Continuing Our Support for In-World Education…
Wednesday, November 22nd, 2006 at 4:00 PM by: Jesse LindenMany Residents have expressed concern that the end of paid educational event support means that Linden Lab is abandoning in-world educators. This is definitely not the case and we apologize if we haven’t made it clear how we will continue to support individual Instructors who have made teaching Second Life skills their passion. Moving forward, we will be making the following significant changes to the volunteer Instructor program to improve scaling and support:
1) We will be merging the Instructor group with the Mentors program and will encourage active Instructors to work more closely with the broader volunteer community in Second Life under the leadership of Pathfinder Linden. Stay tuned for an announcement regarding changes to the volunteer program soon.
2) We will continue to provide free teaching areas to hold classes with the necessary safety capabilities to ensure a safe, high quality educational experience for all. We will continue to look into ways to improve these areas and set aside more land for educational events as needed.
3) We are working on a plan to increase the visbility of free class events in the viewer as part of our broader initiative to improve support.
4) We will continue to offer educational materials and resources to individuals who wish to teach in Second Life. This includes everything from documentation to things like tip jars to help offset the cost of supplies.
We look forward to expanding the volunteer education program and are confident it will continue to be a large part of Second Life as we grow. For more information, feel free to contact me directly at jesse@lindenlab.com.
November 22nd, 2006 at 4:09 PM
What about the archeology program in Second Life, what about SL’s zoology program?
November 22nd, 2006 at 4:32 PM
I
November 22nd, 2006 at 4:48 PM
Inadequate at best. This will surely signify the death of meaningful education for new SL residents.
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:07 PM
This decision was one of the most short-sighted, contrary decisions ever made. At a time when the world is swamped with new people saying “what can you do in SL?,” the answer “anything you can imagine” now rings hollow. The first step in unleashing the power of the imagination was always education.
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:21 PM
Great Reply from the Lindens- I as a avid student, get a great deal of guidance from the super instructors. Please dont kill this program, and your direction going forward looks like you’ve heard loud and clear from your avatars!
Thank You Very Much
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:25 PM
That says nothing in way of reassurance that these instrustors are being compensated. I think its horrible that the thought of pulling instructor compensation would even cross anyone’s mind.
This is, in my humble opinion one step of many taken in the wrong direction, and in the steady decline of the condition the in-world community.
Much dissapointment-
Crimson
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:26 PM
I would like to say that you should not only do building items but scripting items too
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:28 PM
I agree that LL is VERY short sighted in this however like the logo says it is OUR world, sooo we need to do more, Personally I am supporting a class a week (2k a month). and I suggest that people who feel as strongly as I do need to step up and help support our educators in world.
No matter how strong we criticize LL’s actions what will the end result be?
DO you seriously think that they will back pedal. As time goes on, I would expect LL to continue to remove our incentives for content and well for everything, The apst year it seems that every time I log in, I see something else going away, dwell, stipends, rising prices, mentoring programs, and now education.
I expect to see Tier increases, loss of ALL stipend, When did they announce another decrease in stipends to 300L
All I know is that I love Linden lans and the wolrd they created but it is quickly turning into a nightmare and I look forward to the NEXT virtual world. Several are starting, I only hope and pray that the Lindens start to take our fears into account and start to take care of us for a change, its never to late to hope.
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:43 PM
Again, i think this is a good move for LL. let the citizens take over. make the school what the citizens want.
November 22nd, 2006 at 5:53 PM
In other words, you’ll do everything you were doing before, except pay them….and are asking them not to feel as if they’re losing something
Trying to present these 4 points as “Significant Changes” when two of them begin with the words “We will continue to…” is nothing but spin.
The two most “significant changes” are not changes at all, and the other two don’t really translate into anything meaningful to the teacher, except maybe more work for no pay.
…
I happen to agree that teaching should be voluntary, especially given the drive-through nature of paid teaching in SL. I think making it voluntary will in the end improve the quality of it. Removing another source of $L in the economy is also a valid reason to stop payments, however that isn’t the only way teachers could get some value out of Linden Labs for their time.
Upping instructors’ premium account tier allowance to 1024m^2 instead of the default 512m^2 seems like a good start. The cost to LL of an extra 512m^2 allowance is negligible. Encourages instructors to go premium, if they aren’t already, and resolves the issue of $L sources.
If not that, there are other ways to say ‘thanks’ to your volunteers without paying them directly, none of which are addressed here.
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:11 PM
I agree that the Instructor program should still get some sort of L$ compensation. These people put alot of time and effort into putting classes together, especialy the ones for making clothes, poses, scripting etc. These require uploading of screenshots from various programs, writing out very specific instruction notecards. Not to mention the wide range of knowledge needed for teaching the classes. Yes some of the classes I have seen offered lately have been a bit out there. but others I think are needed within SL, and those ones should be compensated. As a Live Helper I get asked alot even when I dont have the Live Help tag on, where new people can go to learn about SL, and I always point them in the direction of classes.
Just my little 2 cents.
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:21 PM
What did we lose? DI and dwell, and now payments for instructors.
And what do we get? More lag, crashes, dispappearing inventory, grid attacks, unverified users griefing people, and increases in fees.
Offering payments for inctructors obtained some quality people who may not have the time/energy to do it for free.
LL you are taking SL in the wrong direction.
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:31 PM
Teachers/Instructors should be paid by LL , same as many goverments pay teachers, the people pay in taxes in real, people in SL pay in tiers and other ways, the economy of SL is not improving and I am seeing some bad downfalls, I am hoping things will change and I always look for hope, I love SL and want to see it grow and become more, I see it going in the wrong direction, please change back to things were or people will change the way SL is in the long run.
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:33 PM
Unfortunately, LL will only feel the effects of this on the company’s valuation metrics in the long run. Since that will get lumped in with other “market factors” at the time, I and others I’ve spoken with concur that they’ll fail to see this as a factor as the company begins to lag in its performance. Thankfully, Mitch Kapor’s VC firm isn’t staffed by dummies and hopefully will begin to track the volume of user created content per week as a valuation metric. From a market perspective, LL is the only real potential synthetic option on a future metaverse market, and this move is shooting their current and future investors in the proverbial foot. Its almost like inviting a better funded and more aggressive interest to eat LL’s lunch, one that can better afford stupid mistakes.
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:45 PM
I agree with Neil, scripting classes would be a great edition.
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:47 PM
If LL doesn’t want to pay their teachers then LL should do the teaching themselves!
“Teachers/Instructors should be paid by LL , same as many goverments pay teachers, the people pay in taxes in real, people in SL pay in tiers and other ways, the economy of SL is not improving and I am seeing some bad downfalls, I am hoping things will change and I always look for hope, I love SL and want to see it grow and become more, I see it going in the wrong direction, please change back to things were or people will change the way SL is in the long run.”
I completely agree with this statement. As a RL teacher I would be offended if the govt. suddenly said “we are going to stop paying teachers, but since it is your passion we will continue to provide free locations for you to teach, help you advertise free classes only, and provide materials for you.”
Is this a sick joke? What incentive does anyone have to offer a free class?
Why does LL continue to take away their support of useful programs, useful $L sources but continue to print $L’s to sell?
You seriously need to reconsider. If the economy is so bad that you need to stop paying your educators then you REALLY NEED TO STOP SELLING LINDENS FIRST!!!!!!
keep paying your educators, bring back traffic payments, bring back rating payments. Bring back your incentives to do things for you!
November 22nd, 2006 at 6:52 PM
The stipend was a pittance compared to the amount of real world time I put into my class. I never took it, and I won’t miss it. I will keep teaching my class whatever SL does. I like teaching - Period.
As for being merged into the Mentors group. I am not a Mentor, I am an Instructor. There is a difference. I teach classes. I don’t have the time or the patience to help everyone with all of their newbie questions. Sure, I help people out when I can, but I am not, and never will be a Mentor.
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:06 PM
@Aryn
As the Volunteer program evolves, Volunteers can focus on different things. Teaching classes, working one-on-one with new Residents, helping via Group IM in Live Help, etc. Everyone can focus on specific ways they want to help all the Residents of SL. The name “Mentor” itself encompasses many things, so please don’t worry! I’ll be posting more about the future of the Volunteer program next week.
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:06 PM
*Sigh* I understand why LL made their decision, and I’m going to do my best to continue to teach despite the changes, hopefully using the changes to my advantage. But then, again, I’m an optimist.
I am a rl educator as well, and honestly, if our government pulled this on me, I wouldn’t teach in Public schools anymore. I would create a private tutoring business, and charge anyone wealthy enough to afford it.
SL education *is* different. It has to be. I could teach by the hour, instead of all day like I do in rl. I was not required to keep attendance, grades, homework records, or assessments…all of which are required by law in rl education. Students could show up, or not, for whatever classes they want, without pre-registering. Obviously, much different from public schools and even colleges.
Am I bothered by their decision? Absolutely! I lost at least 2 very good instructors and friends because of this change. Am I giving up? Absolutely not. I only hope LL sticks to their word to offer non-monetary support to educators in SL.
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:13 PM
There are two things I would like to comment on. First is the repeated assesment that this is our world, so we need to do the work. Second is the repeated assesment that LL is like a government for a virtual world.
If LL is like a government, that is quite frightening. This is a government that quite clearly doesn’t listen to it’s people (it can’t by law, as far as I know, because of corporate laws). It is a government that highly restricts the behavior of it’s people. And it is a government that offers next to nothing to it’s people, and continues to pull what programs it offers.
Increasing prices, I can understand, if LL is really needing the extra money. But increasing prices while *cutting* other services to users is a very telling thing for LL to be doing.
Restricting behaviors, I think, is important. I wouldn’t call for a change in that because I like the SL economy and I don’t like being greifed. But to couple that with increasing tier to levels that an everyday individual couldn’t even hope to pay, taking away stipends altogether, and taking away instruction for new users on how to make lindens - it is too much.
When we have more newbies than ever, we have less to offer them. Bored, they’re wandering around with little better to do than beg for lindens and harrass other users.
I love SL, I love the idea. I love what it used to be, where someone could make a free account and have fun, pay tier and have *more* fun. I had a free account for a few months and switched to a paid account. Now I own considerably more land than my original 512 plot.
Lindens, I personally think you’re strangling now what will be your income later. You can’t listen to me, I’m just a customer. But you can listen to the bottom line, because eventually you will have to listen to my dissapearing dollar. Being the only show in town won’t work to your advantage forever.
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:27 PM
As new mentor and a player for the past 9 months I have a couple observations.
- As a new player I never knew of the exisitance of mentors or instructors. I learned by going to the tower prims, New Citizen’s Inc, The particle lab and reading forums for endless hours.
-The forums were wonderfull source but are going by the wayside. The Knowldgebase needs to be expanded by capturing and condensing some of the info from the forums
-There needs to be some scripting toutorials. Tower of prims has added some vehicle scripting classes and that is a good start.
- NCI teaches scripting classes. I have found there classes usefull. Classes are very resource intensive. Demos and self paced toutorials need to be more available.
-Recently M&P Animations has created a learning area that demos how gestures, animations and pose balls are made.
- Linden Lab sponsoring the Tower of Prims is a great start. I would like to see them sponsor other learning projects and help the citzens expand them
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:33 PM
To token of gratitude should be noted for in-world educators, instructors, and facilitators such as Sara Sullivan and many others for services rendered. Good point made by Katja Karski in regard for the land compensation for instructor and educators. However, their are those who love to teach and are not L$ deep pocketed. I would feel safe to state that their are some instructors or educators who reciprocate the teaching stipend from L$ to support the courses rendered to the community of SL. Migrate the Instructors into the Mentors, WHATEVER! Please do not forget an educated community is a better community. Incenatives and support for the teachers and instructors should be paramount. Comparing the L$ spend for the instructors program versus the L$ gain from transaction is it really going to cause a redline for the Linden Economy. It shouldn’t be about the L$ if the passion and the support is present. Meanwhile, the community is getting larger and the courses are getting fewer.
November 22nd, 2006 at 7:52 PM
Seems like this is pretty much LL’s perrogative. They were basically giving out money to people to do something they would do for free(for the love of teaching
). Now they’re actually doing it for free(as most instructors I know/see are already i’m sure).
FWIW, I donate regularily to several schools/instructors who I attended in learning building and scripting myself. My little thank-you I guess - that’s what I think everyone should do. Is it too much to ask that you toss any instructors or groups you learn from a $L50+ every now and then to help em out?
November 22nd, 2006 at 8:40 PM
I think the main issue is that there were a lot of people who were teaching not only to help people, but as a means to make a ‘living’ in Second Life. Teaching is a pretty big time investment, and while I have no doubts that there will continue to be teachers despite a lack of funding, I think it’s probably inevitable that the number of them will shrink.
A lot of people like compensation for their time and effort. Then again, I think the paid teacher system was abused in a number of instances by people trying to do as little as possible for the standard 500L payment for teachers, while there were others who were really giving it their all. I think you’ll lose more of the first group than the second, so maybe it’s not a huge loss, but.
In any case, I think that the big problem for some people is the effective ‘removal’ of teaching as a viable ‘career’ in Second Life. I don’t think that’s a big deal in itself, as there aren’t any other jobs that get direct funding from Linden Labs as opposed to selling the service to the playerbase…
I suppose that’s my only real concern; that with LL not providing teachers with standard funding, teachers might band together and start charging citizens for teaching courses which you won’t be able to standardize. This I do think is a problem. Is it unavoidable? No, I think you’re probably doing enough that it won’t happen like that.
So while it’s certainly a shame that teaching will no longer be a method of getting by in Second Life, I don’t think it’s going to be a death to teaching and classes. I know for a fact that there’s a not insignificant number of teachers who aren’t in it for the money. I don’t think that’s going to change. It may lower the number of teachers all around, but the quality of the average teacher will probably go up; the only people teaching will be people with the hearts in the task, not just their wallet.
November 22nd, 2006 at 8:54 PM
“1) We will be merging the Instructor group with the Mentors program and will encourage active Instructors to work more closely with the broader volunteer community in Second Life under the leadership of Pathfinder Linden. Stay tuned for an announcement regarding changes to the volunteer program soon.”
Yer kiddin me right?
You haven’t done a damn thing to fix the serious problems with the so called mentor groups and now you wanna smoosh the instructors in with them?
Just give back compensation for the hard working instructors - who have been, by the way, kicking major ass when it comes to teaching folk about SL and SL related subjects, skills and how-tos: WITHOUT your “support” other than financially.
Pretty sure yall are NOT gonna do that, but there really is no need to boot the instructors out the frying pan into the inferno.
FIX the mentor program before you do anything else. Leave the instructors a-damn-lone
oh forget it.
I suppose the instructors have the option to chop out from that group. I suggest that they do exactly that. I really can’t see it being of any help to combine those two groups.
“Stay tuned for an announcement regarding changes to the volunteer program soon.”
I hope that means what I think it does - not merely the announcement of this ill-advised “merger”
November 22nd, 2006 at 8:57 PM
Instructors don’t need L$ they need materials and tools.
Look at instructors in poor 3rd-world country, do they beg for money ? No, they don’t.
They want us (”developed” country) to send material, computer, paper, book, pen, …
The instructor program need some sort of compensation, and all volunteers too. But it shouldn’t be L$ compensation.
If you’re working hard to provide 1 hour of good quality classes : US$2 or 0, it’s SAME !
Volunteer certainly need gratitude, reward, material … but not L$ from Linden Lab.
If you think Linden Lab is short-minded doing that, what do you think about the mind of instructor that will stop their instruction because of the end of 500L$ Linden tip ?
If you’re really so poor RL and SL that you can’t pay the upload fee, just ask ANY vendor/virtual-company/… in SecondLife to upload the images for you. They will ! (Maybe for an ads, usually just for nothing in return)
You’re a scripting instructor, you need things to be built and are very bad at building stuff ? Ask a building instructor to make it for you. i’m sure he will be glad to help you, maybe for a custom script in reward, maybe just for nothing.
You need land ? Try a linden land. Don’t want a linden land ? Ask a land baron, a big shop owner, …
You never, ever, need, L$.
the L$500 are just a reward, i think it’s the wrong reward.
Second life don’t need the short-minded instructors that help others because of the L$500.
In our secondlife “ideal” world, education should be free.
Volunteer, instructor, greeter, mentor, live helper, (and liaisons!) need compensation for their hard work. They (we) have compensation already : We make people happy !
It’s, seriously, the best reward ever.
If your newbie-happyness-bar is low, then, my friend, you’re having instruction issues. (c)(r)(tm)
What we need is LindenLab gratitutude too. Because we’re also working for LindenLab, making our virtual world a better life(tm). Currently, it’s not enough.
Since Pathfinder is working on it, i think we’ll have something good.
I’m offering, since yesterday, a full private islands (15000 prims) to volunteers. Currently restricted to a single group (can’t allow more than 1 group when access restriction is on
)
In just a few hours the whole island was built and almost finished.
What do you think i got ? Gratitude ? Yes, of course.
But i got something better : Volunteers IM’d me to say “I always wanted to do that but hadn’t the ressource”.
Now THAT is good. They don’t want to get 500L$ per every newbie helped, no. They always wanted to be able to offer something like a full (very) private island so volunteers can also take a rest and have fun after a very stressfull session of newbie helping. We seriously needed that and i’m glad i was able to do that. The sad part : it was supposed to be LindenLab to do that, not a resident like me. But it’s never too late …
Pathfinder, if you read me, you know what to do
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:06 PM
I understand the reasons for the change in policy but I think the way it has been done, like many of the Lindens decisions, was way too drastic and poorly communicated. This change will have far-reaching consequences and little effort seems to have been made to ease the transition or help the user community to adapt.
The meaures listed above will not have the needed effect, in my opinion. I fully support gradually handing over the responsiblity of educating newcomers to the residents. I think that eventually a system of endowments, sponsorships, apprenticeship, etc. can become better then what we have now. I just think the transition could have been a lot smoother.
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:13 PM
kerunix please speak for yourself. You may not ever need $L, but many people do. So it’s $2 US, so what? $500L can buy a couple good outfits in SL, that is worth the time. Some of us do not care what the $US/$L conversion rate is because we do not convert it.
Fact is people are spending their time teaching and should get paid for it. LL is just taking away another payment system in the vain attempt to stabilize the economy, but what removing these payments actually does is allow them to sell more $L without disrupting the delicate balance of the economy.
Once again I have to ask, and not one Linden has been able to give me a satisfactory answer,
HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY TAKING AWAY PAYMENT PROGRAMS WHEN YOU CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE PROBLEM BY SELLING LINDENS??
Linden Logic: Sources outweigh sinks so lets reduce the sources that make people happy and make people feel good and encourge people to go shopping, thus helping the economy, and lets add millions into the economy by printing and selling millions of $L’s because it puts money in our pockets. Nevermind the fact that we are taking money directly out of the pockets of the creators who are also trying to sell lindens.
If LL wants to sell lindens they should have to buy them first.
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:45 PM
Musicteacher Rampal please speak for yourself too
We all *want* L$ (we don’t really need them to be able to live in secondlife).
Read the comments again, most of people here say :
- the L$500 is a very small compensation considering the work
- It’s sad, but we can live without thoses L$500 anyway.
- A lot of instructors will not stop their classes just because of that.
- Volunteers need some compensation, don’t have to be in L$
About that “HOW DO YOU JUSTIFY TAKING AWAY PAYMENT PROGRAMS WHEN YOU CONTINUE TO ADD TO THE PROBLEM BY SELLING LINDENS??” :
- IT’S NOT THE TOPIC (love caps ?)
- They help to stabilize the economy (stable L$/US$ rate)
- they aren’t taking directly out of the pockets of the creators.
Now, please, let’s think i’m offended when you say “speak for YOURSELF” :
My “myself” is doing very good, thanks. how’s your ?
Thinking about myself, why the hell i spend thousands L$ a month to help volunteers ? I could just have a set of private islands just for myself. If i can offer a private island to volunteers, i could also keep it for myself, my very own private usage or, better, doing bui$ne$$ on it.
“Some of us do not care what the $US/$L conversion rate is because we do not convert it.”
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:45 PM
LL has a lot of things around that are instructional and free that are helpful if people would take the time to read and learn. If people want to teach something then charge a small fee for the class. Such as similar to a community night class.
Your not working for LL. No one told you to teach. Why would anyone think it’s LL responsibility to pay you!
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:47 PM
grr bug. i try again :
[read above]
***
“Some of us do not care what the $US/$L conversion rate is because we do not convert it.”
***
the “some of us” are very selfish (speak for yourself again). Our virtual (and real) civilization is based on money, and then, on the US/L conversion rate. Stable rate = better economy = better world.
***
“Fact is people are spending their time teaching and should get paid for it.”
***
this is not a fact (speak for yourself). this is one of the solution to show our gratitude for helping to build a better world. and, in my humble opinion, this is NOT the best solution.
***
“Linden Logic : [...]”
***
can *you* say “RBD” ?
November 22nd, 2006 at 9:54 PM
Ok, ok, so now… this is an Issue that I’m not all to good with, as far as the educators go (The TG does not have (m)any of these mythical creatures called “Educators”), but “Mentors” if you would call them by there title, are… well, at there BEST short tempered, there worst… lets just say “Does anyone remember my Linden War?” ive met about 10 TG mentors…. NONE of whom made it to my friends list, because NONE of them deserved it… let leave it at this; Don’t annihilate your edutainment programs, endose them more, and STRAIGHTEN OUT SOME OF THESE MENTORS! don’t add hot water to a boiling pot, drain it out.
Regards,
Gartral Tomcat
November 22nd, 2006 at 10:33 PM
[...] Our Support for In-World Education… Continuing Our Support for In-World Education…: “Many Residents have expressed concern that the end of paid educational event support meansthat Linden Lab is abandoning in-world educators. This is definitely not the case and we apologize if we haven’t made it clear how we will continue to support individual Instructors who have made teaching Second Life skills their passion. Moving forward, we will be making the following significant changes to the volunteer Instructor program to improve scaling and support: (more…
[...]
November 22nd, 2006 at 10:33 PM
A few months back, SL’s community guy who cuts checks for in-world classes posted to the Educator’s Listserv outlined the problem of improving accountability for “approved” classes.
They were taking an interventionist role here (ala John Keynes) and managing the economics of this relationship. Linden was awkwardly in the business of doling out individual micropayments, and possibly looking into performing assessments.
They have switched over to a laissez faire (Adam Smith) hands-off stance to let the market enforce quality. This is a healthy move to get out of the stipend business. Payments from Linden DECREASE the power of the market, stiffle innovation and lower quality overall.
This step of pulling back from subsidizing content is on a direct path with their original goal - to be the platform and not the content provider. Now it is up to the market to fill this demand.
I expect some very healthy pruning and tightening of existing subsidized providers and entry into the field by leaner competitors with branded offerings. In the end, excellent teachers will receive higher pay.
Bravo!
Jeremy Kemp
http://www.sloodle.com
http://www.simteach.com
November 22nd, 2006 at 10:39 PM
I wuz edukated at a skool with kno fundingm i’s alwayz on top!
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:00 PM
[...] Jesse Linden is coordinating with Pathfinder Linden on the refit of the Second Life volunteer programs. In a post to the official Linden Blog just now, Jesse states: [...]
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:06 PM
geez , lovily GREED, I feel sorry for the new ones coming in because there anit gonna be teachers that wanna teach for free , and they will charge the new ones under the table on linden free tools , supplies , and land , Sorry LL , but you all just made a black market in teaching behavior and its not fair for the unknowning unsuspecting people getting charged for free stuff ,that needs to end.
For the few that wanna teach out of their heart for FREE more power to you but the ones that make it hard are the ones that CHARGE. Since you ,LL, shut the payments down.
As for selling Lindens , its to convert rl money to linden money which is ethical , because with out Lindens there wouldn’t be money in SL.
But if the LL is making money it is off the investments and subscriptions ,as to where the money actually goes its anyones guess ,unless your on the board of LL
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:25 PM
what….the…spoon!
Ok LL what are you thinking? You want to help SL right?
I mean that kills my idea of becoming a building teacher once I get a little better.
First getting a private island, now teaching whats next you Charge L$ per prim users Rez?
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:48 PM
My God Save the queen and Second Life, If he cant do the queen at list save SL for we are totally scoring it up!
November 22nd, 2006 at 11:51 PM
*Screwing
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:08 AM
There are many thousands of players who offer ‘education’ to other players but just not in the form of official classes. I have many a time landed at our HQ to find bemused newbies with boxes attached to various body parts, all of whom have been given one-on-one tutoring in the art of removing and attaching, which often leads to further referrals through the Stratics help guides and places such as NCI. I’ve never been compensated by Linden Lab for the things I do which are quite possibly as involved, on average, as a class. I would love to run classes for new players but as I’m not always able to guarantee that I can log in at a regular or even specific time (first life gets in the way) I am unable to put things in the calendar.
I noticed recently one event entitled “How to find things on the events calendar” … surely, by simply turning up to the class, you’d already learnt around 90% of what there is to learn?
Broccoli
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:21 AM
DOH MY GAWD LAWL !!!
Priceless ! Thanks for the fun !
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:47 AM
Come on, I’m getting kind of sick of those who view the teaching program as an extra source of income. The primary drive was to help the residents of SL, not to whack off the same lesson constantly for an easy buck. For those that need Instructing, it is not their fault that LL has cut the funding so they should not suffer for it.
Plus, I can’t see why some people would view the previous payment as ‘compensation’. Compensation is what you give to someone that has suffered an accident or inconvenience because of your actions. Calling it compensation would imply that LL have forced you into teaching new players, which I am sure is not the case. Please do not use this term, it kinda ticks me off.
November 23rd, 2006 at 1:20 AM
Caution - another of my interminable posts ahead:
Sooo…the good teachers are going to go where they get compensated, like “private school”, and the one’s whom a private school wouldn’t hire will be teaching for free, if at all.
This is eerily familiar.
Hmmm…rl creeping in again. I think LL has caught, “U.S. Government Disease”. Need to cut something? Take it out of the education budget.
Wouldn’t it be nice if the schools had the money for all the things they need, and the Air Force had to have a bake sale to buy bombers?
I spend a HUGE amount of the time I’m in game doing “newbie classes”, because the rarity of places of the nature of my “bar” means that anyone who just signed up today and looks for my kind of place (and that’s what the do: appear in world, figure out how to search, show up at my place) has a choice of three at the moment…they hit them all, but the other two rarely have anyone in them, and I’m often in mine. So I get a LOT of clueless newbies coming through, and I try to clue them in.
I put together a freebie pack of things I made and freebies I collected, along with instructions I wrote up about how to control their camera viewpoint, etc. I teach them how to adjust prim clothing. I explain what textures are, how to wear sl clothing, where to go to get info on how to make their own, give them links to the Ivory Tower and other resources, and urge them to explore and experiment.
And NOW I find out I could have been getting paid to do this? Rats.
Well, I’m happy to do it for my “customers”, and I love to teach (obviously). I’d like to teach “real” classes when my skills reach “master” level, but I’m not going to come up with a curriculum, class materials (at my own expense, and made with my time in game), and put up with the inevitible “trouble” students without getting some kind of compensation - it needn’t be $L, how about a rebate on land fees? Or free texture uploading? Or extra tier (like group-owned land gives you 10% extra).
And Kerunix Flan,
What makes you think teachers in 3rd world countries don’t beg for money? Sheesh…don’t get me started…too late, here I go. I’ve got several relatives who teach, and two of them have gone to Africa to help with education there. You just have no idea…believe me, they beg for money. Sometimes actually: in the street begging, in order to keep schools open and teachers fed.
I’m thrilled that you’ve devoted an entire sim to teaching, really. It’s wonderful, and I hope lots of people take advantage of it.
But my first thought when you said that was “Wow. Must be nice.” From your comments it’s clear that you really, really don’t understand what it’s like to operate on a shoestring budget, or no budget at all. Believe me, for some that L$500 would make a difference in how much texture uploading they could do just for class material. Forget buying clothes…it would buy better teaching tools.
My freebies that I’ve built to give to newbies so that they’d have something nice to wear and toys to play with while the got oriented and figured out how to forage for themselves have cost me two or three hundred in upload fees. A tiny drop in the bucket of what I spend in SL, but for a friend of mine, who’s better at textures than I am, an impossible sum. He’s a starving artist and student, on a free account, and spends every US$ for rl needs. Fortunately for him, the school has free internet, so he can connect to SL. The US$2 that L$500 represents might mean the difference between eating or not some days. This is a guy who really, really should be teaching texture classes. Maybe someday when he graduates…
So: Compensation for teachers? Hell yeah. Cash is great, but even if not cash, something can be done in some way, surely?
But also, standards for teachers. Definitely need some sort of monitoring, to make sure the teacher isn’t filling the kid’s heads with mis-information. So, good teachers get paid, and students get an education.
November 23rd, 2006 at 1:36 AM
I’m glad to see the long-dubious and always-ineffective subsidy of instructors in SL be removed. Most people don’t use these educational services; most people do completely other stuff in SL, either at the amateur or professional level.
It isn’t fair to have removed events grants for club owners and development awards for community-builders, but then have left in instructor subsidies so long through a kind of fetishization of learning as they only “correct” activity and approach to Second Life (a hangover of the beta-test geek period.)
Most people learn the skills they need by selecting an activity to do and learning enough of the related skills to do what they wish. This old-fashioned notion has to go: pulling people into classroom-like settings and making them sit on benches and provide eyeballs to those wishing to make a career of instruction.
However, having done that correct move, LL is now consolidating a horror by bolstering and reinforcing the whole mentors/greeters/live help industry which is ineffectual and even corrupt and offensive in places.
Rather than continue to reinforce a model that envisions SL as a kind of crowdsourcing machine for the recruitment of apprentices who learn skills and then apprentice themselves to the top 10 percent of residents who are elite content providers or actual enhancers of the platform itself, LL should dismantle this system completely and let the market of both profit and non-profit services take over to serve the public.
A simple set of paid advertising on tasteful billboards would save money and time and help manage the newbie flow. Those who want to take care of newbies, either as a business or an altruistic activity, can pay for the ads for newbies to click on. Rather than have mentors steer people to their stores or be paid in any way just for being part of an official, centralized system, the market, with its faster reactions and decentralization, could begin to accommodate the hordes of people flowing in and finding themselves clueless and at a loss — mainly in need of hand-holding and socializing, not of knowledge presentation and learning.
I’m sorry that the “education” approach to SL which has proven wrong for so long and has been totally broken as far as any kind of “user rentention” is getting a second wind.
When you’re ready to drop these ideological approaches, call us, and let us buy ads and provide for newbies as either conscious loss leaders or fee-paid services. Everybody can pay something, especially with $400 in their wallet when they arrive in many cases.
LL has for too long held tight to the newbie stream and spoon-fed it to those they select on a discretionary basis. This doesn’t scale. Let it go. Let the hand closed so tightly over shaping the newbie impressions to control them open up — for the sake of the survival of the world.
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:40 AM
Prokofy, how would a newbie choose between teachers using your system?
The point is newbies are NEW - they don’t have any data to base a choice on. The first thing they see in game is a billboard offering teaching services. So how do they choose? By who has the most eye-catching billboard? Flip a coin?
By your system, they could shell out L$ and get bupkis, or very little, and possibly not even realize that they paid for info that was available for free at the place where they first appeared in game. Yikes! Without some sort of feedback or rating system, like eBay, you want to talk about potential for abuse and corruption, your way would be astoundingly bad. The mentoring system may be flawed, but at least it’s under the eye of someone who can actually boot someone out of the system.
And you say, “Those who want to take care of newbies, either as a business or an altruistic activity, can pay for the ads for newbies to click on.” Ah…so whoever can buy the most ads gets to teach? Pity the altruistic, talented and enthusiastic teacher without the resources to buy ad space, because the market has been cornered by the mediocre or unscrupulous with money.
“Classrooms” can serve a valuable purpose. Aside from allowing a number of people access to someone with skills they want to acquire in a timely manner (rather than wait until a one-on-one tutor is available), a good teacher can encourage a group to interact with each other as part of the learning process.
It would be nice if all people were nice people, but they’re not. Without some sort of infrastructure that rewards good teachers and gives potential students some sort of guarantee of getting a “good” education (whatever that means), the teaching service will end up another swamp full of snakes biting the unsuspecting. And that would be a horrible thing to do to new residents.
I really wish I had the resources to start an in-game university, where various teaching methods could be accessed from one central place - “state” supported, private tutors, pay-for classes by “professional” teachers and free classes by voluteers. We’d quickly find out what really works best in SL. Anyone feel like giving me a sim?
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:52 AM
I mentioned it sometime ago already but why won’t LL introduce V.A.T. and use this income to do some structural investments like education and keeping land prices lower? It makes the SL economy more healthy because V.A.T. adds a money sink preventing currency depreciation. Also L$ has real $ value so it increases the income of LL so they don’t need to resort to abnormal price hikes for sims. Of course, the V.A.T. should be kept reasonable, say a few % so that it doesn’t take too many profit away. It makes that the burden of the economy is shared by everyone.
- Zhe
November 23rd, 2006 at 3:33 AM
@Pathfinder Linden :”As the Volunteer program evolves, Volunteers can focus on different things. Teaching classes, working one-on-one with new Residents, helping via Group IM in Live Help, etc. Everyone can focus on specific ways they want to help all the Residents of SL. The name “Mentor” itself encompasses many things, so please don’t worry! I’ll be posting more about the future of the Volunteer program next week”
Ok, so is it, “Mentors” or “Volunteers”? “Mentor” in fact means a very specific thing, in RL life, and in SL. Mentors are indeed a subset of volunteers, as are Instructors now (with the removal of the stipend), but Instructors are not Mentors or vice versa. There may very well be some minor overlap in the activities each performs, but overall they are quite different.
I don’t want to change what I do, I don’t want to become a Mentor. I am an Instructor, and I teach classes.
November 23rd, 2006 at 5:28 AM
Back in the days of playing Sims Online, I did campaign for some kind of ‘verification’ of new player friendly places because as it stands, anyone can put themselves down as ‘newcomer friendly’ without actually offering anything of quality for new players. How easy would it be for a scam place such as a very rigged casino or freebie reseller to call themselves ‘newcomer friendly’? Right now, very.
I think it would be great if places that *are* newcomer friendly could get some kind of certification or recognition as being quality, as you have to remember that there are many places out there that offer things of assistance to new players but aren’t set up as a ‘university’. Yadni’s, for example, is a classic example too.
Broccoli
November 23rd, 2006 at 5:53 AM
The only reason the US ever became a world superpower was because of free, state-supported education (which is also true for the rest of “first world” civilization). This Libertarian wet-dream of not supporting education is extremely short-sighted. As a relative n00b, I take a class or two most days that I’m on. Even the canned classes are useful–while I may never use the actual thing I build in class, I am learning techniques & how to manipulate prims & scripts. I would have quit SL after my first month if it hadn’t been for the classes.
When the shopkeepers thought all their stuff was going to be stolen by copybot, did everyone tell them “Create more content for free! You should just be making all your stuff for newbies to make them happy!” Along the same vein, perhaps the land barons should just start letting newbies have free land (and by free, I mean giving it away, completely)–wouldn’t want them making any money off of that, now would we?
Yes, many people do make some stuff for free & there are even some restricted “free rent” places–but there’s also nothing wrong with making a living at it. Education is slightly different than the land & content examples, in that it really is not a free market activity, at least not if you want it to really be education. Want SL to be a third-world Banana Republic? Don’t fund education.
And for those who say the Lindex is not relevant to this discussion–when LL keeps using the ’stabilzing the economy’ excuse for withdrawing all these programs, the fact that they print money at will *is* relevant.
November 23rd, 2006 at 6:10 AM
How sad ,seems like all the things i enjoy in second life seem to slip away with the turn of each day -ahh wt*? . But this will happen when you whore out your product - a free trial would do ,then say like at least a one time fee o hmm 19.99 or so ! like a mom will tell her babe -who will buy the cow when you when all the milk you want is free !! You now leave everthing up who those who pay , and how much longer will we pay ? If i buy lets say next gen console i want it to be faster better more than i had before ,so why would we continue to pay LL if we are to get less ? This may sound off topic but i think it is the root of
a lot of issues with SL , software should sell its self -if you cant sell the heart its self all you will have to offer us is commercial lol. So i would imagine those who spend time to do a thing you should provide would want a little love in return
November 23rd, 2006 at 7:09 AM
Please please please don’t end subsidies. SL needs to do MORE, not less, to promote learning. After a month here I have still not found a good introduction to SLS scripting. I really want to gain the skills to be productive in SL but it is hard. I need free classes in order to be able to learn. The Help Island tutorials were terribly inaqequate. If, when I first came to SL, I had been faced with the chaos and creative potential of SL without assurance of free in-game education, I would have been too discouraged. I wouldn’t have stayed.
Please continue to subsidize creative teachers in SL. If you don’t invest in an attractive environment for people who want to learn, teach, and use SL as a creative medium, you will be left with little more than porn enthusiasts, porn vendors, and griefers.
November 23rd, 2006 at 7:53 AM
Merging the Instructor and Mentor groups is a bad idea because both group’s members are unique even though it is common for people to be a member of both groups (I am a member of both).
The key distinguishing factor is the respective groups’ target audience: Mentors deal with people on a one-to-one basis whereas Instructors, typically, work in a group or class setting. The difference in approaches is subtle but important.
Merging the two groups essentially erases the fine line between a Mentor and Instructor and makes everyone interchangeable with everyone else. There are times when I prefer to teach in a group setting and other times when I prefer one-to-one. Some people prefer to stick to one approach and could end up performing poorly in another setting.
So, why is this important? When given the chance to make a choice, most new citizens can make independent, informed choices that suit their needs. Some people prefer a group/class setting, whereas others want a more free-form approach that one-on-one instruction affords.
Taking away the choice shifts the burden of finding an appropriate person from the group level to the new citizen. The new citizen is not likely to know that there even is a choice or how to go about finding someone that offers the type of help they seek.
Please reconsider merging the two groups.
November 23rd, 2006 at 8:19 AM
You guys, they CAN’T keep supporting education. This is a platform, and it is not their place to financially support education. Teachers need to take it upon themselves to charge their students or do it voluntarily. Linden Labs didn’t do this because it was too much money, I mean it probably cost them $20 usd a month, they did it because they need to seperate themselves from third party education.
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:01 AM
What if someone were to build a university type setting. A place for the teachers to go to to give their classes. And if you can afford to take a class once a month or once a week then great. If you can’t then that’s fine too. Maybe put your skills to use elsewhere such as applying what you have learned to helping out the school?Volunteering to teach, making advertisements, going out and telling people who you know may want to take classes that can afford it…. (hint hin t hint) You know… volunteers make the world go round in alot of cases and I know there are people willing to perhaps donate to help get the teachers and students the supplies they need. I knw all too well what its like to go to school and have money for either supplies or food. Well duh I am going to choose food. Then you see your teacher who is already working for a pittance…. and giving up parts of it to help provide us with supplies so we can learn using the tools their classes were intended to use. Maybe as a community, sonce we build this world and we see this happening, we have no control over the real world government bleeding our poor school system dry…. Maybe we can do something here to help out these teachers? Instead of bitching and pointing fingers and whining, actually do something? My services are open for whatever I can do to help support anyone that willingly offers their educational services.
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:29 AM
I’m a teacher in RL (business and computer talent). While I’ve only been in SL a short time, I’ve found myself able to help users newer than I with relatively simple questions… and have been hanging out on Help Island solely for the social interaction. Teaching here is very much like RL I think -patience, encouragement, gentle correction and stay one chapter ahead of the student
Would I consider teaching structured classes in world at some point? Maybe… if I had complete control of my material (including full copyright ownership).
I haven’t seen anything in the blog to indicate if instructors under the old stipend model OWNED the classes they created or did SL have rights because they dictated the ‘who, what and where’ of the school setting.
This is an important consideration to me as… while I’m a teacher in RL, I have not worked exclusively for any institution for a decade. I create my own classes, advertise my own classes, rent out my own class space (at a university, college or even a Holiday Inn) and when I make a profit? Its all mine. Of course I sometimes take a loss… but I’m beholding to no one.
Bottom line from my perspective is I think Linden Labs is handling this situation in what I gather is their usually ham handed fumble fingers way (they really need to hire a sociologist or two). Linden Labs slapped a very loyal and true-believing segment of its population in the face. But then your stereotype geek coder never was a good people person. lol
To you instructors out there? I feel bad for you. It must hurt to be disrespected like this.
But please see this as an opportunity. Me? I’d never go back to public education - where others tell me what to teach, how much I’ll make and what hours I work. I left public education the week I was asked by my employers attorney to sign a statement saying the college owned my content - classes I’d taken months or even years of long hours to develop. It was scary to leave. But now? I work when I want and charge a class of 10 the equivalent of $250,000 Lindens for six hours work.
You? You provide a very valuable service and the contribution you can make here is substantial. You are worth far more than the little bone’s LL threw you. Some of you are worth a lot more.
Get together. Make this new situation work. Don’t work for handouts (from LL or from users).
Work for yourselves.
You OWN your content now - without question. Use that to your advantage.
Good luck!
November 23rd, 2006 at 9:51 AM
I’ve been playing SL for a little over two weeks now. Maybe I have a different perspective.
I’m probably in SL for 6 hours a night, more on weekends. I try to attend two classes an evening. All of my teachers have been helpful and friendly and I’m starting to remember some of my old CAD knowledge. I also attend live music events and a NASA discussion group. In between I hang out at a couple of clubs with some neat people. I enjoy meeting new people and am quite interested in the SL experiment.
I’m worried that I’m about to be bored silly. The oft lamented refrain “There’s nothing to do” is so very true. I hate to say it, but the lack of community structure, participatory goverment, and general emptiness means that I may not stick around for much longer.
Other than developing personal skills and making friends, SL feels like a dead-end simulation. Nothing we do in-game seems to have larger social impact. Instead of a government By-For-and Of the People it seems like the Lindens are more interested in a benignly neglectful monarchy. Overcrowding is ‘resolved’ by creating new islands which are out of the reach of most residents (in the next few weeks we’ll see if this actually frees up any mainland land). Complaints by show owners about lack of income is met with policies which will deter new residents (lowering the stipend, raising prices).
I’ve said it once before on these pages, but I have a background in economics and I don’t see that LL is making solid fiscal decisions.
If they want SL to continue they need to implement some changes, like those found in any Civics 101 textbook. Create the structure for a representative government. Allow those leaders to distribute land tax revenue. If the people elect leaders who value education then the stipends must come back*. Allow those leaders to determine realistic penalties for griefers (unlike the 14 hour suspension I recently saw on the police blotter).
* I believe teachers should be paid by the government for their work and they shouldn’t need to complete a lot of paperwork to get credit. How about a self-registration system with a volunteer who TPs to each class for 10 seconds to very that the class happened?
Be well.
November 23rd, 2006 at 10:22 AM
Willamette… I agree very strongly with the ‘lack of social structure’ comments; whilst there are indeed identifiable ’social groups’ such as furries, vampires, star trek fans etc, they generally do their own thing and don’t interact at all with others on a regular basis.
Having seen many governments come and fail in Sims Online (”and I’ll be president”
the last thing SL needs is a player run or organised government that actually extends beyond a group of roleplayers who are choosing to be involved. Deciding what is and isn’t acceptable here should only be Linden Lab’s job; we’ve all seen what happened with libsl when residents decided they were exempt from the rules and decided to do their own thing.
Broccoli
November 23rd, 2006 at 10:55 AM
Quick thoughts-
Do live helpers have ability to call a Mentor to assist someone with a complex problem?
Typically there is only one or two live helpers (if any) and having the resource of all the online mentor and/or instuctors would be a huge help. Many times I have been called upon to make house calls. Sometimes it a house that they need adivce on, sometimes it’s advice on land.
Is there a way for people to get hold of mentors besides running into one at help island?
I have helped people with issues ranging from hotel firewalls to program crashes. May times I hear about it from a friend because they are unable toi even get online. I, and several other mentors, are willing to get on AIM, YIM or some outside program and help people get online. We sometimes fill the gap of tech support during offpeak hours.
November 23rd, 2006 at 11:25 AM
As someone in the Instructor program I am not surprised by the removal of subsidies. No, not because LL are cheapskates or unsupportive or any of the other things being said concerning this move. The reason I am not surprised is because this move fits the idealogy of Second Life. SL is a place where you are given lots of tools to make your own place in the world. Right out of the box you can rez prims to build things, even study up on scripting through the help files, etc. The very idea of SL is to encourage people to make a way for themselves. Regardless how one feels about this decision if they evaluate it in the scheme of things it fits.
Having said that there are tons of good instructors out there. Now LL encourages you to break free of limits (2 classes a day, etc) and make a full blown career of Teaching if you wish. How? Well my intention is to do as some other instructors I see and come up with classes that work in a series like “how to open a succesful freebie stand” (of course that is not a real class intention, just a silly illustration). Doing that a person could charge X amount per person, per class. In theory an instructor could make more then the 500L LL offered and can teach it as many times a day for pay as they like. What about the new players, who will teach them to get boxes of thier hands? Those that are drawn to newbie helping that’s who. How can they get paid? Well, they can set up a tip jar and ask them to contribute whatever they can. No, those classes may make you less then the 500L.. likely it will make you less for sure. That is where you be sure to compensate with the other classes that are being paid for by more established and advanced skill level residents who can and will pay for your course.
I saw one instructor that included a landmark to thier store in the supplies they gave out while teaching at (a extremely popular virtual campus) not long ago and I am in agreement with Prok that it was in poor taste. Using that position as a way to drive sales for thier store was wrong IMO. Now on the other hand when LL is not paying for the class time a person *could* teach classes with a little emphasis on what they sell that relates or for example and it wouldn’t be a bad thing.
This is not the end of the world or a nail in LL’s virtual coffin as some are saying. It is another phase in making SL a free world and economy without LL putting the limits on what someone can make for thier knowledge and skills.
As for the merge with mentors and instructors I am in both groups. I do not see all the corruption people talk about. I think a merge could be a good thing. It could actualy help by allowing instructors access to help island and other places to give some free classes to newbies right at thier first landing point.
It offers more class potentials then instructors realize.
No, this change is not going to be an easy thing for some, but in the long run it can be better for everyone as instructors are challenged to come up with even more quality classes to bring revenue to them.
November 23rd, 2006 at 11:36 AM
@Random Blankes
Hear, hear! You’re the kind of person we need more of, in SL and RL.
Sadly, as this blog and Linden policies show all too readily, you’re a rare diamond in a bucket of sand and semi precious stones (and the occasional bit of sharp glass).
SL is very clearly following the way of US governmental and social policy, which is to let money dictate content and the poor and clueless to fend for themselves.
Ah well. The shine is gone from what started out as a grand new idea, and I’m heading back to the chat forums where I could be assured of meeting decent people like you. Good luck with whatever you undertake.
November 23rd, 2006 at 11:41 AM
Well, I’m going to jump into the fray here, why not?
Last night my SL wife and I were in our new shop we just opened this week doing some work, and greeting anyone who stopped by. Some don’t even bother to say hi, they just check to see if our lucky chairs are on their letter and leave, and that’s fine. Others will actually start up conversations with us, and those conversations are usually pretty cool. One customer last night overheard me telling someone else that I take RL photographs (some of which are also for sale in our shop), and mentioned that she, too, took pictures, and showed me one. Then she mentioned it’d look better with a black frame around it, and I told her there was a way to frame it and still keep it only one prim like it already was. She’d never heard of such a thing, so I demonstrated it, and then walked her step-by-step through the process of doing it herself. She was thrilled, and now she wants to pass on the same knowledge to other people she knows who can take advantage of it.
So, Cadence and I did some talking about it, and we’re planning to have regularly scheduled hands-on “how-to” workshops. Our shop is in a region that has seen a very large number of new players coming through, I think there must be some kind of a welcome center not far from there (although I’m not sure where it is), and those who don’t come through with bad attitudes and no manners (of which there have been a considerable number) are still rather whelmed. Everyone I’ve asked about the idea has viewed it very positively.
If anyone would like to volunteer to help develop some of these and/or help conduct them, feel free to contact me in-world and we can talk.
Seems to me that’s the whole point of this being “our world.” Why can’t we take some initiative and get things done, even if we do it in spite of Linden Labs if need be?
GIT ‘ER DONE!
November 23rd, 2006 at 12:19 PM
Bottom line is We (citizens of SL) dont get a L$ unless we pay for it thru Lindex, havent you noticed that all funds are being quelled, so that leaves what? the only way they want us to get L$ is to buy them form who? Them of course, its win win with LL and Lose lose with the citizens, now can anyone out there tell what kind of government that is? surely im not the only one watching this thing circle the drain and lashing out with these desperate make money quick schemes.
November 23rd, 2006 at 1:51 PM
I’m truely amazed but the peoples that want a central governement in secondlife, tax, strict policy, social worker paid by the tax, freedom restruction, … and all the stuff they usually complain about in the Real World.
I mean… in SL… your FREE ! Free to do what you want. And not let your behaviour dictated by politics and money. (you don’t need money to live in SL. don’t need to eat, drink, sleep in a house, …
November 23rd, 2006 at 1:52 PM
(forgive the typos, you were supposed to read “amazed BY” …
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:26 PM
I definately agree with you, Kerunix, on the issue of a “central” government. I was actually horrified by some of the comments I saw advocating a “real” government. Yikes! There, I think, Linden is on the right track: SL is a new way of “living” and the old way of governance simply won’t work with such an open, anarchistic world. Can you imagine one small group of people deciding what’s best for both Furries and 20-something young males who just want to go around shooting things? Geez, just think about what the rl governments are like in that regard.
Back onto the topic, what I was trying to say in my rambling post above is that if there’s a LL sponsored teaching group, it needs to have some sort of compensation (I like the idea of free image upload quota, myself) and some sort of feedback system, so students can rater their experience and help weed out bad teachers. Reward the good, discourage the bad.
Really, the SL world seems to be a meritocracy (I like meritocracies, but then again, I have skills already - an unskilled person would feel the system very unfair), but that only works when the unscrupulous can be discouraged firmly.
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:28 PM
I am one of those people who loves to teach and will continue to help people with a question now and then, but I was also using teaching to make my living, and have turned to other means of making lindens now, so will not be volunteering the time it takes to put classes together and present them.
In my opinion, the time spent preparing for a course is more intense than actually teaching the courses, and that is what the pay should be for. I would guess that planning and preparation for a new class takes anywhere from 3-15 hours. If there are ready made courses, with scripts and materials all ready, so that I could just show up and teach, that would be different and I might consider doing that occasionally, but I would not expect to see much if any change in “tips” people give…the courses I have taught are mostly for new citizens, who have no money to give if they want to get decent hair!
My time is limited, my rl work at a university does take some time…I teach people there too, and they pay me in real life money, which pays my taxes and buys my housing and clothing and food in real life. Instructors in Second Life, if they own land, also need to pay “taxes” and have some spending cash, unless you think we never need to change clothing :).
I think the service offered is valuable enough that a number of new citizens have stayed in SL after attending some classes, rather than getting bored and moving on to other online games.
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:33 PM
You don’t pay my stipend, You don’t pay newbies a startup fee, You don’t pay incentive for visitors and NOW you don’t pay instructors.
I down grade from member to free
WHY SHOULD I PAY YOU!
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:45 PM
I almost feel like the education cut was worth it just for the discussion it has stimulated. I see a lot of value in the “free-market” argument, and I think there is a good chance that it oculd work out for the best in the long run. I’ll keep my fingers crossed.
One of the intersting enigmas of SL for me is trying to figure out just what LL is truly trying to accomplish. I wonder sometimes if the 1984-ish nature of their “…we apologise for the inconvenience…” messages is intentional. It sometimes seems like their true goal is to through us all for a loop and see how we react. Or maybe I’m reading to much into it.
At any rate, I wait anxiously to see what the true effects of this policy change will be, and hope I can do a little bit to make the outcome a positive one. I haven’t tried doing any actual teaching yet, but after just over a month in SL, I often offer help and friendship to people who are obviously in need of it, and it’s something I enjoy quite a lot. I may volunteer once I’ve been here long enough to qualify, then again I may just continue to do it on my current “ad-hoc” basis.
Oh, and Rob Arten, you may want to reread the definition of “compensation”. Payment recieved for work performed most definitely IS “compensation.”
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:47 PM
Change “their true goal is to through us” to “their true goal is to throw us”. Thank you!
November 23rd, 2006 at 2:49 PM
Oh, and I’ll cast my vote for replacing teaching stipends with some other valued compensation such as free uploads as well.
November 23rd, 2006 at 4:03 PM
I don’t know where to start after reading them all, Yes I do mean them all! Opinions are like belly buttons, we are all SUPPOSED to have one, thats part of what makes sl a great place to LIVE. Yes I said live, as in live, to learn , to grow , to communicate and yes to PLAY.
I am an ll certified instructor, I say this with no less pride than I did a month ago, before i knew that they were no longer going to pay me. Lest I be misunderstood again I will say in print where anyone that cares to read, over and over till they DO understand WHAT it is that I am saying: I wil not charge for BASIC EDUCATION! I do not NOW charge for BASIC education.
WHY NOT? well for the very reason some say I should, because its all there for them, all they have to do is READ, they are NOT in classes JUST to learn! I know I am there with them EVERY day! They are there for the social interaction! To promote their businesses, Yes and to get the free textures that I have spent my OWN hard earned linden to get.
OK now we get to the WHY hmm have you ever taught a kid to tie their shoes? or ride a bike?There is they why, you know the answer. and IF you have been to one of my classes you know this statement, BE CREATIVE! I give you the BASIC knowledge, YOU tie that bow, pedal them pedals. Use your own head in this build, alter it to make it fit your likes, becase it is your creation
And to answer the question of “private schools”, such as the one I work with (that just so happens to be the BEST one) I Do not see it as a money making she/he is getting rich off of the linden support she is getting either!
MASSIVE tier fees I do see, Grievers disrupting classes, Instructors with posted classes that r/l interfered with, Complainers, NOONE can please EVERYONE in a class of 32 students! Lack of copiable textures, they list is as endless as it is for real life educators COME ON folks!! where is the incentive here? and on a final note, there ARE communitys out there, based on r/l! I live in one, where the residents set the land theme, play together, ie: boating, snorkling, we do have a “mini” government there and like the rest Of sl PLEASE dont say its not there! Get out and look, its NOT going to come to you!