The Second Life Land Management Forum has Closed
Friday, January 12th, 2007 at 10:31 AM by: Guy LindenWe have decided that it is time to close the SLLM forums. Issues that were once addressed in the land forum will now be handled by the support team via support@secondlife.com.
Second Life is much larger than it used to be and we feel that the land management forum has outgrown its usefulness. There has been confusion about where to go for help and what type of issues should be posted to this forum. Many issues are account related, or sensitive to residents, and a public forum is not always an appropriate venue to seek assistance.
Many land issues already go to support and it has become increasingly difficult to manage both outlets. Ultimately, all of the issues in the forums have been requests for support. As the community continues to grow, it is the right move to direct land concerns to the support team at a single destination.
We have compiled a Land Management FAQ to help with the transition. This FAQ will be expanded as needed.
January 12th, 2007 at 10:53 AM
The “support” email address has never been known to respond to anything by anyone I’ve ever spoken to.
Wouldn’t it be better to make a separate email address for land management enquiries, so at least the things you need to deal with are not caught up in all the abuse emails too?
I just hope this isn’t another step along the “talk to the hand cos we aren’t listening” attitude that seems to be more and more prevalent these days. Remember that it’s your paying customers that make Second Life what it is.
Broccoli
January 12th, 2007 at 10:54 AM
I don’t own land on the mainland, so I don’t have a dog in this fight, but can we assume this also means the eventual dissolution of Linden Answers? People might find changes like these are better digested if 1) they had notice and more importantly 2) felt like Support was responsive to their needs.
I think most residents understand the need for LL to implement systems that are scalable for a larger population, but the people who are Premiums are the ones who need the Land Management dedicated resources. It would seem they’ve just lost something else…
Take care.
January 12th, 2007 at 11:05 AM
Support emails, as mentioned above, NEVER gets any answers. If by shutting down the forums and continuing to scale back in your involvement with inworld disputes, please at least get support emails answered. Move like ALL of your customer service people there or something. I think residents would feel much more confidence in your company if we knew there was at LEAST 1 way to reach you and have things resolved… or even aknowledged. (By this, I mean 100% of the time, not just when we win the support-response lottery). =)
January 12th, 2007 at 11:08 AM
Well you gotta do what you gotta do Lindens. So it’s understandable. Thankyou
January 12th, 2007 at 11:14 AM
Very disappointing. You’ve not only done a sterling job of managing that forum Guy, but also helped me out several times in the past due to its very existence. (I doubt that would have been possible without it.) This seems like a funny way of reducing the customer service burden to me. That the LL support email address resembles more of a blackhole half the time is proof enough of that it’s already overburdened.
January 12th, 2007 at 11:14 AM
Indeed, there should be *more* reasons to go premium, not less.
Broccoli
January 12th, 2007 at 11:37 AM
support@secondlife.com = /dev/null/
January 12th, 2007 at 11:59 AM
I must agree that support Emails are fairly useless. if the SLLM forum is not useful, fine, but it needs a much better replacement. Guy - Please respond and address this. Thanks!
January 12th, 2007 at 12:02 PM
I’ve also been nothing but impressed with your handling of that forum, Guy.
I don’t mind sending requests for land management somewhere else… the land management forum had always struck me as an odd way to do things… but I’d like to know if someone at least as good as Guy Linden’s on the other end.
January 12th, 2007 at 12:05 PM
I believe you may be shooting yourselves in the foot with this sort of step. One of the wonderful things about a forum is that when one person has their question answered, so too can a lot of other people - who now have to ask their question as well, and thus take up more support time.
One good solution is a gigantic FAQ that is linked to from everywhere, rather than answering questions on a one-by-one basis. Every time a new question comes in via email, answer it on the FAQ, and point the questioner at the particular answer. Then everyone can benefit from the work of one person.
January 12th, 2007 at 12:32 PM
I have never failed to receive a response from support on any question that I may have had. I always get an appropriate answer that allows me to move forward or readjust my plans based upon the answers that I receive.
You must be well informed yourself in order to ask some questions in the first place.
Sending in a request for help that reads, “Dude, my partner is like in my group and stuff and she keeps doing this thing to our land and I can’t get it to stop. Can you fix that for us?” is probably not going to get a reply.
Geting help in SL or with any game, contraption, software. etc is quite often limited by terminology. While the knowledgebase probably does have the answer you are looking for, it can sometimes be difficult to locate. Payment, tier, rent, mortgage etc are used all over the game by residents but if you want to hunt it down in the knowledgebase you had better be looking for land use fees. As much as computers empower us, they can also stifle us with the need to input data specifically and properly spelled. If you do not know the terminology used for the data you wish to retrieve, you don’t get pertinent answers.
SL could use an urban dictionary of sorts.
January 12th, 2007 at 1:07 PM
Will the outstanding issues in the forum be handled? or do we have to re submit them thru the new venue?
January 12th, 2007 at 1:34 PM
Contrary to what a few have said, I have nothing but praise for the marked improvement in all of LL’s support services since I joined in September. All the folks at both concierge as well as regular help are both courteous, professional, and helpful, even when things are most stressed. Help Request used to be an open chat of annoyed people and non-lindens who couldn’t do anything for you anyways other than advice. In the last month that has turned around, and I thank LL for putting the effort in there.
Land Management Forum has outgrown its usefulness, but I do hope that they expand the FAQ into a full fledged wiki reference (and one you can actually find what you are looking for in, by indexing more than just technical jargon in the keywords).
January 12th, 2007 at 1:43 PM
@ Dirk - good point. It’s important to ask your question in a way that is answerable. Brief, specific, with supporting facts, etc. Good point.
January 12th, 2007 at 2:13 PM
As stated above; Support from Support is lacking. I do not blame the personnel involved here, rather, I think it’s a matter of organization and the need for more personel to cover the growth of SL.
In short, LL needs to grow as SL grows. More employees are needed to Support the higher volume of customers.
Making a switch in a current vein (even if it does not work as well as desired) should not be done until a new plan is conceived and is ready to be implemented.
In little words: Hire more before you shuffle more work onto an already overworked Support team.
~Jessy
January 12th, 2007 at 2:29 PM
Thanks for all your help in the past Guy, you and your team always kept the forum a great place to solve land-based issues.
I agree with most of the people that this public place was the best location to see and resolve issues such as broken roads or land in need of auction, but as long as support e-mails get the same attention I guess the Mainland will be alright…
January 12th, 2007 at 2:37 PM
The webhost I use has a ticket support system. When you go to their support webpage you start entering the info it asks kinda like what SL has now (http://secondlife.com/knowledgebase/contact.php but instead of the) except is has a drop down menu with options of what kind of support you need and then it changes the e-mail address to which ever department handles that subject. I would think SL has separate departments for support and each department has an e-mail addy specifically for it. like support.land or support.technical or support.griefers or whatever.
Anyway after you enter your info you are assigned a ticket. When support gets the ticket they deal with it and send a response and you can go to the webpage and enter the ticket info and check status of it. If it was closed andthe problem was not solved you can re-open it ect…
January 12th, 2007 at 2:38 PM
Just to set the record straight a bit, I did log a support issue with the support@secondlife.com address last night, and received an email response this morning.
Admittedly, by the time I received a response I’d solved the matter myself, and the response was more a “We see things seem to be back to normal so we’re closing this ticket” but it does at least prove people are monitoring that email address.
As to how efficient support would have been - or even if they’d have contacted me so quickly if I hadn’t obviously solved the problem myself… that I can’t comment on.
January 12th, 2007 at 2:49 PM
I am not going anywhere, the concerns that were once aired in the forums will still get attention. But, by routing to support, everyone should benefit from the additional attention available from the whole support team.
One issue that we have found with the forums is that many people were reluctant to post there because they did not want to share their concern to the entire community. This is a very valid concern. We have already been answering land concerns via support and consolidating the resource is the way to go at this time.
We have provided a FAQ on the Land Management issues and I do think it will be expanded in the future. At the bottom of this FAQ we have included a section on ‘Tips for emailing Support’ that will help us help you, when the time does come for you to contact us.
January 12th, 2007 at 3:08 PM
i already email you guys and i didn’t recieve my emails…
January 12th, 2007 at 3:18 PM
“Sending in a request for help that reads, ‘Dude, my partner is like in my group and stuff and she keeps doing this thing to our land and I can’t get it to stop. Can you fix that for us?’ is probably not going to get a reply.”
You know, I’ve never worked for a company where we were allowed to choose which emails we wanted to answer, based on how well phrased the question is.
Any email to support deserves a response, even if it’s, “Hi, I don’t know what you mean, can you please carify it?”
January 12th, 2007 at 3:57 PM
You’ve done a great job Guy and unlike many Lindens responded in a timely fashion to both Forum requests and inworld IMs for “help”. Let’s hope the new system works for you and residents a like.
January 12th, 2007 at 7:17 PM
Guy has been doing a wonderful thing with land issue problems. Now we have to send in emails? Say Sami said above steve does a great thing for the us. Not only one of the better respnding to issue but also making sure things get done! Lets hope the system is useful and prouctive as the one it replaced.
January 12th, 2007 at 7:33 PM
I’ve not seen a single reason now for a non buisness owner to buy land. At this stage, I never will.
A 512 land costs an insane amount to buy, when I can rent a much bigger place for cheaper.
So, why bother even trying to go premium? I’ll rent and use the spare money to buy nice things.
As for support, it is abysmal. My parter has lost over 12k worth of items in one week by rezzing them only to have them vanish.
She’s filled out numerous bug reports AND support emails. No reply. Help request tells you to “Check the blue dots on the map, they’re there” then they shut down.
Here’s an idea, why not actually just put up a middle finger graphic so we can at least see ourselves being ignored and blown off?
First off, we live in a big place. We rent it. 2800 a week. 1000 prims. Cheaper than buying land.
Second off, the items poof. They aren’t on the map. We’ve explained this, too. We get the same automatic answer.
Customer help is horrible. If you all plan to claim your improving, why not actually treat your customers like we matter?
How about some actual reasons to buy land? I’d love to own some, but with prices that high, why bother for such low prim amounts?
January 12th, 2007 at 9:29 PM
@ Sarge - you might tell your partner to check 0,0,0 on the sim she rezzed the items in. I found my no copy softa and my no copy modeling studio at thos coordinates on the island where I live.
Just a thought.
January 12th, 2007 at 9:52 PM
Adding my “yes, please” vote to the idea of a wiki.
S.
January 13th, 2007 at 3:48 AM
Dirk, you’re very lucky. The last time I contacted support by email (December) was regarding a tier mistake that would’ve resulted in my CC being overcharged. It took seven days to get a response (two days short of my monthly billing date), and in the days beforehand, I made several international calls because a response seemed unlikely. Nobody ever did call me back — as was promised when every single call was diverted to voicemail after a ten minute wait.
In fairness, I understand LL was addressing customer service issues at the time, so hopefully the situation has changed and past experience isn’t so relevant. And it’s great to see you’re going nowhere Guy. Point taken about the reluctance to share info in a public forum. This would often cause neighbourhood tension in itself…if both grieved and complained about parties were forum regulars.
January 13th, 2007 at 7:23 AM
Tis is simply another method for the Lindens to silence discontented residents, by shuttering a forum that was viewable to all. By shifting all issues to email, LL can hide from potential customers and investors the fact that the grid has serious issues.
Guy Linden, you did a fabulous job. I hope your dedication to customer service survives. You’re one of the few who demonstrate that they actually give a rat’s patootie about the paying customers.
January 13th, 2007 at 9:01 AM
Sarge, do the math. Your “rent” for 1000 prims is twice what the tier would be for someone who owned the land. Like renters IRL who are math deficient, you forget you are not only paying someone elses mortgage, you are paying their profits too, while building no equity. If you banked with an actual bank that actually loaned money to people like you to buy land (My Second Bank for example), you could save money by buying. My guess is your land lord is the person who actually owns one of those other banks that doesn’t lend money, and uses your deposits for their own sim purchases. All this is far off topic for the subject at hand though.
January 13th, 2007 at 9:41 AM
wonderful another way for the lindens to shut us out of getting any help. guess i’ll be calling for one more reason now because i for one refuse to contact support email because in the year i have been on here nothing i’ve sent has been resolved through that, get your phone lines ready cuz you can expect even more phone calls from me now
January 13th, 2007 at 9:45 AM
I also want to second Tamii Gwynneville on how fabulous Guy Linden was at keeping the land management forum current. before i’d make a post and it would take a week for a response. he was checking the forum daily. in my situation he was unable to help but he told me that in the forum. so WTG GUY LINDEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
January 13th, 2007 at 1:16 PM
No noticeable fps improvements.
On an NVidia 7800, it’s anywhere between 30-70.
I have noticed the app sometimes quits right after starting.
I start again and it seems ok.
January 13th, 2007 at 1:25 PM
I am a premium member, but unlike with any other service I have ‘paid’ for the customer service and support in SL is appaling. I have been in SL for a couple of months and have not had any major issues until now. My big issue was the fact I had tried to add some Lindens to my account. Instead of just adding 4000 Lindens, the system gave me somewhere near around 22,000! This equals about $90.00. I sent e-mails a week ago to support with no reply whatsoever yet. I also tried calling for an entire day before realizing that I would NEVER reach anyone by phone. After many unsuccessful tries the phone system will kick you from being in one of their queues to their voicemail system, which of course they also never answer. Now they take away this.
January 13th, 2007 at 5:12 PM
Just thought I’d add in to the previous expressions of irritation about this. The fact is, forums will always be more appealing to users, for two main reasons:
A: It allows one to review the previous entries to get an idea for what to expect, based on actual other cases–not a stock answer in an FAQ that may or may not directly relate to a specific problem.
B: It holds admin far more responsible than does an e-mail. People forget about e-mails and are too lazy to write them, more often than not. At the same time, there’s no real accountability, as it’s the choice of the other party just whether or not to actualy do anything about it. If the same response rate that applies to support e-mails prevailed in support forums, there would be a mutiny.
Unfortunately, aparrently, you’re aware of such things and would, indeed, rather have a grid full of unhappy but silent users than to have to deal with the issues behind that discontent. Forgetting what we want, since everyone knows that that truly only matters if it affects the money you make, the question then becomes, ‘just when will this slow departure from customer service cause such displeasure that it hurts the LL bottom line.’ I don’t have the numbers, so I can’t tell, but as a professor of mine once wisely suggested to us, in order to discover whether or not something results in a specific effect, apply it in the most extreme form. Surely, there is some point where the customer service will be so bad that everyone will leave. If LL fired everyone, stopped all maintenance, and ignored all issues, no one would be on SL. Just how much further you can go in that direction you have to go before it causes enough of a loss to be inefficient I don’t know, but I have to imagine that after the current publicity boom wears down and slows the rapid growth, or picks up to the point that not only the novelty of the app, but also the serious issues are covered in mainstream news, it won’t be in the best interest of investors to keep on cutting off support, ignoring issues, and being nonchalant about the problems with a product for which people are paying substantial sums of money. “The grid monkey is working on it,” “the grid’s still down, so go give RL a chance,” and “just e-mail support” can only live on for so long as viable stances before people take a permanent vacation from this place, either with some other activity or even with a supplementary app.
Now that I’ve gotten my mini-rant on the failures of LL out now, another big thanks to Guy Linden. Perhaps that’s why this annoys so many people. Land issues, in particular, can go forever without a resolution–particularly those minor ones like boundary violations that drive people crazy, but don’t seem like a big enough deal to warrant attention. Regardless of what that forum was meant for, it turned into a place for people to get quick, effective resolutions to all the issues with their land, by someone who was on top of every one of them and who no one questioned the judgement of. I, personally, waited months and submitted more reports & e-mails than I can remember to try to get an inactive neighbor’s prims out from over my place, and it was only when I finally gave in and resorted to a quick forum query that it was resolved within 2 days, without any incident whatsoever. Particularly since the issues that went in there were all affecting the people who are putting all the money into this thing–those paying 10, 100, or thousands of dollars in tier every month–this was not the one to take down. Put more people on it. Make it more organized with, say, a few categories for posts relating to specific types of issues, to make it more efficient. Anything. Shutting that down, though, is a big mistake, and certainly will make more than a few people at least think twice about that next jump in tier or that island purchase to which they’d been looking forward.
January 13th, 2007 at 5:20 PM
i have a porblem i cant log in why
January 14th, 2007 at 5:16 AM
hi this is fonzi felix im having probelms logging back in sinces yesterday i went to the sandbox and it kicked me off then i went back in it also kicked me off again third time i tryed when it loads it ends up at the half and it cuts off cuts second life page on my computer all i would see is my computer page i really like this game and i wish anyone can do something to get my second life back
January 14th, 2007 at 8:38 AM
BAD IDEA!!! the support e-mail has not been very reliable in providing help to people while the forums have. Not to mention, in a forum setting people can read other peoples issues, learn from them and find out if their issues are happening to other people. Leave the forums alone!
January 14th, 2007 at 10:49 AM
hhaahh…
não da nem grassa eu não consegui fazer a minha conta pocha
se auguem sabe por favor me manda um email me dizendo como flw!?
vlw pessoaul
t+
f
u
i
. [8)]
January 14th, 2007 at 4:51 PM
I`ve received a few e-mails from support, usually answering the minor issues questions and ignoring the more important things.
I always got some guy who could not speak proper english and was never a big help, but atleast he tried.
So they actually do respond, sometimes.
January 14th, 2007 at 9:54 PM
Yay! we will have to wait a couple more weeks for any thing to happen instead of 2 months it will be 3!! im so excited wooo now land that is noobified with crap gets to uglifie sims for longer thanks you guys.Why not just get more staff? land is important and support sucks!
January 14th, 2007 at 10:38 PM
jai telecharger votre jeu sa ne marche pas veiller me repondre en francais s il vous plais
January 19th, 2007 at 11:49 PM
I have written 5 emails to support since november and guess what, no answer whatsoever….. gg putting more support there
January 22nd, 2007 at 2:41 AM
[...] a cue from what Guy posted about the SLLM forums,‘we’ve closed the Linden Answers [...]
January 22nd, 2007 at 10:00 AM
[...] a cue from what Guy posted about the SLLM forums, we’ve closed the Linden Answers [...]
January 23rd, 2007 at 2:07 PM
[...] surprise when Linden Lab chose to blackhole two more last week without any warning whatsoever. Land Management and Linden Answers have now gone, and the doom-mongers are probably right that the end is near [...]
February 13th, 2007 at 1:04 PM
I found a website callitfake.com from a friend on his blog and it allows you to type in a message and send calls to other users.
The neat thing about it is it seems to spoof the caller ID some how. When you send a message, it shows the number you typed into the FROM field and the name you put into the NAMe field.
Once you enter the information into the form above, the number you chose to dial will be phoned and the selected voice will read the message entered. The caller id number can be made up, however it most be in the correct phone number syntax ie: 444-414-0000. Both numbers must include the area code for this form to work. Once populated and submitted your request is transfered to cdyne where the call is created.
Any one know how they’re doing this? I’m curious, I would like to do something similar without having the demo message at the end about CDYNE.
Check it out when you get the oppurtunity and reply if you know of any other options, how-tos etc. None the less callitfake is pretty fun to use to mess with friends.
February 21st, 2007 at 4:28 AM
A realy helpfull site!!!
Got it from google, as i have searched for some info regarding….e-gold.
gooffshore.
September 15th, 2007 at 8:07 PM
So I was off work and surfing and found this place and thought I would join up. I don’t have much more to say right now except I need to start reading some of the older posts to get up to speed before I can start posting.
Em
September 20th, 2007 at 7:23 AM
La qualita` migliore farmacia canadese. La spedizione mondiale, nessuna prescrizione.
Il piu` economico sull’internet! Visitare il nostro negozio!
- Il mecidine di Qualita`
- I prezzi Migliori.
- Tutti i tipi di droghe.
- Nessuna prescrizione ha richiesto.
- Compra il cialis.
September 20th, 2007 at 8:55 AM
stories of strip pokeplaying wet cum hot fuck mom bikini waxing university of hartford summer classes classroom etiquette masturbation clubs forced sex porno accolate and breast augmentation walmart women nude sexual attraction imprinting racing remote video camera lens marshall county assessor gay free sex pics thumbs which movies did renee zellweger star in
October 10th, 2007 at 6:43 AM
Hello
Money is the enemy of most entrepreneurs and marketers. Actually, that’s not true. The search for money, the need for money and the desire to spend the money you have are the enemy.
From movies (Superman vs. Syriana or WordPlay) to coffee (Maxwell House vs. Starbucks) to technology (Microsoft vs. a kid in a room in Germany) we see it over and over again.
First rule: great product development and marketing almost always comes from organizations that don’t have enough money. Having less money keeps you from trying to buy your way out of trouble.
Second rule: learning to live with less money means you will develop skills and resources instead of buying them. And it means that when you have less money (again), you’ll be prepared.
Third rule: When you need money for something specific, go get it. But just for that. With good terms. As soon as you spend money to protect your money or leverage your money or account for your money or send a message about your money, the money is not only wasted, it hurts you.
http://blog.cyberbucks.info
G’night
October 12th, 2007 at 1:04 PM
hi,
i thought i’d say hello to everyone. i’m new here.
veronica
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:25 AM
Hi all! All Best!
You will never be asked to download or install any additional software.
Just use programs you always use, like your favorite browser or download manager.
No rentals, you own what you download. The compelte movie is only from $1.99 to $4.99.
You can burn any movie you download to a CD or DVD. Watch movies on home video player with your family or friends.
rape
rat
real-estate-agent
rebellion
redemption
redhead
refrigerator
refugee
religion
remake
reporter
rescue
restaurant
restaurant-scene
restroom
resurrection
returning-character-killed-off
revenge
reverse-footage
revolver
revolving-door
rich-snob
rifle
ring
rivalry
river
road
road-movie
road-trip
robbery
robot
rock-music
rocket-launcher
romance
rooftop
roommate
rough-sex
rowboat
russia
russian-mafia
sabotage
sacrifice
sadism
sadist
safecracker
san-francisco-california
satire
scar
scene-during-end-credits
school
school-bus
science
scientist
scream
screwball
sea
second-part
secret
secret-agent
secret-identity
secret-service
security-guard
seduction
self-discovery
self-mutilation
self-referential
self-sacrifice
senator
sequel
serial-killer
severed-arm
severed-finger
severed-hand
severed-head
September 1st, 2008 at 3:52 AM
unmatched for tde effectively, ranch or construction sitе, Kioti Tractors are with all hustle competition tde oldest anoint in virtue compаct tractors. Smootd immutable 3 and 4 cylinder, principal coolеd diesel engines and undisturbed shifting synchro-commute or clutchlеss hydrostatic transmissions
muff barely manage totally unprofitable to hilt tdrough tde tоughest conditions. and, every new Kioti Tractor we command we side with by a 5 year / 2000 hour parts and labor limitеd the Mafia. Now tdat’s reliability you can guardianship on. Kioti Tractors are pricеd decrpeacefulness tdan competitive tractors in tdeir relevant clаss. kioti tractor parts real us today for a dethrone up (956) 464-7867 Donnа, Texas, (830) 816-1845 Boerne, Tеxas or (210) 635-8004 San Antonio, Texas. Cliсk on Kioti importants to see some of our celebrityd offers!
*Otder autdоrized Kioti Dealers may not be bestowal tdis extended the Mafia as standаrd junk witd tdeir tractors.
______________________
support @ greattractorsupply.com