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	<title>Comments on: Cory Linden&#8217;s Town Hall Transcript</title>
	<atom:link href="http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/</link>
	<description>By Linden Lab</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 08:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Clarrice Cinquetti</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-137133</link>
		<dc:creator>Clarrice Cinquetti</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:41:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-137133</guid>
		<description>quote:
Jeska Linden: Stephane Zugzwang: Are there plans by LL to deal with the eventuality of people using the source code to write robots - this could bring a see of changes, not to mention overload some servers or features or enable DOS attacks ?

Cory Linden: People will write bots whether or not we open source. The questions become what they use them for and how we want to get in that arms race …

Cory Linden: THe goal will be to give folks ways to identify and deal with bots if they become a problem


Isn't a problem for Linden Lab? 

basic free account, any other accounts = 9.95 set up fee. So in other words, shouldn't the person controlling the hundreds of *alts* out there be charged that amount per alt per your own website?

They are creating profiles, joining open enrollment groups...they should be required to follow the rules the same as the rest of us..

Get in the arms race baffles me, do you mean control the creation of massive amount of alts, or way to use them to your own advantage, such as camp pay outs? Whats next Money Trees?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>quote:<br />
Jeska Linden: Stephane Zugzwang: Are there plans by LL to deal with the eventuality of people using the source code to write robots - this could bring a see of changes, not to mention overload some servers or features or enable DOS attacks ?</p>
<p>Cory Linden: People will write bots whether or not we open source. The questions become what they use them for and how we want to get in that arms race …</p>
<p>Cory Linden: THe goal will be to give folks ways to identify and deal with bots if they become a problem</p>
<p>Isn&#8217;t a problem for Linden Lab? </p>
<p>basic free account, any other accounts = 9.95 set up fee. So in other words, shouldn&#8217;t the person controlling the hundreds of *alts* out there be charged that amount per alt per your own website?</p>
<p>They are creating profiles, joining open enrollment groups&#8230;they should be required to follow the rules the same as the rest of us..</p>
<p>Get in the arms race baffles me, do you mean control the creation of massive amount of alts, or way to use them to your own advantage, such as camp pay outs? Whats next Money Trees?</p>
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		<title>By: Scalar Tardis</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-136220</link>
		<dc:creator>Scalar Tardis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 05:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-136220</guid>
		<description>Regarding the question about LL ever using the PhysX physics accelerator.... that is not possible because LL chose to use the Havok physics engine to drive SL.

PhysX is more or less a competitor to Havok, and as such Havok has been making bold claims that "there's no need for a dedicated physics processor" and "there's plenty spare power in nVideo/ATI GPU's for handling physics". 

This is great for the home user, who may not need to buy another device for their gaming, but it also alas means that LL is effectively going to be unable to offer physics engine acceleration, because it is almost universal for datacenter-grade servers to not support high-end 3D graphics cards.

You can go out and buy a hot new quad-CPU $12,000 server from Dell.... and not find a single PCI-E x16 slot anywhere in that server. The best you'll find is maybe an x8 slot that can at least fit an x16 card, though it'll only run at x8 speeds.

And what with LL running a sim per core in these quad-core servers, that would require four PCI-E x16 slots, for four different nVidia/ATI GPUs as physics processors, one supporting each sim. I don't think four PCI-E x16 is possible, for even the highest-end insane-gamer systems.

So while PhysX is easily server compatible, plugging four cards into the totally standard PCI bus that every server on the planet offers, it simply will not work here unless LL drops the Havok engine.

SL is so deeply married to Havok they might have to practically start this whole project from scratch if they were to attempt to rip out their Havok core and switch to the PhysX-capable engine.

.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the question about LL ever using the PhysX physics accelerator&#8230;. that is not possible because LL chose to use the Havok physics engine to drive SL.</p>
<p>PhysX is more or less a competitor to Havok, and as such Havok has been making bold claims that &#8220;there&#8217;s no need for a dedicated physics processor&#8221; and &#8220;there&#8217;s plenty spare power in nVideo/ATI GPU&#8217;s for handling physics&#8221;. </p>
<p>This is great for the home user, who may not need to buy another device for their gaming, but it also alas means that LL is effectively going to be unable to offer physics engine acceleration, because it is almost universal for datacenter-grade servers to not support high-end 3D graphics cards.</p>
<p>You can go out and buy a hot new quad-CPU $12,000 server from Dell&#8230;. and not find a single PCI-E x16 slot anywhere in that server. The best you&#8217;ll find is maybe an x8 slot that can at least fit an x16 card, though it&#8217;ll only run at x8 speeds.</p>
<p>And what with LL running a sim per core in these quad-core servers, that would require four PCI-E x16 slots, for four different nVidia/ATI GPUs as physics processors, one supporting each sim. I don&#8217;t think four PCI-E x16 is possible, for even the highest-end insane-gamer systems.</p>
<p>So while PhysX is easily server compatible, plugging four cards into the totally standard PCI bus that every server on the planet offers, it simply will not work here unless LL drops the Havok engine.</p>
<p>SL is so deeply married to Havok they might have to practically start this whole project from scratch if they were to attempt to rip out their Havok core and switch to the PhysX-capable engine.</p>
<p>.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaphod Kotobide</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132976</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaphod Kotobide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132976</guid>
		<description>Oh no I realize that Antonius.. just saying I don't understand her reference to it, but her surrounding remarks make me not wanna try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh no I realize that Antonius.. just saying I don&#8217;t understand her reference to it, but her surrounding remarks make me not wanna try.</p>
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		<title>By: Antonius Misfit</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132967</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonius Misfit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:17:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132967</guid>
		<description>@Zaphod

The Al Qaeda ref was alluding to Rebecca's saying that opening the source was basically giving it to Al Qaeda. It wasn't a rip on you. No worries :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Zaphod</p>
<p>The Al Qaeda ref was alluding to Rebecca&#8217;s saying that opening the source was basically giving it to Al Qaeda. It wasn&#8217;t a rip on you. No worries <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Leam Cunningham</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132964</link>
		<dc:creator>Leam Cunningham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132964</guid>
		<description>Rebecca, I already pulled the rug out from under your examples.  You even list convenient exceptions to your argument as though they somehow don't count.  There is a distinct difference between source code and credentials, and you would do well to learn this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rebecca, I already pulled the rug out from under your examples.  You even list convenient exceptions to your argument as though they somehow don&#8217;t count.  There is a distinct difference between source code and credentials, and you would do well to learn this.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaphod Kotobide</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132961</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaphod Kotobide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:01:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132961</guid>
		<description>edit to previous:

the *sarcasm* tags were omitted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>edit to previous:</p>
<p>the *sarcasm* tags were omitted.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaphod Kotobide</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132960</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaphod Kotobide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 01:00:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132960</guid>
		<description>eh, I have yet to "get" the Al Qaeda reference.  But given the "arguments" surrounding them, I don't think it's worth trying.

And yes, the  tags were omitted.

Anyway I'm finished here.  You just can't fight FUD slingers with common sense.  Goes straight over their head.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>eh, I have yet to &#8220;get&#8221; the Al Qaeda reference.  But given the &#8220;arguments&#8221; surrounding them, I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s worth trying.</p>
<p>And yes, the  tags were omitted.</p>
<p>Anyway I&#8217;m finished here.  You just can&#8217;t fight FUD slingers with common sense.  Goes straight over their head.</p>
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		<title>By: Antonius Misfit</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132956</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonius Misfit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132956</guid>
		<description>@Zaphod

LOL! As I'm pretty sure you've read my other comments, I'll take that as a light joke. The guys at LL are pretty top notch from what I'm seeing, so "super secret keylogging password stealing $L transferring content stealing functions" are out of the question. Open source people aren't Al Qaeda, as some people may think.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Zaphod</p>
<p>LOL! As I&#8217;m pretty sure you&#8217;ve read my other comments, I&#8217;ll take that as a light joke. The guys at LL are pretty top notch from what I&#8217;m seeing, so &#8220;super secret keylogging password stealing $L transferring content stealing functions&#8221; are out of the question. Open source people aren&#8217;t Al Qaeda, as some people may think.</p>
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		<title>By: Zaphod Kotobide</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132756</link>
		<dc:creator>Zaphod Kotobide</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:36:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132756</guid>
		<description>Antonious - make sure you roll in a few super secret keylogging password stealing $L transferring content stealing functions while you're at it.  Apparently the guys at Linden Lab are too careless to notice!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antonious - make sure you roll in a few super secret keylogging password stealing $L transferring content stealing functions while you&#8217;re at it.  Apparently the guys at Linden Lab are too careless to notice!</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca Proudhon</title>
		<link>http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132750</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca Proudhon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Jan 2007 00:32:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/01/09/cory-lindens-town-hall-transcript/#comment-132750</guid>
		<description>"People are saying it’s impossible to completely secure Second Life because SL is a dynamic and ever-changing codebase. New points of attack open and close all the time — this is the nature of connected software. What people are NOT saying is that it’s impossible to mostly secure Second Life. The Open Source effort is a step in that exact direction, and you’d realize this if you’d stop stubbornly ignoring this mountain of supporting evidence that contradicts your belief that OSS = BAD."

Regardless of all your attempts  to state your case, you cannot and will not and never will, be able to contradict the reality.  The most successful computing business on the planet and the most successful MMO on the planet would never allow their code to be Open.  The only exceptions as I have said would be the Blizzard Bittorrent   
downloader, or certain specific used by Microsoft.  Unless it was a perfect world with no Al Qaeda or Al Qaeda like mentality.

You don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg, you don't give away the cow and since this is not a perfect world, with all good people,  you don't leave a bar of gold on a street corner, the codes to launch a nuclear missle laying about, or give away the front door key or safe key PROTECTING  other people's money.  Nor would you allow the counterfeiting of the US or other National Currency, a Rembrandt, or a Motion Picture, a Musician's creation or Pirated Software----unless you have a fundamental disregard and disdain for people, their rights and their money.

And for SL, you don't flagrantly destroy the faith the business people had in it by releasing the source code, giving up on the most important security tasks and then create a army iof irreverent hackers who ridicule your investors creations and demean the whole project by saying "we can't do it"  "security is impossible," "We can't afford to hire people so we need free labor"

That is not the way for Sl to become what is could be.

That is no way to run a Fort Knox.  This is not Brain Surgery and I am done with this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;People are saying it’s impossible to completely secure Second Life because SL is a dynamic and ever-changing codebase. New points of attack open and close all the time — this is the nature of connected software. What people are NOT saying is that it’s impossible to mostly secure Second Life. The Open Source effort is a step in that exact direction, and you’d realize this if you’d stop stubbornly ignoring this mountain of supporting evidence that contradicts your belief that OSS = BAD.&#8221;</p>
<p>Regardless of all your attempts  to state your case, you cannot and will not and never will, be able to contradict the reality.  The most successful computing business on the planet and the most successful MMO on the planet would never allow their code to be Open.  The only exceptions as I have said would be the Blizzard Bittorrent<br />
downloader, or certain specific used by Microsoft.  Unless it was a perfect world with no Al Qaeda or Al Qaeda like mentality.</p>
<p>You don&#8217;t kill the goose that lays the golden egg, you don&#8217;t give away the cow and since this is not a perfect world, with all good people,  you don&#8217;t leave a bar of gold on a street corner, the codes to launch a nuclear missle laying about, or give away the front door key or safe key PROTECTING  other people&#8217;s money.  Nor would you allow the counterfeiting of the US or other National Currency, a Rembrandt, or a Motion Picture, a Musician&#8217;s creation or Pirated Software&#8212;-unless you have a fundamental disregard and disdain for people, their rights and their money.</p>
<p>And for SL, you don&#8217;t flagrantly destroy the faith the business people had in it by releasing the source code, giving up on the most important security tasks and then create a army iof irreverent hackers who ridicule your investors creations and demean the whole project by saying &#8220;we can&#8217;t do it&#8221;  &#8220;security is impossible,&#8221; &#8220;We can&#8217;t afford to hire people so we need free labor&#8221;</p>
<p>That is not the way for Sl to become what is could be.</p>
<p>That is no way to run a Fort Knox.  This is not Brain Surgery and I am done with this thread.</p>
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