First Look Update: 1.13.3.57787 available
Wednesday, February 7th, 2007 at 6:06 PM by: Steve LindenFirst Look 1.13.3.57787 is now available for download.
Also, just to clarify, First Look: Render Pipeline Improvements will become 1.13.4 soon, however it is still in the final testing stages and will not get labeled 1.13.4 until we make it an official release.
Thanks again for everyone who has been testing First Look, however, we still need as many residents as possible testing this Viewer. This will probably be your last chance to preview the next release and provide feedback before it becomes official.
Also, please check out First Look Isle: http://slurl.com/secondlife/First%20Look%20Isle/128/128/0. There are some tests here that will enable us to gather frame rate statistics and help us further improve performance. This is particularly helpful if you have an older video card.
Thanks again,
-Steve Linden
Release Notes for Second Life 1.13.3(57787) February 7, 2006
Notes:
* This release will clear the cache on startup to eliminate potentially corrupt caches
Changes:
* Reduced the frequency of drag-edit updates to reduce the likelihood of changes reverting due to missed updates
Fixes:
* Fixed a bug where small flexi objects were sometimes stuck floating around an avatar
* Fixed a significant memory leak
* Fixed some issues with the texture cache
* Fixed a bug where textures that were partially mapped to objects were not rezing
* Fixed several crash bugs
* Wind volume slider now takes effect immediately
February 7th, 2007 at 6:11 PM
Thank you steve!!!!!!!!!!!! WHOOO your great!
February 7th, 2007 at 6:19 PM
Swell, I guess intel cards won’t be able to use SecondLife at all soon from what I’m seeing with the First Viewer. Yes, I know blah blah not supported, but LOTS of people use intel cards. It would behoove your company to maybe start…I don’t know, supporting a huge part of the population.
February 7th, 2007 at 6:45 PM
This version STILL had EXTREME slow update of textures compared to 1.13.2 its is incredible slow before textures update even those that are in front of me. I tried again with cleared cache of 1.13.2 and within a minute all textures where there. With this version after 5 minutes still only 20% had loaded out of which 10% remains fuzzy.
February 7th, 2007 at 6:53 PM
went to the island also tre objects now appear very fast but the notecard giver witha texture for example still after 5 minutes had fuzzy texture and ground texture still remained fuzzy also.
Lindenplease not only objects but fast updating of the textures is important. i went to a store with only 10 vendors had to wait 10 minutes and then still all the textures remain fuzzy. We cant do business like this .
Ndivia 7800 512MB
Xeon Dual Core 3ghz
2GB Ram
February 7th, 2007 at 7:03 PM
If your a badly run island and if it has too many active scripts……Your get notecard delay opening and giving.
Open your status bar. CTRL-SHFT-1 and look at the reading…….
February 7th, 2007 at 7:03 PM
I am using a NVIDIA GeForce FX G05200 32/64 with 32meg of memory -does that count as an older card?
1.13.3(2) is much faster at down loading textures.
I am also seeing a lot of “flicker” in land shapes. Land that is terraformed is “incorrect” when viewed from a distance, but “flickers” in to the correct shape as I move the camera in close.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:12 PM
The particle system still seems to be broken: it looks like effects using angle and angle cone patterns are positioning the particles incorrectly and sending them out in a stream. Take a look at the Particle Lab in Teal to see the problem. The fireworks display is especially sad.
Also, I’m getting that harsh red light flickering on and off at night.
Computer: MacBook Pro, Intel Core 2 Duo
OS: 10.4.8
February 7th, 2007 at 7:17 PM
Rezzing MUCH faster for me, and I logged into a typically very laggy area.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:19 PM
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February 7th, 2007 at 7:22 PM
Also had several crashes sofar. Mostly when clicking a item
February 7th, 2007 at 7:27 PM
Editing works just fine in this version also.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:28 PM
Did another test went to a location with almost no scripts jsut alot of nice buildings very low lag.
1.13.2 within 30 seconds all buildings and small objects textures where downloaded and crip clear.
This first look version : even after 5 minutes all textures fuzzy and small objects even those in front of me no texture downloaded.
Please LL do not release this version till textures are fixed.
I did talk to some other people and not everybody is having this problem even with older cards. There must be somewhere either a driver issue or something else. I also noticed if i wait 10minutes suddenly all the textures come through and are crisp even the map (map does not download of the location until then). If i try somewhere else same happens after 10mins suddenly everything appears just like eveything bursts through within 30 secs with 1.13.2 here it happens after 10 mins. (video driver?dual processor?Memory?)
February 7th, 2007 at 7:35 PM
The problem in high scripted populations and poorly buildt islands have to be addressed befor this client is released. There is noway this client will be useable. Until LLabs figuresout what to do with builders that design poorly and with little understanding how a dieting active scripts with users with in a island. Vedio streams is another issues LLAbs needs to address. loading, and scripting movies streams needs to be updated. Holding 100 pupulation and having 3 more more streams occuring ina less then 5 IQ build island just does not make sence. Add to the insult 100 inthe sim. EQUALS NIGHTNARE ON SL.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:40 PM
Collecting information on FL Isle at the moment, having to redownload the standard Second Life viewer. Ugh. X_X
Definately some improvements on the new client in terms of frame rate, anyway. Since this update, I haven’t had any problems with the cache or otherwise. Nice work guys. =)
Dropping that notecard in the box now.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:45 PM
Momo Muni: It would behoove you to not use a $5 graphics card to run a 3D metaverse client.
February 7th, 2007 at 7:50 PM
Momo Muni and any others having problems with Intel cards, can you *please* post exactly what Intel card you have (paste the contents from Help > About Second Life) so that we can figure out which cards are having problems. Also please try with and without “Enable VBO” checked.
If textures are loading more slowly for you, can you please do the following:
* Compare the two versions in a relatively unpopulated area since texture load times vary greatly in busy areas
* Make sure that the ‘Maximum Bandwidth’ in Preferences > Network is the same in both version (should be no more than 500 on most setups, use 500 for testing purposes)
* If it is still much slower, watch the packet loss indicator in the upper right hand corner. Is it frequently yellow or red in First Look?
* Enable the debug menu and select Client > Consoles > Texture Console. Under ‘State’, what does it mostly say? ‘SIM’? ‘DEC’? Something else?
Thanks!
-Steve
February 7th, 2007 at 8:06 PM
* Reduced the frequency of drag-edit updates to reduce the likelihood of changes reverting due to missed updates
Oh my god. If this is true, I owe that Linden a case of their favorite potent potable. I’m serious.
I’ll try it when I get off work.
Also, is the corrupt cache the one that causes FL to crash on startup?
February 7th, 2007 at 8:10 PM
Textures still loading slowly and then blurry at best in highly populated areas (which need to work if you don’t want us all hiding away in our houses). Stutter bug still there…am guessing it’s related to sim caps as Torley mentioned to those of us tracking this one.
Will try the test you mention above, Steve, Tomorrow though.
February 7th, 2007 at 8:43 PM
After being logged in, if I go into preferences and change the light to sun and moon only it will crash the client every time
February 7th, 2007 at 8:50 PM
I noticed the blurry texture issue with build 57679, but then I noticed that the graphics memory pref had been reset to 32MB. Once I set it back to 512MB, the problem went away. Perhaps this is what other people are seeing? Given that textures can be around 1Mb-4Mb each it would certainly make sense that the client would be tossing away high-res versions of textures to avoid filling up the apparent low memory….
February 7th, 2007 at 8:53 PM
I second the particle problem, it seems like the logic for the values PSYS_SRC_ANGLE_BEGIN and PSYS_SRC_ANGLE_END has been changed. As if you had to specify a cone of exclusion before (old qiki says this “area in radians specifying where particles will NOT be created (for ANGLE patterns) ” and now it has been “fixed” so that you specify a cone of inclusion instead.
THis made many of my particle emidder spread patterns collapse to a cone and I had to change the values and invert the prim to get the spread back.
Can someone verify if this was a deliberate change and maybe update that info somehwere so scripters can have a chance of being notified?
February 7th, 2007 at 8:55 PM
I am a little new to Second Life and was just trying out the First Look and had a crash about a minute into a session. Thought this might be helpful though since I am not running Intel hardware. Not sure how much information to send. The crash logger sent some stuff but this might be handy too. The video information first and then a general system summary. Let me know if anything else might be helpful. 1-13-2-15 seems to run ok.
Name NVIDIA GeForce 6600
PNP Device ID PCI\VEN_10DE&DEV_0141&SUBSYS_C3693842&REV_A2\4&385BE0C4&0&0070
Adapter Type GeForce 6600, NVIDIA compatible
Adapter Description NVIDIA GeForce 6600
Adapter RAM 256.00 MB (268,435,456 bytes)
Installed Drivers nv4_disp.dll
Driver Version 6.14.10.6693
INF File oem9.inf (nv4_NV3x section)
Color Planes 1
Color Table Entries 4294967296
Resolution 1280 x 1024 x 70 hertz
Bits/Pixel 32
Memory Address 0xE0000000-0xE3FFFFFF
Memory Address 0xD0000000-0xEFFFFFFF
Memory Address 0xE4000000-0xE4FFFFFF
IRQ Channel IRQ 18
I/O Port 0×000003B0-0×000003BB
I/O Port 0×000003C0-0×000003DF
Memory Address 0xA0000-0xBFFFF
Driver c:\windows\system32\drivers\nv4_mini.sys (6.14.10.6693, 2.70 MB (2,826,944 bytes), 10/29/2004 8:50 PM)
OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Professional
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name DEV-01
System Manufacturer NVIDIA
System Model AWRDACPI
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 31 Stepping 0 AuthenticAMD ~1809 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Award Software International, Inc. F2, 12/17/2004
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume1
Locale United States
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = “5.1.2600.2180 (xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)”
User Name DEV-01\Administrator
Time Zone Eastern Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 1,024.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 301.77 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 2.40 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys
February 7th, 2007 at 8:58 PM
Funky island there, Lindens. Seems to be running into some sim lag too (time dilation dipped to 0.29 while I was there at least twice) dispite there being only half a dozen to a dozen people. It’s a good idea getting everyone to take the same test, as where one person would claim a sim is crowded at 10 people in a forest, another’s 20 people in a night club might be sparse. This way everyone gets the same test.
That said, I think there’s a flaw with your testing. Not everyone is content to use the default settings. I know I’m certainly not, tree details above the absolute minimum can cause my computer to stutter when they go from their + shaped tree shape to the fleshed out model. Likewise anything less than full object and avatar detail is a crime against builders and texture artists (unless, like one of my friends, you design at the absolute lowest settings because you must, your computer can’t handle more). Also I can’t live without bump mapping, local lighting, shininess, and rippling water. I COULD turn them off, but then could it be considered living? >.>;
Perhaps the greatest flaw of the test is the sim itself. It’s staged. Yes it does test some of the worst conditions possible, but they’re the best of the worst. You know what to expect from each test. A TRUE test would be picking half a dozen sims (3 low population/prim and 3 high population/prim) and doing testing based on those sims. There weren’t a lot of different or large textures in the First Look sim for instance. I’m not sure if lighting was active anywhere since it was day time when I visited. And under normal circumstances you didn’t see another person during the testing. The real game has all of these things, plus a much more varied landscape than what you provided (like buildings behind buildings behind buildings with see through walls, all containing stuff).
I suggest picking a team of well traveled residents to choose those sims for your next test, and then you can do in house testing as I assume you did with the First Look sim and come up with some comparison numbers.
That said, this client is back to being speedy but slow in texture rezzing. The minimum time now is 3 minutes (an improvement over the second last one at 5 minutes. The last one doens’t count due to the “missing image” issue on my end). Maximum time is still 10+ minutes though, on TREES no less. I agree with Ziyi however, this client isn’t quite ready for prime time until the texture rez time is at MOST 3 minutes.
On the plus side, the client is faster than ever, and at least now seems to accept me moving forward in a straight line without the frame rate dropping to abyssimal levels (it goes from 28 to 12 walking about Serenity Woods, but 12 is still navigatable. 5 or less is not). It also seems to respond better to me spinning my camera around, and it’s more processor/memory friendly again as I can quickly swap between browser and game effortlessly. I know you guys can solve this texture issue, keep at it.
To Kinzo and Momo:
Yes, your cards are old. Intel cards in particular are just plain crappy. Intel knows motherboards and processors, but I wouldn’t trust them to draw a cube quickly if my life depended on it. An upgrade to a 4th or 5th generation card (something 4 or 5 generations back, like the middle or end of 2005 or so) should cost less than $80. My particular video card (a Radeon 9700 Pro with 128 MB of VRAM) is now $15 US on eBay, and seems to run perfectly fine with this new First Look client. I get an average of 25 FPS at 1280×1024 with most of the trimmings (as mentioned above) in a real sim. My card is at least 7 generations old now though, most likely older.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:11 PM
There is some kind of graphical error with boats. Both viewers, stock and the latest first look.
Boats jerk. It’s pretty bad. Some see it more then others.
They are elastic with the visual updates. I dont get this with other vehicles, that i’ve noticed.
I’m passing you a paddle boat in game incase this problem is related to your work or like me, you just like to get your pants wet.
CPU: 0.18 micron Intel Pentium 4 (1795 Mhz)
Memory: 768 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: RADEON 9600 XT x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.5819 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 0/3986 (0.0%)
Viewer Digest: 7da5dca3-5bc0-696d-726d-363c346073a5
February 7th, 2007 at 9:23 PM
So far so good Steve. Nice one on fixing the wind slider btw!
There was a lot of crashing involving creating new scripts or right click menus inside object inventory last night so I will keep an eye on this in this version. I notice textures and objects load a little faster on sliding the Network tab maximum bandwidth slider up and down while they are loading in. Not sure if there is a throttle on the network settings to prevent this in normal use. Could this effect be built into the client as default to speed up content load normally?
February 7th, 2007 at 9:27 PM
I was having the problem with textures loading slowly too on the First Look viewer. Then I noticed that SL was detecting my video card’s memory amount wrong. It had it set to 16mb when mine has 768mb. Setting it to 512mb seems to help the problem.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:30 PM
A little graphical glitch I’ve noticed. If you move your camera away from your avatar and look somewhere else (as a warden in Serenity Woods, I’m always on the lookout for griefers, thus half the time my camera isn’t near me), then snap it back by pressing Esc or turning (assuming I’m standing up) some of my attachments do not reappear, or do but only half so (like half of my hair). I know why they disappear in the first place, why keep track of them if they aren’t near the camera, but if the client’s going to make some of the prims return, it should make the rest return as well. >.>;
February 7th, 2007 at 9:32 PM
Sorry forgot to post my config:
Second Life 1.13.3 (57787) Feb 7 2007 17:05:47
You are at 240982.6, 244604.6, 40.6 in Rosario C2 located at sim933.agni.lindenlab.com (72.5.12.83:12035)
CPU: Not supported (2730 Mhz) - Really an OCed Core 2 Duo R6400
Memory: 2046 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista (Build 6000) - Ultimate 64-bit
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 8800 GTX/PCI/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.1.1
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 28/22501 (0.1%)
Viewer Digest: 7da5dca3-5bc0-696d-726d-363c346073a5
February 7th, 2007 at 9:46 PM
kevin are you over clocking that cpu? and how high is your cashe set? if your at 1500 better set it to 500 because you be ahell alot less stressed.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:58 PM
Cache is set at 500mb. I’m overclocking my CPU from 2.13GHz to 2.73GHz.
February 7th, 2007 at 9:59 PM
Same reproducible crash when editing a script in an object.
—–
1) object belongs to someone else who has given me mod on their objects
2) SL crashes if I attempt to edit the script while not in the same GROUP as the object
3) the script is in a prim which is a member of a linkset
February 7th, 2007 at 10:28 PM
To all of you bringing up the particle changes: This is not a product of the First Look viewer, but rather happened with the last update and seems to be a side effect of the llFrand bug that was introduced with that update.
February 7th, 2007 at 10:44 PM
Kevin this is my specs..CPU: AMD (2486 Mhz)-4400×2 110 watt
Memory: 2048 MB+1024
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600) ( Japanese )
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 7900 GTX/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW! 512 EXTREME
OpenGL Version: 2.0.3
A8N-SLi Premium
————————————————————
as you can see i am OC the 4400 But i not having slow texture showing. Infact I am even alittle faster then other versions on First Look. My cashe is set at 600 and I and sailing along.
Hows the cooling? is your cpu getting enough clean air? check thats your not over heating. Over heating can result in slower preformence( as you know ). check fans etc…….some basic ABC`s just to make sure system is are peak condition. From what i heard the VISTA drivers for the 8800 series are have alot of problems. Which can result in problems are your having….
Hope this give you a little help
Usagi
February 7th, 2007 at 11:06 PM
What happened to dynamic reflections? There’s no entry for them under Client -> Rendering any more. Was it a one-time thing?
February 7th, 2007 at 11:26 PM
Not running at all for me, crashes on startup. Many crash reports sent.
AMD X2 4200+ on XP Pro SP2. EVGA 7900 video card.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:29 PM
I need to clarify, that’s 1.13.3 (57520) that crashes on load.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:36 PM
CPU: 0.13 micron Intel Pentium III mobile (1862 Mhz)
Memory: 1015 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: Intel
Graphics Card: Intel 915GM
OpenGL Version: 1.4.0 - Build 4.14.10.3984
February 7th, 2007 at 11:36 PM
Uh-oh, First Look 1.13.3.57787 doesn’t run either, crashes while downloading clothing, like my previous messages said. The stock viewer works fine. Rebooting did not fix the problem.
February 7th, 2007 at 11:36 PM
Mine crashes on startup as well
February 8th, 2007 at 12:06 AM
CPU: AMD (2211 Mhz)
Memory: 2048 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 7800 GT/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW!
OpenGL Version: 2.0.3
Also noticing vendor textures that take an extremely long time to load. Texture console says the state is “—” for all textures on the vendor when I edit it. I also notice a texture on my HUD never loads unless I directly edit it. I asked other people in the room if vendor textures were loading for them on the regular client, and they are.
Also, attachments seem to be loading just a bit slower. Other people in the same room report they are loading normally in the regular client. My bandwidth is 1500 so I doubt I’m bottlenecking myself. Packet loss is reported at 0.0%.
Client is no longer crashing when avatar vertex program is enabled during start.
Physical-object-moving-in-a-straight-line jerking is still not fixed
February 8th, 2007 at 12:53 AM
Hmm, still super-crashy under Linux…
2007-02-08T08:49:45Z INFO: LLViewerAssetStorage::storeAssetData (legacy) e5cb01e8-394f-88e0-f3be-9ae7405aa420:texture ASSET_ID: a6745f13-33f1-79c9-cc89-0bfcd2e07911
2007-02-08T08:49:45Z INFO: xfer request id: 7877505399357261911 to 69.25.105.30:12035
2007-02-08T08:49:45Z INFO: starting vfile transfer: a6745f13-33f1-79c9-cc89-0bfcd2e07911,texture to 69.25.105.30:12035
2007-02-08T08:49:47Z INFO: LLIMView::createFloater: from ea89b2a3-65c5-4efc-a1b6-66e1c2422c9f in session 0f1641a1-6827-8480-0737-e2aaa2636236
2007-02-08T08:49:47Z INFO: Getting asset data for: 67cc2844-00f3-2b3c-b991-6418d01e1bb7
2007-02-08T08:49:47Z INFO: Starting transfer for 67cc2844-00f3-2b3c-b991-6418d01e1bb7
2007-02-08T08:49:47Z INFO: Receiving 671918e6-dd3c-13cb-2445-ed3f37f0346e, size 13085 bytes
2007-02-08T08:49:48Z INFO: Unknown object updates: 15
*** glibc detected *** corrupted double-linked list: 0×1317a270 ***
OpenGL vendor string: ATI Technologies Inc.
OpenGL renderer string: MEDION RADEON X740XL Generic
OpenGL version string: 2.0.6286 (8.33.6)
This is without EnableVBO checked, with it checked the client will grind to a halt within about 30 seconds to a minute.
Really hope this version doesn’t become live just yet.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:16 AM
# 19 Feynt Mistral:
You wrote about Intel graphic cards that are too old and suggest replacing them.
Nice Idea.. but, for example me, I use also Intel graphics.
I cannot replace it because - its the built-in graphics of my laptop!
Therefore, no chance for replacing the graphics card and using something else.
Probably many of the SL residents have this problem, and also paying premium menbers. So I hope LL wont forget us when they work on the client.
Will try out the first look client this evening.
February 8th, 2007 at 1:49 AM
Did some serious testing this morning.
Stutter still there but not very noticable.
Texture rendering extremely slow. Still after 10 minutes textures still loading. The difference between first look and original client is huge so it doesn’t have to be prooved by comparing. All tho I did.
I did notice that in debug-mode (CTRL+SHIFT+3) some textures seem to never complete. It’s like the client are trying them over and over again. That would explain the overall texture download becomes slow.
Tried to identify what textures it was but couldn’t find the correct UID. And sometimes it changed. However, checking the right column (size) you could see it was the same textures everytime.
Comparing to original client the debug-window seems to flow normally. Hard to grasp everything that happens but it seems more normal.
Btw, in First Look, the “failing” textures show as purple and type “SIM”. Also the Pkg (Package) blinks yellow. The main window show no package losses.
Please email me if you want some screenshots on this. At work right now but I’m willing to spend some time debugging later. Screenshot at home unfortunattely.
Also tried to bring objects to an empty land, testing all kind of settings on the object and graphics but wasn’t able to reproduce the problem.
Can it be problems with textures close by in another SIM? Can it be rendering problems with certain textures? Decoding changed?
February 8th, 2007 at 2:04 AM
Just a wild guess, could this be related?
Steve Linden said:
“For those who are curious, the reason that this release is smaller is that I went through and removed or compressed a bunch of textures that we ship with the client to speed up the loading of images on the Orientation Islands.”
February 8th, 2007 at 2:14 AM
I *was* going to landmark First Look Island, but it won’t let me. I can’t even add it to my picks.
I wanted to send it to people I know who are offline so they can go through the testing as well.
February 8th, 2007 at 2:33 AM
#19 Feynt Mistral:
You wrote about users of old Intel graphics cards and suggest replacing them with a newer one.
I am also such an Intel graphics user and I cannot replace it - its the built-in graphics of my laptop!
Probably there are lots of SL residents out there like me, and also premium ones. I hope LL will not forget them when working on the SL client.
Will hopefully try out the First look this evening, after work.
February 8th, 2007 at 2:35 AM
Still having the rainbow flashes when VBO is enabled. It’s happening not at every place I’m at. Right now have no problem with flying flexi’s.
FPS is higher than on the normal vieuwer.
CPU: AMD (1991 Mhz)
Memory: 1024 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce FX 5200/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!
OpenGL Version: 2.0.0
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 142/33730 (0.4%)
February 8th, 2007 at 2:40 AM
The minimap is a lot smaller
On 1.13.3 (2), it’s the same size as a 0.24m x 0.24m HUD
On 1.13.3 (57787), it’s the same size as a 0.18m x0.18m HUD
With this 43% reduction in minimap area, it’s very difficult to see any detail. Was this change intentional? If so, please reconsider. If not, please fix it
February 8th, 2007 at 3:01 AM
To me, it seems you´re running more often in the “can´t stop flying forward” situation now…
but than can allthoug be through instable SL in general
i would take a look at the client, because right now not so many people on and still happening.
mostly happens after crossing SIM-borders
cheers
Ralf
February 8th, 2007 at 3:12 AM
No Problems running under vista, have 2.8 Pentium D(uo?) 1Gig memory, nvidia 107 drivers for gforce7600GT
only one “quirk” and thats sometimes, textures “flash” showing a multicolored texture instead.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:12 AM
i am rally happy at the moment, a few codes at has been broken for over 2 years are finally FIXED OMG i could not believe my eyes!
February 8th, 2007 at 3:34 AM
Very odd. Did new test with texture console all says SIM. But I enabled run multiple threads logged out and back in as of then every texture download is very fast (not as fast as 1.13.2 but smoother). Even the map. Strange…. But nice. Will continue doign some more tests
February 8th, 2007 at 3:35 AM
Thank you Jeremy Ondricek!
My graphics card had also been set to 16MB (The lowest setting) despite it having 640MB! Is there a problem here with cards with over 512MB of memory?
For reference:
Nvidia GeForce 8800 GTS 640MB
Driver: 97.92 (6.14.10.9792)
DirectX 9.0c
Trees are fixed, textures load properly.
February 8th, 2007 at 4:42 AM
Hi guys, why is the framerate much higher in mouselook then in normal look?
CPU: Dual i386 (Unknown) (2330 Mhz)
Memory: 2049 MB
OS Version: Darwin 8.8.1 Darwin Kernel Version 8.8.1: Mon Sep 25 19:42:00 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.13.8.obj~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: NVIDIA GeForce 7600 GT OpenGL Engine
OpenGL Version: 2.0 NVIDIA-1.4.40
cheers
February 8th, 2007 at 5:04 AM
cant conecct to the sign in screen and when i delated it i lost folders
CPU: 0.13 micron Intel Pentium III mobile (1729 Mhz)
Memory: 1527 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: Intel
Graphics Card: Intel 915GM
OpenGL Version: 1.4.0 - Build 4.14.10.3943
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 40/17820 (0.2%)
Viewer Digest: 62f26f0c-94cd-1933-6063-7fab86f82ad8
February 8th, 2007 at 5:10 AM
Sorry, this is no better than the previous version for me. The frame rate is really good, but it crashes after 15 - 20 minutes, like others have reported. It freezes the whole computer, which has to be rebooted forcefully (holding down the power button). For this reason I have switched back to the normal viewer. This has better not be released as the normal viewer because I will have to stop using SL until it is fixed
CPU: Intel Centrino Duo 1.86MHz
RAM: 1Gb
Video: Nvidia 7800Go
Video Driver: nVidia Geforce Go 7800, Driver, Windows XP, Multi Language, Inspiron 9400/E1705, v.78.59, A01
February 8th, 2007 at 5:15 AM
the graphic card setting always presets to 16……and needs to be adjusted ( you have to tell the client to read your computer setting for best setting for the client ) But i found out I stil have to do my own adjustings.
as for the mouselook. that is always the case if focused on less object observering low detailed objects. If tahts what your looking at.
February 8th, 2007 at 5:25 AM
Another texture issue: Using llSetPrimitiveParams() in a flexi prim to set the texture UUID, repeat and offset will cause the repeat and offset to change immediately, but the texture itself doesn’t update until I wiggle the flexi prim so that it moves (sometimes just right-clicking on the flexi prim will update the texture, but not always).
Last night, when I was running build 57679, this behavior did not occur; the texture updated at the same time as the repeat and offset.
(Addendum: llSetPrimitiveParams() doesn’t always seem to update the texture on non-flexi prims either. If you edit the prim and go to the texture tab, you can see the desired image in the Texture box, but it doesn’t always appear on the faces of the prims.)
February 8th, 2007 at 6:18 AM
I’m horrified to read
* This release will clear the cache on startup to eliminate potentially corrupt caches
I’m on a connection with limited dowload/upload volume and it’s it’s just about enough for using SL. But if it will dump the whole cache on every restart, I won’t be able to use it, it will be just too much.
Guys, this is an unnecessarily heavy-weight “solution”. Most people who have a problem must surely find out that clearing the cache is one of the first solutions top try, it’s clearly written in KB and everywhere you go looking for help.
I hope this won’t get to the official viewer or I just won’t be able to use SL.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:37 AM
My Plea:
Please, dear linden labs, you who have brought me so much happiness,
Please do continue to have code that allows intel cards to work, even if poorly. Laptop being my only computer, not upgradeable, I (and other like me) won’t be able to play at all without the tiniest bit if intel compatibility, and buying a new computer is completely out of my means. So stands my plea, dear linden labs, please, please, even if there is any way to hack it, please continue to allow intel cards to work.
lol, pathetic sounding I know, but it is true. No intel compatibility = no SL for me.
February 8th, 2007 at 7:18 AM
I haven’t noticed most of the problems listed here with any of the first look viewers until this one, but, i also noticed that the sim i logged into was running at the increasingly common 0-4 Sim FPS, as opposed to the increasinly uncommon 45 Sim FPS. As the sim floated about into the 20’s the textures popped in with increasing speed, finally all coming in quickly when it actually hit 45 for a few seconds. I don’t know as this has any relevance, just an observation.
February 8th, 2007 at 7:35 AM
First boot was fine, crash just before entering world everytime now.
Cache folder (set on non default drive) is not empty as patch notes suggest it should be if client not running ?
Manually deleted all cache files - still crash.
After crash the previously empty cache folder has refilled with its standard 0.97gb of data files plus textures/0-f subfolders.
Disabled VBO before logging in - no crash.
Renabled VBO once in game - no crash.
Cache now at 1.95 gb
Logged out from menu - cache still 1.95 gb
Logged in again with VBO enabled - crash before entering world - cache unchanged.
Disabled VBO at log in screen - logged in perfectly.
Rinse/repeat.
CPU: AMD (2080 Mhz)
Memory: 1536 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: Radeon X1600 Series (Omega 3.8.330) x86/MMX/3DNow!/SSE
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6287 WinXP Release
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 12/1200 (1.0%)
Viewer Digest: 7da5dca3-5bc0-696d-726d-363c346073a5
February 8th, 2007 at 7:38 AM
is a new experiens and i have some difficulties to understan english
please excuse me -
February 8th, 2007 at 7:46 AM
FL rezzes my big hires walls faster thn main viewer, which is good.
BUT
Testing both in one precise situation, FL is much worse.
As a previously seen texture comes into view again a few seconds later, with main viewer, it is already rezzed, no glitch.
With FL, it flicks into visibility fast, but about half a second late.
So as I fly round my central mountain, and my big wall is progressively revealed, little squares of naked sky are constantly coming into view on the mountain edge, then flickering out as the texture rezzes, blocking out the sky as it should.
So I have a horrid blue fringe of “shouldn’t be visible” sky-rectangles flickering into view and then disappearing at the line where things are appearing from behind the mountain as I move.
I am uncertain whether it is only when things emerge from behind terrain. or whether moving round big objects als produces tthese little brief blue holes through to sky, breaking into the picture as you move,
My “round the mountain” flight makes it glaringly obvious (and hugely annoying) but maybe it’s happening everywhere ?
This problem only occurs with FL. With the regular viewer I fly round as fast as I like, and each object comes into view fully rezzed.
I guess it would be grey if I hadn’t seen it before, but not a brief hole of invisibility with the startling blue of the sky, every time I see it again.
Thats what happens with FL.
Maybe its the fault of my card ? Not pulling the pre-seen pre-stored texture back in quickly enough ? Whereas the normal viewer is slower rezzing, because it is holding on to more stuff. Swings and roundabouts ?
Anyway - this is my experience, with a poorish oldish graphics card. Mac G4 powerbook with the ATI 64MB card (yes, I know - barely acceptable).
February 8th, 2007 at 9:05 AM
This version freezes regularly my whole computer, after 30 minutes online, so that I have to turn it off.
Last version did “only” crash, but leave the mashine alive,, most of the time.
VBO on, so far, I’m going to see if turning that off makes any difference.
BTW: I have 5GB of RAM, SL seems to see only 2GB:
CPU: 4 x i386 (Unknown) (2660 Mhz)
Memory: 2049 MB
OS Version: Darwin 8.8.1 Darwin Kernel Version 8.8.1: Mon Sep 25 19:42:00 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.13.8.obj~1/RELEASE_I386 i386
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: ATI Radeon X1900 OpenGL Engine
OpenGL Version: 2.0 ATI-1.4.40
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.8_0000000000)
February 8th, 2007 at 9:48 AM
I would like to thank paulie femto for his very specific repro which led to finding that bug.
Tangletwigs: great detail on that crash issue, sounds to me like it crashesh reliably with VBO enabled on startup? Are you running 1.13.3.57787 ?
Thanks, keep em coming!
-Steve
February 8th, 2007 at 10:21 AM
on the mac pro, I keep Crashing w/o VBO as well.
With VBO it takes down the whole computer, w/o VBO only the viewer crashes.
February 8th, 2007 at 11:31 AM
Both of my computers crash when going to that test island before it’s even fully rezed.
Main PC:
ASUS M2N SLI mainboard
Geforce 7600 GT
AMD X2 64 4600+
2 gigs of ram
torture test island result: Crashed almost instantly
Second machine:
Toshiba laptop model M45-S2693. Test island result: Crashed not only SL but my video card driver, had to forcibly reboot after total system lock and crawl.
It should be showing up as a Pentium 4 CPU
SL About screen shows:
Second Life 1.13.3 (57787) Feb 7 2007 17:05:47
You are at 239837.0, 233943.5, 25.6 in Otter Valley located at sim2210.agni.lindenlab.com (64.129.40.214:13003)
CPU: 0.13 micron Intel Pentium III mobile (1729 Mhz)
Memory: 1016 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: Intel
Graphics Card: Intel 915GM
OpenGL Version: 1.4.0 - Build 4.14.10.4332
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 2/3069 (0.1%)
Viewer Digest: 7da5dca3-5bc0-696d-726d-363c346073a5
February 8th, 2007 at 11:48 AM
Well, I would love to help test. Unforturnately it appears something major has gone wrong today. Login is failing with something about “Region Login packet never received” which leaves my client with all the normal UI as though I am logged in, but with the startup screen displayed.
I have been trying for 30 minutes now to successfully login. On several occaisions I was to complete the login process, but everything remained grey or missing, and could do nothing but turn around. No map, no money, no inventory of course. Totally useless.
So LL - What happened between yesterday, when we had 26k users on and things worked - to today, when the grid appears to be totally in the toilet?
DRD
February 8th, 2007 at 11:56 AM
Back to seeing extremely high Packet Loss again 20% or more. This all seems so random. One day all is good, the next, totally tanked.
At this point I did manage to get in, but nothing is rezzing and I am locked in hover. Can’t move, can’t use map or inventory, can’t rez. Oh, my $$ shows, but where would I spend it.. lol
February 8th, 2007 at 12:06 PM
Interesting note - First Look Viewer appeares to use the same cache location as main viewer. Cleared cache and while packet loss is still high, was able to log in and things appear normal.
If this is a test viewer, maybe it should a different location for cache??
February 8th, 2007 at 12:13 PM
Lots of weirdness, prims and textures popping in and out of existance, lots of sttuttering and uncontrollable fights in to the wild or ground. This viewer is being very unstable today.
CPU: Not supported (3015 Mhz)
Memory: 2048 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
Graphics Card: RADEON X800 XL x86/SSE2
OpenGL Version: 2.0.6287 WinXP Release
February 8th, 2007 at 12:43 PM
Hi Steve,
I tried posting this earlier, but there was some sort of error, so I’ll try again:
FL rezzes my big hires walls faster than main viewer, which is good.
BUT
Testing in one precise situation, FL is much worse, as follows:
As a previously seen texture comes into view again a few seconds later ( flying round again), with the main viewer, it is already rezzed, no glitch, looks fine.
With FL, each panel of the wall flicks into visibility fast, but about half a second late.
So as I fly round my central mountain, and my big wall is progressively revealed, little “corners” of naked sky are constantly coming into view on the mountain edge, then flickering out as the texture rezzes, blocking out the sky as it should.
So I have a horrid blue fringe of “shouldn’t be visible” half-rectangles flickering into view and then disappearing at the line where things are appearing from behind the mountain as I move.
I am uncertain whether it is only when things emerge from behind terrain. or whether moving round big objects also produces these little brief blue peeps through to sky, breaking into the picture as you move,
My “round the mountain” flight makes it glaringly obvious (and hugely annoying) but maybe it’s happening everywhere ?
This problem only occurs with FL. With the regular viewer I fly round as fast as I like, and each object comes into view fully rezzed - no flickering gaps.
The moving line of blue corners peeping round the terrain only happens with FL.
Maybe its the fault of my card ? Not pulling the pre-seen pre-stored texture back in quickly enough ? Whereas the normal viewer is slower rezzing, because it is holding on to more stuff ? Swings and roundabouts ?
Anyway - this is my experience, with a poorish oldish graphics card.
Mac G4 1.25GHz powerbook with 2GB memory and the ATI 64MB card running MacOs 10.4.8 (yes, I know - barely acceptable).
Hope this helps, and that I don’t need a better computer to escape from this very ugly and distracting effect………..
February 8th, 2007 at 12:49 PM
Whoops sorry - the fact I had an actual crash and error message on the first posting attempt, and that then it didn’t appear after a few hours, misled me into thinking it hadn’t even made it to moderation.
Strangely, it appeared the moment I did the re-post. Coincidence ?
PLEASE DELETE THIS AND THE FIRST VERSION, as the second is an improvement.
February 8th, 2007 at 12:51 PM
In answer to Steve:
Tangletwigs: great detail on that crash issue, sounds to me like it crashesh reliably with VBO enabled on startup? Are you running 1.13.3.57787 ?
Yes running version 57787, and crash reliably if I have VBO on during load up sequence. Just done so again to confirm it too myself
February 8th, 2007 at 1:02 PM
22″ TFT with 1680×1050 pixels: 16:10 format … it always goes to 16:9 instead of 16:10, thus distorting the image. If I unselect and reselect ‘automatic detection’, this gets fixed. But the whole HUD is then too far to the left, partially hidden.
February 8th, 2007 at 2:12 PM
Tillie I experience the same thing with my 21″. Should be 8:5 but always reverts never maintains after logout.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:04 PM
OK probably totally unrelated, but …
I had a need to enable UPNP both in my router, and the 2 XP services (SSDP and UPNP) involved with this.
Forgot myself and logged into SL with VBO on in preferences. Logged in fine …
I need to test see if it was a fluke mebbe lol
February 8th, 2007 at 3:06 PM
I’m overall pretty happy with the First Look viewer. It seems like the framerate is smoother and faster, and (maybe it’s my imagination) but the colors seem a little more vibrant.
However, with almost *every* version of SL (First Look or not), I have a consistent problem: when I turn around 180 degrees, I get terrible lag and slowdown! I’m running my SL on a Quad G5 Mac, with 4 GB of RAM. This has been a ongoing issue that, it seems, still plagues my SL experience. If I’m just walking along, and decide to turn around and go back the way I came (180 degrees behind me), when I turn around, everything shudders and slows down to a crawl for a little bit.
Besides that, First Look is a nice improvement for me. I hope this becomes the new standard, once all the other bugs are worked out.
February 8th, 2007 at 3:06 PM
Disregard my previous post, crashed next time lol
February 8th, 2007 at 3:23 PM
Ah, the ever popular Linden solution to everything, “Go to an unpopulated area.”
Since akll I can do when I’m online is camp and chat, it’s all I will do. And since free accounts will be around forever, I downgraded today, who needs L$ if you can’t use them, or have really nothing to use them for> and who needs to be premium, if the only benefit you get from being premium is the right to throw even more money down the rathole that has become Linden Lags.
February 8th, 2007 at 4:28 PM
Forget what I said earlier about not crashing with avatar vertex program enabled - that will kill it 100% of the time for me now. I am running the latest nVidia drivers.
February 8th, 2007 at 4:40 PM
Crashes reliably when selecting “Bump Mapped & Cloth” in Preferences.
HP Pavilion a1450n
AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+
2 GB RAM
NVidia GeForce 7300 GT
Driver version 6.14.10.9371
Windows XP MCE, Service Pack 2
February 8th, 2007 at 4:44 PM
Steve
I just booted into The 787 version for the first time. Bandwidth useage is minimal (avg 15kbps) and having the slow texture res issue…. Most of the textures all say “DSK” in cyan or blue (more cyan then blue originally, moving to almost all blue). Every short bit there is a “spasm” where bandwidth spikes. Then the texture display is full of other states, then returning to the DSK states. With this, there is a major “Fill In” of textures.
Framerates are varying by 10fps second to second (from 20ish to 35ish, average is holding around 28).
CPU: AMD2015
RAM: 2048
running with .7% loss (109 of 15719 pkts)
XPSP2 / NVidia 6800 GT card. (PCI Express)
February 8th, 2007 at 5:13 PM
This version is still causing serious texture corruption on my Relic ‘Resurrection’ bed.
I checked again with the store display versions and they are also corrupted. The maker (Baron Grayson) and I tested and the issue is ONLY caused by the current (and the previous version) FL viewer. The textures are perfect in the current viewer. I can’t find a combination of settings that stop, or reduce, the level of corruption.
BTW, this affects an entire range of products, not just a bed!
CPU: AMD (2411 Mhz)
Memory: 2047 MB
OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
Graphics Card: GeForce 7900 GTX/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW!
OpenGL Version: 2.0.3
LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
Packets Lost: 968/134421 (0.7%)
Viewer Digest: 7da5dca3-5bc0-696d-726d-363c346073a5
February 8th, 2007 at 5:15 PM
The defect I previously report (by accident twice) is much worse than I thought.
If I move the camera around while looking at a nearby object silhouetted against my distant “prim wall”, I get bits of the prim wall vanishing and reappearing as they go reappear from behind the object.
Little rectangles of blue sky continually appearing and disappearing behind the obstructing object, as my camera moves it about relative to the background.
The wall should be solid and not possible to see theough (as it is in main viewer). In FL I see the sky through big chunks it, whenever moving the camera brings a fresh bit of wall out from behind the occluding object (eg house).
Imagine a prim cliff behind a house, in which you see brief temporary prim-sized holes whenever you move your camera left and right. Every newly revealed bit off cliff starts life as a blue hole, then quickly rezzes, but just too late.
With my old card (see post above) this is REALLY bad. Anyone else see it ?
February 8th, 2007 at 6:05 PM
Steve
To see my bug, come to Paradox.
Move camera left and right fairly quickly while looking fairly closely at tree house against big Martian backdrop. See the awful brief holes through to the sky, at edge of house.
Or go into tree house, look out at backdrop, move camera about.
Clearly any prims hidden behind the house are having their textures unloaded the moment they are hidden, and even if they come back into view a second later, you have a brief but glaring hole.
Awful. My old video card - or general problem ?
Presumably a rotating multi-prim roundabout with half of it hidden by a wall would have the bits coming into view rezzing half a second too late, no matter that you see them again and again every second or so ?
February 8th, 2007 at 6:05 PM
I am at First Look Island and frankly, it’s not really going to be that helpful. 1) I am the only one here 2) while there are lots of brightly colored objects (and lots of gray ones), they are simple textures.
What you should be doing is sending people to an environment like you would find at a popular store with a ton of complex textures on simple objects - like vendors.
I am going to take this First Look over the Dazzle (Last Call) where there are currently 38 avatars and thousands of complex textures, tons of bling, flexi prims, etc. That will be an adequate stress test
Also - the damn stutter…yeah, it’s still there.
February 8th, 2007 at 6:14 PM
I take it back…Torley is also here.
/me waves
February 8th, 2007 at 6:20 PM
I’m attempting to run SL in a corporate environment but I’m having some serious problems.
My windows 2003 machine allows me to connect, but doesn’t allow me to leave my sim.
My windows vista ultimate machine’s hardware acceleration is disabled because my video card’s drivers don’t support setting hardware acceleration.
My macbook pro won’t connect because SL won’t use OSX’s proxy settings.
Are any of these problems being considered for repair in a future version? The only way I can connect with a working client is to take my macbook pro home, but my bandwidth isn’t close to what I have here at work.