Billing and Trading Limits Changes
Thursday, December 7th, 2006 at 1:45 PM by: Lawrence LindenIf you own a region and/or regularly use the LindeX currency exchange, please read on for information about the billing and trading limits that affect land purchases and trades on LindeX…
We’ve recently revamped the billing and trading limits, and I’d like to tell you what we’ve changed. This isn’t intended to be an introductory post on the topic.
First off I want to say that to prevent continued confusion with land tiers, I’m attempting to steer us away from saying “LindeX tier” and towards phrases like “billing and trading limits”.
Please take a moment to pull up the reworked limits page. Please thank Zee Linden for the grid design suggestion, hopefully it is now easier to see what tiers are available and how they compare.
We’re split the limits for new residents in two, one set of limits for the first 7 days, another for the remainder of the first 30 day. The new resident limits used to apply to the first 45 days. With this change we’d also like to accommodate new residents who need Resident 1 limits early-on. To do so we’re creating a policy that allows us to convert Residents who are less than 30 day old to Resident 1. Not everyone will quality for this conversion. We’ll blog about it more when the policy and tools to support this conversion are fully in place.
Across the board we’ve moved to an exponential progression of limit between each level of a given limit class. This replaces the more linear progressing we used to have. This is intended to reduce the frequency of tier reviews, thus allowing us to respond to tier review requests more quickly. It’s also intended to reduce the sheer number of levels in each tier class to make the whole system more approachable.
We’ve increased the buying power of the Resident 1 limits (the default tier for accounts that are at least 30 days old) to accommodate the change in island pricing. We’ve also added Resident 2 limits that are intended for Residents who wish to purchase more land or L$ than the Resident 1 limits allow. If necessary we’ll add Resident 3 and Resident 4 limits.
The Business Owner limits are intended for the normal small business that has modest costs of starting business in Second Life, and mainly needs to sell L$ and pay for a number of regions. We may rename this class to “Small Business Owner” in the near future to help distinguish this class from the Enterprise class.
The Enterprise limits take the Business Owner limits another step forward to accommodate businesses that have high costs of starting business in Second Life and may need to buy a large number of L$ or large numbers of regions. This class of limits will be more difficult to get into than the others. We’re still nailing down the final policy details. When they’re ready for publication we’ll add them to the limits web page.
The Currency Trader limits are for Residents that would like to buy and sell a lot on LindeX but don’t need much purchasing power.
Finally, I’ve called out Supply Linden’s tier separately at the bottom of the page in an effort to increase transparency. Previously Supply Linden had been a part of the Currency Trader class with no indication what level they were in. If this proves unpopular we can certainly go back to the old way of doing things.
I haven’t spoken must about Teen Grid limits before, but we’ve recently added additional levels for Residents of the Teen Grid. We’re still nailing down the details of the qualification process, but these increased limits should soon be open to teens with parental permission.
If you’re logged into the web site the limits page will display the limits for your grid (Teen Grid or Main Grid) and highlight your current limits. If you log out of the website and visit the page it will display all of the limits (Teen Grid and Main Grid combined) but won’t be able to highlight your current tier.
As is often the case there may be some fine tuning of these limits as we’re able to determine how well they’re meeting Resident needs.
We’ve converted existing Residents with increased limits to the equivalent limits in the new system.
Cheers,
Lawrence
December 7th, 2006 at 1:56 PM
Yay!
December 7th, 2006 at 2:09 PM
I don’t generally consider myself stupid, but the definition of “purchase limit” is gobbledegook to me.
What does this cover ? Are purchases from Lindens unconnected with Lindex included, like buying a island ? If it applies only to the Lindex (as it should, being on a Lindex page) then how does it relate to the other limits ? What does it mean ? Examples ?
December 7th, 2006 at 2:15 PM
“We’ve increased the buying power of the Resident 1 limits (the default tier for accounts that are at least 30 days old) to accommodate the change in island pricing.”
definitely seems to suggest that these limits may come into affect when buying an island. This is done with a credit card, and nothing whatever to do with the Lindex, as L$ are surely never involved.
What on earth is such important island purchasing information doing buried on a page relating to the Linden Currency Exchange ?
Please put me right - I surely must be misunderstanding something……..
December 7th, 2006 at 2:46 PM
Ok, guys, be nice.
Lawrence, I suspect that this is a case of being so close to the subject matter that you expect everyone to know the lingo. As a (past) technial writer, I saw this all the time.
The best advice would be to have someone else in LL reread your post and translate it for the masses (us). I’m sure what you wrote makes excellent sense, but obviously, many of us are struggling with understanding it.
December 7th, 2006 at 2:50 PM
(My) Translation:
LL has changed the limits on the amount of L$ you can buy and sell on the LindeX currency exchange.
This change does not affect a large number of SL residents — it mostly affects business owners and those that are investing in SL (buying a lot of stuff).
If you are interested in knowing more:
* Visit this page: https://secondlife.com/currency/describe-limits.php
* Scroll down about half way
* Check your age
* You can buy up to the number L$ per month shown in the Buy L$ row (this row tells you how many L$ you can buy per month using any US$ credit balance on your account)
* You can sell up to the number L$ per month shown in the Sell L$ row
* You can Purchase up to the number L$ per month shown in the Purchase row (when you Purchase L$, you pay for L$ using the payment information on your account
Hope this helps
December 7th, 2006 at 2:52 PM
Okay, here’s what I was able to gather from this article:
- This article is about the limits LL has in place to govern how much REAL WORLD money you can put into, and take out, of SL.
- This article notes some changes in terminology to help reduce confusion between these limits and “tier” land ownership.
- This article discusses (in vague, jargon-laden language) some changes that have been made to the policy to simplify(?) things.
That’s about all I was able to get from it. Perhaps Torley could translate this into something that those of us who aren’t attorneys or professional economists can understand?
Take care!
December 7th, 2006 at 3:02 PM
Wha?
Sorry, I need it spoken verrrryy slowly.
Thank you for the link, 2fast4u…hope that will help.
December 7th, 2006 at 3:04 PM
This sounds good, at least until I get a chance to look at the particulars.
I’ve had the unforunate situation of having my private island purchases go thru just fine, but find that I’m now at 0 (minus, actually) billing limits so I can’t buy any Lindens or get money into my account to pay for land tier fees that are upcoming or anything else.
Hopefully, these changes will help that situation.
December 7th, 2006 at 3:24 PM
Friendly greetings, I’ve removed a number of off-topic and unhelpful comments. If you have constructive suggestions, please make them — but discussion should remain on-topic.
Like the prominent text atop the comment box says, please read our Blog Guidelines, and we have a Support Page if you need help.
Thanks.
December 7th, 2006 at 3:25 PM
As a Teen resident, I still can’t buy L$. It responds with this error:
“This transaction would exceed your monthly billing limit by US$24.95. You have already billed US$49.95 of your monthly billing limit is US$25.00.”
Why even bother with the limit if this is possible?
December 7th, 2006 at 3:33 PM
Have payment of Group Dividends been delayed? I generally receive these payments before noon but have not received anything today on land purchased yesterday afternoon.
The upgrading of the billing and trading limits is a good thing. I see many, many new residents and sell them land every day. I know that they are excited about the world and want to jump in full speed ahead in pursuing their plans only to be confronted with these limitations. This is not altogether a bad thing as I see many residents that are eager to spend without proper knowledge regarding limitations beyond the realm of finance, at which point I prompt them to do a bit more due diligence.
The limitations do however hinder those that have studied and planned wisely and I think it is a nice turn of events that they have a chance to move ahead with their plans unencumbered. Extra care on the part of LL to limit fraud is of course necessary and expected.
December 7th, 2006 at 3:55 PM
Dirk, I haven’t received my group dividend today either.
I applied for an increase in my Lindex billing limit last week, despite the “We’ll let you know within 5 working days” I never heard anything. I’m assuming it was simply ignored because of this change, but I’d still have liked to have had a response.
December 7th, 2006 at 4:19 PM
My attempt at translating…
1) Under the old system, both the amount of land you could own and the amount of $L you could trade was based on tier. Under the new system, land is still measured in tier but L$ is now called currency limits.
2) A new limitation has been added, the amount of land you can purchase per month. Under the old system, no such limit existed.
3) 4 Broad catagories now exist for both currency limits and land limits. Each one has sub catatories. They are as follows:
a) Resident: the default catagory. It has slots for baby residents under 7 days old. At day 7, you bump up to the 7 to 29 sub-catagory. At day 30, you are at level 1.
b) Business owner: allows moderate amounts of $L and land purchases. 4 sub-catagories. Designed for small SL businesses. Its not too hard to get into this class.
c) Enterprise: allows a lot of $L and land purchases. At highest level its over 1 million USD per month for land and $L. Its hard to get into this class
d) Currency trader: allows a lot of $L trades but very little land puchasing. Designed for currency traders as they need large limits on the currency, but not on land.
4) Under the old system, differences in catagories were much closer than they are under the new system.
5) New sub catagories might be added to the resident catagory.
6) Resident 1 sub-catagory is the default setting for accounts 30 days or older. Any other catagory or subcatagory must be requested directly from LL.
7) The $L being sold directly from LL on the lindex are now at the bottom of the tier page to make it easier to see how many $L are being sold.
December 7th, 2006 at 4:23 PM
What’s the point of having a Supply Linden’s tier when you change/increase/revamp it to fit whatever you want it to be every time the old ‘rules’ become inconvenient? LL can and will do anything they want about Lindex, so just put a sign saying “We own you” somewhere instead of this talk about transparency.
December 7th, 2006 at 4:47 PM
># Cannae Brentano Says:
>December 7th, 2006 at 4:19 PM PST e
>My attempt at translating…
>1) Under the old system, both the amount of land you could own and the amount of $L you could trade was based on tier. Under the new system, land is still measured in tier but L$ is now called currency limits.
Almost, but it would be more accurate to say “the amount of land you could own and the amount of $L you could trade was referred to as tier”
>2) A new limitation has been added, the amount of land you can purchase per month. Under the old system, no such limit existed.
Actually, that’s not so new, it’s been in place for months and documented on the website and blog. But purchase limits are basically the limits for how much we’ll bill to your credit card or PayPal.
> 3) 4 Broad catagories now exist for both currency limits and land limits. Each one has sub catatories. They are as follows:
Yes.
> a) Resident: the default catagory. It has slots for baby residents under 7 days old. At day 7, you bump up to the 7 to 29 sub-catagory. At day 30, you are at level 1.
Exactly
> b) Business owner: allows moderate amounts of $L and land purchases. 4 sub-catagories. Designed for small SL businesses. Its not too hard to get into this class.
Exactly
> c) Enterprise: allows a lot of $L and land purchases. At highest level its over 1 million USD per month for land and $L. Its hard to get into this class
Exactly
>d) Currency trader: allows a lot of $L trades but very little land puchasing. Designed for currency traders as they need large limits on the currency, but not on land.
Exactly
> 4) Under the old system, differences in catagories were much closer than they are under the new system.
Yes
>5) New sub catagories might be added to the resident catagory.
Yes
> 6) Resident 1 sub-catagory is the default setting for accounts 30 days or older. Any other catagory or subcatagory must be requested directly from LL.
Ignoring New Resident 1 and New Resident 2, yes.
> 7) The $L being sold directly from LL on the lindex are now at the bottom of the tier page to make it easier to see how many $L are being sold.
It’s better to look at the Economic Statistics page (http://secondlife.com/whatis/economy_stats.php) to see how much were actually sold.
Cheers,
Lawrence
December 7th, 2006 at 4:49 PM
># Stephen Zenith Says:
>December 7th, 2006 at 3:55 PM PST e
>I applied for an increase in my Lindex billing limit last week, despite the “We’ll let you know within 5 working days” I never heard anything. I’m assuming it was simply ignored because of this change, but I’d still have liked to have had a response.
The team that handles the tier reviews was holding off while I got these changes out. Our apologies for the delay.
Cheers,
Lawrence
December 7th, 2006 at 4:51 PM
> # amvakar Till Says:
> December 7th, 2006 at 3:25 PM PST e
> As a Teen resident, I still can’t buy L$. It responds with this error:
> “This transaction would exceed your monthly billing limit by US$24.95. You have already billed US$49.95 of your monthly billing limit is US$25.00.”
> Why even bother with the limit if this is possible?
Like the limits page says, the purchase limits are designed to count, but not block recurring charges such as land tier fees.
Cheers,
Lawrence
December 7th, 2006 at 4:52 PM
> # Firelight Simca Says:
> December 7th, 2006 at 3:04 PM PST e
> I’ve had the unforunate situation of having my private island purchases go thru just fine, but find that I’m now at 0 (minus, actually) billing limits so I can’t buy any Lindens or get money into my account to pay for land tier fees that are upcoming or anything else.
Please submit a limits review request or contact your concierge.
Cheers,
Lawrence
December 7th, 2006 at 4:56 PM
> # Shoshana Epsilon Says:
> December 7th, 2006 at 2:46 PM PST e
> Lawrence, I suspect that this is a case of being so close to the subject matter that you expect everyone to know the lingo. As a (past) technial writer, I saw this all the time.
Well, it’s not so much that as the blog tends to encourage everyone to read everything. In the past I would have posted this in the Land and Economy forum and only folks interested in that topic would see this. Now everyone who hits the Linden blog sees this post at the top of the list.
Throw in the fact that I forgot to put a summary and a fold at the top of the page initially and there were a lot of people reading this who were not part of the intended audience.
Cheers,
Lawrence
December 7th, 2006 at 5:02 PM
> Candide LeMay Says:
> December 7th, 2006 at 4:23 PM PST e
> What’s the point of having a Supply Linden’s tier when you change/increase/revamp it to fit whatever you want it to be every time the old ‘rules’ become inconvenient?
Good point, perhaps listing Supply Linden’s limits really adds no value to the page.
Cheers,
Lawrence
December 7th, 2006 at 5:11 PM
When you state that it won’t be hard to get into a particular class, what do you mean. Does that mean we will have to apply to be able to spend more money? Suppose we are customers who spend large amounts of money. Will we have to apply for the same status as small buisness owners?
December 7th, 2006 at 5:33 PM
Thank you so much for distinguishing between small businesses and larger corporations in reguards to start-up costs. :3
December 7th, 2006 at 5:52 PM
[...] (more…) [...]
December 7th, 2006 at 6:16 PM
Cannae, there’s no limit to how much land you can purchase, per se.
Here’s how I understand it:
The purchase limit restricts how many US$ you can be billed for within a given time period, and it applies only to *non-recurring* expenses.
Recurring US$ payments DON’T fall under the purchase limit. These include:
– Mainland tier payments. For example, if you own 4096 square meters of mainland, you are billed US$ 25 a month (http://secondlife.com/whatis/landpricing.php)
– Private island monthly payments. If you own an island, you are billed US$ 295 a month (or US$ 195 if grandfathered)
– Premium account payments. If you have a premium account, you are billed US$ 9.95 monthly or US$ 22.50 quarterly or US$ 72.00 annually.
Non-recurring US$ payments DO fall under the purchase limit. These include:
– If you spend US$ to pay for a land auction you have won, for those auctions where the price is in US$ and not L$ (https://secondlife.com/auctions)
– If you spend US$ 1675 for the one-time setup fee when you buy a private island directly from Linden Lab (not secondhand from a third party)
– If you spend US$ 1 or US$ 10 or US$ 15 to pay the processing fees when you withdraw US$ out of SL (to PayPal or payment by check) (https://secondlife.com/account/process-credit.php)
– If you spend US$ to buy L$ on LindeX (https://secondlife.com/currency/buy.php), including the US$ 0.30 transaction fee
– If you spend US$ to buy account credit (https://secondlife.com/account/manage_balance.php) to increase your US$ balance.
Whenever you need to spend US$ for anything, Linden Lab will first take it out of your US$ balance, if any. You can have a nonzero US$ balance if you:
– sold L$ on LindeX (https://secondlife.com/currency/sell.php)
– bought account credit (https://secondlife.com/account/manage_balance.php)
Using up your existing US$ balance does NOT count against purchase limits.
So here’s an example:
You have a store on the mainland. Last month your store made L$ 270,000, so you sell that on LindeX @ 270 and end up with US$ 965.00 (after 3.5% fee) in your US$ balance. Your store is on 16,384 square meters of land, for which you pay US$ 75 a month in tier. To own mainland, you need a premium account for which you pay $US 9.95 monthly.
Linden Lab takes the US$ 75 and US$ 9.95 out of your US$ balance, so you’re left with US$ 880.05.
Three weeks later, you decide to buy an island, for which the setup fee is US$ 1675. Linden Lab takes the first US$ 880.05 out of your US$ balance, and then bills the remaining US$ 794.95 to your credit card. The $794.95 is applied against your purchase limit.
A few days later, you decide to buy a second island. Since your US$ balance is now zero, the entire US$ 1675 comes out of your credit card, and is applied against your purchase limit. The total of 794.95 + 1675.00 = US$ 2469.95 is still within the monthly limit of US$ 2500.
A few days later, your monthly billing anniversary comes up and you’re billed another US$ 75 for tier and US$ 9.95 for premium membership. Since your US$ balance is now zero, this comes out of your credit card. Does this put you over the purchase limit of US$ 2500? No, because these are recurring expenses. The purchase limit only applies to non-recurring expenses.
You try to buy US$ 100 worth of L$ on LindeX. You can’t because that would put you over the US$ 2500 limit.
Thirty days pass after you bought the first island. The US$ 794.95 in connection with the first island no longer applies to your purchase limit, but the US$ 1675 for the second island still does. If you wanted to buy L$ on LindeX you could now buy 2500-1675-0.30 = US$ 824.70 worth of L$.
A few more days pass, and it’s now thirty days after you bought the second island. Assuming you haven’t made any other US$ purchases in the meantime, your full US$ 2500 purchase limit is restored.
December 7th, 2006 at 7:00 PM
Lawrence,
There is something important missing in the billing and trading limits pages: any mention of alts.
Previously there was a limit of five alts. I registered the maximum number and put them all on premium accounts at US$ 72 annually, because with a grandfathered pre-November weekly stipend I actually make a profit (weekly stipend of L$500 = profit if exchange rate stays lower than L$ 361 per dollar; weekly stipend of L$ 400 = profit if exchange rate stays lower than L$ 289 per US dollar). Maybe the profit is only the equivalent of one lunch per year, but why turn down free money?
Now here’s the question: can each of my alts separately trade and bill up to their respective individual limits? According to the letter (though apparently not the spirit?) of the billing and trading limits, it seems they can. On the other hand, a person might have one alt strictly for fun and personal stuff, while another might be used only for business, and on separate credit cards and accounting arrangements, so it could be very valid and reasonable to have separate trading and billing limits.
And now all limits have been removed regarding the number of alts you’re allowed to have (https://secondlife.com/knowledgebase/article.php?id=308). So this might need to be addressed.
One idea would be to have the billing and trading limits apply per billing method (per credit card).
December 8th, 2006 at 4:09 AM
Ok, its becoming clear (I think).
In normal language, “buy” and “purchase” mean the same thing.
Not so in SL jargon.
“buy” means buy with L$ from the account of your character, or with US$ from the account of your character.
“purchase” means buy with US$ directly from a credit card or other external source, on behalf of your character.
Is that unusual use of words the cause of all the confusion ? Because it seems never to be spelled out ?
Lindex “buy limits” relate to buying currency on the Lindex.
Lindex “purchase limits” are not Lindex limits at all. They apply to all purchases with external sources except recurring ones. This just happens to include, but is not limited to, any Lindex currency purchases too.
Is this right, Lawrence ?
December 8th, 2006 at 4:14 AM
No thats still not quite clear. Please kill the previous - I’ll try again:
Ok, its becoming clear (I think).
In normal language, “buy” and “purchase” mean the same thing.
Not so in SL jargon.
“buy” means buy with L$ from the account of your character, or with US$ from the account of your character.
“purchase” means buy with US$ directly from a credit card or other external source, on behalf of your character.
Is that unusual use of words the cause of all the confusion ? Because it seems never to be spelled out ?
Lindex “buy limits” relate to buying currency on the Lindex with an inworld resource.
Lindex “purchase limits” are not Lindex limits at all. They apply to all purchases with external resources except recurring ones. This just happens to include, but is not limited to, any Lindex currency purchases made with an external resource too.
All “buying” is with an internal resource.
All “purchasing” is with an external resource.
Is this right, Lawrence ?
December 8th, 2006 at 11:25 AM
Suzy,
If you look at the tables in https://secondlife.com/currency/describe-limits.php,
The table rows don’t say “Buy”, “Sell”, and “Purchase”, they say “Buy L$”, “Sell L$”, and “Purchase”.
In other words, the first two apply strictly to LindeX trading. The third, “Purchase”, applies to overall purchasing with US$. Purchasing with US$ involves a number of things, one of which happens to be buying L$ on LindeX.
Maybe it would be a lot clearer if the Billing and Trading Limits page explicitly referred to:
* LindeX buy limit
* LindeX sell limit
* Purchase limit
instead of just referring to “buy limit”, “sell limit” in shorthand. This shorthand seems to be a major cause of the confusion.
December 10th, 2006 at 8:19 PM
In August or September, I was able to cash out money, taking a large earned supply of Lindens gained from in game business, and have nice little bit of money to use for holiday gifts and so forth. I know at that time, I was able to enter far more than 5,000 L to get the US dollars transfered to Pay Pal. Now I can only cash out 5,000 L a month? My little business that caters to new comers to SL is my part time job. It is what I do. I am house bound by health and have enjoyed having a way to earn part time money in Second Life. Where is the motivation to build business and make a living, something touted on many Second Life articles and one of the original marketing strategies to get people to join (Come to Second Life and make real money). The changes you’ve put in effect seem to take that marketing ploy and turn it 180 degrees. Come to Second Life and profit a little. Make 5,000 L and we’ll give you roughly 18 dollars for your work this month. Next month you can have 18 more dollars. How is that helpful? Or am I misunderstanding the new system and new limits?
Thank you,
jessika Taggart
Owner of jes`Teasing and Back in Tyme
December 13th, 2006 at 8:52 AM
Users should be able to purchase and use the amount of $L they need or desire. I find myself not being able to acquire the $L that I need and this slows the process of commerce for the whole community.
Linden should offer scenarios similar to what is done in real life that allows people to invest in the growth and prosperity of Second Life. I’ve invested in several businesses within SL and am ready to buy and develop land. These artificial limits imposed by Linden makes this difficult at best.
June 3rd, 2007 at 1:21 AM
Hi, I want to increase my limit for buy Linden, but I must wait 17 Years ! There aren’t a method for increase my linden daily ?
June 14th, 2007 at 9:03 PM
You know I would personally just like to buy Lindens without a hassle…. this is the 6th time in the recent months that the process of purchacing Lindens has changed and results in days and even weeks until I can buy any. Last week it worked alright with my Visa All-Access card and now today, after yet another “fix” it says “Challanged” when I put the number in. What is that?? Will it be yet another 3 weeks before I can actually buy Lindens again? The help page doesnt help at all since I know the card is good and I am not trying to use it out of the country and the numbers are typed correctly. So now what? Do you just not want my money? Should I take it as a hint?
August 24th, 2007 at 8:00 AM
I want to increase my limit for buy Linden, i have a credit card registered, and i want to buy a land or island. At this moment i have 300,000 L$. sorry for my english i’m italian….
thank you
November 1st, 2007 at 4:12 PM
online-future-trading-system
online-future-trading-system
April 11th, 2008 at 8:25 PM
My name is Herger and I would likle to trade Linden and US currency through Second Life. I am about to get $500 000L and would like to sell this in smaller installments here and would like the capacity to do so.
How can I change my trading limits?
May 20th, 2008 at 9:41 AM
Need help.
I can’t sell my L$
My LindeX sell limit is zero
I have a 3 month old Basic Account, payment info on file.
Do I need a premium account to sell L$ ?
or I can request LindeX Tier Review to increase the sell limit?
September 17th, 2008 at 8:37 PM
I just registed premium annual acoount on 16th of Sep. I want to buy the LS and land, but couldn’t do that. The webpage always shows “This transaction would exceed your monthly billing limit by US$51.. You have already billed US$72. of your monthly billing limit is US$25.00.”I just want to know whether my account hasn’t reached 7days, that’s why i couldn’t buy LS and join the auction? If so, when can I buy LS and purchase the land?
October 17th, 2008 at 9:28 PM
lin
I have exactly the same situation. I just upgraded expecting to get some lindens either though the stipend or by purchasing them and I get the same message.