Feeling Buggy?
Sunday, January 7th, 2007 at 3:15 PM by: Robin LindenOn Wednesday January 10, with the new release, you may go to file a bug report under the in-world Help menu only to discover there’s no link there.
We’ve moved the Bug Report link to the Tools menu because we’ve discovered that many people use bug reports to tell us about a problem they’re having. By doing so they think they’ve filed a request for help with the Support group. However, bug reports don’t go to the Support team, and also don’t get a response. Consequently many people expressed anger about not getting help, while we didn’t know they needed it.
We really appreciate you letting us know when you think something is broken, and certainly hope you’ll continue to file your bug reports at Tools>Bug Report. It’s most helpful when you give us as much information as you can so that we can reproduce the problem and fix it. Please remember though, bug reports aren’t a request for help!
January 7th, 2007 at 3:21 PM
Thanks for the heads up! I thin kit would be helpful to get a response to ticket #’s on bug reports so we at least know that they have been looked at and actioned in some way… just a suggestion.
~Franky
January 7th, 2007 at 3:21 PM
Feeling buggy is an understatement
Lets hope we take 1 step forward, and not 4 steps back this time… 
January 7th, 2007 at 3:40 PM
It’s more to say the bug team doesn’t respond to help requests.
January 7th, 2007 at 3:46 PM
Thanks for the info :)))
If it helps clarify lines of communication, this can only be viewed as a positive act by LL. Well done Lindens! Always great to see SL move in the right direction.
But Robin, lets not be too disingenuous. Many residents have historically been guided towards “bug report” by Lindens themselves as the recognised means of getting their technical issues resolved. Is it any wonder peeps get confused?
(Oh, slightly off-topic regarding recent blog items, would y’all *please* stop messing with the comments facility….either allow residents to log comments or remove the facility from the blog permanently. Its VERY frustrating to see public opinion being restricted in such an ad-hoc manner)
January 7th, 2007 at 3:46 PM
Hopefully things will smooth out soon… Patience is a virtue (and a NECESSITY if you are a SecondLifer
January 7th, 2007 at 4:00 PM
No wonder my bug about searching my group has not been fixed ;-(
January 7th, 2007 at 4:15 PM
Feeling Buggy?
Gee why would I feel buggy? Uploads aren’t working, Teleports aren’t working. Packetloss is at an all-time high on almost every SIM in the world. Some private islands weren’t even available for more then 24 hours, EVEN after they were reported as such. Creating PRIMS was almost impossible all day yesterday. Paying for services was almost impossible all day yesterday. Teleporting was damn near impossible yesterday and is still quite SPOTTY today.
Feeling Buggy? NO, I’m starting to feel quite disappointed in Linden Lab and how they continue to IGNORE problems! It’s time to STOP thinking of Second Life as your own personal Social Experiment Philip and start thinking of it as a BUSINESS!! It’s time to put your programmers to work on the BUGS and take them off their “PET PROJECTS”. It’s time to start treating the Residents as PAYING customers, as MOST of us are, and fixing the world we all have grown to enjoy so much. Failure to act will do one simple thing, cause the Residents to lose complete confidence in the world and abandon it. I would hate to see that, I myself enjoy Second Life immensely and I’m one of the most PASSIONATE Residents in Second Life, but I’m past the point of feeling buggy, I’m quickly approaching FRUSTRATED, and after that, I fear what it might be.
January 7th, 2007 at 4:16 PM
@Bob Bunderfeld@
that’s right! rock on!
January 7th, 2007 at 4:18 PM
Honestly. Linden Lab certainly tries to fix the problems. When you look at the code they’re using, it’s complex and icky and out of date. There is a reason why problems like this happen.
On the other hand, I do think that Linden Lab could focus on the problems and at the very least acknowlege them. While many are, they get the reputation of not listening to us because the problems never seem to get fixed (in fact, they usually get worse).
January 7th, 2007 at 4:20 PM
Well I placed my issues in another thread yesterday and described my issues….
My comments got moderated out becuase I used the words ass and crotch… I do not know any other way to describe that my head and hair keep ending up some where eles other that on the top on my neck and head.
This is making me frustrated. I got a message in my personal e-mail that I should log on to see what was resolved… So I logged back on to SL and Poof… nothing
Please fix my bugs so I don’t have to moderated out again… I’m really not being funny.
January 7th, 2007 at 4:21 PM
Unfortunately many people feel powerless as there are a HUGE amount of bugs and if LL are not already aware of them then they are blind.
The fact is we put up with a lot bugs its part of daily life in SL having to relog numerous times etc if LL feel this is just fine ‘n’ dandy then again they must be blind….towards the future of SL that is.
If everyone was to actually report every bug they suffered then i doubt LL could deal with the sheer volume.
Stop trivialising things by calling them Hiccups or saying you have “grid monkeys” “bashing things” when the grid goes down which it inevatabely will be doing so again soon i fear. I want to know when these bugs are going to be fixed for good not just patched up so SL slumps and stumbles forward like some sick man on medication.
I do love SL its an awesome thing and i applaud LL for its creation and maintenance but i and many other people are getting tired of the problems that occur all the time. Please more time and resources spent on sealing up what we got already than adding cosmetic features!
January 7th, 2007 at 4:35 PM
Honestly, I think something like Mantis or Bugzilla, with the Report Bug feature as a basic front-end, would go a long LONG ways to allowing residents to help you find and fix bugs.
Bug reporting was NEVER meant to be a one-way street. I mean, after all, do you take your car into the shop, give them a 30-second description of what it is doing, then expect to pick up your car in good working order in a couple days, without ANY further communication?? It doesn’t happen that way anywhere else, why do software companies think they can get away with being different??
January 7th, 2007 at 4:40 PM
Talarus,
Hopefully they will heed my suggestion to roll FVT and Bugs into one bugzilla with voting enabled.
They said they were working on a FVT replacement, I just hope they don’t bungle it up. The software is out there. Having it tied into the normal authentication system is unnecessary. Thousands of open source projects operate daily on public bugzillas, some of them with a larger code base and user base than SL I’m sure.
January 7th, 2007 at 4:42 PM
I don’t mean to sound over-dramatic, but my doctor thinks I’m developing an ulcer. He asked me to take a vacation from whatever it is that is bugging me.
I like the new features that were added in the last SL version… or at least the intended improvements. However, besides all the things that we all are already complaining about, I want to add that almost all my “sit-method” teleporters are no longer working correctly or even at all, a very big part of my business. The very business I decided to take on full-time starting this month after quiting my real-life job.
For all my customers that have had perfectly good and working short-range teleporters for the past 5 months that keep IM’ing me to say that allofasudden they just stopped working I guess I should say that I no longer reply. Just like Linden Labs and their black-hole Bug Reports.
I sent my bug report, but I would love some sort of response from somebody as to whether this is an issue anyone is aware of, and if I need to update my products or flat-out remove them from the shelves? Should the sit-method teleport hack be removed from the lsl wiki? Am I crazy? And where is my Mylanta?
(PS. I do love Second Life very very much. There is no other place that I would like to work. I just wish that it itself would work.)
January 7th, 2007 at 4:50 PM
I love Secondlife. I am glad that I met a good guy in there. ha ha, i didn’t want to date in the first place anyways but he wanted to help me, so okay. also i can’t use the forum
January 7th, 2007 at 4:53 PM
wouldnt it best to have bug report be good under the section file
cause then everyone would look there more then in tools
January 7th, 2007 at 4:54 PM
We all except there is bugs etc…. And yah !!! for a better report system!!!…. But enough is enough….
The last 3 days on SL has been as fruitful as a burnt out orange farm. LL promotes getting big business in here creating content and showing there wears but if they had people looking into the place the last few days they probably laughed and said lets make some brochures.
My RL wife and I create content for SL in the form of clothing we have a great little business that we would love to see grow… we love SL really really love it! But there needs to be changes not new add ons… changes to exisiting issues in the form of resolve. Is it really a true bonus for LL to having 2 million users registered with full inventories and only 15% of them are paid contributing members. It has to be aload on the system having dormant accounts. Come on tell us what we can do to help !!!?
Lets get this place up to scratch and enjoy it … rather than roboting around sinking into the ground and crashing.
January 7th, 2007 at 5:00 PM
I have noticed that several items in my inventory have gone missing. How could I report that as a bug seeing as I cant tell you all how to recreate it.
January 7th, 2007 at 5:17 PM
I have an idea on how to reduce the bug reports. How about solving the major problems before adding more features. Stop making SL look pretty and try to get it to work. After two and a half years in SL, I am appalled at how poorly Linden Labs is now being run. I’ve watched quality degrade over the past year to a point that I will be removing my recommendation at my agency to purchase sims for virtual training.
January 7th, 2007 at 5:31 PM
Some of these critical posts are like the car drivers trying to tell the engineers how to do their jobs.
I want to be one of the cheerleaders and say thanks for the informational post that didn’t even warrant comments being turned on unless the Linden staff want to hear from satisfied customers.
Maybe I will join the jaded mob someday but I am still amazed by how well all this works. I live so far out in the country that we just got high speed internet at home a few months ago although I have been using it for years at work and on the road and I feel lucky to even be able to get in the game let alone expecting something that has never been done before to work so well. If anyone thinks there are any great problems with SL and has never worked on a project before, go contribute something simple to an open source project then come back and look at SL with new eyes.
January 7th, 2007 at 5:33 PM
So it was our fault all along for posting our damn support problems in the bug hole , messing up the works. Tell you what .. why dont you add an option to to let us post diffs too so you not only dont have to do any qualification at all , you dont have to do anything.
No offense to all the no doubt highly intelligent SL userbase , but passing support requests that turn out to be bugs is the job of first line support not the user. Why do you expect someone who has no knowledge of the current code base or known issues to be able to differentiate between what is a support request or a bug report.
January 7th, 2007 at 5:41 PM
My Subscription comes up for renew January 19th, 2007, i’ve seriously convinced myself, with the last 2+ months of Horrendous Service, not to continue paying for a Premium subscription. Convince me otherwise.
convince me, that My Monthly subscription, is going to offer me a game I can play anytime, without days of continue non-operative gaming, a game that will Allow me to actually run a profitable business without ALWAYS being down or having me trapped in a location, I can’t possibly get out of. A Game, where, I don’t feel that I have to ASK for reembursement, everytime I can’t log on, because someone, who probly is not a paid subscriber is attacking the grid with some hacker script…
So I ask you, Do I pay my subscription dues come January 19th, 2007? Or do I just go back to being a Nonsubscriber?
January 7th, 2007 at 5:48 PM
I already sent my driver’s lincense for the age reqirement email…
January 7th, 2007 at 5:53 PM
didn’t know there was bug report… cool.
January 7th, 2007 at 5:56 PM
I’ve only been a member of the sl community for about 6 months but from the start I have been a PAYING member!!! I have been trying in vain, so far, to launch my sl business. Bugs, changes to scripting that are not annouced and down time have slowed and halted most of my efforts. I love SL and the freedom it gives me to design and build, but I am really sick of several of Linden Labs tendencies since I have been on.
1) Linden Labs seems to cater to freebie accounts more than paying ones.
2) They seem completely incapable or disinterested in fixing long term problem and bug that plague all citizens of sl.
3) They use the second life world to beta test all their pet projects instead of fully testing thing out before implementing them.
I Spend a lot of money to enjoy my Second Life please Lindens I beg you: Help us enjoy the
Second Lives we all have worked and paid to enjoy!
Don’t beta Test our Second Lives to Death!
January 7th, 2007 at 5:58 PM
yeah and i have to sell my land, you guys! way too expensive. one of my resoultions for the year is not to buy any more stuff from the websites
January 7th, 2007 at 6:02 PM
@Bob Bunderfield: Right on! I could not have said it better, though I have said it differently, several times already. Well, what wall shall we talk to next?
January 7th, 2007 at 6:03 PM
That’s cool. Good job.
January 7th, 2007 at 6:11 PM
when are they going to fix it though?
January 7th, 2007 at 6:20 PM
thanks for tell us though
January 7th, 2007 at 6:23 PM
To all complainers:
LL posts a good idea. You whine and whine about non-related things. Bob, if you want LL to be such a business why don’t you try a game made by SOE. I’m sure you’ll enjoy their rudeness, ignorance of compants and good maintnance. LL has a hard job, give them a break.
January 7th, 2007 at 6:28 PM
what SOE
January 7th, 2007 at 6:34 PM
I give up. I’ve downloaded this thing twice onto a machine that is pretty high end (used for video editing) and the thing locks up on me. I had intended to recommend to my business partner to use this virtual space to create machinima for business use but I can’t now.
This sucks.
January 7th, 2007 at 6:53 PM
This is a big point that seems to have been missed:
Many residents have historically been guided towards “bug report” by Lindens themselves as the recognised means of getting their technical issues resolved.
I’ve always thought that this was a bit odd, for the same reasons that Robin Linden mentioned. In the support business you need to have some kind of trackable support request mechanism, as well as a bug report tool. Right now if you need support there are multiple email addresses and a couple of forums, and no way of knowing whether your request was lost, discarded, or still under consideration.
How about it?
January 7th, 2007 at 7:15 PM
I’ve been a paying resident in SL for over a year now, and also one of your loudest evangelists. Whenever someone naysays what is happening here, I support Linden Labs and the amazing creation they have built. I own about a quarter of a sim now, and I have to say that I am really disappointed with the declining availability of my purchase over the last several months. As Bob stated above, packet loss is insane, even in my sim, which is only split in to 4 (usually unoccupied) sections. I have trouble logging in, rezzing things, and today, I can’t even get to my land. I keep the SL blog’s feed in my reader and I am constantly reading how you can’t access this or that and how bugs that were thought fixed are still recurring, making it impossible for residents to get in-game and play.
I run a website that has about 15k members - about the same amount as what SL has online at any given time. I understand the trials and tribulations of maintaining order among that many people and keeping bugs to a minimum. I know that things happen and you can’t always be perfect. But where I really see Linden dropping the ball on this is by NOT offering any kind of compensation to paying members when the service is not available. When I cannot access my PAID account for more than a few days a month, I ought to be offered those days tacked on free to the end of my susbscription, AT THE VERY LEAST.
I subscribe to a plethora of sites online where I am happy to pay premium prices for the services I use, and not a single one of them has ever made me feel as ripped off as Linden Labs does. For example, Livejournal.com was down for about two days a while back and gave every paying member a week extra on their membership for their trouble. I don’t know a single person who makes a living on their LJ, either.
I really hope that Linden Labs starts to recognize the kind of traffic they will start losing if they don’t start taking care of the people who support them. I read an article the other day about how much electricity it takes to run those servers of yours… it’s going to get really hard to pay that bill when nobody trusts you beyond a free account.
Sincerely,
Thaumata Strangelove
January 7th, 2007 at 7:16 PM
Should we file a bug report on Wednesday when the link disappears?
(Honestly I don’t care which reporting method I have to use, as long as there is something. 99% of the time if I can just get an honest answer one of the following, I’d be satisfied:
“a) Wow Cat, this is a new one on us, thanks” or “b) Thanks Cat, this is a known issue but not many people have it.” or “c) Thanks Cat, this is a known issue and we are working hard on it.”
January 7th, 2007 at 7:23 PM
I think a lot of people do not know the difference between a bug and something gone wrong because of lag or other network issues SL is plagued with lately. The last two days have been miserable for my club build.
Things don’t rez, takes 30 seconds for things to delete, can’t walk 5 paces without falling through the land and rubber banding back, go for more than a few hours without crashing, weird double teleports that end up with me having to log out because I loose all movement capabilities after the second TP that I didn’t choose to happen, textures not taking effect, items that I placed disappearing then reappearing hours later, items simply vanishing without trace ($6,000Lworth), ocean and other water not showing up (this really sucks because my club is beach based and no water makes it/me look bad and most people do not know to go to region to see water), packet loss spiking every few seconds to 54%, chat not showing up in a timely matter and sometimes not showing up in the right order or not at all and objects not taking effect after I move them (they move back were they were before the move…) and scripts acting strange or not working at all.
These are just the things off the top of my head. It has been a real pain in the neck trying to make product to sell and content for my club let alone making it possible for my guests to enjoy the club.. All those things in my opinion are NOT bugs, just lack of a smooth network that can handle all the people. How do I come to this conclusion? Because when there is less than 10,000 on non if these things happen…. I don’t make any “bug” reports on those things because I don’t think they are bugs. I also don’t bother with support anymore after the last time I used it. When I ask for the lagg to be fixed because I can’t build anything I don’t want a reply with a link in it describing what lag is and for it to be expected….
ANyway my point is maybe education on the difference between what a bug us and what maybe a network caused problem.
January 7th, 2007 at 7:31 PM
“Please remember though, bug reports aren’t a request for help!”
Um?????????does this mean asking to correctly fix the Japanese SL client is asking for “REQUIST” This is really cute!……….Hey there are people really using a japanese OS here and not a translation program etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!!Now please explain how does this fall under “Please remember though, bug reports aren’t a request for help!” This is what wrong woth bug reports now a days. At times the follow the ones that are so so easy to fix and just let the other fall to the side! PRICELESS!
January 7th, 2007 at 7:42 PM
as a burnt out orange farm?
January 7th, 2007 at 7:43 PM
“as a burnt out orange farm?” WOW hot juice
January 7th, 2007 at 9:00 PM
I love SL. I love the things I can do there, the looks, the friends I have made in it, the things I have learned…
And I am not the only one… Many players love SL, the media love SL. Businesses love SL. It is all the rage. And there are good reasons for that, because it is cool, fun, new, original, wonderful…
But… I know, and every regular user knows, it has grown more and more buggy, recently… Well, it has been for some time. Lately, it has become extremely buggy. ‘Stumbling like a sick man on medication’, seems quite apt.
Maybe the design of it all is such that these problems are extremely hard to fight. But, dear Lindens, you MUST fight these problems if you are to progress from brilliant pioneers to something more. It is growing, despite the many frustrations users have, because of what it is. But, those frustrations are not just felt by a few. The things you read above are the sentiments felt by the vast majority of regular users. We love it. We want it to succeed. And we very much want it to work as intended. Please, manage this apparently very hard thing. Scale up in a big way, hire the brightest of the brightest (well, those not already working for you or too busy playing SL) and make Second Life something less like a Bug’s Life.
January 7th, 2007 at 9:54 PM
So now I understand, there is no place to get actual help. Filling a bug report allows you know things are broken like random items form my inventory that dissapear. Live help says clear cache relog and file a bug report if that does no good. (they are just doing what they are told they can do)
The bottom line is that I will not recieve any real help to get my items back, ever, period. Not even through the support email can I expect help. In fact your post does not tell us where we can look for real help it just says that we cant find it in bug reports.
Great job guys (sarcasm) I really feal like the Lindens as a whole care about me as a person, a customer, a person that used to put real money into a fake world.
January 7th, 2007 at 10:05 PM
I would love to rez some 600lb hyper-animated and heavily armed grid-monkeys in the LL datacenter and see how LL explains that outage =)
January 7th, 2007 at 10:07 PM
Honestly, some of the people complaining are whiners; conversely, some of the “self-appointed defenders of the faith” are just as rediculous.
Yes, it is a tough job, I am certain of that. Mine is too. I make sure your next-day packages get there the next day. If they don’t, my company eats the cost. It’s called doing business. It’s what people do to make a living. If you want to get by on happy feelings and good vibes, join a commune.
SL, hyped though it may be, is at a critical point. Just as you wouldn’t hand your package to “Bob’s Best Package Delivery,” the Lindens are currently poised to come across as ammateur hacks to a world that could care less how hard it is to run a network.
The sad thing is, like many, I have sat and discussed with friends and techies how 3D environments like SL and WoW are glimpses of the future of the internet. Yet, WoW, an unrepentant game with no attempts to be more, several times as many subscribers, and an incredibly stable environment, at this point has a better chance at leading the way into a “metaverse”-like internet than SL, which, in contrast, is the only thing right now to make the Mid-East appear stable by comparison.
Marketing is not everything, and it would be better to have a stable and usable product with fewer subscribers than to have millions of would-be creators who can’t create anything.
There are alternatives, infantile in stages though they may be, and if I see no improvement in the next week, I will sell my land and stop taking seven hours to create what could be created in other environments in half-an-hour at most.
Lindens, remember, no one creates the future, every great creator has simply been a surfer on the waves of inevitability. If you can’t handle the wave, someone else will.
January 7th, 2007 at 10:29 PM
“Please remember though, bug reports aren’t a request for help!”
This is why I no longer habitually ask for help. Every issue I have ever bugged LL about has been due to a bug.
January 7th, 2007 at 10:30 PM
Being german my english isn’t that good, so please allow me a question:
Naming the title of a blog entry “Feeling Buggy?” — is this what is called sarcasm?
January 7th, 2007 at 10:31 PM
“But… I know, and every regular user knows, it has grown more and more buggy, recently… Well, it has been for some time. Lately, it has become extremely buggy. ‘Stumbling like a sick man on medication’, seems quite apt.”
This is so true. I use to do alot of promotoing of sl. But after some of the drama in the helper groups, bad CS for issues that should have never happened to me etc. Its like LLabs is nolong the company that was user content supported. They really don`t care as they once did. Once your on their crap list or some llabs worker hit list ( for some childish reason ) kiss your abiilty to gt problems soved you might have. its so sad.
January 7th, 2007 at 10:40 PM
warda LLabs is not even close to be what thye use to be……for some very strange eason llabs has turned teh otehr cheeky to issues. why? and for what reason they caused person for those that helped for a very long time is still unknown. In my early days it was all about helping the community, And those like myself that sent in bug returns issues that hurt the games, mentoring greeting etc….. seems to be forgotten but LLabs. Drama seems to be the problem now a days. But that what you get when you hire people that are unstable to start with.
January 7th, 2007 at 10:54 PM
What gets me is everyone admits theres bugs and problems including the Lindens - well where my account credit ??? Why am i paying full boat for something that works half assed!!!!
In any other business when you get crappy service and complain you get some type of credit/discount/consesions from the company - why is it I am expected to pay full price when you can’t deliver what i am paying for ?????
I really would love to hear the linden take on this ….
Do you pay full boat for a half eaten hamburger from McDonalds ??? So why is expected from the Lindens, i pay full service and yet you continue to sell me a half eaten sandwich - you offer a service - now step up and deliver it or credit everyone for your downfalls and there loses.
My Two Cents and Taft’s Peanut Gallery comments
January 7th, 2007 at 11:06 PM
For me the latest rash of bugs is more bad timing.
I just repaired my laptop and for a while I was thinking the increased ping was SL alone but when I get like 90% packet loss my friends got 0%. This pritty much isolates it down my my computer and it means I’m needing to do more work to fix this sucker…
Or buy a new laptop.
January 7th, 2007 at 11:08 PM
I just upgrade my computer, and I still having issues. jeff don`t feel bad. It might be your end at all.
January 7th, 2007 at 11:28 PM
perhaps if there was a way to better educate new players rather than drop then straight on in and then maybe we can also drop the number of times a day i hear “so what do i do now”
or “whats this all about what can i do here”
January 7th, 2007 at 11:30 PM
also jeff could be your internet provider and the quality of their connection to you, lots of factors not just your computer
January 7th, 2007 at 11:41 PM
“jon grommet Says:
January 7th, 2007 at 11:28 PM PST
perhaps if there was a way to better educate new players rather than drop then straight on in and then maybe we can also drop the number of times a day i hear “so what do i do now”
or “whats this all about what can i do here”
There is they are called mentors……and greeters.
January 7th, 2007 at 11:43 PM
sl is unplayable,unless of course you are a noob with no payment on file who is only here to #@*&. You are thieves to take my rl cash and provide no product or service. I can not tolerate this loss of inv., nor can i succede in anyway as a builder, buyer of land(search sucks and should not include the exploit of land for rent) or as a vendor because the lack of bandwidth does not allow creation. perhaps i will sell my $L for cash, recoup my investment and move on.
January 7th, 2007 at 11:54 PM
Ok, I understand that online worlds have problems, but wow does SL have some righteous ones. I don’t expect much, but I do expect my avatar to be able to move.
Yup..move.
… the latest bug is one the REQUIRES the move control window inorder to move– if that works (many times it doesn’t). It is so much fun have my scripts fail, my skin vanish (along with stuff in my inventory), and be rooted to a spot.
*smacks self* Why am I paying for this?
I would blame my computer or my connection… but SL USED to work.
It sure doesn’t now….*sigh*
January 7th, 2007 at 11:55 PM
Whenever I get down and worried that people won’t (fail to) read a blog post and then whine and vent in the comments about something completely unrelated I scroll down a few inches, and voila, my fears are assuaged.
Thank you, brave blog posters, for not raising my opinions of you. There’s no hope for you yet.
January 7th, 2007 at 11:56 PM
Arislyn: I would blame my computer or my connection… but SL USED to work.
what do you mean used to? I got boatloads done tonight.
Maybe you should go back to blaming your computer. I’m blaming it!
January 7th, 2007 at 11:58 PM
Good for you AzraelB!
Enjoy it.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:00 AM
ok totally unrelated but here we go!
The mighty LL banned me from my own sim 3 days ago, for giving my business partner one of my renters information, firstly the renter agreed to allow this to happen, someone else saw it and reported me.
I was banned without so much as a warning for 3 days. I have sent emails, my business partner sent emails, EVEN the renter in question sent emails to say it wasnt an issue!!
But of course none of the emails were responded to.
This ridiculous ban has left me out of pocket, VERY frustrated and annoyed.
I cant understand how LL intend to keep paying customers on the books when they treat them like this.
Now the ban has expired and guess what? I STILL cannot access my sim and property!!!
THANKYOU LINDEN LABS FOR RUINING MY SECOND LIFE
January 8th, 2007 at 12:06 AM
i honestly have not seen many problems in the past few days, only time was when the sim i was on went down due the upgrade in Texas.
infact i think the past few days have been an improvement on the past few weeks, the grid hitting 20,000 and hardly any problems.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:14 AM
Don`t you love these people that one on here and stay things they have no idea how this game works? The again there llies the problem on sl. Many people just don`t know or understand this game.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:21 AM
“hooligan balboa Says:
I was banned without so much as a warning for 3 days. I have sent emails, my business partner sent emails, EVEN the renter in question sent emails to say it wasnt an issue!!”
Sad facts are they don`t even cough at you CS reports on issues. AGain it all deoends onthe linden reading it. If its the linden tha banned you there is noway their even going to touch that report. Next time call CS and deal with it. You might get lucky
January 8th, 2007 at 12:29 AM
I have an idea. How about you just get the bugs FIXED.
Maybe that lack of response is really part of the problem that you have. Just how are we to know if you have even seen the bug report, if there is no answer and NO FIX.
This is bad enough for some bugs, but when they are ones that LL has introduced, and then just does not bother to fix (and there are quite a number of those at this point).
Maybe, just maybe, the reason that people are getting angry in the bug reports is because NOTHING is happening as far as anyone on the outside can see. All we see is the introduced bugs still present release after release.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:30 AM
Sensible solution Robin.
I’d like to make one point though. I don’t know whether there’s anything that could be done about it, but it is rather frustrating for the dedicated bug hunter.
I’m one of the people who takes bug reporting seriously and as a tool for helping YOU guys correct problems, not necessarily as a quick fix to my own (I certainly don’t expect feedback). But most of the bugs I’ve encountered, which ARE frequent and reproduceable, even spanning MONTHS, don’t end up on the ‘known bugs’ fix list :/
So I can only assume that not enough people are reporting these bugs, or the reproduceability is account/situation specific, so that your techies are left scratching their heads and dismissing them as a flight of fancy.
I won’t stop reporting bugs… but I have to say, I am left wondering sometimes whether my problems are unique! (And I know they’re not because I’ve talked to many other users in-world or on the blog who experience the same problems.)
It strikes me that this, rather than lack of immediate help, may be what is frustrating other bug reporters. We don’t expect someone to come back to us but we DO expect the bugs to go away eventually…
January 8th, 2007 at 12:44 AM
how can one tell all the time the difference between a bug report and request for help? if a pivate sim keeps on crashing consistantly, is that a bug report or a help request? and which department should the help request go to? the concierge? that is another blackhole in itself…
LL, we know you are running a complex world here and there are sooo much to do. but as a paying customer here, your product’s performance is less than satisfactory. and if this does not change, your paying customers will run out of patience and leave.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:48 AM
Azrael B file an abuse report on me now because so help me if I ever stumble across you in-world I am going to orbit your ass so high and then so deep underground your avatar will be snapping like a rubber band the way the rest of us do frequently with the VERY common bugs experienced by most SL residents - though apparently not by your good self.
You are a priceless little tit and I expect I speak for many when I say I would seriously love to roast your head.
January 8th, 2007 at 12:54 AM
Abyssin that is the problem at times. So many bug reports that are users side problems ( not enough Ram, incorrect timing on cpu clocking etc….. Now there is one person in the mods theese days sending tons and tons or fruitless bug reports Some that never should be sent in the first place. WHen i look at the new client release notews and see thing that I NEVER experienced in bugs said ” BLA BLA is has been FIXED” I think? what? where how? I play sl a large part of the day and when i see these reports facts posted i just cry! I understand llabs coders are under alot of pressure. But having Bug hunter happy nuts sent in reports that are users systems problems….There lies the problem………We need a better more correct way of measuring problems and issues that relates to the CLIENT and not to those that are foolish enought to believe its not their system causing crashes but indeed it is..
January 8th, 2007 at 12:59 AM
Incidentally I would like to put it on record, despite the many problems I know people are still having (and I feel for you, I’ve been there, I know what it’s like) last night I noticed we hit over 24K residents inworld **BUT** apart from a bit of lag my friends and I managed to hang out together in our home sim and did not experience any bad problems at all. (Of course we weren’t trying to build… but tp and assets were functioning well.)
I’ve also noticed a vast improvement in Linden information in the blog, especially from Pathfinder who is a credit to your team. I think you’re heading in the right direction at last, so credit where credit is due.
So whatever you’re doing right, LL, all praise and keep on doing it ^_^ Now let’s just keep our digits crossed that things continue to get better for everyone.
And let’s just hope Wednesday doesn’t see a return of the last Update of Doom…
January 8th, 2007 at 1:01 AM
Pathfinder among a few others are indeed the main stable source of infor on this blog. agreed! Let hope they keep up the great work! 24k in world wait until we reach 30k if we stay togther in one piece.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:02 AM
I started using SL a few days ago. Yes, it’s buggy, and crude, and largely unreliable.
However, it WORKS. I’m usually a very, very picky person when it comes to bugs, but I shrug them off in this case because SL is such a good thing, conceptually.
Things will improve, I’m certain.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:06 AM
Paid members must not complain about getting less care than free members, since we are ALL getting a lack of support, If Linden labs was really full of intelligent people they would listen to the problems their product has. In the meantime the liasions told us to file bug reports, which turned out to be for no individual use at all.
The major issues are
-Teleporting is impossible
-Passing a region might be lagged, and you just fly further(lagged) without any control which after you get send back.
-Inventory disappears often leaving 10000’s of L$ damage, the guy who is to support his issue, Beast linden is NEVER online any other linden in his bug team also is never online.
-Extreme lag, because of why?, rapid member growth which linden labs can’t handle, probably in the worst case scenario this game goes P2P
-Extreme packet loss, lindens think they solved so much with their last router updates, while it has also done the exact opposite
-Server down times are incredibly long, because they bury themselves in shit, it’s harder to get out because it gets all sticky and smelly.
-Live help request doesn’t help shit, since the people there have absolutely do not the power they need
-The friendslist is lagged showing friends online and offline incorrectly
-Login is troubled because the regions are lagged
-People camp the welcome areas, which is the place where you go when you crash, thus automatically teleporting in the worst shit ever
-Second life crashes all the time due to poor client coding.
Or in other words, lindens made a sucky game for the money it gets, probably the lindens have high payments, and they don’t care if we lag ourselves since they get the money.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:09 AM
@Usagi (and all other believers in the “it’s not SL it’s your Client” mantra)
When a computer exceeds all specifications for the software it is running, when components have been updated, checked and double checked countless times by a qualified computer tech, when the system does not experience ANY problems with ANY other software including the most cutting edge system intensive games on the market, and by system I’m including the cable network…
… Don’t you think that unexplained crashing *solely on the SL platform* has SOMETHING to do with SL and not just the client?
This may not be a programming bug in the traditional sense of the word, but like websites which do not work with 100% of browsers, you cannot deny that the fault lies with the software. Okay it may not be possible to get it working with every conceivable system, and okay some users probably do have underpar systems.
But please believe that SL has some pretty unstable characteristics which any software developer could pinpoint in a nanosecond. Maybe it’s to be expected from a project of this magnitude and originality, and I sympathise with the Lindens who keep scrambling to fix stuff, but please DON’T patronise the residents who are experiencing difficulties through NO fault of their own or their systems.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:14 AM
Fledhyris,
my point is the incorrect bug reports that are being set in………..The tons and tons or reports that are more user based then sl based!……..Thats my point. Whatever the the case we need a redoing on how bug reports are done and how they are looked at by llabs. As you might know the SL interface need a total redoing at some point inthe future.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:30 AM
@ Usagi - No argument there.
@ Robin Linden - just remembered something I should have added in my FIRST comment on this post.
People who suffer inventory or parcel loss of items are INSTRUCTED to send a bug report.
If bug reports do not result in individual assistance, then I take it we can assume LL are not doing ANYTHING to recover these items, merely noting that losses occur and (presumably) taking steps to prevent such from happening in future?
I think it would be good customer service to outline explicitly for your residents what steps to take, and exactly what kind of response, remuneration etc. they can or cannot expect in situations of this kind. It might also cut down the bug reporting as people give up and go away ;-(
January 8th, 2007 at 1:42 AM
a long time ago Bug reports had some use, but now a days………I not so sure.
January 8th, 2007 at 1:58 AM
“This may not be a programming bug in the traditional sense of the word, but like websites which do not work with 100% of browsers, you cannot deny that the fault lies with the software. Okay it may not be possible to get it working with every conceivable system, and okay some users probably do have underpar systems.”
Since we are on this line of thinking…………….How about upgrading the users playablity spec here shall we…..I sorry but bare bones just does not cut it anymore. Even my computer which was not buy that long ago needed a 1000.00 upgrade………Now I not copmuter stupid by no means. But the nightmarish sl client long withthe money chair laggers are causing alot of users to either upgrade or just leave! I building one more computer inthe coming months, and thats IT!
January 8th, 2007 at 2:00 AM
You know, there is one feature that I think is way important.
Instead of loging us out when a sim is going down, or if the sim crashes, set it so that we get auto-teleported HOME. Surely it should be easy enough for the client to recognise a dead sim and say “oops! gotta change regions to home!”
Of course, if it’s home that crashes, then well, we logout, or bump to another sim nearby.
yeah, this needs to go into feature votes. but that area seems to get ignored…
January 8th, 2007 at 2:03 AM
Ugashi, I just built a machine in November for $500. Runs SL great.
athlon64 M2 3500+
geforce 7600 PCIe 256M
2GB ram.
300GB sata 7.2k rpm.
19″ flat panel.
where?
fry’s!
January 8th, 2007 at 2:11 AM
Ahzzmandius well i buildt mine with very good specs…….and at a good price. I ran will for a very long time. Until LLabs start screwing withthe client and causing oter related issues……
my specs as they stand
ASUS A8N-SLI Motherboard Premium
ADM 4400 amd 100 watt
7900 gtx 512 Graphic card
2 hitachi 250 sata drives
Liberty 620watt Power supply
……….Now I running very good these days when the SL client is fartingup a lag storm.
My older system servered me well for 1 1/2 years…….But the need to upgrade was there. My 3200 amd and 6600 gt was a wonderful system. But If your in very heavy using sims or islands you FPS rates are not going si high because of the lack of LLabs hardware etc……….
January 8th, 2007 at 2:17 AM
Wow, lots of moaning. LL already know the problems, if you keep moaning it’s just going to waste there time reading through them all. :p
I doubt you could have everyone fixing bugs anyway, “Too many chefs spoil the broth” comes to mind. XD
Though, I would prefer something like Mantis to submit bugs reports and feature requests to. :p
January 8th, 2007 at 2:30 AM
shakeshead…………:/
January 8th, 2007 at 2:54 AM
Hello ;D
Please make the Grid stable. This weekend was not good for the SL community. The sims have so chatlag, that we not make a little party. And on this sims was not many ppl.
MAKE the Grid stable and then come with new features. That is the best and only way.
Greetings
Bogus Curry ;D
January 8th, 2007 at 3:00 AM
I will be afraid that there will be a script limit
I have experiend a enourmous LAG only one stuppid walked into the region with just to much enabled scripts…
January 8th, 2007 at 3:54 AM
Thanks for the heads up!!!!
No just kidding - I am just pretending to be part of the gang.
January 8th, 2007 at 3:59 AM
‘bug reports don’t go to the Support team’
Really? You people crack me up!
Still, it’s easy to see what a high priority customer support has always been.
January 8th, 2007 at 4:06 AM
OK, time to easily end the arguments.
We need an entirely new Menu (the Shite Menu?), that can include things such as:
Annoying “feature”
Asset Server Issue
Av moves but Skirt Stays Stationary
Chat Lag
Chat Reordered
Confirmation of Unconfirmed Problem
Constant Crashes
Double tp leading to hard crash
Feet up your ass
Failure of Auto Return
Failure to Buy
Failure to Log On
Failure to Rez
Failure to Save Clothing
Failure to tp
Feature Reported as Resolved But Not
Friends List disappearing
Head On Backwards
I Got A Better Computer But Things Are Still The Same
I Love Linden I Have No Problems Whatsoever
Inv not remembering Changes
Invisible Avatar
Lag Report
Missing Inventory
Missing Money
Missing Water
Network Error
Notecard lack of permissions to open
Script timeouts because too many users
Search Down
Search Error
Sim crash
Slow Inventory Loading
Sunday Night slowdown because of no staff
Texture Preview showing wrong dimensions
Too Many Users
Useless Update
Unwanted feature
Oh, and maybe Bug Report?
January 8th, 2007 at 4:44 AM
@Inigo,
As I am sure you know, support traditionally is the ugly step-child of the software industry. Millions are spent on developing, marketing and selling systems, only to be lost when customers are left holding the bag. This has been going on since the abacus, version 1.1.
I hope LL finally does hire the support director they’ve been advertising for months for; someone with some chops. This is a *tough* and often thankless job and often the Lindens we throw rocks at had little to do with the problem at hand. I am sure it’s no fun for them, either.
And.. not that I am telling LL what to do here, Robin
, but the idea of not channeling bug reports though support first is… buggy. Support is *the* ideal and proper place for triage. If those reports are going though to engineering directly and bypassing support, the front line to customers has been crippled. But… I don’t work there and I don’t know how things are set up, so admittedly my comments are made in the dark. Just, please consider funneling it all though support. I know that you guys are discussing splitting support into tech and governance, so this may be a good first step. Some dev-level support people would be good to have on hand.
Sorry all for this long-winded comment. Someone pushed my support button. :))
Thanks much for your update, Robin!
-tom
January 8th, 2007 at 5:45 AM
I’m not using some super fantastic computer, nor do I have excellent (hell, even RELIABLE) Internet service where I live- so I must be the luckiest person in SL to have experienced very little of these horrible, earth-shattering and life-changing bugs that everyone else has. When I worked customer service for an ISP, in a former life, there was a joke about answering every technical problem with the response “Check the cable, stupid!”. Now I am by no means suggesting that everyone out there has a cat chewing through their modem lines or a dog outside digging up wires, but if there are people who don’t have issues with SL on a daily basis, it may not be that SL is as totally hosed as the continual complaints suggest. Problems often are lurking much closer to home.
If it’s just that unbearable, remember it’s only your SECOND life, and things could be worse. Your FIRST one could be going to hell in a handbasket.
January 8th, 2007 at 5:54 AM
well travel around sl then post again heheh
January 8th, 2007 at 6:32 AM
Daisy, I have some decent PCs with a lean and clean OS, newest drivers and a fast and