Copyrights and Content Creation in Second Life
Monday, November 13th, 2006 at 9:57 PM by: Robin LindenToday I met with a large group of Residents, members of the Sellers Guild, to talk about the implications of a recently-developed LibSL product called CopyBot. CopyBot allows the user to create a replication of an object, including textures, that is fully permissive. Needless to say this product has caused tremendous worry among content creators who want to understand how its use may possibly affect their business. In particular, they are concerned about theft of their creations, and the potential for unscrupulous people to undercut their prices and essentially take away their business.
First a caveat. Copying does not always mean theft. There can be legitimate uses for copying, just as there are on the web. As Cory has written previously, copying is not necessarily theft, and in fact nowhere in the copyright laws does the word “theft” appear. Instead, the language focuses on the idea of violating a copyright — i.e. I have an idea which I own a copyright on, and you have profited from presenting that idea as your own. You have violated my copyright.
Merely copying something doesn’t mean that a copyright violation has occurred. The law discusses ‘fair use’, for example, as one type of copying that is not a violation. If you DO think someone has copied something you made and is violating your copyright by profiting from the copying then you do have the option of using the DMCA process to file a complaint. It’s a difficult process, but it is one that we’re willing to help enable because we agree that copying is a disincentive to creation.
Ideally we’ll build ways that you can better identify your work as your own so that copying it is not profitable. For example, here are some ideas that we’re pursuing to help you prove your ownership of an idea or object:
* You may have heard us talk about “first use metadata”, that is a time stamp that is attached to your creations, including uploaded textures, that shows first use. First use is an important part of being able to claim copyright ownership. This work is started, and we are committed to completing it quickly.
* We could work to reduce how much avatar/clothing data is downloaded, so that a copy can be made of the baked texture and shape but not the pieces. We’re interested in your thoughts on that option.
* We can reduce incentives to copying content within the system, by preserving the creator attribution such as with creative commons licensing.
* We could create hover text which would act like a garment label does, exposing both the first use metadata and also a brand name, reducing the incentive to copy by making it obvious that copying is occurring. If your work is “signed”, and clearly you developed it first, then the person who purchases the copy is not unlike the person who buys the fake Rolex off the back of a truck. Plus the signature becomes a recognizable asset and could be coupled with a landmark as a form of advertising.
These options allow you to prove that your creation is in fact yours, but ultimately it’s the DMCA process that provides you with the channel to protect your investment. It’s to your benefit to review the government’s rules for filing a copyright and protecting it, posted at http://www.copyright.gov/title17/92chap5.html. More government-provided information on copyrights can be found here: http://www.copyright.gov.
Copyright law is very complex, and for those of you building businesses protecting your investment will be an on-going challenge. We recognize the importance of helping you to manage your copyrights, and will make every effort to build features into the system to mitigate the negative impact of copying. Beyond that we will help you initiate the DMCA takedown process when appropriate.
I know you will have ideas and suggestions, so please feel free to post them here. While we can’t answer every post, we will be reading your comments and taking them into account in our ongoing development efforts.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:03 PM
Yes, but they still can’t copy the scripts with it can they?
November 13th, 2006 at 10:07 PM
;\ this is very disappointing, I guess the whole +/- copy mods transfer permissions thing on avs/clothing/objects was a pointless tag
November 13th, 2006 at 10:07 PM
Ok, so someone being able to copy an avatar that someone put their time and effort into so they could look distinct is not protected, as neither is someone buying a publicly sold avatar and copying it to give to others…. Yeah, there is something wrong with this, if an object is created inworld as No-copy its done for a reason, not so someone can create something for the express reason to copy. It may have some use, but honestly it will do far more damage.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:10 PM
There are some good ideas in this article - I think I’ll copy it and post it on my personal blog.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:23 PM
” i.e. I have an idea which I own a copyright on, and you have profited from presenting that idea as your own. You have violated my copyright.”
Technically, you can’t copyright an idea - however any “thing” you create should be automatically covered to some extent by copyright law.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:24 PM
With all due respect Robin, this sounds very depressing. Correct me if I’m wrong, but in a nutshell, might you be telling us, “We will not be able to prevent anyone from copying your stuff with this copybot, but when they do we’ll try and help you in your endeavor to report it.”?
November 13th, 2006 at 10:27 PM
I love how Robin is so gentle on the word “theft” so-to-speak. It’s almost as if a sin to say, “Hey buddy! You stole my creation!”
^_^ Love the Lindens!
November 13th, 2006 at 10:29 PM
Thanks for making a statement on this situation Robin. There will always be someone who figures out a way to bootleg stuff. It is great to see LL is trying to find ways to combat it before it gets out of hand.
As for this suggestion:
* We could work to reduce how much avatar/clothing data is downloaded, so that a copy can be made of the baked texture and shape but not the pieces. We’re interested in your thoughts on that option.
This could help as someone could not copy an entire avatar and market it’s clothes and attatchments individualy. They would in effect be stuck with just a mirror image that could not be used for much.
I worry about the griefing potential of this tool though. It seems in the wrong hands this could move beyond the grey goo attacks and instead duplicate avies until the sim crashes. It looks like a bumpy road ahead with this tool..
November 13th, 2006 at 10:33 PM
In regards to Macphisto…
As I assume it took quite a bit of work to create such a complex copy machine in SL, I do not believe that the creator(s) are going to just be giving it away, especially now that the whole of SL is watching them. However I do still think there is great potential for it to be used for griefing purposes.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:34 PM
Quite a few years ago the amiga computer was essentially destroyed because of copyright violations on software. Developers could no longer make profit from software being developed so they simply stopped writing software for the amiga and moved to other platforms. While software piracy is still a large problem, enough people purchase software licenses to maintain some form of market.
From a consumers point of view, many don’t care where they get products as long as those products provide the same functionality as the original and since here they are identical in every sense I doubt that they will care very much about the ‘label’. In real life if you purchase a fake rolex, you get a cheap imitation with nowhere near the quality, reliability or functionality of the original. This is not the case however within second life, a copy is a copy in all respects. When you’re wearing an item of clothing or using an attachment, I doubt anyone really cares where it came from.
This essentially means that you’ve created a great environment, charged people huge amounts to be able to make and distrubute content and then given others the ability to take that content at their will without any real way for creators to protect their work. There are already examples of this happening with content in world between the teen and adult grid, a notable example is Siggy’s water slide.
The DMCA process is a poor alternative since the original creator has to find the person copying and distributing the new items and since it takes less than a minute to create an alt there is really nothing to stop the person copying the content from having 20 or 30 accounts giving away the copied objects.
Essentially, if you want Second Life to grow and exist beyond a few more years, you really need to fix the problem of copying objects yourselves rather than leaving something else up to the community. Have a look at some forms of encryption and start to take the community a little bit more seriously rather than treating them like children.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:34 PM
Cheyenne, that is how it works in RL. Looking at the possible future of SL, this could be seen as a very positive view for Linden to hold (I know I think its very positive).
November 13th, 2006 at 10:35 PM
@Rapton: My understanding is that the scripts are not copyable.
@Blue: I really appreciate that LL is willing to pursue DMCA complaints on our behalf. Otherwise, the process of jumping through all the legal hoops would be a significant barrier to most content creators. Thank you for taking an active role in protecting residents’ IP rights.
With regard to the ideas you mentioned, the First Use meta-data is an awesome idea, especially since it could be used in other ways. Identifying a griefer that launches a grey goo attack, for example.
Adding that First Use meta-data to the hovertext of objects is also a great idea. A simple “Created by [firstname] [lastname] on [date] at [time]” added to the existing hovertext is all you’d need for this to work.
That said, don’t forget that this could potentially throw a LOT of extra queries at the already-severely-overworked asset server(s). Make sure the asset system is robust enough to handle the load so it doesn’t just shrivel up and die when we have 20k users in-world all admiring each other’s creations.
Take care!
- SDW ^..^
November 13th, 2006 at 10:35 PM
@RaptonX - yes they can copy the scripts
November 13th, 2006 at 10:37 PM
well in reality, something like this shouldn’t have been made in the first place, or even able to be made. It already destroys the entire point of us having permissions in the first place.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:39 PM
@Cheyenne: It would make no sense to disable copying entirely just because some people abuse it. That would be like outlawing CD and DVD recorders because some people choose to make illegal copies of music and movies.
Take care.
- SDW ^..^
November 13th, 2006 at 10:39 PM
Basically, Yes Cheyenne.
All the locks and cops can’t prevent anything from being stolen, only deterred, and so is the same in SL as FL. If someone REALLY wants to steal whatever it is you’ve produced/own/whatever, they will, and they only thing you can do is punish them once the infraction has occurred.
I like the ideas they have, they sound like they are going to do their best to prevent profitability in copying our original content, but of course, there are always those who have nothing to do but sit in their mommy and daddy’s basement and figure out new ways around the security. While we go to our 9-5s and hope the security in place holds.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:40 PM
I deal with image and photography licensing copyright in RL and I totally agree that this is a difficult problem to resolve. The whole legal side of things can get very complicated, very fast.
I have an additional suggestion:
* Create a Second Life “Registered Owner” service. For example, you “register” your articles via the SL website, listing the content as yours. The form is extremely detailed, sort of like a mini-trademark process. This data could be used to help content creaters “register” their content as theirs.
Of course the policies, like anything else, would need to be hashed out — for example, the fee for registration could offset abuse — but I think something like this in-world, while perhaps not perfect, could help to at least be one more tool in the content developer’s arsenal.
Key to making this work would be to NOT claim this database constituted “copyright ownership” only it was a deterrent/registration service to help assist buyers track back original creations.
-Lana
November 13th, 2006 at 10:40 PM
This is lame. The real problem is not a scenario where some dastardly fiend attempts to re-sell something that he did not create; The problem is copied products becoming essentially valueless once the permissions on that product have been compromised. How do you expect content creators to sell a compromised product that anyone could attain for free?
Furthermore, how do you expect content creators to remain in business under these conditions? Will the meta-data really truly help when thousands of full-permission copies of their products are floating around for anyone to simply give to anyone else? Do you expect the SL economy to stay afloat once everything except for land becomes valueless? I don’t think so.
Content creators need land to sell things on. Malls and clubs and all sorts of spaces that are directly or indirectly dependant on the existence of content creators all occupy land, which people must buy and pay tier for. Large investors and corporations that pay in-world companies like ESC need a stable platform to work on, and an audience to market to. People exchange real money for L$ to buy intangible things. All these factors are what pay for your power bill and put food on your employee’s tables, Linden Lab. What do you suppose is going to happen when everything has become “open source” against the will of its creators?
For the good of your customers, your supporters, investors, and for the sake of SL and your own, something drastic must be done to put a stop to this IMMEDIATELY.
Let me say one more time that the re-selling of stolen content is not the big issue here. The big issue is all content becoming completely worthless. Who cares what the time-stamp says when it’s free?
November 13th, 2006 at 10:43 PM
Lorathana, if SL really ever does expand beyond what it is now, or wants to get to that point where it can, it may *need* to be a more open platform. The WWW would not be what it is today if its development was controlled by one group.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:44 PM
Hi Robin, could you elaborate on this?
“We could create hover text which would act like a garment label does, exposing both the first use metadata and also a brand name, reducing the incentive to copy by making it obvious that copying is occurring. If your work is “signed”, and clearly you developed it first, then the person who purchases the copy is not unlike the person who buys the fake Rolex off the back of a truck. Plus the signature becomes a recognizable asset and could be coupled with a landmark as a form of advertising.”
Ok, I may be dense here, won’t be the first time, heh. Um, I doubt most people want text hovering over their clothing or furniture or whatever. Which would mean it would need to be disabled. Which would then negate the purpose since someone selling copies could just disable the text themselves?
November 13th, 2006 at 10:46 PM
Or do you just mean mouse over hover text? How would that work for clothing or avatars?
November 13th, 2006 at 10:46 PM
More the point: a copy is made every time content is viewed in Second Life. That the copy is only resident in your computer’s RAM is largely irrelevant. It’s always been possible to sniff SecondLife traffic and analyze how things are put together. It’s impossible to stop, and technical solutions are really no better than sticking your finger in the dam.
What SL needs is something that parallels a real-world copyright office and an expedited take-down process. It will always be technically possible to copy items: things like GL********t, screen captures, and even hand-constructing prim-based content aren’t going away.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:47 PM
@Io: This doesn’t mean the text is constantly visible. By ‘hover text,’ Blue’s talking about the popup that appears when you rest your mouse over an object. These are more commonly known as tooltips in other software.
Take care.
- SDW ^..^
November 13th, 2006 at 10:48 PM
1. I have heard people say the Sega Dreamcast was destroyed by software piracy, and now I hear that the Amiga was destroyed that way as well. I have never heard a substantive attribution for these rumors, and consider them to be just that — rumors, unfounded in fact.
2. As someone considering starting a business in SL, it is disheartening to hear about these problems, but they are not unexpected. I shall probably attempt to forge ahead with them anyway. Copying objects like this is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does wreck object rarity, which has always been a convenient fiction in Second Life anyway. It will also be interesting to observe how this will affect the world economy. Hearing that scripts are not copyable this way is a bit of a relief, but on the other hand….
3. Again as someone about to start a SL business I do not like the idea that my hard-built-and-scripted objects will be roaming around the sandboxes tomorrow, but as an internet citizen, I cannot help but feel a perverse joy in this development. In any case, I am unwilling to initiate DMCA-style requests to protect what I make — the DMCA is just bad law, and I cannot see how I could invoke it without bearing the stink of evil upon my soul.
Thank you for filling us in on the matter, this is important news. Ultimately it may not turn out to be bad, it is difficult to see all possibilities in this.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:48 PM
Intolerable:
When you set those rights on those permissions right there is already your copyright..that is your item, you choose to do with it as you please, and you choose to allow the next person to do with it with the “permissions you give them” A program like this goes aggenst everyone’s rights on SL, whats the point of building? I might as well go ahead and make my items full permission o.O
Sure an open platform is great, but in any open platform there has to be security. And something like this is obviously not secure.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:49 PM
Yeah, Shadow that’s what I realized after I posted, heh.
Don’t see how that would work for textures, though. But for objects it sounds like a good idea.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:51 PM
Bleh, I just noticed that I’m getting my Lindens mixed-up. My apologies to Blue and Robin for getting you two confused. XD
November 13th, 2006 at 10:52 PM
“Bots Back in the Box?”
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2006/11/bots_back_in_th.html
The distribution of this copying device may have been stemmed (lots of free copies already got out) but its effects remain untold.
What’s more important to think about is that we’re already hurled willy-nilly into a future world where there is no more property and no more commodities, only the flow of “creativity” which will be ever-new 24/7 creation paid for either by unbillable or low-paid hours from crowd-sourcing or subsidized by big corporations.
http://www.secondlifeherald.com/slh/2006/11/clones_pwnd.html
” Big companies will hire designers and programmers not for their discrete IP and making of discrete things to be re-sold in some kind of “market,”, but will hire them for their capacity to create major, compelling events at grid coordinates that people come to — and then move on to the next thing. The props for that stage-set might even be handed out that day after the big show to the audience, without any fussing over “IP”, because to keep the audience, the flitting mob, the creators will have to make something new — again and again and again.
They will be valued not for creating a static thing that grows in value with preservation or resale, but for creating flowing events brand-new every single day as the synthetic sun rises four times on the artificial horizon.”
The Lindens with their Second Life are of course preparing us well for this, since both land and money have begun to lose their value with their constant replication and copying, and now products, so prized as the heart of Second Life illustrating “our world/our imagination,” will more and be copied more, and creators will be lashed and told to just make more new stuff, or die.
Creators will respond by lashing at customers and browbeating, as they already do in many quarters, at any one whom they imagine is stealing their stuff, even if it means merely selling a used bed, or selling anything that is simply not on “sale/transfer”.
Now’s the time for LL to address the chronic angst of “freebie selling” too and simply morally bless it for ever more, since it is already legal in code — and not even expect “transfer but not sell” to work whatsoever (people will just make even more unrecordable side deals socially, and the problem of defrauded newbies that everyone wrings their hands about will only increase).
I’m finding it hard to understand how fair-use could work. What, I say I’m only wearing a stolen copy of a dress because I wish to reference the original creator in my artistic production of my so-called Second Life lol?
I say it is merely a thumb-nail that sources back to the original store?
Those are the kinds of allowances Supreme Court and other court levels have ruled in these kinds of cases.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:55 PM
@Dr Tardis, you’re quite right, it’s very easy to copy and reverse engineer things however at the moment as far as I know there is no protection on SL in any sense and I think they should take reasonable steps themselves to provide some level of encryption and protection.
It may not be a complete solution but at least it would be something and once done then the idea of the inworld copyright office I think is a great one rather than only relying on the dcma. Since all of the infringments would be happening within SL the lindens can do a LOT more to protect it’s customers than what exists at the moment.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:55 PM
One clarification Robin. CopyBot is not a product that we sell or distribute. It’s a debugging tool and silly demo with a [now] obviously bad choice of name. Hopefully you won’t be seeing copy bot on SLex any time soon..
The issue at hand with copy bot seems HUGE!
“Oh my god why would they do something like that?!”
But our our reason for showing this application around was partly we were proud of or achievement, and then on the other hand, if it’s this easy, we should tell people that relying on the Second Life systems to protect content is not feasible any longer.
For a while now we’ve had this project on the back burner that has been asked for so many times by content developers, an ability to back up content to your hard drive and restore it in Second Life. Basically import and export functions.
That’s the basis of CopyBot as well excepting the permission check. The problem is the difference between CopyBot and and import export tool is little more than 1 line of code that is easily commented out by even novice programmers.
What you see in CopyBot is the same capabilities that any import/export tool would have.
It’s not something easy to deal with, and we’re struggling ourselves with the issues that CopyBot has brought. It’s caused many personal conflicts as well between developers and their friends who do not see the merit in what we do.
Sorry for the ruckus,
Baba
November 13th, 2006 at 10:58 PM
“Copying doesn’t always mean theft”.
No of course not. Copying just means you’re taking someone else’s hard work, without paying for it, and doing with it what you please. What’s the point of having “no copy”?
You know LL, artists are some of the most territorial people in existance. You’ve just told them to bend over and get ready for a massive art raping. You’ve pretty much just made it so no one is going to be willing to build anything in SL for fear it might get stolen.
November 13th, 2006 at 10:59 PM
Lorathana, I don’t disagree that better protection needs to be provided for content providers, but like with anything else, if someone wants to copy something, they are going to likely do it. There are other ways to deal with something like this rather than preventing it altogether, which is what you said and I responded to. There are some great ideas being discussed above.
Regardless of where it goes, thank you Lindens for proceeding as you are!
November 13th, 2006 at 11:00 PM
As I understand it, the whole CopyBot thing would be illegal under DMCA and should be removed.
It is a tool whose sole purpose is to circumvent DMCA. According to DMCA, tools, whose sole purpose is to circumvent protection mechanisms, may not exist.
Just think how it’d be if somebody copied the entire SL game and dumped it on their own, cheaper servers? If I were the one to make the tool to do just that, wouldn’t you sue me straight to the gutter?
As stated before, the permissions system provides ample fair-use mechanism; backups aren’t needed in SL since nothing ever breaks or gets lost and at the very minimum, any player is able to buy goods and sell that single item for a markup. Please remember that fair-use doesn’t mean you can just copy things if you like; it has to have a valid reason which will ONLY benefit the original buyer of the original creation.
Another thing is; how do we even know our items are being copied? SL is too large to monitor. It could only be monitored by lost sales, and even then finding the purpetrayer would be hard if not impossible. How about altering the CopyBot code to notify the original creator whenever something is copied? Then perhaps the vendors could make a DMCAComplaintBot to automatically relay these to you?
November 13th, 2006 at 11:01 PM
Just give it a ew more days and it’ll copy scripts, sounds and animations. Just needs more development time. SL sends everything down completely open and unencrypted.
If this is allowed to continue tan SLs sales economy is dead. None of the above ideas treat the problem at all. No one really cares about “origninality” they just want that water slide that is on the sim next to them as others have said, they can either buy it or copy it. What is the point of permissions at all any more? THey are now useless. Utterly and totally.
SL needs to take an extreme negative stance to the use of this tool now. Ban users of it (implement code as mentioned above as necessary to carry out this process) and finally encrypt the stream as it should have been in the first place.
ALL games suffer from bots and stream hacking of all kinds. Does no one at LL realize this? SL is no different, and it WILL continue to be a bigger and bigger problem as time goes on. WHat happens when compeltely botted avatars start showing up and causing all kind of mischief as their creators can think up? Look to serious “cut off” solutions now.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:04 PM
As if someone except a few fanatics will go ahead and read a watermark or similar stuff first before they buy an item at half the price it’s original has…. is this a bad joke? If I find anything I have made copied this way, this was it for content creation for SL, simple answer, and I recommend everyone else the same. Robin’s article reads more like a justification not to deal with it, not like an attempyt for half-solutions.
Let’s not call it theft, it’s all for a good use…hurrah!
November 13th, 2006 at 11:04 PM
“You’ll be glad to know that reverse engineering your work and then selling it is probably legal in most cases.” “We would be glad to work with the comunity to add things to the data base at a later point in time that would help people know if the item someone else is using is an original or a knock off, if anyone even cares.”
Yes, I allready know that trying to prove a copywrite case in small claims court when I don’t even have the legal name of the person who violated my idea is pretty much a waste of time. I was hoping instead that you might try and hardcode something to make it impossible for them to do so. Instead you seem to admit defeat at this new hack. You could at least add a line to the TOS making it against the rules, kick out a viloator now and then, thus suggesting that it’s wrong.
If we can’t beat them with computer code, the next place to defeat them would be with community standards. To do that you would have to rally around the idea that it’s not something people should do. It would really help if Linden was on the team that was against it, instead of sitting there saying “Hmm, this is an interesting developement.”
As far as the idea of “reducing the amount of avatar clothing data downloaded” this seems to me just the smallest piece of the puzzle. What point are mod/copy/transfer flags when if someone buys one they can get full permision in seconds? What’s to stop shops from finding everything they make placed inside a single box marked $1 in a high trafic mall? How’s a newcomer going to know the difference between cheap and “legally copied without permision”?
Seems to me Second Life has been running on three games for a while now, Gambling, escorting and Building, each with the promise of making money and quiting your day job. This totally undercuts the builders. And don’t expect a lot of new content in the other areas anymore, now that content is free.
Oh, and as for anyone who is thinking “But it doesn’t copy scripts, right?” I’ve just one word: Yet.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:09 PM
Intolerable:
open platform does not mean lack of security, and it does not mean allowing something that can potentually cause alot of poeple grief and heartache, or even loss of hard work.
As Jakkal sayed and I really think this hits the point:
You’ve just told them to bend over and get ready for a massive art raping. You’ve pretty much just made it so no one is going to be willing to build anything in SL for fear it might get stolen.
IMO this can still remain open platform, by at the very least temporarily disabling that script till some more secure permissions can be brought to the people in second life.
that way everyone would be very happy.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:10 PM
[...] THis is from a blog comment I made to Robin Linden’s blog post on Copyrights and Content Creation in Second Life [...]
November 13th, 2006 at 11:21 PM
It´s a metter of trust. SL is transfering all the problems we have in “outside” world in cyberspace. Is this leading to the war on the end, also in SL? Also to creation of government and courts, a SL world president, police and secred service?
November 13th, 2006 at 11:22 PM
I’m sorry, but this isn’t just about sales. I actually sell primwear, it’s my business, and I admit that this script is a risk to that business. But to be totally honest? It’s not my primwear that I’m most worried about.
I have a unique av that I made for myself. It’s me, it’s my work, it’s part of my persona. I’ve been wearing it for ages and I will be wearing it likely until the day SL either goes down or I can’t log in anymore. Or I would be, under normal circumstances.
What this blog post says, to me, is that anyone is -within their rights- to use this script to copy my personal avatar that I made for my own personal use, and so long as they don’t sell it? Nothing I can do about it? Because it’s not copyright violation?
This is absolutely unacceptable. Linden Labs, you should be doing far more than this to protect user created content. I’ve pretty much been on your side on all but a scarce few issues, but this one here is really driving me over the edge. I am terrified to wear my own content because there’s a script out there that any random user can run to steal my stuff if I do. And if they take my av and start wearing it? It’s totally okay? You’re not going to lift a finger because it falls under ‘fair use?’
You really need to own up to the fact that either a) you have to do everything you can to protect user created content from getting copied in the first place, or b) make it against the EUA to actually do this stuff, so that people who -do- have their content stolen have some way to protect themselves -even if the person responsible isn’t profiting.- You may not be able to charge people for copyright infringement but you are well within your rights to ban people who break the EUA, and remove the copied items from inventories. Preferably both of these solutions should be implemented.
No, it is absolutely not okay to allow copying of stuff and then make a comparison to CDs and DVDs. Here’s a better comparison: if someone could come up with some fancy techno-gadget that could scan anything in the world around them and duplicate it, you’d be closer. And if that gadget was available to anyone who wanted one? Even closer.
I’d like to hear what your market analysts have to think about what would happen to the global economy if this were possible. This isn’t just about music or games. This is the -entire Second Life economy- that is up for grabs for anyone who wants it. It is -not- the same thing as CDs and DVDs. CDs and DVDs and recorded media make up a tiny percentage of the world’s economy, the rest of it can’t be copied so willy-nilly, and if it could, the economy would crumble. You think Nike is going to keep making shoes if anyone can walk into their store and just copy a pair for themselves? Who cares if people are taking copies of shoes and selling them on the street when -all of those people can walk into a shoe shop and just make their own copy.-
It’s a bad metaphor and even starting to consider it the same thing is going to make people afraid to create content at all. I know I won’t be wearing my avatar until I have some guarantee that my work will be private and protected.
I know that avatar vendors are at exceptional risk over this. Sure, there’s laws in place where if someone steals their work and starts selling it, they could go through the legal processes to convict them. If they’re lucky. But anyone can get these scripts, and anyone can copy any av they want, so why bother to pay? It’s perfectly acceptable, after all. Not like anyone is going to kick them off the game for it. What, are the avatar vendors just supposed to put up with it?
November 13th, 2006 at 11:25 PM
One question I would really love to ask, why was this tool developed for LIBSL, I can not see one viable purpose for the existance of a tool where you can essentially copy the avatar of another individual infront of you to exist. Why would someone develop that sort of thing unless for content ‘theft’?
Also open platform, and open source are kinda abused terms. Open source would imply that we are giving rights for other users to copy/alter our creations. This sort of tool take that choice away for us ;\
November 13th, 2006 at 11:27 PM
Hate to break it to everyone but there’s one simple fact here: this stuff happens and there is no way, short of permanently shutting down second Life, to stop it.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:27 PM
Ok LL, I would like my first comment to be moderated and go through now, since I know others went through immediately, and also I have heard from groups that have suffered from copying of their products on SL and they get told this too. Its not Theft, its just copying and get it brushed under the rug no matter how many times it keeps happening, Open GL already allowed textures to be copied without permission. now full primwork can be. Also, it doesn’t copy scripts, but it will copy animations while its running, so if you have an AO running and are copied, the copy will be running the AO till the program is stopped. As Farallon mentioned, it won’t take much to turn that to full script copying too.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:34 PM
Solar Legion, you have no idea what you’re talking about. Unless you have Linden as a surname, don’t start pretending to have the ’simple facts’ about Second Life’s code.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:35 PM
Lorathana: This is not a script in terms of LSL scripting. LibSL is a communication-compatible library to allow for third party SL clients. This is akin to Internet Explorer to Netscape’s Navigator, or even Netscape Navigator to NSCA Mosiac. LL’s servers in this would be the webserver. The webserver has no control over how IE, or Netscape, or Mosiac, or any browser chooses to show the information it presents.
The problem is that it is impossible. I don’t mean it in a ‘The servers are password protected’ sort of way. I mean in a sense of, ‘if you can experience it, you can copy it’ sort of way. Let’s try a real-world analogy:
You’re at a rock concert. You’re listening to some music. The musicians are the content creators. The guitars and amps and speakers are LL’s servers. Your ears are the SL clients are your ears. Now, someone brings in a tape recorder. And copies the content.
I suppose one could ban tape recorders, or any sorts of devices as such, but it’s a cat-and-mouse game, and one where a tape recorder does not necessarily mean illegal use. LibSL is meant for more than just L Ron Hubbard.
But okay, fine. Somehow, LL magically stops the tape recorders, even though they don’t have access to them. We’re going to assume the impossible here. But your content is still copied. Someone, after hearing the concert, starts humming some tunes, or singing the lyrics. Some people can even, just by listening to music, transcribe down the notes.
Once the data leaves a secure site, it is compromised. That is a truth about information. Once the encrypted sound has left the speakers, it can be re-recorded. Once the light has left the monitor, it can be videotaped. Once the textures have left SL’s buffers to go to the video card, they can be peeked at. And it does no good to encrypt it, because it has to be decrypted in order to be displayed anyways. And that is the situation.
Now can anyone stop that?
November 13th, 2006 at 11:36 PM
@ Solar: yes, that is rather easy for someone to say when they haven’t invested any time into creating something for sale.
DMCA issues… uhh…. hmmm, lets see, you have to track said theif down magically, and then prove he stole something, that works effectively and somehow returns all the copied objects back to the origional creator, and removes any distributed ones.
I mean honestly.. its hard to fix something like this without ohh say banning everyone with a copy of the script and somehow removing it or finding away to break it via an update….
My biggest question is, why hasn’t the grid gone down to address this issue yet? Apparently Luskwood has already had thier entire catalog stolen, or something of that nature.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:36 PM
Harle, you do not know what you are talking about either. Look around the internet for any site you can find that lists pirated materials and you’ll see what I mean.
Kindly don’t talk back unless you actually have your facts straight - I do. Short of shutting down Second Life there is no way to prevent such manipulations of code. someone somewhere will find a way and pas it on. Simple fact of coding.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:37 PM
Robin, I’m sorry, but this is bullshit. I agree totally with Lorathana; this should never have been made at all. There’s no reason to be able to copy an object which has no-copy permissions. If the creator wanted you to be able to copy it, it would have been set that way. What kind of ‘fair use’ can there be for stealing someone else’s work?
And quoting copyright law and talking about the DMCA process doesn’t make me feel any better; forgive me if I sound cynical, but I can’t honestly believe that any real world lawyers would care much about a videogame. Talking about copyright law is just a way to avoid dealing with the problem. It’s putting the responsibility for security on the victim, instead of on the platform which is making theft possible.
This is really unacceptable… in one breath, LL talks about content creation being the thing that makes this virtual world so great, and in the next they make it possible for anyone to steal whatever you create. Why bother to create anything anymore?
I’m probably sounding melodramatic here, but this really is making me nervous. I’ve been working hard to expand my SL business, which doesn’t earn me much as it is, and now I find that anyone could be copying my products. I’m almost thinking the time has come to close my shops entirely.
After seeing nimrod Yaffle’s Snapzilla pics of copied avatars, I don’t even know if I feel safe wearing my usual av. I have attachments which are unique to me, which I never make available to others, and which make up a good part of my identity. Is someone going to be able to use this copy exploit to duplicate everything about me?
I’ve been doing my best to deal with the constant crashing recently, and the other ongoing issues, but I think LL has really dropped the ball with this. Responding to this by saying, ‘Well, you can always file a DMCA takedown’ is not appropriate. I bet I’m not the only person who’s currently wondering if content creation is worth it anymore.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:39 PM
Theft is still theft Robin, and you and LL are refusing to pick a side. You are either with your customers or you are againest us. Pick your side and follow through.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:42 PM
One thing everyone needs to know:
No matter what Linden Labs does, no matter what forms of encryption they try to implement to prevent this, so long as assets are viewed by the client, they will be copyable. Even if the content is encrypted in some manner, it must still be decoded by the client in order to be displayed/used and so there will always be an opportunity to copy unless you just remove that functionality to view assets and then SL becomes IRC. =P
There is always a trade-off between functionality and security. Sometimes the only way a program can be entirely secure is to not provide very much useful functionality.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:42 PM
Does LL realize that once this copybot gets released en masse, everyone and I mean “every single person” in SL will have one.
Provided that we will still have any serious and/or talented creators left in SL that will even bother with this situation how will LL be able to control such widespread and frenzied copying?
And provided they give up attempting to prevent such widespread and frenzied copying, and instead attempt to control it through the DMCA process, will they be able to adequately assist with the hundreds, if not thousands, of copyright claims that will assuredly be reported on a daily basisly?
And how effective will these DMCA claims be against perpetrators with unverified accounts, not to mention those originating from places like China, or some third world country.
Can anyone, with a straigh face, seriously say that this is a good thing???
I have never been more concerned.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:43 PM
One of my businesses is making custom avatars closly based on the real person at the other end. This relies on security and people knowing that no one else will ever receive a copy of that avatar - they are unique. I guarantee no one else will receive one from me. Why cant LL provide teh same kind of security assurance?
November 13th, 2006 at 11:46 PM
Somehow, WoW and other MMOs have largely prevented people from copying objects and allowing things to happen that might harm their income. When people do manage to break that little rule, accounts get banned and the false content is destroyed. And then a patch is implemented to close that loophole.
-Somehow- they’ve managed to protect their code this much. It is not impossible to protect online content, and this attitude of ‘you can’t stop it, so don’t bother trying’ is downright frustrating.
Will people find a way to copy things? Yes. Are those holes impossible to close? No. They are not. You may close it to find someone else has opened another one three months later, but then you close that one too.
Second Life has gone all this time, six years is it? And barring GL you-know-what, this is the first time this sort of thing has happened. So yes, I expect LL to do everything within their power to break this exploit and any future exploits of a similar nature.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:48 PM
i love the idea of hover text being implacated, as i am only a month old and starting ti sell my own creations in hopes of funding my use of the game. wtg
November 13th, 2006 at 11:48 PM
I think someone copied me. Whatever will I do?
Seriously, though… this was something Tao Takashi hinted at on his blog some days ago in the consideration of a non-Linden-centric SL. It’s about the packets. Always the packets.
The information has to get from client to server and back somehow - nevermind server to server. It’s a killer hack in the right hands, and a killer crack in the wrong hands. I may not merit being invited to discussion groups for whatever reasons, but I create things and share them. Sometimes I sell them. Maybe I’ll start another business soon selling copies of copiers. Will that allow me into the ‘business’ aspect of the economic statistics?
I’d have to go with “We can reduce incentives to copying content within the system, by preserving the creator attribution such as with creative commons licensing.”. But I think that there is something more wrong within the system.
I agree with protecting copyright. But I wonder - wouldn’t making the creator’s rights permanent have some effect on this? If I create a “No Copy/Mod/Transfer” item, no one should be able to change the ‘No Copy’. But they can. And if I create a “Copy/Mod/Transfer” item, people shouldn’t be able to change it to ‘No Copy’.
In other words, the choice of the creator should be enforced throughout the asset’s and asset’s derivative’s life, and that should be enforced by the server to assure that it is done. This means that the solutions offered would be no longer relevant. I would love to know why this wasn’t presented as a viable solution - is that a technical issue or is it a problem of grandfathering?
November 13th, 2006 at 11:49 PM
“Hate to break it to everyone but there’s one simple fact here: this stuff happens and there is no way, short of permanently shutting down second Life, to stop it.”
So this means we should make it easier for everyone to do it?
November 13th, 2006 at 11:51 PM
Jerry Says:
November 13th, 2006 at 4:33 pm
As a content creator for secondlife , stability of the grid and data base is always a concern to me however there are other issues that need to be addressed and as you know , the copy bot from sllib thats capable of copying avavatars , clothing and prims , would you please post a coment on this blog so everyone here is aware of whats at stake and what you intend to do about this . Here is a link to a movie of this copy bot in action http://youtube.com/watch?v=nWQzKVfgSdE
If this is an exploit , you need to get a team on this right now .
This was my post this morning , and you are now just getting around to to notifying the pubic at large , I can’t begin to tell you that many of us knew about this and been researching this all day long me for one . I am a full timer here and make my living here , and my concerns are great as are many of us here . Somehow I get the feeling that you are trying to slide out of this by offering help with the The Digital Millennium Copyright Act of 1998 . No , thats not good enough , you created this so called platform as you call it , you say we can create here , owned by it’s residents , imagined by us , well none of us imagined this . This is your can of worms , ours too and we want something done about this yesterday and I know more then thousands of us feel the same way . The people who created this program should appear in a court of law and you should file the complaint . Your attorneys should make an example for all us to see your integrity . As far as I’m concern’d , I have watched SL go down hill ever since the free accounts have been opened and all because of what , media exposure ? . Take a real good look at all the media exposure your going to get now . The Better Business Bureau® Serving San Francisco, Oakland, and Northern Coastal California say’s you had 6 complaints in the last 36 months , I really want to make it 7 . Maybe 10,000 of us want to make it more ?. You plan on raising the price on all the good folks who bought islands just because they want to get away from all the crap going down on the mainland , you make feeble excuse’s to justifie this and it’s not going over well . Youv’e been a poor business model and your upper management is to blame . In conclusion I suggest you put together a think tank as to how your gonna get your behind out of this and get in touch with law officials , I more then wish you the best of luck , thousands of us depend on what you will do about this . . . . . . . . . .
November 13th, 2006 at 11:54 PM
Harle, good for them. I frankly do not look at that as ‘protection’ as it can still be accessed - just not in the same manner. Now please stop trying to disillusion people into thinking it’s possible to prevent completely - it isn’t.
When you come right down to it ther is no such thing as a foolproof or impossible to hack system, and quite frankly the ones that know what they are doing will not get caught for some time. when you wake up and realize this particular truth you’ll understand what I have said so far.
Banning accounts and making patches is a temporary fi, nothing mroe and nothing less - it does not stop or prevent such problems, in fact it only makes it worse because people will see it as a challenge. Now I am NOT telling people to allow it, nor am I saying nothing should be done about it: I am saying that no matter what anyone may wish to think, there is no such thing as a permanent, impenetrable fix to these issues.
Try all you want - these people do not care and will laugh at the attempts while making up a new way around it. All you can do is report them as they occur and wait for the enxt temporary fix.
Next time however don’t asume or put words in my mouth/on my screen. Nowhere did I say that one should not bother trying.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:54 PM
Harle, essentially, Solar is correct. This is the way SL is coded. *Everything* except scripts comes through the *client*. Textures, geometry (prims). So it’s just a matter of hacking the client which isn’t nearly as difficult as trying to get at the server. What is ironic is that the copybot does not in fact copy textures, it just links to them. But we all know there are other hacks that can do that already, using the same client side stored information, right off your graphics card on your own computer. It *does* copy the geometry, so objects can be copied to anyone’s inventory with full perms. There are Lindens in the LibSL group that made this, they know all this. It really is just a matter of time. Unless LL redesigns the whole thing and I don’t see that happening, do you?
November 13th, 2006 at 11:55 PM
I wish someone would clarify what objects can or cannot be copied with this bot.
avatar shapes?
avatar skin?
avatar hair?
avatar clothing?
avatar hair?
what objects?
items in boxes to purchase items in stores?
houses?
furniture?
cars?
what is in jeapordy so we know those of us newer in sl
November 13th, 2006 at 11:57 PM
Thank you Io. I’m glad soemone understood what I was saying.
November 13th, 2006 at 11:59 PM
I wanna know who at Linden Labs made the STUPID decision to allow a copybot to exist?? Who has their head so far up a dark cavity that they cant see the problem with allowing a chump user the means to copy items that have been CLEARLY and INTENTIONALY marked -No Copy-. Think about it ( you people at LL)…. You allowing some jackasss to make copies of other peoples items that have been marked no copy is no different then someone copying islands and giving them away. Please treat the content creators with a little more compassion. Be a little nicer to them
November 14th, 2006 at 12:00 AM
” there is no way to prevent such manipulations of code. someone somewhere will find a way and pas it on. Simple fact of coding.”
Hmm, let’s change the topic and revisit that logic.
“The is no way to prevent roofs from leaking. Given enough time, water will find a way to push itself into the house.”
OK, if I heard that from a roofer, I’d accept that there is some truth to that. Sooner or later a roof will leak. But if he followed it up with saying “So it’s best just to laminate everything you own, and not get too attached to pets that can’t swim.” I’d think he was nuts. Roof leaks, you patch it. Hole in your security? Same thing.
Never mind. We should just e-mail GM and the other new RL business that are moving into Second Life, let them know that everything they were told about having their IP protected isn’t true.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:00 AM
Well, I don’t buy this nihilistic attitude that there is no way of stopping it. That’s a big fat excuse. LL simply doesn’t WANT to stop it.
It is against the TOS to do this, and I quote (capitalized parts for emphasis):
——-
4.2 You agree to use Second Life as provided, without unauthorized software or other means of access or use. You will not make unauthorized works from or conduct unauthorized distribution of the Linden Software.
LINDEN LAB HAS DESIGNED THE SERVICE TO BE EXPERIENCED ONLY AS OFFERED BY LINDEN LAB by Linden Lab at the Websites or partner websites. Linden Lab is not responsible for any aspect of the Service that is accessed or experienced using software or other means that are not provided by Linden Lab. You agree not to create or provide any server emulators or other software or other means that provide access to or use of the Service without the express written authorization of Linden Lab. You acknowledge that you do not have the right to create, publish, distribute, create derivative works from or use any software programs, utilities, applications, emulators or tools derived from or created for the Service, except that you may use the Linden Software to the extent expressly permitted by this Agreement. You are prohibited from taking any action that imposes an unreasonable or disproportionately large load on Linden Lab’s infrastructure.
You may not charge any third party for using the Linden Software to access and/or use the Service, and YOU MAY NOT MODIFY, ADAPT, REVERSE ENGINEER (EXCEPT AS OTHERWISE PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW, DECOMPILE OR ATTEMPT TO DISCOVER THE SOURCE CODE OF THE LINDEN SOFTWARE, or create any derivative works of the Linden Software or the Service, or otherwise use the Linden Software except as expressly provided in this Agreement. You may not copy or distribute any of the written materials associated with the Service. Notwithstanding the foregoing, you may copy the Linden Software that Linden Lab provides to you, for backup purposes and may give copies of the Linden Software to others free of charge.
——-
What happened is LL decided to let this one particular group - libsl - be exempt from this part of the TOS.
The TOS is supposed to protect all of us. It is supposed to protect us from someone coming along and reverse engineering SL, and setting loose, for example, something that copies and changes the permissions on all our items. The TOS says so, and that is what we agreed to when we signed on.
But the TOS doesn’t protect us, because LL already decided that some people don’t have to obey it.
And so now what do we get? They have created this thing and set it loose upon LL. And now Robin says they can’t do anything about it.
What’s the point of having land and having a shop, if anyone can come in and copy whatever they want? And no, that isn’t “fair use.”
What’s more, three Lindens are actually in this group, so I suppose the Lindens themselves are doing this to us.
It makes me think they really do want us gone, or don’t care if we leave. After all, it won’t be a problem to big companies, with their real-world products and their real-world legal departments, will it? They’re not here to sell pixel products anyway.
coco
November 14th, 2006 at 12:00 AM
Robin, are you the copyright authority for LL? If so, you may want to familiarise yourself with the fact that you do not have to profit off of copyrighted material in order to have violated copyright.
Also, “fair use”? No, sorry. This does not fall under fair use guidelines, which are there in order to allow certain entities - news, educational and parodying foremost among them - to quote and ATTRIBUTE portions of the copyrighted work.
Among the things that determine fair use? The effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work. In this case, it renders it worthless.
Copyright law is a pain and a half, and it’s irritating, and it’s one of the most widely-misunderstood laws I’ve ever run into. That being said, it STILL impacts Linden Lab, SecondLife, and everyone within it.
Please hire a copyright expert soon, because y’all are going to need it.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:02 AM
I always thought that depriving one of ones income, monetary or otherwise, is theft.
I really think that LL needs to take a firm stand on this, as it will, as stated above, kill the economy, or what is left of it.
Why would I even bother to try to create an original item in SL, pouring hours of my gametime in it, only to see other ppl sell it at half the value, or even give it away?
Actually, those hours can be measured in lin too, so to see it as stealing/theft is quite legitimate.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:04 AM
Nobody Fugazi: The problem is (and I think others may be confused by this too) is that the “copy” is not a database copy of the object. It is a total recreation of the object using new prims by the user of the copy-bot. The new object is in their name every prim. So it is not possible to keep the creators name on it (and in fact if that happened that would be even WORSE)
Textures Im not sure about in this version, but it would certainly be possible to re-create the texture as well in future versions if it doesn’t right now.
But the bottom line is that the new object is a new asset
November 14th, 2006 at 12:04 AM
What worries me is that blog post has provided free advertisement for this product which will only increase the amount of theft. I am sure word would have gotten around quickly, but this has ensured that every user knows about it now, before Linden Labs can act. As a content creator, and a friend of many content creators, I find LL’s allowance of this product as very discouraging.
SL is a virtual world and requires custom laws to protect users rights. Copying without permission is very much theft in SL. Like as was mentioned before, I cant walk into a store and copy an entire Gucci handbag without any effort, but with this product I could go in world for an hour and come out with an entire island of merchandise for free! I I would like to see LL fight a bit harder to remove/disable items that can destroy SL businesses. Second Life has been closed down in the past (with little warning) to protect permissions and this item is just as threatening as any system glitch. Is there any way to update Second Life so that this product is unable to work? Hover texts are a good idea, but would it protect prim items/clothing/skins that are being worn? If not, then the idea doesn’t protect many items in SL. Also, it sounds like this would only work for items created after the label/branding process has been introduced, which means that all a person would have to do is find an older version. Hopefully this product can be rendered useless before any businesses are hurt.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:05 AM
Lorathana - I understand that ‘open platform does not mean lack of security’, but I don’t believe this is a script that Linden can just block.
Also, there is a cry for protection of copyright, but I believe Robin points out, simply because this can, at least, copy the appearance temporarily (what else it can do, I couldn’t really tell you… I’ve heard about everything now aside from pick one’s pocket), doesn’t necessarily violate copyright and doesn’t necessarily mean it will be used to or is intended to (but sure, if it gets out there, sure someone will, but then, don’t tools already exist to rip at least textures?)
This seems like SL has unintentionally been given an opportunity to try and work out some sort of reasonable way of dealing with copyright protection, one which may even sort of work and might be able to move forward with SL if it ever does end up on our own servers. Saying that we should ban apps that potentially threaten us for no other reason than that potential shouldn’t be the answer, and seems pretty unlikely to imo work.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:07 AM
Trevor: Everything just outside of your username and money. Though money is a iffy one because this kinda thing can, and will kill the economy.
The inflamatory response are mostly due to SL hiking prices and then doing nothing when something serious comes out. Im glad we are in good hands.
I have a lot of stuff I have made that well, I have never planned to sell, probbably won’t ever. But given the fact that it is MY content and MY creation, I find it appaling that someone with ten seconds of free time can snag it and give it away like candy if they choose to do so.
All this talk about it is okay because it was going to happen eventually is kinda sickening, the type of mentality to just lay down and accept it because someone was going to do it one day is just insanity. I mean…. Okay if you accept it, thats fine. But much like a lot of artists, I don’t care if I ever sell it, I did not enable it to be distributed, nor should it ever bee.
LL needs to do something about this issue. Starting with closing the grid till they can bloody access the situation. And as far as the linden situation goes on the creation of the script.
What the heck where they thinking? I mean… you pretty much just gave the economy a nice swift kick between the legs. With everything free, how soon do you think it will be before everyone is getting things they would purchase normally for free? At the rate things are going, if no one fixes this, I doubt SL will have any reason to promote investing.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:07 AM
Farallon, Botted Avatars HAVE shown up. LL just hasn’t said any thing.
This Copy Bot can be used to Copy Avatars, I have seen a building full of them, Yes I contacted Live Help and they cleared the sim.
But there is another problem with these copy botted av’s , False accounts. Each one had it’s own Registered Free Basic SL account, they were logged into the system. Each account was fully functional accept for one thing, the copy botted Av’s were nothing more then Mannequins,
The accounts were most likely registered through libsecondlife, this is a possible exploit. these registered false accounts CAN be used for Elicit or illegal purposes.
There is no telling what kinds of problems could be caused by these copy bots, These no telling how many might be ON the grid, right now as I type this post.
There is no telling what kinds of adverse side effects these ‘Mannequins can have on the grid.
could these things possible part of this weekends problems?
I would like to Remind LL any ‘Mannequins’ logged on the grid adds unnecessary load to an already heavily loaded system.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:08 AM
Trevor Cao, the answer to you question is: There is stuff they can hack now, and stuff they will need a little more time to figure out how to hack. As long as Linden labs isn’t interested in protecting the code, it’s safe to think that it’s all up for grabs.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:10 AM
I have over 15 years 3d data copyright issue experience.
In fact, it was my SFWEB3D group that lead to the current IP ownership benefits that have been the leading cause for SL’s growth.
To “accept” copybot into the Second Life network grid and then “say” copying is good, and NOT to attempt to squash whats only a piece of code,is not only disgusting in its disdain for content creators only AFTER they have provided the “cogs” for a private companies “equity” to profit from in a sale, but will be the end of this 3d system and the loss of much property.
Without adequate secure copy protection for content, the medium will end. You Tube “pundits” are finding out now that almost all its content of value is being removed by its original owners and the huge audience they now provide for google will by next years end by only a fraction of what it was during the illegal “high quality” content stealing days. The grid was not created by its users for only LL and its lawyers and priivate investors to profit from. It wasnt advertised, nor promoted for that mean as well.
LL, before you sell to yahoo or MS, realize that death buy thousands of lawyers vs death by one or two corporate lawyers, is the same death. If not for you but for your buyers stock owners.
Disallow copybot from being introduced into the system of your code and copy protection within your closed file formats. this should be a simple and non starter issue as a service that distributes others IP for profit. DO NOT try to hide behind bs DMA ISP laws that are tenous anyway,and present you as hypocrites.
Ive built 3d immessive web projects for years, copy protection was the reason SL or similar wasnt adopted by corporate media as offered since 1997. Then Flash offered a decent amount of protection and control so that content owners could “decide” for themselves HOW there property was to be used. Though not perfect, the protection provided in the SWF format SOLD many copies of Macromedia Software and encouraged the corporate media adoption of the internet.
The SL permisions system as it is and as its promoted, is the ONLY reason SL has been adopted by entrepenurial developers to allow SL to find AOL like early success against other 3d online systems.
This is PROPERTY LAW, not copyright LAW. PLEASE understand that NOW before you suck another 5 years away from the 3d immersive metaverse and the businesses that provide for its usage.
larryR
cube3
I will be folllowing this closely, I suggest that COPY PROTECTION at the level of which was described when i entered SL is to maintained and supported. If LL is now to permit the introduction of “code” that removes and endangers the IP that LL has soliceted and profited from then a reassessment of the viablity of SL as a “platform” for developers and business clients must be looked at by all.
Only LL controls its platform. Only LL controls it’s accepted and legal uses. Decide what business youre in, and understand your relationship with your customers. Or the courts and public opinion will do it for you.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:11 AM
Trevor: There are already similar hacks that can take any texture that you “see” in SL. These are all stored on your computer, it just “unlocks” them from your graphics card. Textures are skins, clothing etc.
What copybot does is duplicate *objects*, meaning anything made out of prims. It can mirror, link to, a shape, and I suppose all you would need to do is make a note of the sliders to duplicate it permanently.
Really, there is nothing in SL that can’t be copied because it’s all coming through the client. Except scripts but people have had them stolen as well.
Even with the earlier hack that can steal textures people continue to make and sell and do well with their businesses in SL. Yes, there is theft. There will be more now with the copybot. My hope is that it will remain a problem but not a show stopping kind of problem. Since, in effect, the cat is out of the bag already and anything done is going to be after the fact. At this point, other than filing a DMCA or putting some deterrents in place, I don’t see LL doing anything about it and I don’t think they have the resources to deal with policing the entire grid for this kind of theft.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:12 AM
Its called Duping and has gone on for years. Credit duping , item duping has been in MMo eviroments since day one. It is expressly forbiden and banable in every MMo I play. There must be something odd going on here if the makers of this game allow it.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:15 AM
Speaking of ‘putting words into people’s mouths,’ Solar, why exactly are you saying I’m ‘trying to delude people into thinking there is a complete solution?’
When exactly did I say that?
I said exactly what I said; they should close this hole, now. They can do that. You know it, I know it. Any talk about ‘complete, permanent fixes’ has been purely your own imagining, and it didn’t even take part in your first post. You falsely stated that there was no way to stop this problem without shutting down Second Life. You made no attempt to distinguish the difference between ‘temporary’ and ‘permanent’ solutions, a distinction I made clear in my follow-up post. So don’t twist this around; you’re the one deluding people into thinking there is no solution.
This is the internet. Everything is temporary. Even the solutions. That’s par for the course and I fail to see why Linden Labs should avoid temporary solutions to an ongoing problem that can’t be permanently fixed. They -are- getting paid for this, yes?
In any case, this blog isn’t for back and forth bickering.
November 14th, 2006 at 12:19 AM
Sorry if this has been mentioned before, I’ve skim read this, but is there anything in The Creative Commons movement we can apply to SL?
November 14th, 2006 at 12:19 AM
Io Zeno:
The theft of textures and of avs using the prim mirror were MORE than a minor annoyance. And those were very painful and time consuming to pull off. ALMOST worth just hand making them yourself.
This new prog