Advertising Policy Changes
Thursday, April 5th, 2007 at 7:01 PM by: Robin LindenWe have recently received an increasing number of questions about simulated casinos in Second Life. Despite reports to the contrary, we know of no law enforcement agency that has opened an investigation into gambling in Second Life.
It has been a basic tenet of Second Life that all Residents are legally responsible for their own activities and for complying with the laws of the local jurisdiction in which they reside. However, given the ambiguities of the issues, Linden Lab has decided that we will not accept any classified ads, place listings, or event listings that appear to relate to simulated casino activity.
Linden Lab is committed to keeping Second Life a place of openness and opportunity. We plan to implement features that will enable Residents to optionally confirm aspects of each other’s identity, including age and jurisdictions. Hopefully, these features will help Residents as they conform to their own local laws. For our part, we will continue to evaluate these issues, including where appropriate by reaching out to law enforcement, and by working toward solutions that keep our Residents’ experiences safe and legal.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:06 PM
Wow… I read a news report on this just this afternoon. I’m going to go search for casinos now
Seriously.. I feel for those with a lot invested into opening one of these. I REALLY hope the fed doesn’t go after the escorts next - if that happens, the main grid and the teen grid might as well be the SAME grid.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:08 PM
FINALLY! Those lag-causing bastards are going DOWNNNNNN!!!
April 5th, 2007 at 7:09 PM
Anything related? Can you defined related before you start deleting advertisements … ie, give us a chance to make our ads comply rather than have you guys do it?
April 5th, 2007 at 7:10 PM
EbayII
April 5th, 2007 at 7:16 PM
Could you expand on this?
“We plan to implement features that will enable Residents to optionally confirm aspects of each other’s identity, including age and jurisdictions.”
What other ‘aspects’ do you have in mind?
April 5th, 2007 at 7:25 PM
Seen this coming a mile away! There is aritcles all over the net right now on the money going through SL. Its going to start getting bad I think…. Some major changes coming I bet.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:25 PM
/me shakes head …and slowly but surely, day by day…..it dies
April 5th, 2007 at 7:27 PM
Casino lag forced me out of my previous region. SL would be much improved by a reduction in their number. Limiting advertising may force them to develop their own off SL environment. Smart move Lindens!
April 5th, 2007 at 7:27 PM
While well intended, don’t get too excited — this will make little difference. Instead we will have clubs with gambling devices in them, and “game locations”. Won’t change a thing; in fact the only result will be the invention of a whole new coded language for these things.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:32 PM
Man is this place wondering from the vision of Stephensons novel, that gave it breath. Oh well I guess that shouldn’t be supprising in a world that standing on any hope, belief or value, is seen as unbending and villafied as intolerent, hey I have a better Idea Get SL out of the United states, cause the way things are looking …. the next “Curtain” if its not already will be going up there….. I wonder what they’ll call it the Electronic curtain ?
April 5th, 2007 at 7:34 PM
If anything, this should spur more support for user-hosted sims and the OpenSim project.
http://openmetaverse.org/wiki/OpenSim
April 5th, 2007 at 7:35 PM
Well it was fun while it lasted. Welcome to the new and improved “Second Real Life” brought to you by - The United States government. Now featuring death and taxes! Coming next month - religious zealots and PG land for ALL.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:37 PM
This won’t kill casinos. 3rd parties can still take their advertisements. More worrying would be a policy change involving Linder, cash-outs.
Not being persecuted by the Fed is certainly a legit concern.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:38 PM
Yay! Thanks, LL!
April 5th, 2007 at 7:38 PM
While I think casinos are a blight on the grid, this is a very slippery slope you guys are heading down. First it was the ageplayers, now casinos, and #1’s point about escorts is another good one. All of these things suck and I’d be happy to see them go, but I worry that SL is going to turn into a nanny state and that “Your world, your imagination” will be qualified by “…so long as you don’t imagine breaking any local blue laws or make anything that offends any of the 100000 other cultures on this planet.”
I won’t try to argue that we have a right to it, but freedom of expression and engaging in fantasies that you’re unable to in real life seem to be SL’s main draws. I mean, I’m fine as long as you don’t penalize me for having a geriatric midget AV, break the creation tools completely or outlaw the sale of L$, but for a lot of people gambling and sex with children are what keep them paying you for your Monopoly money.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:38 PM
Well it’s a step in the right direction, but let’s drop the euphemisms. It is not simulated casinos because they are gambling with Linden’s and everyone knows it. In Las Vegas you buy chips to gamble and cash out later, well, assuming you have anything left to cash out, lol. Illegal? Ask the fed’s where sl is based - in the US, and the involved state and local jurisdictions.
Am i against it on principle? Not really, if people are silly enough to part with their money for nothing, that is their business. Like most SL’ers I would be happy to see them go because of the fact that casinos ruin sims. An optimal solution? Ban camping for pay. You make sims tolerable, and improve the performance of the entire grid in one simple move. By the way Robin, just because “we know of no law enforcement agency that has opened an investigation into gambling in Second Life” of course only means you have not been notified of such activities, as I’m sure you are aware.
The Linden response seems consistent with the recently issued statement on age-play in SL, a far more serious issue. Rather than banning an activity they know they have risk exposure to, they ban some avenues of active promotion. Probably a flawed and inadequate response in both cases from a liability perspective.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:40 PM
And so it begins! First with ageplay, now with casinos.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:41 PM
I can forsee lots of money leaving SL now,,,do you know how many people have invested HUGE amounts of money into their casinos?
I find this completely stupid of SL without any ruling from any enforcing agency…to me, its merely censorship. Isnt that why we have a checkbox to list whether or not your listing is MATURE?????
April 5th, 2007 at 7:44 PM
Out of all the problems going on, this update is finally something I can appreciate.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:47 PM
Only Solution for SL, move the servers out of the police state (USA) and make reglight sims, where gamgling and “escort will be permitted. SL is a world of its own and does not “belong” country.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:48 PM
I was really glad to find SL. I thought finally a place you could live free in fantasy even though you couldn’t live that way in the former Republic. I wish people really knew who was in charge in this country(USA). The false pretense of freedom at least keeps you from becoming insane with the knowledge that, yes we are slaves.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:49 PM
I, for one, applaud this though I also see it as a slippery slope. However, to get from point A to point B - it is sometimes necessary to traverse a slippery slope.
As far as advertisers - how about those ad farms? And the use of corporate trademarks without permission?
This is a multinational virtual world. While some may appreciate the bukkake twins spinning out of control or escort ads being shown next to a popular texture shop’s ad (which I am told is no longer approved to be used), I really have to wonder if this is such a slippery slope. When people are leaving areas because of fields of spinning ads, there is a need to address it since it negatively impacts the experience of some users while rewarding the business school dropouts who consider them a viable business model. No one wants to be near them, and the bukkake twins leave a bad taste in other people’s mouths (pun unintentional. really).
If people cannot play well together, that is where rules are created. And it is the minority of people in SL who utilize such business models which forces these rules upon us. Should they be more… scrupulous… they probably wouldn’t be an issue. But they aren’t, so they are.
Casinos are a good stage one. Zone them somewhere else. And anyone who actually wants to *find* something should get the 20 minute lesson on how to use the Search Button instead of raping the landscape.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:51 PM
While I think casinos are a blight on the grid, this is a very slippery slope you guys are heading down. First it was the ageplayers, now casinos, and #1’s point about escorts is another good one. All of these things suck and I’d be happy to see them go, but I worry that SL is going to turn into a nanny state and that “Your world, your imagination” will be qualified by “…so long as you don’t imagine breaking any local blue laws or make anything that offends any of the 100000 other cultures on this planet.”
^^^ totally ditto. Glad to see you guys enabled comments again.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:51 PM
How will they confirm age and jurisdiction? Make you AV carry and ID card? Everybody is supposed to be 18+ on the adult grid. Any systym to allow residents to confirm age and jurisitdiction will not work unless the Lindens get rid of the free accounts.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:51 PM
If governments limit this. I will be sad. There is no place untouchable by greed and arbitrary placement of authority.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:53 PM
me and my partner just opend a larg casino, and we invested a lot money for this.
and its not a casino that causes anybody lag, or ruins sims, because this casino needs a sim for its own. and there will be no camping at all here.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:53 PM
[...] now casinos are taking a hit. No in-world advertising allowed in search. While the SL economy does not need those casinos to [...]
April 5th, 2007 at 7:55 PM
For every action there is a reaction..
Can forsee a tenfold increase in the amout of tacky and tasteless spinning advertising signs for casino’s popping up everywhere now along with the number of zombie casino landmark spammers in public places *sigh*..
April 5th, 2007 at 7:57 PM
real nice Lindens,,you will still allow people to play a role of a pedefile, but not allow listing casinos,,,thats &^#$%*& up
April 5th, 2007 at 7:57 PM
That sucks.
“all Residents are legally responsible for their own activities and for complying with the laws..” BUT “…..Linden Lab has decided that we will not accept any classified ads, place listings, or event listings that appear to relate to simulated casino activity.”
Dang. what`s going to dissolve next?
April 5th, 2007 at 7:58 PM
Amazing how many people bad mouth perfectly legal businesses. But like the real world, you can’t have everything the way you want it. This policy change does nothing. If anything, it will force casino to be more creative about their business fronts.
Lastly, for all you judges out there, this is a free world. Unless something specifically violates LL rules, EVERYTHING IS LEGAL. I cant believe someone said escorts outlawed next - cyber sex illegal? Sorry, but your an idiot.
April 5th, 2007 at 7:59 PM
Freedom of speach will be the next thing @ 24
April 5th, 2007 at 7:59 PM
Er, that should have read..
“all Residents are legally responsible for their own activities and for complying with the laws of the local jurisdiction in which they reside. ” ***
I think if a state allows it, they should be allowed to advertise it.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:01 PM
I think I can understand why Linden Labs has done this, and it seems likely to me that were I in their position I would have done the same.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:04 PM
Ok, here is my view
Yes casinos cause lots of lag, but theres a bigger picture here.
Right now casinos are in the spot light whats next taxes on items sold. I agree there needs to be some regulations in place for casino’s but deleting them all together( if this goes that far) is wrong. My question to you….What is next?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:05 PM
This certainly stirs up the complete SL world, because it affects everyone at some level. Either because they are a casino owner, advertiser, player or neighbor. Some like them, others don’t.
However, as far as I’m concerned, I’ve had no trouble with anyone so far and when at first neighbors complained, I took action to deal with their concerns and now we get along just fine.
The advertising networks will take a dip but recover. The casino’s will take a dip but recover, and the economy will take a dip and recover. Changes are always going to happen, and one needs to adapt to survive. I’m not pleased with the new rules (especially not after recent investments that filled LL’s pockets for sure) but will adapt to them.
I’m sure glad I don’t run a casino. I run an entertainment center where people can play and entertain themselves. Everyone has a good time and we all walk away happy.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:06 PM
EVIL ROBOT RULES. IM GOOD FREINDS WITH PRESIDENT BUSH, DONT WORRY ILL GET HIS WHOLE THING SORTED OUT BY DINNER TIME.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:08 PM
dont see why LL banning stuff but SL start turning in to a VR america copy of the real life
April 5th, 2007 at 8:09 PM
Hard to sympathise with casinos.
Sad to see Lindens crumpling before the suits without even a whimper. When will someone somewhere show some courage?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:09 PM
In my opinion, all this is going to do is increase the number of huge in-game advertising banners which hand out landmarks or (the worst kind) whisper, say or even shout their wares to anyone unfortunate enough to be in range.
If you’re going to do this, you have to do it properly. It’s no good banning classifieds and then saying “We don’t interfere with what residents do on their land” because casino owners will simply buy more and more ads that fit into those dreadful 16 sq m land plots you should never have left around in the first place. The net result will be you having to make a choice between letting these ads do the same job you’re trying to stop with classifieds, or breaking your own rule about what residents do on their land in order to limit the number of spinning, flashing casino ads.
Either way, what you’ve just decreed isn’t going to work, because it’s only going at best halfway towards solving the problem.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:10 PM
“Your World, Your Imagination..”
What a load of crockery!
please edit to.. “Our world, you stfu and pay your monthly fees, we pwm you”
April 5th, 2007 at 8:10 PM
Maybe LL should state exactly what is considered simulated gambling before trying to enforce this ruling. Does this include say, events where L prizes are offered? Prize balls? Does this include games like Slingo and Tringo?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:12 PM
How come the FBI comes and worries about casinos but the child pornography on SL still runs rampant? Is it because the FBI wants their cut of $L??
April 5th, 2007 at 8:13 PM
I’m in fear that repeated “taking away” of users advertising and/or content, that we’re not going to have much more to work with. I dont own a casino but i used to. The game creators I’m sure will be furious along with all casino owners. It’s a tough call on this, and i dont know what the outcome is going to be, but either way it’s not a good sign. Taking away again if something is’nt working out, we’re eventually just going to be standing on empty sims waving blankly at each other lol I’ve been in game for almost 3 years and have seen a steady flow of things being taken away. Who knows it might be for the best, but that’s my opinion on the whole thing xP
April 5th, 2007 at 8:13 PM
ok, heres what doesnt make sense. Ive heard talke about childplay porn/prostitution and all that on SL which is illegal anywhere in RL. But ya wanna crack down gambling even though an investigation isnt going on. Well, think about it. I see no sense in that. Except for more ******* politics.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:14 PM
Guys, you must be crazy ! Next your government will ask for some land to put virtual nuclear bombs in order to prevent attacks from virtual terrorists.
Since technically is very easy to track casinos in the sim, AND the amount of money that is played in casinos i don’t see any reason to censor (or worst, stop) these activities… With the same logic, selling & buying things without paying VAT is also illegal… Will you stop the ad’s of all the stores in-world also ?
I dont go to casinos, neither in RL nor in SL. But what i really hate is censorship.
L.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:14 PM
I think there maybe some legal issues letting possible illegal activity be advertised in their advertising system. LL could be considered an abettor. If LL knows gambling (or any other thing) is illegal and they let them advertise on their systems knowing they are illegal then they lose the “what they do in SL is their responsibility” stance.
Sure it is a virtual world but that doesn’t make it above the RL world laws.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:17 PM
I said that to quick i mean to say you allow childplay porn ads and not casino ads
Hmm,
April 5th, 2007 at 8:21 PM
Linden Labs has created the tools and the means to use the software in the most interconnected way. It’s like coming down on FTP because of piracy issues, the exact same nonsense. The person can still be responsible for what they do, and tracked, and LL not be considered an “abettor”.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:21 PM
@ post 14 BLUE LAWS theres a blast from the past.
Have not seen that since the 70’s in Texas
April 5th, 2007 at 8:21 PM
they cannot ban casino, they are not responsible for residents action, the only thing they do is not listing up casino advertisement as one of their adv agency system
it is only to save their ass.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:22 PM
Will clarification on this new advertising policy be given? “Related to simulated casino activity” is extremely vague. Does it apply to slingo? Game shows? How about giving us a list of restricted words? Also, do advertisements in profiles count?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:24 PM
I agree it would help the Lindens if they moved this operation out of the United States. U.S. law is quite archaic compared to some other areas of the world, and it’s going to get more and more painful for SL to have to bend its world to all the goofy U.S. laws.
A P.S. for David: I’ve always wondered why most people in SL are fine with all the combat+murder+war roleplay, but squick over people roleplaying teen sex. Seriously, what’s worse in real life — combat+murder+war, or teen sex? Anyway, both in SL are just fake. And many of the combat roleplayers seem to have more difficulty than other groups, in understanding what real-life consent is.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:25 PM
Maybe LL should prohibit the placement of Lindex machines in casinos? IANAL, but my laymens familiarity with the law that is threatening has little to do with advertising and more to do with the question of payment processing. Having casinos with Lindex machines in them gives the appearance of LL being payment processors for online casinos. Granted, it would only appear that way to an ignorant jerkoff who jumps to conclusions, but the world is full of those.
Now would be a good time for an alternative classified system and a search mechanism of it integrated into an open source browser, that operates independent of Linden Labs.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:25 PM
@ Fuzinor (32/34)
Um, yer behind the curve. Dat went down first - but they did’t make a public announcemtn of dat policy change.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:26 PM
Quoting Raudf: “Maybe LL should state exactly what is considered simulated gambling before trying to enforce this ruling. Does this include say, events where L prizes are offered? Prize balls? Does this include games like Slingo and Tringo?”
Exactly what I was wondering. Hello, Lindens?
Tringo
Slingo
Greedy
Raffle balls????
April 5th, 2007 at 8:26 PM
Is the Lindens going to allow all aspects of a persons RL identy to be confirmed by anyone (name actual age, etc.) or just where they live (jurisdiction) and if there over 21? And how will they do that if they still allow free accounts?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:27 PM
I blame the corporations first and foremost. Them, Jack Thompson, and Hilary Clinton. Look at all the fuss they made over pixelated porn. Imagine if they came across jailbait in SL.
A traditional multi-player game like WOW relies mostly on consumers who want entertainment. Second Life However has many big businesses that have their own sims that promote rl products and issues.
For example, many candidates have virtual headquarters in SL. Nissan has a sim where they give out free Altima’s.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:28 PM
It’s about time one of the online companies actually stood up the the government and said NO!. You may have to “buy and island” so you can do what you want. The government has no jurisdiction in the virtual world and don’t let them think so. Just don’t obey them. When they come for you let us know and we will stop them. Really what are they going to do? Unless they are willing to shoot you/us then they can’t do anything.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:30 PM
This is a pretty big change. Most clubs have some gambling on the premises.
Who is Jack Thompson? I am wondering if Pikachu confused him with former Sen. Fred Thompson?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:30 PM
@32 “porn/prostitution and all that on SL which is illegal anywhere in RL.”
Not true.
Porn is legal in the U.S. and many other countries.
Prostitution is legal in a number of European countries AS WELL AS in the U.S. Come to Las Vegas and take one of the charters out the legal and license brothels in Nye County.
Just because something is illegal in YOUR neighbor, don’t think that the rest of the world agrees with you.
If something in SL violates your local laws, then stay away from it. That’s a no-brainer and all that LL originally asked.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:30 PM
Baptist controlled police states still exist. especially in Florida USA. Along with the laws like can’t buy beer after midnight, etc etc. County level governments are still racist and bigoted and, in Florida, extremely homophobic.
Casinos are unwelcome.
Casino scripts cause grid problems.
Delete the accounts that own and create them period.
Who cares about the legality? I just want them gone period along with the cancer-like mindsets that landbot grab parcels to spread casinos as fast as possible in some weird game of Go.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:30 PM
few points:
1. as has been mentioned this is a very slippery slope. I have no love for pedophiles or anything but first ageplay, then casinos, then gorean, then escorts, then something else and something else and etc etc etc.
“With the first link, a chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.” - Jean-Luc Picard
I also agree that it may be unwise for LL to start applying grid-wide restrictions like ageplay, as it could cause legal issues…
2. I think perhaps a better idea would be to expand the ratings system into a 3 tier system- PG, Mature and Explicit. This would work the same way existing ratings work, gambling etc would be ‘mature’ but all the escort services, ageplay, gorean, etc etc could go under ‘explicit’, basically explicit would allow anything that isn’t provably illegal.
3. what I WOULD like to see is more active categorization of classified ads. It is difficult to do a random search (by category with blank keyword) without getting a page full of ‘events’ that are nothing but TRINGO @ 8PM, etc type stuff that isn’t really an ‘event’. Sometimes these are mis-categorized (but not too often). I think a good solution might be to expand the search parameters, so you could for example only search for non-recurring events, or events that recur less than once per day, etc etc.
4. When is the next town hall? There hasn’t been one in a while and I haven’t been able to find any info about when the next one might be.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:32 PM
If any one saw the ABC news story about SL the alarming part the story was about taxing money made in SL.
Now theres a big headache on the way better grab a big bottle of aspirin.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:32 PM
@ Fuzinor (32/34)
Um, yer behind the curve. Dat went down first - but they did’t make a public announcemtn of dat policy change.
“Hey Marianne, do ya research and search ageplay. Then speak when you know your really right. There are ads for ageplay!” blah blah blah. Me leaves the building
April 5th, 2007 at 8:39 PM
I need to say this, and I’m sorry to all the people I’m about to offend, but it needs to be said…
This is happening in our virtual world, because too many people think they know how other people ought to live, and ought to be. Most people, when you say something like that, will nod their heads thinking about it in other people, but then when you point out how they’re guilty of it, they get all offended and justify it.
But it’s not justifiable. I don’t ageplay, I find it disturbing having been a victim of childhood sexual abuse myself in RL, BUT, ageplay in secondlife is two adults pretending. That’s it. You don’t like what they’re pretending? Quit talking about it, quit thinking about it, and mind your own god damned business. 90 percent of the time I’ve had to think about ageplay in Secondlife has been because of the people bitching about it. Shut up and let consenting adults be. Please. I don’t want to hear about it.
If you can justify being against 2 consenting adults pretending to do something, then you are clearly part of the problem behind this gambling thing. Gambling itself has no victim. On the adult grid, it should be two consenting adults pretending to do something. One pretending to operate a casino, the other, pretending to gamble with money. That’s it.
But oh no, we got to get the morality/thought police in on everything to spout of with their brand of “The way things ought to be” and we end up with jacked up situations like this.
Live and let live. Is it really that hard? I can go all day without worrying what my neighbors do in their own house and in their spare time, why can’t everyone else?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:40 PM
I’m with #2…screw the casinos. They don’t have anything to offer but laaaaaaaag(oh yeah, and TONS of undeserved money for the owners). I can’t explain how many times I’ve had to change sims because it just bogged down with f-ing slot machines, card tables, and blinking ‘XXX’ textures/signs.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:40 PM
No Casinos = No Camping = Less Free Lindens = No Market = SL death
Good move.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:42 PM
Land of the free?
sure
right
April 5th, 2007 at 8:44 PM
Simple fact is with USA’s differing laws state to state on gambling this becomes an issue,in the uk gambling is legal,really its users choice if they want to gamble they will find casino’s in sl,Difference between sl and rl is that most places where gambling is legal has a governing body to make sure games are not fixed etc and as we have seen lindens do not have the resources to deal with every complaint and fully investigate,With the resources they have they do thier best but its just not possible.I for 1 belive that if you own virual land as long as your not disturbing other land owners or residence in your regions then you should be able to create what you want.I know for 1 that if my buisness was under threat because of net rumours i would not be happy at all.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:47 PM
My last post does not include age play,that should have went and glad it did.There are certain things that are just wrong and no excuses.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:47 PM
I spent 100000L to buy out a casino in the region I am based out of so I could get rid of laggy scripts and freaking camping chairs because I was sick of paying $125 a month for land in a region I couldn’t even use so some leech could suck pennies out of noobs. I have no sympathy for people who have to rely on such slimy method in order to make money, when my friends and I bust out butts working in real life as well as in Second Life, building scripting and texturing in order to have our entertainment affordably and without having to be either lagged to death or unable to access your own land because there’s too many campers.
Leechers feel that they have intrinsic “rights” to do what they like on private servers run by a private company, rather than feeling priveledged that LL allows unverifieds in the first place. This is a service, first and foremost, provided by a company who is under pressure from all directions to provide it, free of charge, to people who wish to enjoy and experience it. I personally think LL is too benevolent and shows too light a hand especially with regards to allowing unverified accounts free reign to camp and grief as they please, sometimes unchecked by the Lindens. Those whiners who feel they have a right to run their laggy businesses that pander to the least common denominator should be grateful for what they have.
As for the adult grid being like the teen grid. Last I checked, consenting adults can do as they please on privately owned land. Adult content does not imply the right to be virtual prostitutes. That’s sadder than downloading porn. Be thankful you can get away with crap like that, while the rest of us honest working people infuse actual cash into maintaining and developing regions for your entertainment.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:48 PM
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April 5th, 2007 at 8:49 PM
concerned, Ageplay has not gone. The ageplay groups have just been renamed and there is still advertising for ageplay.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:49 PM
@ Rob : if you think all owners make tons of cash, think again. Some do, most lose money on it, but keep it up because they like meeting people and having a chat with the players.
Gringo Star : I couldn’t agree more. Live and let live, but I suppose someone will come around and bring up some extreme cases or situations that are so far from the center and then try make a point with those. Ah well… no difference with RL, is there?
April 5th, 2007 at 8:51 PM
time for LL to move their company offshore.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:53 PM
vAnnesa it always will what i mean is i would rather it was affected and there has been some action than to just say well who are they hurting
April 5th, 2007 at 8:53 PM
@56 “Adult content does not imply the right to be virtual prostitutes. That’s sadder than downloading porn.”
Yeah, people who do that are trapped in the dark dungeons of the internet.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:53 PM
@all you people that say casinos are lag mosnters. Well guess what some are, but however. people stay for a reason. If they were losing money and getting suck like a leech Krimson, then they shoudlnt stay, but guess what they do stay. Know why? Cause soem casinos do pay out more than fair. I think youir jsut upset cause you arent making as much money as they are. Its abig biz and yea they mke alot of monyey, but alot of people also win and thats why they stay busy and make money, cuase its just like a RL casino and its a cycle. I would be glad to get a shop by a busy casino. Think about it, traffic = more people = more people to buy things. And you wanna get rid of that, then go move to an empty sim and reloy on ads. Well see where that goes
April 5th, 2007 at 8:54 PM
To stop the lag just stop camping. Also malls cause a lot of lag too.
April 5th, 2007 at 8:56 PM
the lag issue could be said about clubs too,where does it end,my philosiphy in game is i like my sims/parcells running nice so i dont make or use anything that causes major lag its not the buisness its the owner
April 5th, 2007 at 8:58 PM
This is a little off topic, the topic being SLue Laws, but…
If there are places that are causing severe sim lag, you might consider limiting the time slice of script execution cycles on a parcel to a proportion based on the parcel’s area.
Bummer for people passing over that parcel… but perhaps there could be orange banners (like no-entry or buy-pass) saying “script saturation, enter at your own risk.”
April 5th, 2007 at 9:00 PM
Anything that large numbers of people want to see/take part in/do will cause lag.
So the obvious answer is to tightly control the pop-culture of second life. /end sarcasm
April 5th, 2007 at 9:01 PM
maybe the answer would be casino continent,lol,a server base based in a city or country its legal and they all lag eachother that way
April 5th, 2007 at 9:02 PM
@65 sure thats what we need is more red fences (no entry) to look at. Im for it if we could have the option to turn off seeing the fences like you can turn on and off seeing prop lines
April 5th, 2007 at 9:06 PM
@66 Why? if people want to gamble they can go to such places on the internet already. We don’t need it here.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:07 PM
@Anyone complaining about lag, do you wear 100 prim flexi hair, do youw ear bling, do you wear a hud, flexi dresses,etc… lmao those cause more lag than casinos do. Flexi deals with physics calculations and do you know how much server load flexi physics take, well if you did i assume you wouldn’t be complaing baout lag cause you really know. Now when you have those factors times 30 avatars you have like about 75% of the sim load already taken. Just to look nice and feel good. Why not blame the lag on that? Why?, cause that would affect you. Thiknk about how much SL population has thrived on casino’s. Now think about how much popuolation you could lose if casinos’s go down. its a chain reaction. Not many noobs would want to stay in the game cause of no caomping and population drops there. then, about 5% of the populaiton own casino’s. 5% of 4 million is alot. so taking this down will affect everyone else in thelongrun. Just remember that
April 5th, 2007 at 9:10 PM
Fuzionor while you have a point if you actually visit casino’s in sl you find for 50 or 60 gambling machines maybe 2 players and 20 campers,Im not speaking for or against them as i believe you should be able to if you have the market and its not profoundly offensive what you want but i can also understand that people who are effected by the lag caused by many of the casinos are rightly against them,
April 5th, 2007 at 9:11 PM
So..jurisdictions..law enforcement….is this going to include the ageplay sims that promote child rape and such?..cause you know, last time i checked, thats illegal too..
April 5th, 2007 at 9:12 PM
Fuzionor ummm primed flexi hair wouldnt cause the same lag as contant script calls from a casino where you getting your facts from,lol,
April 5th, 2007 at 9:13 PM
well,I don’t like casinos in SL,but everybody should do what he or she wants…the only problem with the casinos is that you never can be sure if the machines are playing fair…however,I did never use them.
But has this anything in common with the problem I have now,I cannot log in?Does anybody know that,please,I’m afraid because anytime I try to log in it says I have to wait 5 minutes,and after that time it says the same again!
I don’t know if there is a casino in the area I was last,bt I also can’t login at other places,so maybe many it’s because they are working on it?
April 5th, 2007 at 9:14 PM
This brings up a few concerns for me.
1) If LL abides by all local jurisdictions rather than leaving the impetus on residents than we might as well be in Toontown, or SL will become akin to it over time.
2) What gets nixed next? How far will LL go to seek legitimacy as a corporate-friendly platform on the main grid?
As an aside, online gambling isn’t illegal in all jurisdictions, but is in the US (with exception to taxed gambling, see lottery and horse racing), while simulated ageplay between consenting adults IS legal in the US and not some other jurisdictions. So, how many jurisdictions is LL going to cater to? Is ageplay being shunned because of the social/political reasons or because of international legal concerns?
While people may find casinos and ageplay abhorrent, they’re certainly not going to be the last of the targets, and they provide examples of what might come next. Consider it similar to a court’s legal precedent, prediction-wise.
What intrigues me more is LL’s complete neglect in ensuring minors are not on the grid. This is far more universally relevant to legal concerns, yet eats into their bottom line if they make the necessary adjustments to keep kids out.
Money, politics, and corporate pandering, with legality as the excuse?
Maybe someday a Linden will write a book when SL is just a wiki page in history and we’ll get the real info. I won’t hold my breath getting Lindens to actually provide clarity.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:14 PM
here is a feature that might help island/sim owners control lag:
Limit population on a per parcel basis. Allow the sim owner to set how many people per sq meter are allowed.
Want to have that “private party”? buy enough land to accomodate your guests and thus you will not impinge upon the sim time the quiet couple next door deserve as they act out their fantasies in private.
Oh well, we need one more thing: Limit camming into restricted areas. The cam position is known to the viewer as evidenced in the voice beta (cam proximity to voice). Therefore a cam should not be allowed to traverse into a parcel (and/or below the fly thru altitude) when the cam owner has no access.
Thus ends the vouyerism fetish satisfaction so many get from SL. They will have to go out into RL and risk their freedom to “peep” and pay the RL price for it when they finally get busted.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:16 PM
“However, given the ambiguities of the issues, Linden Lab has decided that we will not accept any classified ads, place listings, or event listings that appear to relate to simulated casino activity.”
So lets see… how will they get around this. They will just call themselves night clubs now… and don’t advertise that they have casino games on official LL listings. Nice loop hole LL. How about making casino games illegal, not just blackholing it.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:18 PM
“Give me liberty or give me death”
-Patrick Henry
April 5th, 2007 at 9:18 PM
Flexi just doesnt happen, get your facts straight. your only looking at front end. flexi takes up so much physcs calculations its unreal. Until i see you do a formula for angular velocity towards the mass and resistance of an object i will just laugh at you. Flexi moves which = physics which = high mathematics.Since when did physics formula go below scripting code. i think only people who need to talk about lag are people who really know
@concerned Says:
April 5th, 2007 at 9:12 PM PDT
Fuzionor ummm primed flexi hair wouldnt cause the same lag as contant script calls from a casino where you getting your facts from,lol,
April 5th, 2007 at 9:21 PM
This is all a gray area in the law. In the US where LL servers reside and where LL corporate headquarters are, you can get in a lot of trouble (state government, IRS, etc.) for running unregulated unauthorized gambling venues. I think most of us in the States that spent any time thinking about this subject have known for a long time that LL’s very lenient policy on gambling was a risky stance for them. So they deserve a lot of credit for letting it be as free as it has been as well as still allowing it to continue.
The first gray area comes into what constitutes gambling. Native American casinos have been skirting that one for a long time using roundabout reward techniques to compensate gamblers. And many state governments that do not otherwise allow gambling have institutionally sponsored lotteries. So the definition of gambling will be coming into play pretty hard soon.
The second gray area has to do with land, virtual land and governmental jurisdiction. Virtual land right now is a concept coined by LL. It is not a legally recognized thing within the US. Servers hosting land are no more outside of their state’s jurisdiction than Philip Rosedale’s car or RL home. And even if the servers were moved out side of the US I believe that LL would still be fully accountable for their use as a US corporation. So all of these concepts about virtual land and its sovereignty will be soon be coming to the forefront as well.
I think that this half-step move of LL is giving them and us time to to figure out how what position and actions to take in dealing with these concepts. How gambling is defined and the concept of virtual sovereignty or lack of it as it shakes out in SL will greatly impact the shape of the emerging Metaverse and its international laws for years to come.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:22 PM
Most of you are all missing the point here. This has nothing to do with LL wanting to police what goes on in SL. A few months ago the senate and the white house passed a bill which makes it illegal for any banking institution to do business with an online gaming company. If LL is supporting gaming in SL and the US gov. deems conversion of L$ to US$ a banking operation and L$ gaming to fall under the umbrella of online gaming. Philip Rosedale goes to prison. Not only does LL face legal action but all US banking institutions will be forced to no longer do any business with SL. Imagine what happens to their business when you cannot move US$ in or out of SL. Paypal will also have to shutdown any dealings with SL.
I am not in favor of any of this but I understand it’s the reality of the situation the US government has created by policing financial institutions online dealings. I saw this coming as soon as the US went after online poker. It’s only been a matter of time. Because once the feds decide they want to push this issue they have all of their laws in place to cripple the entire operation. Don’t waste your breath here all US customers write to your congress people and your senators.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:23 PM
Good job Lindens. If anything, this makes Second Life a more legitimate world.
And to people griping about spending so much time and money on your unique (just like everyone else’s) casino… you knew before you started that any venture in Second Life comes with risk. You knew going in that you were murky legal territory. This is risk realized. Continue as you wish.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:24 PM
Fuzionor hold on your saying wearing 100 primed flexi hair on a sim will cause as much lag a casino?ok if you had 40 people on sim all wearing flexi you will experiance lag i agree but for 1 this isnt constant and also are you saying casino owners should ban people wearing flexi hair?Your arguement is so making beer come out my nose.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:25 PM
@73
Flexible prims are a completely client-side function and have nothing to do with the serverside physics engine and add nothing to serverside lag.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:25 PM
I understand the intention behind this decision but it seems to me to be a “cover our butts” sanction that will only promote further abuse of the classified system. A quick glance over the current classifieds reveals porno, pedophilia, prostitution all within advertisements not listed under mature content and all illegal in many rl jurisdictions. You shouldn’t pick out just casinos but the classified ads in general. Search the word “GIFT IDEAS” and leave the mature content unchecked. There is an advertisments with mature contect and graphic mature pictures. Hmmmmm.
This is just my Spontaneous thought. Just wondering what the Lindens thought about that.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:25 PM
Yes concerned. and how many sims just have one person on it. You just showed yoruself the poiint there. Thank yourself,
April 5th, 2007 at 9:26 PM
(crap, submitted to early)
Any lag you get from flexiprims is caused by bottlenecks on your end… namely your video card and your RAM.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:27 PM
Jacques you are correct they are handled by the havok engine and the only reason you would experiance lag if your not wearing is by the amount of prims on the parcel
April 5th, 2007 at 9:28 PM
Fuzionor, stop being an idiot. Flexi is a CLIENT-SIDE EFFECT. It’s purely rendered by your client. Yes, it can slow down your framerate if there’s lots of it, but it has absolutely no effect on the sim. All flexi items are considered phantom by the server, they have zero interaction with the physics server.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:28 PM
@67 “if people want to gamble they can go to such places on the internet already. We don’t need it here.”
Ummmm…if they are US citizens it’s not so easy to do anymore. There are a lot of people gaming in SL because it is much easier to do here for a US customer then in an online casino or poker room.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:29 PM
Fuzionor how exactly,answer my question are you proposing that casinos ban bling hair?oh and no textured clothes please?
April 5th, 2007 at 9:31 PM
And im not just talking about flexi, lets go attack the weapon makers that have listens are their huds, lets go blame AO creators for lag. Keep blame where it really is, the whole population in general for lag. It’s not anyones fault for lag, we are limited by technology.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:31 PM
Flexi isn’t handled by the havok engine (which is on the server). Flexi doesn’t involve physics.
Try editing a flexiprim while it’s flexing… it’ll snap back in place and stop moving. That is how it exists as far as the servers are concerned.
It is a completely clientside effect, like llTargetOmega.
April 5th, 2007 at 9:32 PM
Jacques sl has to use havok for physics which is what flexi works within
April 5th, 2007 at 9:33 PM
First Post!
er… well almost? *mutters*