: Digital Digital: I would like to know whyat are we supposed to do when we lose such an expensive item in second life for example I bought a slingo machine for 16KL and it’s gone, I have tried everything also reported it many times and never get a responce back in e-mail or anything.
[12:15] Cory Linden shouts: As is spelled out in the terms of service, you do create content at your own risk in SL. We are making every effort to reduce that loss and I am sorry that it has occurred… [/i]
So basicly, you’re saying tough luck that we lost your money or hard work? Thats clinched it for me. No more money going into SL from my bank. I’ll happily spend L$ I make ingame but nooooo way am I using my hard earned RL wages just to be treated like that.
/me cancels plan to buy sim with the wife
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:19 PM
I for one, am not a techie, but that linden town hall did NOTHING to answer my basic problems of losing inventory, and NON-existant customer care. I have only been on SL since October 06 but it has gone WAY downhill. I recently sold my property, house, and, since I was offered the extra Lindens, everything in it, and I am now totally glad.
I will buy nothing else of any value until I KNOW I won’t lose anything anymore. Cory linden just said in the townhall meetingt essentially that buying and keeping inventory is “AT OUR OWN RISK”, and when SL is so full of bugs, and there are no guarantees, that’s totally unaceptable. Consider me sidelined. I will spend NO MORE MONEY here, and may not even stay in SL anymore, it’s just not fun like it used to be. THANK GOD I didn;t invest in a business here!!! Sorry to all that did, but it’s too risky and the creatotrs of the world take NO RESPONSIBILITY.
It’s sad, SL was cool, but now it’s more work and stress than fun. That’s means it’s time to go……..
Steve Finn
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:25 PM
ANd another thing!!! HOW CAN YOU JUST TAKE THE RATINGS, SOMETHING WE PAID FOR, AND GIVE NO REFUNDS??? That’s STEALING!! How come people aren’t angry? I didn’t rate too many people, but I saw people who had given over 3,000 Ratings!!! How can they NOT be refunded their money? THAT IS CRAP!!!
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:29 PM
(postscripts to some comments i’ve seen above…
you ever have 37 developers yourself trying to work out a set of bugs underneath your management?? that’s really a lot, considering most single-title videogame teams top out at 100, severely subdivided upon content/architecture scales… and a larrrrrge part of the ll service team is dedicated to trying to keep up with service, whether on-the-spot or managing the rest of the ops. heck last i knew there were only a hundred lindens as is.
(taking that all as estimate to current working team, that’s fifty tops at most to service a 60-day login community of over 1.5 million?? a paying premium audience of only something over 27K??? my god, it’s insane really.)
working myself in hardly-complex coding environments, and seeing how slow often the pace of such that can be, sorry but i dunno - i just empathize with the coding hazards they have walled around themselves. they have to do all of this upon the balance of -protecting- us to, all by inventory rights (as creators and sellers and customers and consumers alike).
i’ve darned experienced at least each of one of the major sl hazards - missing inventory, group posting problems (map related mostly) - and we all only really have account history to be a final tally for it all, other than our own usually self-built devices.
it’s -their- playground, eventually… yes some pay to play, but what about living within the environment’s means?? it’s tough enough as a seller if i didn’t have any overly-extensive land parcel to support - i own land, but it’s easily within my means. i can only imagine what stress such support issues would mean to someone who is taking things a little bit more ‘confidently’ than should be.
club/estate owners may take the most risk beneath all the support requests… that is much appreciated by all the creators inworld, assuredly.
dunno what else to say but - ‘BOOYAH!!:’
we’re all in this together 
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:29 PM
1: I’m confused about bugs/Jira. Should I submit bug reports in world, or try to learn Jira and submit them somehow that way?
2: “Create at your own risk” is one thing; what I’ve created, I can do again. “Buy at your own risk” (that umpteen thousand L$ purchase mentioned) is a different level of risk, and would be crippling to the economic health of SL. I think it would be realistic for someone to address this.
The group IM group I was most concerned with *was* fixed by the little update yesterday. Thank you, LL!
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:33 PM
@55, Meaning you refused to be patient. Good, so you don’t have to torture yourself any longer by being in SL.
And youre not a techie if you knew what they were planning anyway. …which they has been working on it. People is only making it worst by pulling them out of their workarea and talk about same thing that they already know about, wasting their time but they care enough to get out and listen to people complaining about.
It’s kinda sad and annoying.
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:49 PM
@ Linden Labs - Re: “Town Hall Meeting”
All Of The Questions Were Copied And Pasted, So Were All Of The Answers. You Might Have Saved Us All The Time And Trouble By Just Posting It All Here In The 1st Place. Everyone Who Wasn’t A Linden Was Edited Out Anyway. All Of This Was Rehearsed Over And Over Again Until The Spin Was “Just Right”, Evasive, Patronising, Demeaning, Degrading, And Totally Non-Commital. You Mock Your Entire Customer Base And Rely On Them Being So Stupidly Addicted Or Worringly Invested In SL That They Will Endure Any Amount Of Virtual Humiliation And Torment. This Makes Me Very Sad Indeed. And I Am Far From Alone. So Much For The Good Faith That Thousands Of Residents Put In The Open Letter. And Im Still Waiting For All The Money I Spent On Ratings To Be Paid Back….But Enough Of This Painful Realism, Time To Get My Fix, Like The Good Little Addict I Am….*Logs Into SL*
May 3rd, 2007 at 4:58 PM
@LL thank you for your responses.Those were very informative ,as far as I am concerned.
To all the whiners ( go ahead and flame me ..lol)
The most outcries seem to be coming from ,as one respondent put it, “REAL” paying customers. So, my real paying customers:
SL is not a business platform as of right now and I have no doubt, that LL is working hard to become one. Therefore it would be only prudent to make an effort to understand, that LL realizes the simple truth of financial accountability ( as in not being totally negligent in the prevention of the financial loses to its customers is a #1 issue) is one of the basic premises of running any business. What it comes down to is ” the sink or swim” reality of it. It is the same for any other company. Having said that, most of the business on SL sell crap, lets call it what it is. The stuff is mostly no mod and no copy. that disallows any mistakes made by newbies to be rectifiable easily and since SL is rather “star trek replicator ” based technology the ulterior motif seems to be an unhealthy kind of greed. So if you loose business ..who cares.
on the same note everyone seems to be preoccupied with providing content rather than service. Its not working for music and movie industry, what in the world made you think people that it would work for you. After being on SL I have found only 6( of the top of my head calico, by maxx, neva naughty, blaze) places providing quality content with an excellent customer service, maybe its time for the “real” paying customers of LL to extend the same curtsy, they require from LL to their customer base. Yes I also get upset when my 5000L$ item disappear, but such is life. Think about it, just using Microsoft windows platform, businesses incur millions of dollars in loses and no one was able to get Microsoft to pay for it and anyone agrees to it by a quiet complacency. how is the SL different. I think that LL aspires to be the amazon.com with 3D and sex content and they have a really good shoot at it and we all are in the birthing stages of it. There was an angry guy above here somewhere, talking about the possible lawsuits in the works. The way the California structures the legal stuff would make a class action suit just a nuisance to LL and as one lawyer I know from SL says: the small claims would be an insect sting. Well, my dear PO’ed or whatever your nick was…organize 2000 0r 3000 or more concurrent cases of small claims ,that may work, but all it probably would do is just kill SL.
My experiences with SL have been good but since I wasn’t here since the “good old days” maybe I just don’t know any better…
for goodness sake , its just a game at this point in time
to LL, good luck folks I sure enjoyed it so far
May 3rd, 2007 at 5:02 PM
The problems with Jira…
1) Jira’s interface isn’t exactly the friendliest thing for the common user base to file bugs on.
2) If Bug Reports from in-world are going to be of less priority over Jira bugs, it’d be good to provide a link to Jira in the Bug Report window.
3) Jira has the same problems the Vote system had. Albeit it’s a bit better at other things. Linden comments are not on important bugs and bug importance levels seem to be being ignored (How many “Show Stoppers” are there?). The only better thing seems to be for duplicates.
It would be best if the current Bug Report window could automatically add bugs reported in there to the Jira and then email the person the link to the Jira in that auto-response email thing.
There is clearly a problem with the current bug reporting system if a large portion of questions that are coming in at Town Halls are about bugs and no one knows anything about them.
Using the Login window for brief statements on on-going bugs would be good. Blog links alone don’t grab attention.
May 3rd, 2007 at 5:07 PM
noooo… Cory on a female avatar??? Tell (moi) it’s not true!!!
Now the least that you can do (LL) is to POST shots from the TownHall so that we can tell with our best knowledge and by scraping of the body language what Cory really meant to say
I judge this a serious breakthru in metaverse tech advance.
So, you guys wanted those few inventories back and you got them, WeKnowWho was right again. Amen.
Mucho Love. I mean it!
May 3rd, 2007 at 5:12 PM
BTW,
I just bought Atlassian.
No, this was my April’s fool BUT I FEEL IT, how this applies to current events!
To the Open-Letter-Project heads: this is just life. You won’t take it too seriously, do you?
May 3rd, 2007 at 5:31 PM
There was a forum created for people to put Townhall questions in.
What was the purpose of that forum?
I’m not seeing any evidence that any of the questions were picked out by the Linden staff and