Search Places Online
Wednesday, December 13th, 2006 at 1:45 PM by: Jeska Linden[3:45pm PST] Search Places is back online, thank you again for your patience. Further explanation: recently we implemented a way to ‘turn off’ parts of search when the database load becomes too high. While we’re working toward not having to ever turn off Search, as we scale certain systems, we want to keep the impact as low as possible (instead of turning off all Search, we can turn off only Search Places).
[1:45pm PST] Due to heavy database load, we have temporarily taken Search: Places offline. Please watch this blog for more information and thank you all for your patience.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:48 PM
I hope it is Temporarily and comes back up soon otherwise i will be pissed.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:48 PM
ugh not again! Come on guys…search seems to always be going down for some reason or the other
December 13th, 2006 at 1:49 PM
I already AM pissed. But no big surprise there huh?
December 13th, 2006 at 1:53 PM
The system in place should be able to handle heavy database load, if it can’t then it isn’t a very suitable system and holy knows what they will do when sl becomes more popular and they have 20000-30000 users logged in at anyone time, search/events will be offline permantly.
December 13th, 2006 at 1:58 PM
I’m fine with the searches being down…but i can’t see my avatar, clothing, can’t get maps to load, and i keep floating off!
December 13th, 2006 at 2:00 PM
This is ridiculous guys. Why on Earth would you initiate an update without expecting this? Of course there’s going to be a big database load. Everyone’s logging on at once! STOP UPDATING SL UNTIL YOU HAVE SORTED OUT THE CURRENT PROBLEMS! We don’t need these pointless Friends updates & changing of button styles when all it’s going to do is make the current problems worse!
December 13th, 2006 at 2:02 PM
Maybe now is the time to reconsider weither the local cache should always be purged
when restarting SL. This would eleminate redundant downloads and free up bandwidth.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:04 PM
Seriously, money transfers should be on a separate database system. I can’t tell how many times I’ve had “the request timed out” when one of my scripts are trying to pay out money. This goes for vendors with partner commissions, blackjack, poker tables, slot machines, rent-o-matics, basicly anything that pays or takes money.
The last couple of weeks have been horrible! A virtual world so heavily commercialised as SL should have a fail-safe money system. It is a scandal every time one of my clients don’t get their money! The worst part is that I don’t get any messages about failures when I’m offline, so I have no way of knowing if my clients tell the truth when they IM me about it unless I’m in-world.
I’ve talked to people that have had to buy more than 100KL$ to cover for money lost in database failures. I’m so happy I’m not into high-stakes gaming right now! And not happy with the current state of affairs.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:06 PM
here we go again / perhaps by 12-25-06 / we can have our 12th day of Christmas song /oops sorry 01-03-07 is next scheduled update
December 13th, 2006 at 2:11 PM
The Search>Places Lament Haiku…
Search>Places, tired friend
Show us your pain, won’t you please?
We can’t find escorts!
You didn’t think I was through for the day, did you?
December 13th, 2006 at 2:14 PM
To clarify, we recently implemented a way to ‘turn off’ parts of search when database load becomes too high and we monitor this throughout the day. So when one particular part of the Search is causing heavy load, in this case “Search: Places”, we can only turn off that part instead of the whole thing. We’re obviously working toward not having to turn off Search at all, but in the interim, as we scale systems, we’re trying to keep the impact as low as possible.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:16 PM
so does this mean we get another (useless) free week?
December 13th, 2006 at 2:16 PM
Are updates not supposed to IMPROVE things?? come on guys, Every update seems to throw up problems that never existed before!
Nice as the new friends feature was in the last update, maybe you should concentrate on making the stuff that’s already there work proberly first.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:19 PM
People. Use the search on the map. It works
December 13th, 2006 at 2:20 PM
Not only that but e=xperienceing many of the same bugs as last update, including some that appeared to have been fixed. Spending more time in world bug reporting than doing anything else.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:21 PM
Needs more map search usage.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:22 PM
We’d better not be getting charged for listings in search places, because seriously, we’ve had what, 5 minutes out of the past fortnight where we can actually access the damned thing? And it worked just fine before the update =/
December 13th, 2006 at 2:22 PM
@Shadow
That works for finding sims but not for doing things like keyword searches. It does the job only when you already know where you want to go, but not to find new things.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:23 PM
@ Shadow - That doesn’t really allow us to search for a particular store, does it?
To some extent a person can use the search on the website. I used that last week to find Hinkley Engineering for some scuba gear.
Of course Search>Places has a heavy load…I consider it the most valuable search tab of them all and others likely do as well.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:25 PM
Come on, Residents of SL!
Use your ingenuity, your savvy, your khutzpah, and your innovative and curious nature to find ways to work around this recurring problem…stop waiting for Linden-gods to make your business/place of interest findable, and make it happen…after all, what good cursing the clouds when rain falls on your outdoor bazaar???
If you have a business that relies on Search-Places to survive, then take the time you spend here ranting at the gods to go back into SL, where the problem lives, and find ways to take the load off your income and off the Search functions…and while you’re at it, visit all those “businesses” that persist with their perpetual yard sale and **Ingo adverts that SOOOOOO clutter up Search-Places as to render it essentially unuseable anyhow, and let them know how they impact life beyond their own borders!
PS Wish I knew the answer, but alas I am program/protocol-illiterate, but I KNOW, after being in SL for a few weeks, that YOU do have the answer…out there somewhere is a SL rezi that just hasn’t applied their skillset to this problem yet…being inept, I will wait along with the rest, but if you are “The Chosen One”, please step forward soon! (:
December 13th, 2006 at 2:27 PM
Ho hum, so what else is new?
December 13th, 2006 at 2:31 PM
Personally I bow down before our Linden overlords.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:33 PM
ummm.. did I hear a Linden say they monitor activity and disable the parts people are actually using? I.e.; they see search places is being used heaavily so they turn it off? Why not disable the mainland instead. That should help the load a lot. Or maybe even delete the mainland and all the free accounts. Or maybe make a mainland sl for free accounts and leave people with means a nice place to conduct business without all the retarded no money no value morons walking around with genitals hanging out asking for sex.
Its a nice idea to disable things but your going at it the wrong way Lindens.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:33 PM
I think the word “temporarily” is not really appropriate here anymore.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:34 PM
Ohhhh where did all the shortcuts go?
alt-a is not working anymore for circling around your avi .. and the return button doesnt open chat anymore when youre in your inventory .. nore closes chat when you hit it if chat is empty … *drop* O.o
whyyy?? ohhh why?
December 13th, 2006 at 2:35 PM
Is it not about time that you invest in some server upgrades? it is become pretty clear that second life does not currently handle all the users.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:36 PM
So does temporary mean it will be down for as long as it was the last time? sheesh… Do we get a part refund for some of all the money we throw into this game? I’m starting to get pretty annoyed.
Listen! Search is a HUGE part of SL gameplay. Lindens, please, it’s christmas soon, shopping is NOT easy without the Search Places. Bring it back online.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:40 PM
This one may not make the morning Blog…
Does anyone currently run an off-Linden/SL website for business owners to post both their advert and their SLURL link? I’m thinking something in the way of having to PayPal the webmaster if you want to post your business advert&SLURL (that should eliminate some of the flood of borderline-SPAMvertisement traffic, making it more friendly for the potential customer, too???). You know, kind of like a SL YellowBook/YellowPages???
If it’s not up, it should be…imagine how it could reduce the high-drag/lag on the Search servers…and if it IS up, for OMFG-sake, can someone please post that website multiply, visibly, and loudly for all to know???
December 13th, 2006 at 2:42 PM
I wonder why the search is constantly going down lately. Is it due to the high traffic in SL? Also, will we be recieveing a refund. Lindens, please fix the search option!
December 13th, 2006 at 2:42 PM
I have one thing to say about this,
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
December 13th, 2006 at 2:45 PM
@ Bobbyb30 Zohari
They take it down on purpose because of the “heavy load”. Which probably just means their servers are cr*p and they need to get some more servers because they obviously can’t handle their own success. (Read: All the users they have).
They can’t find any alternative ways to deal with this.
—–
Yes. A company can grow too big for it’s own good.
I wasn’t going to preach doomsday, but Lindens, if you don’t watch out, you’re creating your own downfall I’m afraid.
I can’t imagine my day without SL - yes I’m that addicted - but SL is starting to feel like torture.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:47 PM
This exact problem is why I decided to close my store and to NOT upgrade to a Premium account. Glad to see I made the right decision.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:48 PM
Is this a re-post? Seriously, it’s gotten old. The meaning of temporary is really being stretched.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:51 PM
Shhh..don’t tell anyone but the search on secondlife.com works as always with all the same keywords, but no fancy pictures and bells and whistles. All a place has to do to is “publish on the web” in their About Land menu (which most businesses do). If you’ve just turned that on it takes a little while to update.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:52 PM
Is this connected in any way to my repeated “Attempt to rez an object failed” errors? Building isn’t fun with this happening 9 times out of 10.
Broccoli
December 13th, 2006 at 2:52 PM
Can we get an update on what’s up with time dilation, sim fps, and the presence issues (sim border crossings almost never work now, and you keep flying and have to relog). Trying to walk or fly around Second Life is next to impossible. Showing Second Life to existing and potential clients is currently extremely embarassing because with these bugs, it’s basically unusable, unless you’re sitting in one spot, don’t move, and don’t mind text not showing up, or showing up out of order and late (thank you, packet loss).
It reflects badly on many of us with real life clients, so it would be really nice if we could get an update on what’s being done to address these problems (which have been around for quite a while now). Right now, Second Life is like a Ferrari with a great sound system that doesn’t have tires or gasoline, and it’s quite frustrating.
Thanks in advance for any updates you can provide on resolving these most critical matters. Without fixing the key issues of sim time dilation and presence issues, EVERYTHING else is window dressing.
Regards,
-Flip
December 13th, 2006 at 2:55 PM
STOP ACCEPTING NEW RESIDENTS FOR FREE. It has been a year since you opened the doors to anyone who wanted to come in. Close them to punish yourselves and to take a load off of providing free assets to people that play this game for a week. You ruin my desire to play this game and you waste the little resources you have LL.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:55 PM
If my understanding is correct, Linden Labs uses mySQL for the database backend. I know I will get flamed right and left for this, but my opinion of mySQL is that it’s not ready for handling huge loads like SL undergoes. I don’t know why LL doesn’t move to Oracle or SQL Server and ditch mySQL. The costs might be higher but it’s clear the current db’s can’t handle it.
OTOH, it could be the business layer where all the problems lie, and SL could be strung together with duct tape and bailing wire. But I’m sure using mySQL for something this huge and dynamic doesn’t help one bit.
December 13th, 2006 at 2:56 PM
In Honor of Jeska’s Haiku Day, all I have is this:
Second Life lives! Alas…
Residents crave perfection,
While offering what?
December 13th, 2006 at 2:56 PM
(Takes deep breath.)
The sun’s going down. I can’t go play in the sunshine like I normally do when SL is acting the fool.
(Takes another deep breath)
If services we’re paying for (like ads is Search, Places) are being turned off, we deserve a refund. If my cable company turns off the cable because there are too many people watching TV, I get a refund. Same with the phone company. Do the right thing Lindens, fix the problem, turn it on, or refunds are in order.
December 13th, 2006 at 3:00 PM
…. can I add “failure to teleport anywhere” to the list?
Broccoli
December 13th, 2006 at 3:09 PM
@Scout
Without the million+ “free” accounts that occupy SL (which would be how many of the 700,000 plus logged in within the last 60 days?), the other people blogging here about their loss of functionality would not be here…there would be no SL-revenue,and there would not be any interesting places for you to go, or things to see, or friends to meet, because there would not be enough consumers spending Lindens to keep SL right side up, in the virtual sense.
SL is much more than a game, and frankly the term “game” does all who work SO hard to make it a complete environment great disservice. Please take time to look around, and to really discover that, though there are many games being played within SL (many of them quite good), you have so much more to gain by your time here than earning a few points, or levels, or gaining a few virtual coins.
December 13th, 2006 at 3:10 PM
Search is back (at least right now) and teleporting works, the sim to sim bug is fixed. I’m happy
December 13th, 2006 at 3:14 PM
Search place is useless if you are “Not Allowed in that Region” Why has nothing been said about fixing this MOST ANNOYING of all bugs?? It still remains broken even after this update. Are we to be relegated to tp’ing to the mainland as a “work around” for the rest of our SL? If so…just come right out and say it..I will move my business to the mainland, as this seems the ONLY destination with some consistency. Also group members STILL cannot set home on Island Estates. Please…PLEASE give some priority to these issues, they are literally killing businesses.
December 13th, 2006 at 3:14 PM
Well if “teleporting” and “rezzing objects from inventory” are fixed, someone should tell the Sandbox Island Extension as I’ve been stuck there unable to do anything except fly around and try to avoid the green trailing follow-griefer things for the last 20 minutes.
Time to log out I think… if it’ll let me.
Broccoli
December 13th, 2006 at 3:15 PM
Just wondering… is the search places database too large to download to our machines like inventory loads? If not, why not cause it to download like a copy of the Yellow Pages with a timestamp to update places that have been added each day. There could also be a user option to purge the local database (when we want to take the time) of places no longer valid…. ?? If this can be done, couldn’t it be an option to do before we actually sign in through the SL software?
What SL is doing is innovative and, I think, still in the development stages… meaning this concept may very well become a norm for most internet activity. It’s fun to be a part of it.
My last statement didn’t reflect a charge for being listed in places… so why is a refund necessary?
December 13th, 2006 at 3:20 PM
OMG…OMG!!! Estate to Estate tp is WORKING..OMG!! as well as “Set Home” I am going to set up a tab at the Crowbar for you guys!! OMG!! /me does a happy dance :))
December 13th, 2006 at 3:22 PM
I do hope you find a way to get a handle on this Seach thing, because Search is the engine that drives EVERYTHING in SL - people, places, events, shopping, you name it.
It’s kind of like (excuse the poor analogy) a big shopping mall before Christmas. When too many people pile in, the mall management shuts off the electricity, and the lights, elevators, and cash registers go out. Sure, people can still mill about in the darkness, but that kind of goes against the whole purpose of the mall.
coco
December 13th, 2006 at 3:25 PM
I’m having some strange issues after the update..it runs worse. One thing I noticed is now I have to hit Esc to get rid of my text bar (instead of Enter). My main problem is that even though my graphics settings seem to be set the same…it looks horrible…like i’m running a 64MB PCI graphics card instead of my 256MB AGP…super blocky. Also, I can no longer view Events….
Man, I wish I didn’t have wireless now….the lag is more frequent.
December 13th, 2006 at 3:32 PM
Hi Jeska,
I know this would be a redical suggestion but to alleviate the databse problem altogether, Linden Lab might consider removing the search mechanism from the game and place it on an external website. When people want to do their search, they jusy open up their web-browser and look for things. This might be another good source of revenue for Linden Lab also by charging for advertising space. IMHO, puttin the search function inside the cliant app is not a good idea in the first place.
Sincerely,
Sakura Hilra
December 13th, 2006 at 3:58 PM
*adding myself to the growing list of disappointed residents…again*
I agree that something needs to be done about the search issues. My businesses require the search places and search events to be active in order to be profitable. Honestly…the SL business owners are the ones being hurt the most here and we are the ones that supply the most! If not for those of us building and selling and clubs entertaining what would SL be other than a place to wander around as generic avatars and Chat. Not much different then the Instant Messengers out there with customizable pictures…lol…just in 3D. Please..for the success of SL…make things a little more business friendly. We have to have a premium account and Pay for the right to BUY land then we pay money for tier fees every month…then we put in our time to create either products or entertainment to sell..then we PAY AGAIN to advertise…then we lose money and time when the search is down or some other catastrophe. Honestly..i would just be happy to break even again! SL is becoming too expensive for me. How about make the general public pay and give the business owners a break? You would cut out the one-weekers and be limiting the game to more serious, devoted residents…therefore increasing the virtual economy.
And please…refunds for the downtime of the Search Events/Places…please, please, please, and thanks
December 13th, 2006 at 4:04 PM
ok heres my deal.. those of us who purchased islands in the last month.. recieved thier island somewhere around what the 18th of Novemeber.. give us two weeks to get our shops up.. close our old shop cause everything is looking good.. then bam slam us with no search functionality.. what happens to the money that we are trying to make to pay for this whopping 1200 USD.. not linden USD that we came up with in the first place.. not to mention the 200 we are paying month to month for something that now is worthless.. yes you finally got search back up but what good is it if tomorrow you shut it down cause traffic is high again.. or the next day or day after.. I have gone from 2k-3k a day down to where Im lucky if I see even 1k.. there was a period of almost 5 days in a row I got 0 sales .. so now I have a sim payment to make..
in a normal month.. I would have enough for my payment.. this being xmas month I would have even more.. but because of this mess of a server overload.. Im having to bring money in.. I know.. those of you with free acounts are thinking wah poor baby.. he has a sim..
I dont have a problem with a free acount.. I have one myself.. as well as having a premium acount. what I think is a problem.. is the accounts that have no payment info on file.. basically.. 1. they are not paying for any service
2. they are not contributing to anything
3. they are an extra load that shouldnt exist and is making the rest of SL (heavy traffic) run like dog.
so SL.. whats the deal. Do we.. who just bought these sims.. and havent had a chance to get our traffic up like the pre- existing sims have, get anything more than a “thems the breaks”? no.. I didnt think so..
December 13th, 2006 at 4:10 PM
Hang on a mo… let me see if I understood this correctly.
When the in-use load of a part of search is getting “too” high - ie: places, they turn that bit off.
What?
So u shutdown the most popular functionality because it is getting used for what it was intended?
Look - to point something out once again…
The Search “problem” was used as a reason previously for the poor bandwidth and packet loss and overall drop in performance recently.
Have you even noticed, that when u “turn it off”, nothing essentially changes for us?
The packet loss is still there and the bandwidth is still rotten at times and grey prims abound.
Sounds like u need to get a grown up DB and cluster in place and geographically cache things.
Yah its hard - but it works.
Ummm - and to anybody in previous comments telling business owners to find another way instead of search…. LMAO
Would u suggest that the internet commerce sites channel people some other way to allow google to sit back on their service delivery? - I think not.
::rolleyes::
December 13th, 2006 at 4:11 PM
Sakura:
“I know this would be a redical suggestion but to alleviate the databse problem altogether, Linden Lab might consider removing the search mechanism from the game and place it on an external website. When people want to do their search, they jusy open up their web-browser and look for things. This might be another good source of revenue for Linden Lab also by charging for advertising space. IMHO, puttin the search function inside the cliant app is not a good idea in the first place.”
I don’t see how this would alleviate the issue as regardless of where the interface is, the database still has to perform the query and return the results. The data is in… well, the database.
December 13th, 2006 at 4:15 PM
Ok…
Ims dont work people are not recieving ims and are maked as offline when there online….
Buying lindens does not work have to relog to get lindex to authticate you
Friends list dose not work all my friends are online….yet my list says off
Just a few new things to add to the search being offline after update…:)
December 13th, 2006 at 4:26 PM
Words cannot describe how infuriated I was upon reading this. This update was entirely useless if the database is still broken.
December 13th, 2006 at 4:35 PM
@ Parsimony
If LL was paid for each account, they would be in a better position to provide the search database and whatnot. Its the paying residents that pay for a broken system at the moment. LL seems so concerned with turnout to see their world that they let anyone in for free to tax their limited resources. It use to be a trial membership and then you had to pay. Most games you have to pay to play online….so, SL shouldnt be any different, and it would give LL more cash to fund their little server farm better…instead of hiking land tier and turning off search.
Free accounts can stay free accounts…They should just shut the floodgates…especially when they cant offer the full potential of something as basic as a search engine.
December 13th, 2006 at 4:35 PM
Re: Sim fps/time dilation/sim performance.
I’m going to ask one of the engineers who’s working on these issues to come blog a status update, since he’ll be able to explain things and answer your questions better.
December 13th, 2006 at 4:43 PM
Hmmmm, this is Second Life, right? The system Philip told ‘Wired’ was ‘infinitely scaleable’?
Could it be that our beloved leader was being less than truthful? Surely not?
Still, on the evidence… Either that or he had no idea what he was talking about!
December 13th, 2006 at 4:46 PM
I have a good suggestion! Perhaps the Lindens could put up some “info huts” all over the virtual world that lists the coordinates of a variety of places, sort of like a bulletin board, where people could go to look for places to visit when search is down. This would just be a back up plan in case of search failure in the future. Not every place would be listed of course, but you could give a fair representation of night clubs, shops, popular hang-outs, classes, and the like. Maybe sim owners could add to this by putting up their own collections of worthy places to visit. This would help us get around when our wings would ordinarily be clipped.
December 13th, 2006 at 4:50 PM
Database load causing problems for many things isn’t always a case of poor hardware. It can be flaws in the database software or database design. You could have problems with high load on a poorly designed database on a Crey supercomputer or a 386. Its not always the hardware people.
@Lord: They can either turn off search places if its taking up too much resources so the REST of the functionality and database accesses run smoothly, or they can leave it on and turn off EVERYTHING ELSE, or they could not turn off anything and just wait for the database software to choke and die and effectively bring the whole grid to a halt.
I’ve done db admin work in the past and with something db-driven like SecondLife, MMOs, and mu*s it takes time to scale and reword the databases involved without corrupting, losing, or invalidating the data. This is why MMOs in their EULA/TOS state they reserve the right to witpe the server databases and are not responsible for lost inventory/characters. They try not to do it but there’s always the risk of it happening accidently or due to hardware/software failures, hacking (creating deliberate bad data that causes db corruption), or if an issue is too serious there may be no way to fix it without wiping out a chunk of the data.
Also any attempts at changing the db structure to address load issues and similar problems means creating a ‘test’ db with the new schema, running scripts to copy the data from the live db into the new db and comparing it to make sure nothing got lost/corrupte din the proccess since you’re not doing a straight copy but also converting and moving data chunks around. All it takes is a single typo in the new db’s field names or in the conversion scripts and goodbye usable data (hence why you test the new db before you just put it in place).
December 13th, 2006 at 4:58 PM
Search didn’t “go down”. It was turned off by LL to help the database load ease.
While that really cripples SL, I thank Linden Labs for trying something (even if I’d prefer if something else (maybe the map?) was turned off instead).
December 13th, 2006 at 5:14 PM
Either that or he had no idea what he was talking about!
I’ll refer him to your group inworld.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:14 PM
“While offering what?” - Parsimony Paragon
I PAY for service, they are SUPPOSED to be providing it. It is not my job or responsibility as a PAYING customer to brainstorm and try to fix problems for the company I am paying. That is the role of Linden employees and as such It is THEIR job to brainstorm and figure out a way to deliver to the CUSTOMER what they promised when they took our money.
While the haiku was quite literate, I am NOT buying into the kiss-up to the Lindens that we must give them ideas on how to fix their problems. They are adults, they are businesspersons, time they grew up and acted like it and solved the problems. If they have to change the way they have structured the company/assign work/etc, so be it.
People like you, Parsimony, who are willing to accept excuses and second-rate service without complaint (and indeed stick up for the inferior service) are the reason so many companies provide inferior service…because they know they can get away with it and be backed by ‘understanding’ customers like yourself.
December 13th, 2006 at 5:25 PM
Thanks very much, Jeska - it’s just getting tough to do business with these ongoing issues affecting potential new clients perceptions. The update will be most appreciated!
December 13th, 2006 at 5:43 PM
I’ve paid for this service once, but at this point i’m not at all sure i would do so again. I’m 100% with Maklin Deckard. And I’m tired of service being dumped because of overload. Give the freeloaders an initial month, then make them pay or dump them. The six and seven figure numbers don’t impress me in the least.
December 13th, 2006 at 7:27 PM
Is this related to the map not displaying once you zoom out more than about 25% on non-mainland?
December 13th, 2006 at 7:41 PM
Im trapped in one zone. No search means I cant teleport even if the teleport worked….. Not great when you are a premium member!
December 13th, 2006 at 7:50 PM
Okay, here’s my opinion (as if it I thought it mattered).
First:
No. I don’t pay, I don’t have a business, I don’t contribute except to buy and help biuld now & then. That said, I believe it would be in everyone’s best interest that should the next update not prove FULLY worthwhile (and I mean NO NEW FEATURES, just bug fixes and clarity in the DB so it’s smoother) then maybe LL should think about turning it off and just rebiulding the whole dang thing for a short time. Start the work now, if it’s necessary then drop it, then set a date. I figure it will take 3 days MAX to see if the patch does the job, so set the ‘grid up ‘ date to Feb 1, giving the businesses valentine’s day.
Second:
While I don’t run a business or pay I agree that you’re overdoing it with the free accounts. Maybe you should think about some revisions. Bring down the premium for some by creating 4 account types.
1 - Free temp, or possibly a deposit temp. Let people have a month on a partial cost account, then they can upgrade or quit and get back their first month. Odd, awkward, overly elaborate, just an idea. But free accounts should probably get limited real soon. I like just a month free and then your in or out, no saved char’s cluttering the DB when noone plays them. (And I HOPE your clearing accounts out after a period of inactivity.)
2 - The minor account. For people who, like myself, cannot devote the time to be a businessman and do not have that many things to do on here since I’m not interested in a Second Life house or business account. This could cost a nominal fee, like $3-$7 depending on billing. This would have a much lower allowance than the current Premium, but higher than the current free account. Let’s face it, currently I can’t even support businesses with my lousy allowance. (I’ve always wondered, if $L can be $US then who is paying that allowance, I know I don’t want the premium accounts paying MY allowance.)
3 - The Premium account. Which would basically be a much higher allowance and would also be allowed to own land. They could not advertise but could sell. The cost could be about $10-$15 depending on payment.
4 - The Business account. By adding more cost below you should now have more room in the servers without running off the entire populace, thus allowing a better experience. Now maybe you could bring down the cost of this account by giving no allowance what-so-ever but having the cost of advertising included in their fee. This could easily convince more businesses to be open. Give them an allotment of land that they can do with as they please to begin with, make it so that they recieve a particular amount of $L that they can use towards buying a shop.
These of course don’t include any of that whole island/sim purchasing, if you want to do that it should definitely be seperate of the character. Myself, if I ever got a sim of my own i would still not have a business account, I don’t want to be in business here, it’s just too detached from my control.
I’ll be honest, I have found most of the the things I did through walking around. I think that too many businesses are solely dependent on the ‘Search’. Most of what I’ve found was advertised in other shops or, well…pretty randomly across the sims.
I just think it would be nice if the merchants didn’t have to pay as much unless it was based on their sales. Ebay takes a percentage, why not LL?
December 13th, 2006 at 8:11 PM
HI guys————i do love Second life———-and i try to be patient while you figure out what you are doing. You have to admit that if it is not one thing it is another. I know this program is cutting edge—–it does many wonderful things but it is really frustratig to come on and not have it work right 4 or 5 times a week
If you look at my budget—i spend more money here than a large number of the products and services i buy———-they all work with a rare exception————i know you are trying butr you need to focus on making this thing work a majority of the time. I cannot get on tonight——i can get on to other web sites—and my computer is working fine, but as i try to down load the newest version your site freezes——–I am a very patient person——so i know that you must get messages from people who are ready to strangle you. I do love SL and i want it work right–thats all————I humbly submit my request—thank you for listening………oh and i am lookingf or someon who is doing something similar to what you are doing on line—–if your loyal followers are doing this——-how about the others—————–you know they will beat down your door if you build a better mouse trap———–you have a very sexy mouse trap—but there is a question if it is better—–make it work and i am sure the response out here in the cyber world will be way beyond what your success has been so far——-as a true SL addict—hugs and kisses and i hope you all have happy hearts as you get these problems fixed
December 13th, 2006 at 8:44 PM
Why are we still getting the same proformance in this new update we had in the old client? Nothing has changed?! Teleporting is a mess, transactions are ifing.bla bla bla…..
December 14th, 2006 at 2:28 AM
Ahem, since the last Update, I have items IN my Delete folder again.
See before I log out of SL I am going to delete the Deleted Items Folder.
EVERY TIME, it is a habbit, just to make sure that I have not forgotten anything.
So since I logged in yesterday evening (German Time) I found stuf fin my Deleted Folder I got rid of 3 days ago. So what did you do to the database ?? Definetly not used the one you had in the moment as you shutdown SL.
TJ Ay
December 14th, 2006 at 2:34 AM
So is it true? Do you really clear my cache? Stop it! I go very few places and turned up my cache so those places would be there later. What’s the point of a freaking 1G cache if it’s not going to be useful for ALL THOSE TIMES I have to log out->in to get my char straightened out because I flew up against a sim and my plane THAT I PAID FOR and NEVER GOT BACK flies off while I hit the wall, still seated.
December 14th, 2006 at 3:28 AM
I think you need to do a rethink on the design of the search dialog itself. The search defaults to ALL, and I often end up hitting this when what I’m actually after is Places and (probably) Classifieds. Consequently I’m also searching groups and people when I have no need to see them. Actually it took me a while to work out that classifieds and places were searchable seperatly, and even then I can’t search just these two at once.
Given that when new one uses the search dialog a lot you probably have a significant additional load on the database for the above reason that serves no useful purpose. I suggest that the all search be changed so that some parts can be switched off (and by default people and groups are). Maybe rename ALL to something else, and have a series of checkboxes for Places, Classifieds, Groups and People with the second two turned off by default.
December 14th, 2006 at 3:44 AM
Vhat gets me is that people are talking about “Many of the same issues” as previous updates and that’s bullcrap. We don’t have estate to estate teleporting broken. They fixed that. We don’t have searches on the mainland not turning up estate results and searches on estates only returning results on those estates. They fixed that. They fixed three differen viewer crashes, a memory leak on intel Macs, made it much easier to move around and still be able to type without bouncin around like a freakin jumping jack…
Need I go on? All the “feature” updates in this version have pretty much been user interface level. The rest of the update was concerned with bugfixing. The more bugs get fixed, the better. The idea that they should stop updating until they fix current problems is STUPID. No more feature creep, yes. But updates are required to fix bugs in software. Is this simple concept outside the grasp of the simpletons who quite obviously just want a reason to bitch? I’m starting to think so.
Now, with that said, a suggestion for maybe making things better. It would be nice if rather than a whole new viewer for every update, a patch system could be put in place to reduce update download sizes which are likely contributing to at least bandwidth load after updates.
December 14th, 2006 at 4:36 AM
@ Scartlett…What an excellent Idea….Maps…or a wall of maps..at certain info points..showing places of interest..businesses etc..
These could be spead out into quadrants of SL…Then one place wouldnt get too overcrowded with avatars looking at maps/places!
Even clickable TP points on the maps??? Maybe maps indicating..shopping places..role playing places…etc…etc
Hey..shoot me if its a crap idea!!
DB
December 14th, 2006 at 5:19 AM
Hiro, that is a great idea! Default to a category (or put a –Choose One–) within each sub-search (places, events, etc) and make the user select “all” all the bottom if they want to search all. That would reduce the amount of rows needed to be searched significantly!
December 14th, 2006 at 7:57 AM
This completely blows my mind. Why are we still running search queries on the main database? Why not put all the region searchable junk on another database server, and THEN cache it to the clients. For example, someone searches for “club”. It then sends the request as per normal, and caches it for later. lets say a couple hours later, the person runs a search for “club” again. It could then send the query with a lower priority, but while it’s resolving, search it’s local cache, client-side as well.
Btw, spend some time on making cache work correctly!
(/me knows the linden devteam doesnt read blog comments, but at least it’s on the record.)
December 14th, 2006 at 8:47 AM
Grazel:
I was pointing out how absured is the situation they have gotten themselves into.
They should not be hitting the live database for search places in the first place.
They should be hitting a snapshot or a regularly recrawled index just as Google Search Appliance works.
I know - I have architected such systems myself and continue to do so.
The places data cannot need to be any newer than 30 minutes for example - thats plenty of time for a crawler to update and index on a separate DB cluster.
To be hitting the same database instance(s) that we all depend upon for items to rez with “places” search is not very sensible to say the least.
Of course they need test DB instances - goodness I hope they do have. And nobody is suggesting that DB migration is easy - totally horrible and nightmarish at the best of times.
But u gotta do it.
I also read tat they are using squid proxy - I hope that info is out of date. That has been found to be terrible when scaling….
December 14th, 2006 at 9:38 AM
[...] Inworld search functions have been split into multiple separate modules that can be enabled and disabled independently, and indeed, the beleaguered Search > Places got another couple of hours off in the afternoon, to ease database loads. Aside from that it was the usual incidence of messed up caches needing to be cleared, and some slow starting as everyone piled on in a hurry the instant the system became available. [...]
December 14th, 2006 at 9:59 AM
i still can’t get to speak to any one…how so i start off….
December 14th, 2006 at 11:38 AM
Why not simply throttle place searches? Limit the inbound searching to what your system can handle and have the client wait in a que for the search to run? It would slow things down on the client end when things get heavy but it’d be better than shutting it off completely.
December 14th, 2006 at 12:38 PM
Has anyone noticed that the events and classified are not showing up on the map, or is it just me?
December 14th, 2006 at 12:40 PM
Now this is healthy discussion! Does it wander away from time to time? You bet! Is it addressing important issues constructively? Yes! Is this healthy debate absent of personal attacks? Well, it would seem that way!
Couple of notes:
Re: Off-site business directory/search
I wasn’t suggesting a search database function…but how many business owners WOULD pay a token few Lindens/US$ to have their SLURL always available to customers even when the SL-Search DB takes a crapper? I would, for sure, if I had your problems (I don’t, so understand I cannot appreciate some finer points of this issue). Would I take a little time away from creating texture and object files out-environment, to create a PowerPoint advertisement-file that could be uploaded to a business directory site which contains my SLURL? YOU BETYA, BABY! Does this require integration to the Search Database? Only if the SLURL/Map Coordinate function is linked to Search, which doesnt *seem* to be the case???
@Scout
I DO agree with you, Scout, that life would be more balanced if there was a 30 or 60-day cutoff on verifying and/or upgrading basic accounts. I just want to be careful that my status as a private sim resident, and active contributor to the SL economy, doesn’t get swept up in broad sweeping generalized policy changes, hehe, and want us to remember that we all LOVE free accounts, so long as they DO buy Lindens and pass them along to us, right?
December 14th, 2006 at 1:11 PM
@ Leafblower:
Sorry, my entire comment wasn’t directed at you. A good portion of it was towards other comments (here and in other posts) about the database load. I’ve noticed a trend by many that any load/slow down = servers suck and free accounts are to blame. I agree they should split the search off from the live database, though again that involves code and db changes to accomplish and will take time, especially when they have to maintain the existing structure during normal use as well.
As much as I love hearing what’s going on behind the scenes I also don’t mind some silence, nor do I take the silence to mean nothing is being done. After all if the devs were always posting here about what’s in the works well they’re not working on what they’re talking about. Now they can relay some info to Torley and the other commMonkeys but that doesn’t mean we’ll get constant updates on the status of changes, bug fixes. I’d rather get notified when they know they’ve got something that will work than hear about the 20 attempts that didn’t and never made it to the main grid.
Right now there seems to be a variety of issues, some big and some small. Some are bugs and others are just annoyances. What’s important to one isn’t to all and the Linden devs have to prioritize what gets worked on in what order, as well as work on the areas they know and can contribute (a web dev likely would do more harm than good trying to help with texture caching changes/fixes). I wish things could get fixed faster but know they can’t fix them all as fast as I or anyone would like. I can only hope they’re doing their best to fix the major issues affecting the largest portion of the user base first.
December 14th, 2006 at 2:18 PM
BTW, someone PLEASE take the offsite Yellow-SLURL Book thing and run with it! Free release of any residual ownership rights…just please do it, then we can get on and fix other things that have resident-based solution written all over them.
You get this one for free, but I DO begin to see a listing for myself in that SLURL-Book website: “Paragon Solutions, SL Consultants, a L?HHC (Liability? HA-HA Company)” (just kidding, non-existent, so not SPAM…sorry, could not resist)
Is that website UP YET?
December 14th, 2006 at 8:14 PM
If anyone is interested, IM me, as I think we can get a site going for this
December 15th, 2006 at 9:42 AM
Hand on heart cant say the search effected my sales figures I got the odd customer IMing me sayin they cant find me but I guess most ppl just grab a LM from someone or the group members.
In short all your missing is ‘new’ customers…ppl who have nvr heard of you before and even then they would ask about..I actually GAINED new customers as the ‘word of mouth’ came into its own since search was down.
I think the whole 2 million accts is garbage ( sorry LL but it is) no-one cares if the figures arent real. I have 3 alt accts so if we say everyone in SL has one alt acct on avarage then that rounds it back down to 1 million and I think Im being fairly generous in my maths too.
I would imagine the real figure hasnt ven hit 1 million yet due to the masses of alts
Ive had txtr theifs brag after I ban them ” ha! you think this is the only acct?? I have loads!”
Even thought about setting Refuse No Payment on the land settings but their are genuin ppl out there who just dont use CCs.
I notice LL arent releasing any figures on how many alts there are? I mean I think its a bit crap to announce figures they know not to be accurate but refuse to give us the real % figures.
December 15th, 2006 at 9:53 AM
In addition you could argue the search bug effected new businesses trying to get established and Im sure thats very true but whilst I sympathise with these ppl at the same time they cant plead loss of revenue too much as new businesses they are just starting to make L$.
Im not sayin its a pain in the ass but once again LL isnt the enemy..they have a business to run too and the less L$ being spent in SL the more it effects them
Once again if SL fails for what ever reason…LL does! they dont do it on purpose..also Classifieds?
I just placed an ad there!?
December 15th, 2006 at 12:07 PM
@Traken
I did read what you said. And about that, my bf (xdarkx Pertwee) has no payment info on file at all. But he pays our SL rent, owns a store,has RL clients he builds for in SL, manages a sim, has made and spent many L’s… all with no payment info..so what makes him an unproductive member of SL?
December 15th, 2006 at 5:53 PM
@Traken
Yup. Alora Perse has a good point. There are ways to make $L without “buying” any. I have payment info on file, however, because I’m clever, I’ve not needed to “buy” Lindens but instead I’ve “earned” them. Then I’ve gone to other places and spent them, buying stuff in game and contributing on a larger scale to the SL economy as a whole.
Sometimes, it’s not about the big fish. Wal-Mart sells 10,000 items that are less than $20 and they’re a 125 BILLION dollar corporation. If Wal-Mart decided that you had to have a Platinum credit card to shop there and you couldn’t ‘window shop’, I’m sure that Wal-Mart would fold. You big business types in SL are quick to target the “little guy” but that’s only because you’re greedy.
What business do you run? I’ll be sure to not do business with you.
December 15th, 2006 at 6:04 PM
Thank you Shaolin!!! *thumbs up at Shaolin*
December 15th, 2006 at 8:50 PM
DingDong batz
@ Scartlett…What an excellent Idea….Maps…or a wall of maps..at certain info points..showing places of interest..businesses etc..
These could be spead out into quadrants of SL…Then one place wouldnt get too overcrowded with avatars looking at maps/places!
Even clickable TP points on the maps??? Maybe maps indicating..shopping places..role playing places…etc…etc
Hey..shoot me if its a crap idea!!
BANG BANG!! Your dead! lol sorry couldnt refuse.. I dont have an opinion on what you said one way or another just being naughty
October 30th, 2007 at 6:56 AM
hello
i agree