Removal of Ratings in Beta
Thursday, April 12th, 2007 at 12:27 PM by: Jeska LindenLater today, we plan to release a new version of the Beta Test Grid, where you may notice a different version of the profile which completely removes ratings. As Second Life has grown, the ratings system has become less and less useful. During our investigation into ways to help reduce database load, we found that the database resources required to maintain the ratings system were far greater than its utility and popularity. We are currently working on adding features that will allow Residents more flexibility in bringing their real and online identities into Second Life.
We’re excited to see that several Residents, seeing opportunities for better solutions, have already created in-world ratings/reputation/social systems which you may want to explore:
- RatePoint, which allows you to rate and review Residents you meet in-world
- TrustNet, a trust system created by Dale Glass
- Ban Link, a distributed ban system developed by Travis Lambert and Mera Pixel - more info
- Sloog.org, a bookmarking system developed by Mosi-Mosi Metaverse
- Real Reputations, ratings system designed by Shaun Altman
- SLicr, in-world search and rating service
Also, you might want to check out Babbage Linden’s open source SLateIt project, which allows you to give a rating to any object inside Second Life. Please let me know if there are any other Resident created systems to add to the list!
Thank you all for your patience as we continue to build and grow Second Life.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:28 PM
Good call. If ratings are causing load on the servers, give em the axe.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:33 PM
Well, please reimburse us for those we have given out …
April 12th, 2007 at 12:35 PM
Yet another downgrade? People have spent hundreds of dollars on ratings. How are we supposed to tell at a glance if the person is a n00b or not? Whats next, hiding payment info. You people at LL really gotta get your act together!
April 12th, 2007 at 12:36 PM
@2
Yes, I agree. If you are gonna get rid of em, please reimburse us.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:36 PM
What about all the lindens i have now wasted on rating people. Are we going to get a refund, or is that just another sneaky way linden labs had planed all along for them to make more money.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:41 PM
It’s funny they do all these things to “reduce the load” yet I’m not seeing any better results.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:41 PM
I don’t think its the right way for SL to remove even more functionality just to get some quick database relief. The complexity of SL is a part of its attraction. In the last month you removed more and more. Where will you stop?
April 12th, 2007 at 12:41 PM
Exactly what will replace the ratings space anyhow?
April 12th, 2007 at 12:42 PM
Damn, and I just got into double digits.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:42 PM
Just as the rest have said, refund please.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:43 PM
I will miss the ratings as I feel it a nice way to express my appreciation to somene for a kindness rendered, and to let the rest of the people know how this person acts. I understand that 3rd party systems exist, but who is going to take the time to go look at them?
And yes, if you are going to remove them, I feel that we should be reimbursed for those we have given. You took our money, now you are taking the product we purchsed with that money.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:43 PM
I’m with you on the dismissal of this. Sure for some it has become useful over the years, but for the most part highly under used. I find it interesting that call girls can get a much higher rating in such a short period of time, then lets say those that are mentors, non SL volunteers, as well as those who just go around helping people out. Give it the axe. well unless you can add a negative to the rating system. I can think of many who deserve the big ole minus sign as well.
Either way it was a great idea, but has proven to be innacurate.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:44 PM
>_
April 12th, 2007 at 12:44 PM
Well, for once we agree. The ratings system is just a clique tool anyway. The other inworld systems work well. If those lists are maintaned inworld though, is there really any net gain on DB load?
DRD
April 12th, 2007 at 12:45 PM
There is no current rating system that I have seen that is unbiased and fair. What is out there now is abused and causes items to be under/over rated. I look forward to the day when we can have at least one standard interface for a good and meaningful rating system that does not discriminate.
I will explore the current ones and see how things can be improved for the benifit of us all.
Love,
Davina
April 12th, 2007 at 12:49 PM
Oh bugger all… So there’ll basically be no LL-provided rating system anymore?
April 12th, 2007 at 12:49 PM
Lets see, that means when the version goes live we will all be getting our Given rating times 25l right?
April 12th, 2007 at 12:51 PM
I have searched in known issues, all over, but can not find any official info on the Sit / Teleport issues I have seen and also read in the blog.
You can no longer Sit on an object behind another one, or through another object. This makes getting out of some traps and cages virtually impossible.
Was this changed on purpose ( the locked door league would love that!) or is it an unintended feature that will be corrected?
DRD
April 12th, 2007 at 12:51 PM
It may be slightly inaccurate, but its better than having to go to 5 different websites and read the person’s reviews for 10minutes. =(
April 12th, 2007 at 12:52 PM
I can understand removing the feature to improve the quality of gameplay. However, I do believe, having it been a pay-per-rating feature a refund is most definitely in order. You want your customers to feel secure when they invest their money in you and the systems you set up for them in-world. Small as it may be, compared to other things in SL, the rating system was an investment for some and should be treated as one when you make the decision to pull it.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:54 PM
Lindons back please
April 12th, 2007 at 12:56 PM
I also vote for Refunds.
April 12th, 2007 at 12:56 PM
Hmmm. Well, since you’ve announced your intentions, you may as well go ahead and get rid of the system altogether - effective immediately.
I, for one, know that I will not be giving any further ratings (not that I’ve given all that many to begin with!). What would be the point?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:04 PM
@20: The removal of it from the UI requires a new version of Second Life.
I don’t see this as a loss, really, as ratings don’t factor in to my profile reading. I usually make inferences based on profile content, not some fake “props” number.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:06 PM
When i think back to the time i joined SL… oh.. such a long time ago (22 october 2006) [sarcasm mode off] and what has been lost…
another six months… will there be anything left of the world i fell for?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:07 PM
Why remove rating? it generates Lindens. After all, those who rate others would also receive reciprocal ratings. I pat your back, you pat mine. We together elevate out of noobness…
And “payment info on file”, what a great indicator of nobility. I would suggest “Lindens spent” indicator. It will help tremendously those poor escorts to weed out the customers.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:09 PM
Maybe get an additional database server?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:12 PM
one word: REFUND !!!
L$ 25 * given ratings
April 12th, 2007 at 1:12 PM
this is one feature i have never used, i never figured out why i would have to pay 25L to give someone a rating. and any rating tool can be abused, it doesnt matter what system is used. you will still have outrageous ratings on call girls and erotic dancers, and the “good” people in SL that need the high ratings will still get shut out. just the same reason the did away with the negative ratings cause the “olde guard” would attack the new residents with negative ratings just cause they could, and ruin that person’s second life rep before they even knew what was up. should their be a ratings system? sure, but it needs to be easy to use, and resistant to abuse. who cares if you have to go look at 5 different websites… if it is worth it… why not… and face it, you wont get a refund on rating someone. so stop complaining about it.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:15 PM
I am glad to see it go to be honest…but that’s because I was born after ratings were used for something - and now, mine sit mostly empty because they don’t mean anything…which makes me look more like a losah (which of course I am)
April 12th, 2007 at 1:15 PM
The rating system has been largely disregarded by most residents since ratings bonuses and negative ratings disappeared many moons ago. Glad to see it wiped off, especially if it was causing DB load, which it no doubt was. Now if they’d just kill off the last remnants of dwell and the utterly useless popular places we might start to see some real improvement in the grid. If they give refunds for ratings, then they’d probably want to take $L back for all the ratings bonuses people used to get in their stipend.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:17 PM
Seems to me that the constant removal of useful features might just prompt someone to start up a Third Life. Would that take enough load off the Second Life servers?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:17 PM
@ 25
“this is one feature i have never used, i never figured out why i would have to pay 25L to give someone a rating.”
DITTO…
April 12th, 2007 at 1:19 PM
“Bobbyb30 Zohari Says:
April 12th, 2007 at 12:35 PM PDT
Yet another downgrade? People have spent hundreds of dollars on ratings. How are we supposed to tell at a glance if the person is a n00b or not? Whats next, hiding payment info. You people at LL really gotta get your act together!”
You’re joking right?. You need a ratings score to tell you if someones a noob?!? lol. Gimme strength.
Also add to that, some peoples high ratings shouldn’t also make you think that persons automatically good/trustworthy either. I prefer to get to know a person first before judging them on such stupid things. I dont mind the ratings going at all
April 12th, 2007 at 1:19 PM
Not Only Will Others Lose The Ability To See How Well Behaved, Skilled At Appearance And Building That I Am, They Will Also Not be Able To See How Generous I Have Been In Rating Others. The Ratings System Was Bought Into By People That Believed It MEANT Something. Now You Render It Meaningless In One Swift Judgement. I Suppose The Option To LIMIT The Inventories Of Free Accounts Wasnt Considered. Great Work. I Fail To See How This Axing Will Free Up Databases In Any Significant Way. Like The Others Here Who Feel Ripped Off By This Decision, I Ask For A FULL Refund Of The Ratings I Have Given And That Anyone Who Has Rated Me Is Given Their Money Back Etc. I Estimate You Owe Me $10,000 Lindens. Please Deposit Into My Account ASAP. :/
April 12th, 2007 at 1:20 PM
It is rather a pity that ratings will have to be removed, although I understand that some of the alternatives presented are rather more sophisticated. Perhaps consideration could be given to integrating some of these alternative ratings systems into the SL client software to mimic (a superset of) the function of the existing ratings system without impacting upon database load?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:20 PM
yea i remember “global ban lists” in counterstrike. totally bogus. Nothing but interclan trusts. oh yes trusts. lets see how that plays out. there is real money involved in SL. So to form trusts the trusts had better fully comply with the US Anti Trust laws. I suspect most of these will poof with the first cease and desist order from a judge. No it isnt so simple is it. Yes governemntal regulations will apply. We already can see that US residents are now barred from certain casinos since they are a liability to those casino operators. can’t escape the goivernment so don’t bother starting a system to provide services to SL unless you have a good lawyer perform the due diligence to make sure you are not going to be in trouble. See most things like this are started in good faith by ignorant people. Ignorance of the Law is not a valid defense in court.
If you are sending us to slpopularplaces.com then i fully expect to see the popular places tab and the all tab removed from the UI to eliminate the common abuses by we all know who.
And you owe us all the refund for all ratings given from day one. some people have given over 400 ratings. 400 ratings is L$10,000 or $37.00 USD. Yes it all adds up to a huge amount of US Dollars the Lindens will owe and i don’t think that is properly covered (CYA) in the TOS that they can have taken money for a service and then yank it and not owe a full refund. In this case something was paid for and has been present and is indeed used albeit somewhat questionable.
Yes a full refund or a settlement (establishing a precedent) will be in order.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:21 PM
For those people who are asking about refunds, have you forgotten that the cost has changed over the years? The people who have ratings in the hundreds tell me that it used to be L$5 (or so) per rating. How are you going to refund them fairly, and without breaking the bank? (and since they’re “Elders” they are usually financially fairly well off to still be in SL — so a L$25,000 refund doesn’t usually mean much to people like them who are paying for multiple islands etc).
/me thinks it will be all too hard, and that section of our profiles will “just disappear”…
April 12th, 2007 at 1:22 PM
Not about the raitings but about the transaction history page which without warning magicly changed into a format that is so wrong to read its not even funny. May i ask what is the point? All the detailed info like time and who paid/paid to is bunched together like a pair of socks in a sock draw. At least give “time” it’s own column for easy scanning pretty please
April 12th, 2007 at 1:22 PM
I agree with Temple Penguin. If you’re depreciating this function, you should give us a refund on the points we’ve given out, both positive AND negative over the life of this product.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:23 PM
Why not just make rating free? that would massively reduce the load on the server & get ppl back into it ( especially if you put back negs ) It’s a far better way of assessing a person’s integrity than whther they have paid or not
April 12th, 2007 at 1:24 PM
LL wont even purge members that havnt touched SL for over a year … and you all think LL will give you a refund?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:24 PM
I don’t use this feature and have never found it useful. I agree with the cost-effectiveness (cost as in server load) being fairly low.
As far as refunding your money, as a member of a continually progressing and developing community, you shouldn’t spend a single dime that you need a “future unpromised returns” guarantee on. If LL were to fix the system-skirt issue (which they could do without rendering all existing skirts useless) would you whine and complain and want a refund on all of the crappy butt-ballooning skirts you have in your inventory?
I want to state that the above does NOT apply to LL errors that fail to render services-as-promised (such as the errors re: classified ads). I have yet to get my $81,000L back for that.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:26 PM
First ratings were L$ 1.. there were positive and negative ratings too.
Then, ratings were raised to L$ 25 (pricey!), and negative ratings were cleared.
Now positive ratings will be cleared, too… all those years’ of work down the drain.
I vote for refunds, too!
April 12th, 2007 at 1:27 PM
how about a ratings system to rate Linden labs. If they have lousy ratings then the entire staff and executives must resign and have their personal assets auctioned off to pay back for what they have done. Makes as much sense as many other things around here lol…
Can’t creat objects parcel full when parcel has nothing on it etc etc. sl doesnt work very often anymore. Actually it only works properly when under 25K users are online. So they need to not bother limiting by account types. they need to just slam the freakin door shut at 25K users. And openly admit they lied about the 100K user concurrency support while they were fishing for investors. hmmm bet there are some laws that apply there.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:27 PM
refund my money please.
you want to cut this feature out of sl?
give me my money back then and i wont mind at all!
BUT if i dont get a refund?
then you have just ripped me off!
i MIND that!
hmmmmmmmm
April 12th, 2007 at 1:29 PM
User = Cash Cow?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:29 PM
@alphaTest3:
“How are you going to refund them fairly, and without breaking the bank?”
Lindens are selling L$ 200 million per month out of thin air nowdays. What’s a few million more as rating refunds?
April 12th, 2007 at 1:31 PM
[...] to Jeska over on the official blog ratings are going to go in Beta, and thus, presumably, their days are numbered in the main grid [...]
April 12th, 2007 at 1:32 PM
Refund Please
April 12th, 2007 at 1:33 PM
very true Zonax. there is no basis for Linden currency. it isnt backed up by gold or nukes. so may as well print it off and refund us so we can go spend it and help keep the economy flowing out to the 150 or so that are taking $5000+ USD a month out of SL.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:37 PM
Glad it’s going. I remember the rating parties that used to happen; couple people get together and give each other ratings till you have an avie with 100+ in all catogories and less than a day old
Then there was the rating blackmail - find a new avie and give negative rates then tell them they have to pay you L$100 per point to remove them. Many promising builders, designers, and scripters were lost this way.
Besides I haven’t looked at a rating since the first week and happened to notice the one week old avie with over 1000 rates total, now I just say hi to people and judge them on what they say not what the rest of the mob thinks of them.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:38 PM
First thought: Wow that’s stupid.
Second thought: MONEY BACK.
Third thought: database load.. LMAO, that’s what you said for everything else, seems things are only getting WORSE.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:39 PM
Hey there, this is MikeRP Mapp just one of the many folks from the RatePoint crew. I wanted to put it out there, that if anyone has any specific questions about RatePoint and the rating services we provide, please feel free to reach out to anyone of us at Ratepoint Island. We love to get feedback and to be honest, the more the better. We encourage anyone interested to give it a try, if you like it (or not) let us know… You can reach us at slsupport@ratepoint.com, or use the feedback are of our site, secondlife.ratepoint.com.
As far as the existing (or not existing soon…) Linden rating system, I would say they have done a good job, but as they said this type of system can be tough to maintain etc. This being a primary focus of ours, we are always putting more resources etc in place to grow as needed. Sorry, we can’t do much about the Lindens some of you are looking for, but I can tell you that the RatePoint rating services won’t cost you any Lindens, if this helps. We are trying to do everything we can to benefit all Residents as much as we can, so providing this open and hopefully enjoyable service is something we hope anyone interested in ratings will appreciate.
Always open, ping me in world if you have any questions. Thx.
- MikeRP
April 12th, 2007 at 1:48 PM
I never thought the ratings meant much and probably were abused in some cases. Imho, most newbies with small L$ balances aren’t going to waste L$25 to rate anybody or anything (I’ll bet most of them don’t even know they have a profile).
If it’s a drain on SL resources, then dropping it is a good thing. As for refunds on previous ratings given, we all agreed to that EULA (if you haven’t read it yet, nows a good time to do so) that basically gave LL the right to do anything they want with SL and not be responsible for anything the users may have lost due to any changes - intentional or otherwise.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:51 PM
REFUND OUR MONEY!
Its not fair to everyone who paid and used ratings for it to go away, you either keep it as is or refund the people, or it will be a scam on LL’s part.
They keep taking things away!!
forums-ratings-casinos-????
April 12th, 2007 at 1:52 PM
two words:
MONEY BACK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
April 12th, 2007 at 1:53 PM
Btw, If you haven’t noticed, there’s way more newbies now than there used to be - and there’s only going to be more and more of them as time goes on… Especially if LL wants to have hundreds of thousands to millions logged in.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:54 PM
@#45
If they keep doing what they want to do, people will just quit.
They don’t understand that we keep SL running too.
(p.s: i heard there is a new game in development kinda like sl)
April 12th, 2007 at 1:55 PM
hmm, providing a service for money (in this case L$) and then suddenly pulling that service? where i live, that’s illegal.
i think LL better think of some kind of settlement or replacement-service or we could see the 1st class act against LL.
and no, i certainly do not wish for that to happen. i still like SL and i still like LL.
April 12th, 2007 at 1:59 PM
*blinks* Well, it’s not like I ever paid attention to the rating systems. I came into the game when they were still being ‘gamed’ for the L. I, sadly, had to consider them as useless for actual information, because people would pay some people the amount of the vote to vote for THEM.
I never got back into looking at them. I usually look at the image they display, check their info and maybe their picks. *shrug* My eyes and mind just skipped right over ratings.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:00 PM
So you’re effectively exchanginging a Linden Labs controlled native rating system by a number of incompatible and privately owned, uncontrolled in-game scripts? That won’t impact performance at all.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:03 PM
1st the search for people are gone (i wish they would bring it back How do we know if a Linden is on?) 2nd The Rating (how do we supossed to know how popular we are, were you guys ever popular back in High school? LOL) Please Keep The Rating If So Lower The Payrate to 10 L$ just like everything else (25 L$ is a bit too much) if it goes please Refund us….3rd seems SL is getting smaller with searches ETC….
April 12th, 2007 at 2:05 PM
@Whiners who want their $L back:
Read the TOS - they owe you squat. Also, if they got into this (I mentioned this before) they’d need to factor in the ratings bonus that used to multiply stipends too and take that back from you wouldn’t they? I don’t recall a refund on Negative ratings, so, sorry folks, but that fiction is gone. I used to give ratings back in the day, and I spent a bit, on it, but I haven’t looked seriously at a rating in eons.
It’s over, get on w/ your life.
Now on to Pop. Places and the rest of the dwell monster.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:08 PM
I don’t get why this is a big database hit. How much overhead did it take to store the URL of a residents web page, even if they didn’t supply one? I would rather that go away than ratings.
Ratings are just 4 numbers, no?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:14 PM
@54 “Read the TOS - they owe you squat”
that remains to be seen. in most countries statements and “agreements” in a contract or in this case a TOS that are contradictory to the law hold no value.
a “no responsibility” clause in a contract is very often disputable.
i don’t know enough about law to be certain, but i suggest LL better put their lawyers to work to make sure what they want to do is legal.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:17 PM
Yep Like most ppl. I ve been here snice 2004 and I with the mob. Money Back! Please.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:18 PM
@31 Milo Bellow
You have mad skillz, Milo. I’d rate you again if I could.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:19 PM
Mmmm, too much sturm and drung over this one. Ratings have had no real meaning, except as a L$ sink for LL in the year that I have been a member. I don’t trust the ratings numbers anyway, based on the history of the system I have heard, and the way it was abused by residents.
No current value, little historical value, load on the database… let it go folks.
Refunds! Hah! Read the TOS folks, they could shut down Second Life tomorrow and not owe you a L$. Even if you have PAID IN ADVANCE for an annual premium membership. So what makes you think they are going to refund L$ sunk waaaaay back in history?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:19 PM
I’ve only been around a few months, but I have never paid much attention to the ratings system.
I evaluate people by what they put in their profile and how they behave.
Very early on I heard a guy ask several people to trade ratings with him, ‘I’ll rate you, if you rate me’ kind of thing. Since then, I’ve seen other people do that too.
I’ve just never bothered with it.
Don’t see the point, seems it’s mostly people trading ratings or rating their friends.
This business about refunds and lawsuits is a bit much I think.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:22 PM
Ok I knew this was coming ever since LL stopped giving out bonuses with our stipends every week. It was even more clear when they removed the “negative” ratings from this list, and now it’s been totally useless ever since.
So while we are on the subject of profiles, why is it that under 1st life we are given a large text field that only holds 250 characters which isn’t even enough to fill more than half of that field; yet under 2nd life we have a half-sized (4 line) text field that holds 500 characters, what we have to scroll though like 3 times to read it all? What’s up with that? hopefully with the removal of the ratings list, there you’ll give us more room (maybe 1000ch?) for 2nd life “about:” text field.
And while I’m on this subject about profiles, can we get word-wrapping for “my notes” tab please?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:22 PM
I’m very glad to see ratings go. I always thought it was a silly “game” kind of thing that had no place in SL. People are people. We don’t carry tags around in RL with a rating, and I don’t think we should in SL, either. I have no interest in the third-party ratings schemes, and I’m very glad LL is yanking this superfluous feature from the SL codebase.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:23 PM
The ‘ratings system’ was paid for and used in the past - everyone was able to use this service by observation whether they paid for it or not. Therefore the rating system was delivered and used. You would have to take back all the observations and decisions based on those observations if $L were returned. Clearly that is nonsense, added to the fact that you cannot promise a service (unless your God) forever - change in SL as in RL is inevitable
April 12th, 2007 at 2:23 PM
I don’t quite see the need for refunds, to be honest. Nobody was forcing you to rate anyone.
You don’t go into a store, buy something, decide you don’t like it 6 months later and demand a refund do you?
I never used the rating system, or took any notice of it. I saw how easily it was gamed in Sims Online (people used to pay you to make them a friend to get up the ‘most popular’ list) and no doubt it was just as useless in SL.
Broccoli
April 12th, 2007 at 2:23 PM
I never used ratings because only avatars from before 2005 really ever used it. It it increases the lag, lets get rid of it.
I do use a counter from SLCounters.com to look at the popularity of places in Second Life, which is based on the number of unique visitors instead of some system only a few users make use of.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:25 PM
Claiming it’s to reduce load sounds nice, but really. Why not purge in-actives? That sure would reduce load. Forget about the marketing…ignore the billion registered user crap. Everyone else does. It’s a complete and well known joke. A lot of media questions that number. What is the point? To fool someone? Who are we kidding? Focus on reality and things will sell themselves.
Why not make “start group chat session” and “contribute to group chat session”, group options? This will reduce IM spam greatly. Some large groups send out over 1000 IMs when someone spams the channel for a TP. A clear and easy case for clean up. (semi on topic, fix the f’n group notices that i have not been able to send SINCE LAST YEAR. thanks!)
Pointing to the outside sites for rating is well, a joke. Maybe we should point to some complete outside Platform we can use instead of SL. That oughta reduce the load.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:27 PM
weeeeee… mob rules! xD how about a new rating for KILLS and SIM Crashed???
April 12th, 2007 at 2:30 PM
So all the lindens I’ve spent rating people will be for nothing?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:33 PM
Why is SL full of a bunch of immature babies? I think you all should go back to the teen grid where you belong and leave the main grid to the grown-ups. You all need to stop with your threats of class actions and such, Linden Labs is doing a great thing, they are doing their best to continue a great thing, and all of you nay-saysers, you just need to go to haiche eeeee! dubble hawkee stik.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:34 PM
LL…what are you doing to replace ratings as a $L sink? Reduce the load…fine, but you are taking away an important sink. It’s not a huge one but given all the $L coming into SL especially through the $L that you are selling, you need every little sink you can get.
I’ll tell ya I used to spend a lot more than $25 L on ratings when they were only $1L a piece. I easily spent $75-100L on ratings at an event, started lots of conversations, and made a lot of people feel good.
someone above asked how are we supposed to tell if someone is a noob? Check the avie creation date. Might be an alt, but ratings still wouldn’t tell you that or not.
I agree they are not effective for their intended purpose as a reputation guage, but they are effective as a $L sink….if you take them away, please replace them with some other $L sink or stop selling $L
April 12th, 2007 at 2:36 PM
I think rateings are good as they are an indication of what sort of avatar u deal with, every rateing over 10 points shows u not dealing to a complete a**ho*e
April 12th, 2007 at 2:37 PM
Taking the knowledgebase off the server and placing it on a separate server under a separate domain name might be a wiser choice.
I really don’t care who created and/or edited the knowledgebase articles or how many ratings a particular article has and I really don’t think anyone else cares either. It seems to me that if an article is in the knowledgebase, it should contain the proper information PERIOD. There should be no reason to generate load with a ratings system.
You could then make use of a proper boolean search engine since the load would now placed elsewhere. Residents could learn how to use Second Life even when the Second Life web site and grid go down as well.
This is a POSITIVE solution that should have been addressed long ago.
Removing features that people like AND actually work just fine is a step backwards. This particular idea gets tossed in the NEGATIVE pile.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Yeah… um after I give out so many ratings why not get that back if you make them worthless?
April 12th, 2007 at 2:43 PM
@44
“Third thought: database load.. LMAO, that’s what you said for everything else, seems things are only getting WORSE.”
I don’t agree, I think things are improving overall recently. Look how high the number of concurrent users has gotten.
Yes during peak times there are problems, but not long ago SL would not have been able to support this many users at all.
The new release seems to work much better than the old one too.
And don’t come back with a rant about how much better SL would be without free accounts…too many people…etc…this world is growing and changing - and was always meant to.
That’s what makes it so interesting.
~~~~~~~~
The rest is just general ranting lol:
For the record, I have a premium account and own land, but I do not think that gives me more rights than anyone else.
Once you consider the stipend and the annual payment, the amount of money I pay for having a premium account is laughable. Why on earth would less than $2 a month make me better than someone else???
Ok, I do pay land tier, but before I upgraded to premium, I paid rent, so it’s not really much different than that.
So what if people are new or have ‘free’ accounts? Why pick on them over $2??? That just seems silly and selfish to me .We are all equal here…as we should be.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:43 PM
Well, I used rating to rate people I know and trust and became really friends. If that´s not the majority use, and if that will help out the health of the system, and if in-world rating would be a good replacement, ok… I´m fine with removal… the only thing I´m not quite comfortable with, is the fact rating was charged, in order to give credibility, which I completly understood and agreed with. I think before removal, it will be worth investigating a way to replace the current rating to the in-world whatever system it becomes, or as many mentioned, give refunds, or at least some sort of credit/bonus.
I would love to hear from Linden their thoughts…
Bye bye… Niky…
April 12th, 2007 at 2:44 PM
Of course the rating system is hokey. Sure the ratings do not reliably reflect someone’s character. They are obviously for entertainment purposes only. But the point is that we paid money for the entertaiment value of points and it would be rude for you to steal back what we paid for without reimbursing us.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:44 PM
Yes please, let’s have a refund! It should be pretty trivial to work out how much each of us has paid for ratings, and reimbursing it seems only fair.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:45 PM
I have a better idea ok. Make the rating system better! Get better servers to reduce database load. Instead of constantly taking from us, give us a reason to stay, and keep what we have. First we lose in world transaction history, which was a major no no. Now we have no ratings. Well linden labs needs to stop being cheap and just get better servers for all the old outdated ones they’ve had since second life has started! Otherwise i want every last linden of my spent money back! NOW!
April 12th, 2007 at 2:47 PM
the rating systems is just bs, like its not hard to get ure 50 freinds to to excahnge rates etc?? or even just ask random people to exchange rates… real has no use now. so good call.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:48 PM
hmmmm….well seems SL has been running so bad last week real real bad, will working on changing the ratings sytem fix this?
If not can all this stuff, and get to work on these network problems or whatever they are…..problem resolved…no lose bandaid slapped on or is swept under the bed.
Come on…..
April 12th, 2007 at 2:51 PM
how about search that works? and teleports. yea i think LL needs to begin paying penalties to the customers as an incentive for them to do better. And the penalties need to be taken directly from the payroll of the entire company. in direct proportaion to total compensation and share values. so the top end with fictitious salaries still have to pay out of share assets their fair shares of the penalties. light a fire under them rear ends to get it right. if they can’t afford to be paid nothing for providing nothing then time to move on and let someone that cares do the job.
April 12th, 2007 at 2:51 PM
Off Topic: Might wanna get out a stable release???? Search down and Inventory getting swallowed….
April 12th, 2007 at 2:52 PM
@75 YEP here it comes again 36k people NO MONEY NO TP NO SEARCH……….BLAH BLAH BLAH
April 12th, 2007 at 2:52 PM
I am sitting here reading these laughing my head off, but then again I only got about 5 stars and never saw the point of wasting money. That makes me an ‘a**ho*e’ ? lol.
Just tell the person that you love them and give them a hug, that would make me feal much better than any rating!
April 12th, 2007 at 2:53 PM
HELL YEAH!!!!!…give ‘em the heave ho….klets have some stability back!!!wooohooo…also….can you see fit to give me my clothes back….am butt naked in world at the moment!!!lol
April 12th, 2007 at 2:56 PM
No logging in possible at the moment
April 12th, 2007 at 2:57 PM
Shiny! I get all the $25/rating I’ve given over the last few months back? Woohoo!!! Sweet!
April 12th, 2007 at 2:58 PM
Once again Linden Labs offers a BAND-AID solution to the server-database problem.
I can imagine the developement team meeting on this one.. “Maybe if we take away ratings we can stabilize the grid”
“Try It… We can’t stop the Alts and Free accounts that are using 90% of our resources but this might help!”
“But most of those with Ratings are long standing paying members!!!”
“Yeah well too bad.. They cry and complain but they keep paying the ttier!”
Keep it up LL.. how many salaries do the ALT accounts Pay? And my stipend doesn’t cover the cost of K-Y!
April 12th, 2007 at 2:59 PM
[...] my opinion, this post by Linden Lab is a terrible disservice to the Second Life community. While Jesika Linden claims: As [...]
April 12th, 2007 at 3:01 PM
its cool…clothes are back…my neighbors thank you sl!!!!
April 12th, 2007 at 3:02 PM
Oh Yeah.. What happend to limiting log in to Paid Accounts when the grid is unstable?
Has this ever been implemented or was that just another empty promise meant to quiet the people who pay your salaries?
April 12th, 2007 at 3:03 PM
an analysis of our database load shows that clothes and avis are a major factor. clothes are really of little use. for avis, go to there.com.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:04 PM
G’day Jeska
I have used the ratings, to let newbies know when their behaviour has been good - to give them a $25 / $50 / $75 bonus.
I realise the ratings system has been abused, but you can tell when that’s happened - ratings over 100 for any one that is less than 6 months inworld… they would have to be super impressive in the area of their high ratings and you can tell / test this simply by chatting to them.
I use the ratings to see what area someone has more strength in - great builders have a higher build rating than they do for their appearance rating for example.
As for the database load (for those of you who have posted above) please re-read and UNDERSTAND what is being said here:
“…we found that the database resources required to maintain the ratings system were far greater than its utility and popularity…”
This statement doesn’t say it’s a huge database load, it simple states the load is greater than the usefulness.
If it goes, it goes. I use it, but this is an ever changing world.
Shrugs
Alex
April 12th, 2007 at 3:04 PM
yep, here too.. NO MONEY NO TP NO SEARCH………
April 12th, 2007 at 3:06 PM
I have mixed feelings. I rank among the “newer” who never saw the glory days of rankings. However I still felt rather pleased on the rare occasions that people (i.e. not people I knew) went to the trouble and expense to rank me. Ah well.
I do find it rather offensive that a blacklist would be included among the suggested alternative methods. Shame on you Lindens! Blacklists= bad.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:06 PM
I wish these weren’t going away; I thought they had some merit.
Couldn’t they be placed on a separate tab and dynamically query the DB only when that tab was opened? I bet that would cut down on a lot of DB overhead.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:09 PM
excuse the f*^k out of me but who asked to bring rl identities into sl? what a crock of bs.
NOBODY ASKED FOR IT SO STOP WORKING ON IT OR TELL US WHY YOU ARE DOING THE WORK INSTEAD OF WORK THAT NEEDS TO BE DONE.
PLEASE SELL OUT TO COMMERCIAL COMPANY SO ACTUAL RESOURCE MANAGEMENT CAN BE BROUGHT TO BEAR ON THIS AND THE PEOPLE THERE NOW CAN HIT THE UNEMPLOYMENT LINE BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT WORTH ANYTHING TO ANYONE.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:14 PM
Jeska missed mention of Slicr, which is a new inworld rating, searching and tagging hud. Website at http://www.slicr.net, but best picked up at Tipsico (68,208,128)
April 12th, 2007 at 3:16 PM
Alright, I dont think we should be reimbursed, because it would be way too complicated and could lower the value of the Linden Dollar. 25L is like pocket change these days. What is it like 10 cents?
April 12th, 2007 at 3:17 PM
Folks, I know you all think you deserve a refund, but think about this: that kind of huge influx of money across the board would severely devalue the linden due to inflation. The refund would be worthless.
April 12th, 2007 at 3:17 PM
I think ratings are a nice way to pat someone one the back for actions or activities that are beneficial or in some other