110 Responses to “[UPDATE] Open Registration”

1. 1 Gordon Wendt Says:
   June 27th, 2006 at 10:56 PM

   Thanks for adressing these issue, I know that many people (including myself) have serious concerns about the open registration process but these help aleviate my conerns a little. Just a question though, is there a timeline for the implementation of parcel access maangement based on information status, and will that ever be extended to cover only people who pay the $9.99 monthly fee (which would be a big mistake I think) or not? thanks.

2. 2 Adam Says:
   June 28th, 2006 at 12:30 AM

   Most of this sounds good, but what Oh! what reservations I have when reading the teen/main point: won’t this see many, many teens now skip straight to the easier-to-register-for main grid instead of Teen SL? Lieing about your age for immediate anonymous fun seems so much of a better option than having to explain to your guardian why you want to feed their credit card number into a web site.

3. 3 touchahoney Perhaps Says:
   June 28th, 2006 at 12:33 AM

   I understand your concerns to verify certian info. However relasing this info to the public however, not detailed invites hackers to azttempt to hack accounts to steal credit card info. labling these people as credit card holders makes them vulnerable to these issues. Only linden labs should be privy to such info.

4. 4 Kris Says:
   June 28th, 2006 at 12:37 AM

   Pathetic. Call that a solution? Turning the client into spyware? It’s amazing just how fucking dumb LL manage to be day in, day out.

5. 5 Lyr Says:
   June 28th, 2006 at 1:03 AM

   It is not wise to let others know which accounts have credit card info. While the intention is good, it does identify viable targets and is not what the residents desired when they signed up for the service.

   Perhaps the anonymous accounts can come with a 30-day “try it and add credit card info if you want to stay” method? That way, no one is identified by type and guests can see if they want to participate in the membership program, even at the free basic membership.

6. 6 Anonymous Coward Says:
   June 28th, 2006 at 1:05 AM

   Adam, I agree with you on that point.

   Touchahoney: Before a few months ago, *everyone* on SL had to have a credit card, and any hacker could have targeted any account and gotten info. This change would only let them know who not to hack.

   Kris: Sending hashed hardware signatures doesn’t count as spyware - no personally identifying information is sent to LL, the only information they could tell from this is what accounts are being accessed from any given computer, which is really nice for linking griefer accounts, and doesn’t negatively affect anyone else.

7. 7 Rich Says:
   June 28th, 2006 at 1:09 AM

   Adam is absolutely correct….releasing credit card information, no matter HOW little detail, into your profile is an extremely ignorant move…._especially_ just “to show residents how much commitment a citizen has made to the SL community” ….WTF!

8. 8 Gwyneth Llewelyn Says:
   June 28th, 2006 at 1:40 AM

   I think people are misreading what Robin said: you won’t get any information on what credit card/PayPal account you used when registering, just that LL has that information on their files.

   After all, we have currently 250,000 validated users, with exactly that type of validation (and perhaps 50,000 without any validation whatsoever). “Validation” does not mean “information”; no hacker will benefit from that “bit of information”, since there is really nothing that is displayed!

   Rich, I understand that you don’t view “commitment to the SL community” equating with the willingness to pay for the service you use every day. Well, actually, I agree to a degree Commitment to the community is not the same thing as commitment to LL I personally have both types of commitment — in the sense that I recognise that there can’t be a “SL” without a profitable LL to run it — and thus, on my 3rd day in SL, I’ve “upgraded” to a lowly Premium account with just a 512 m2, which I don’t even use, since I only rent land. But I did it like I do with all software I like — contribute towards the running costs of the company, to encourage them to continue the development. But this is just an ethical/moral issue, not one “rule”; nobody is required to pay just because they feel they’re helping out LL to improve their software; and actually, 85% or so of all SL users don’t feel any moral urges to pay for a software they use. I’m all for creating mechanisms where people are encouraged to pay because they see some sort of benefit in it (where morals fail, setting a value to things is usually the best approach to getting payment ).

   Robin, I’m glad LL is doing this change, specially, falling back on the need of providing a valid registration on the Teen Grid, although many will still feel uncomfortable with the idea that teens will continue to lie about their age to enter the Adult Grid, where no validation is required. At least, the Teen Grid will continue to be a safer place; the issue will remain unsolved on the Adult Grid, however.

   Have you any plans of at least introducing the limitation that unvalidated accounts are unable to enter any Mature areas? While this won’t be the “optimal” solution, at least it would allow two things:

   - People would still be able to log in, and not all those people are interested in adult content (yes, how strange that might sound, many people are perfectly happy to stay on PG areas ). Thus, that would not stop “hordes of users” logging in, like it’s happening at the moment, and very likely it would encourage a lot of them to upgrade to Premium, which would finally get some real encouragement: getting access to *all* areas of SL for as little as US$6 a month.
   - Minors lying about their age would at least be restricted to PG areas. While this is naturally not ideal — we all know how often people don’t care about being on PG areas, but at least that is covered under ToS — it’s a first step. Many minors log in to the Teen Grid and are disappointed in the lack of content there. By coming into the Adult Grid, they would see themselves locked to big part of the grid — and eventually go back to the Teen Grid, where they wouldn’t have any restrictions. I assume, though, that having 1000+ PG sims to explore would still make many to stay at the Adult Grid…

   Next question: are you planning to introduce additional forms of validation that do not require a credit card or a PayPal account? I’ve browsed a bit on the ‘net just to see what is available, and there seem to be some systems similar to notary publics, where people would be able to provide IDs and get a digital certificate in return. Verisign and Thawte use a similar system for their digital signatures. If you go your own route of ID certification, you also create a “web of trust” — companies and individuals working on a “validation network”, that would be certified by LL to accept IDs and provide a valid certificate to end-users according to some procedures established by you. Of course, this means getting rid of all anonymity in SL, which would be a shame, and if some people are reluctant to use their credit cards to provide identification, they will be even more reluctant to provide real IDs (even to 3rd parties in their own countries…), but it’s another possible alternative for validation without a card.

   Still, it’s best to have something than nothing at all, I guess. I understand perfectly that you need to grow much faster — and beyond the US space as well — and that the registration process was indeed a stumbling block for many people, who simply didn’t trust LL *not* to charge them anything when they presented their credit cards. I just wish that there were other ways.

   FYI, I’m registered at many adult sites with highly mature content. None ever asked me for a credit card (except to access special services which I don’t need) or any other means of validation. I don’t have the slightest idea on how they keep minors away, but you should investigate their techniques. And rest assured that the content there is far more “dangerous” to minors than SL…

9. 9 robert omegamu Says:
   June 28th, 2006 at 1:41 AM

   i think ll is doing a great job and the modifications are a brilliant idea and those who think just displaying some info makes you more targetable then you are nuts your on the internet your all targetable dos not mater whether you hide it or show it if they want to find it they will no matter what you do you can only try you best to secure it and that’s what they are doing as for spyware don’t be daft two completely different things they are using a way to identify the user pc and user account not throw web pages and spam at you come on be serious. at the end of the day they can only try see how it works then pull it if it dos not work trial and error its how the world works learn from the past and all that stuff lol

10. 10 Daniel Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 1:52 AM

    If the status of whether you have a CC (Credit Card) on file (even if you are using a “free”, CC and free just do not go together, account), is going to be avaiable to all, then I can see that info being abused, and used as a form of discimination against non-US people, or any security concerned person (if you provide your CC to any “free” site, then I have a few web sites to show you, and a bridge or two
    If the state of your CC info is going to be available, then it needs to be CLEARLY visible when it is used to discriminate, maybe a warning presented to the user that person X has looked up that info (same for banning on land). At least that way it is clear that the person is using the information in some way.

11. 11 Nalirra Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 2:09 AM

    Why not just put “Validated” or “not validated” as the info instead of “payment information on file”….I mean..validation is a little broader and could include basic accounts validated through a cellular phone (if LL still uses that method :P). It becomes less about payment and more about whether the user has taken steps to prove his or her identity.

12. 12 katykiwi Moonflower Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 2:13 AM

    Robin,

    I realize this is off topic but a remark in your commentary reawakened an old question I had been asking for a long time. You stated “We currently include information about your account in your Second Life profile, including your account name, age, and type (e.g. Lifetime, Resident, Charter).” I am once again asking about the Lifetime designation in profile.

    When we purchased the lifetime memberships it was promised that our profiles would state “Lifetime” membership in the account type. Unfortunately this was never actually done. Your memory is correct when you state the profile should include lifetime as an account type and I would really like to know why it was never actually done for the lifetime members. The only two account types listed in the profile now are Charter and Resident; the promised Lifetime account designation is missing.

    I asked about this many times after purchasing my lifetime account in 2003, and then into 2004, and never received a reply. Would you mind looking into this and perhaps correcting this oversight for the longterm SL Lifetime members?

    Thanks, katykiwi

13. 13 plexreticle Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 2:47 AM

    All the labeling of accounts just makes a type of class system that does nothing. Why not impliment a payment program that folks in Europe and Asia can use? Seems that every time LL makes a policy change it’s drastic.

    You guys (LL) really are exposing yourself to lawsuits. Kids have no place in SL, teen grid is a joke and should be closed down. Age verification needs to be implimented to protect LL and their long time residents.

    Does LL have legal council?

14. 14 Malana Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 2:56 AM

    I do not agree with the above changes at all.
    While I understand that ANYONE who uses the internet is vulnerable to hackers etc I think anything that *flags* you so to speak, to the public as someone who specifically uses a Credit card or Pay pal isn’t a smart thing to do.

    Also, using hardware & other means to decide where an account or accounts are logging in from isn’t necesarily the key to figuring out griefer accounts either.

    Many INDIVIDUAL people use Shared PC’s to log into SL. So if someone who lives with me, Visits, or works with me & uses the same pc and/or internet connection to log into their SL account & they do something they shouldn’t does that mean MY account is at risk for being suspended or banned?

    Just because multiple accounts possibly log in from the same places doesn’t make them all the same person logging them in.

    Also think LL should bare in mind how easy it now is to create an account using someone else’s name & other information.

    I really don’t feel that either of these “solutions” resolves anything at all.

15. 15 Gwyneth Llewelyn Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 3:47 AM

    Just remembered something else. Since your web designers are tweaking the registration page, couldn’t we have also a reminder on that to alert people that they cannot change their avatar name once they pick it, since it will be tied to their in-world identity forever? Many people don’t have the slightest idea that their name will be “fixed” forever, and also, this would re-inforce the notion of “you’re being tracked so make sure your registration data is correct”.

    Also, you should have a better way for people to be able to resubmit their identification data. I’ve changed my home address quite a while back, and the only information I had was that I should send an email to to request the change, but I don’t know if that information was ever received — or changed! Perhaps an interesting possibility would be to show all that data on the account page, but have it read-only, and use a form-to-email thingy to alert that a request for changing this information is pending (10 minutes of web development time ).

    Just some thoughts — marginally related — but I have yet failed to see a “social site” where people couldn’t see the information they’ve submitted online to the company. Actually, European law mandates this, although a request to to get that data pasted back on an email would suffice for compliance. It’s just an extra burden on your staff to do it manually
    I’m eagerly awaiting resident #300,000 to log in today

16. 16 Gwyneth Llewelyn Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 3:53 AM

    Oops. Seems that this blogging engine ate up the email address I wrote above to indicate where one should send requests for changing their registration. It’s privacy@lindenlab.com. Sorry about that
    After reading some more, I agree with all who have submitted the idea that the only information displayed on a profile should be simply “Unverified User”, “Validated User”, “Validated and Paid User” or whatever similar names your marketing team comes up with, without any reference to the way a user has been validated or paid for their account.

17. 17 Jax Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 4:45 AM

    Couple of comments. While the unique computer information collection may not be a form of spyware, I still struggle to understand the value of collecting this information. The stated benefit is “The point here is to allow us to verify a unique identity and therefore better contain griefing by multiple accounts from one system.” This statement makes me wonder…is there a significant problem of people griefing with multiple accounts? Then of course what of the situations where several people share the same system (i.e. family computer, husband and wife, couples, etc)? Same computer, different accounts…will those accounts now be forced to grief with a single voice? I’m not convinced the intention of computer information collection is for “unique identification.” The approach is flawed and will more than likely raise suspicious of SL residents.

    As for the statement of CC information in your personal profile. I agree this statement does NOT make you any more vulnerable to attacks for CC information than you currently are. Only until recently everyone had a CC on file with SL. If someone wanted that informaion, then they only needed to target anyone in SL. Simply put, you will be no more vulnerable to attacks today than yesterday.

    What will really happen by stating the CC status in the personal profile is just what a someone already mentioned here: discrimination. I’ll admit it. If someone doesn’t have a CC on file, then they won’t be allowed on my parcel of land. Furthermore, I will be suspect of socializing with anyone that does not have a CC on file as I will immediately suspect that they are a minor or masquerading as someone or something that they are not. Now, don’t freak out, I understand that even with CC on file today, people still could be minors and masquerading as someone or something they are not. Now, however, the lack of a CC on file makes it much easier to spot such people, which begs the question: “Will this actually create a lesser class of SL citizens?” I’ve made my intentions clear. I will be practicing a bit of discrimination based on this information. But I am only one of many. What will everyone else do?

    Finally, I welcome the display of CC status in a personal profile; however, I just wonder if there wasn’t a better way. Someone suggested a free 30 day trail membership. After time expired you would have to provide your CC information. Not a bad idea. Not perfect but not entirely bad. I’ll admit, I came to SL because the initial account was FREE. I had wanted to try Everquest and WOW but stayed away because I didn’t want to make a monthly subscription commitment. I tired SL and loved it and within a few weeks upgraded to the premium account. Basically, the idea of some sort of “try-before-you-buy” approach might address the CC status issue better. I don’t have any answers, just throwing that out there.

18. 18 Prokofy Neva Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 5:11 AM

    I’m very concerned that you are creating a society that is further stratified and more tightly ruled by elites. By enabling the ability to mass-ban people merely on their class status of “unverified” or “semi-verified” and making only participation in commerce a qualification to prove “commitment to SL,” LL is introducing a very rigid caste system. It’s not a Better World, it’s a Worse World.

    You’re also no doubt indicating that you will be more vigorous about grabbing the IP addresses. That means that family members or neighbours accessing the same computer could be harassed by Linden bureaucrats who will not ever answer support@ Instead of actual griefers being targeted, these types of accounts will be targeted merely because they’re there to be targeted and some supervisor will be tasking staff to show “results”.

    I’m glad there are open accounts with less hurdle for foreigners. I don’t understand why, if a teen signing up for the teen grid has to click “yes” that he understands the consequences of not really being 13-17, that people signing up on the adult grid don’t also have a simple click-through to a “yes” that they acknowledge that they are at least 18 or over. It’s odd. All the adult-type sites have this on the Internet.

    You keep reaching for hardware and technical solutions to social problems. The incidents of griefing are definitely increased, and definitely target the same hardspots, but you need a wider variety of policies to deal with this.

    One is to stop the celebration of guns and shooting that you’re doing across SL constantly, even though this isn’t a game, and it isn’t set up to accommodate the desire for FPS type activity.

    Another is to bolster the police blotter to show more incidents, keep a memory longer than a week, be searchable, and also have the names of perpetrators AND those who press charges against them and the Lindens prosecuting the case.

19. 19 Cherry Czervik Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 5:12 AM

    No verification system is perfect, no matter what is put in place people will find a way to misuse it. My RL job involves keeping minors off our gaming services and also spotting fraudulent accounts and transactions is a daily thing.

    Robin, thank you for your post, clarifies a lot of my questions as to how you were planning to implement these changes. I personally think something a bit less cumbersome as a rider (for instance Silver, Gold and Platinum) might be a little bit better from the Customer Service point of view

20. 20 Lecina Enigma Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 5:12 AM

    btw, Datacollection of Hardware is in many Countrys here in Europe against the Law.

    THIS means in all Manner…

21. 21 Karmianna Hartunian Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 5:51 AM

    Thanks for the update. The addition of account verification to the profile in todays update is useless without the tools to make use f the information.

    The problem of the free accounts is still there and causing me and my friends alot of grief. Every day for the past week we have had various new accounts walk in our houses and shoot us or ask for free items etc. This rarely happened before open registration.

    We need the tools now, actually we needed them before LL made the changes.
    Doing things in this order shows no consideratin is given to your paying client base. We are cnsidered a given and no need to worry about us first.

    I am curious to see how long it will take before LL rolls out some usefull tool to help us deal with this screw up.

22. 22 Mark Wallace Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 6:12 AM

    Robin, can you tell us exactly what hardware information will be collected? Thanks!

23. 23 nekokami dragonfly Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 6:17 AM

    Robin,

    Thank you very much for this clarification. It would have been nice if this had been done before the account verification change was made, but better late than never. I’ll give the changes a month or so to settle in, then I should be able to let my kids back in Teen SL.

    Regarding privacy issues, folks, your IP addresses are collected everytime you browse a web page. There’s a bit more info being collected here, but no more than is gathered when you download a free 30-day trial of a Macromedia product.

    Regarding tiered citizenship, I don’t plan to discriminate based on verified status, only on behavior. If you’re worried about discrimination, don’t practice it.

    Best regards,

    neko

24. 24 3pointD.com Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 6:50 AM

    Linden Lab to Create De Facto Tiered Service

    As we wrote about earlier on 3pointD, Linden Lab, creators of the virtual world of Second Life, has been met with an outcry over recent changes to their registration system, which no longer requires billing information or real-world identifying data of…

25. 25 Karmianna Hartunian Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 6:52 AM

    Oh and Do not forget we have FLEX PRIMS now.

26. 26 Maximillion Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:08 AM

    I don’t think many of you understand what it is they’re doing. As Robin stated the hardware information they are collecting is coming to them in the form of an encryted hash, they will NOT be looking at your system information. This kind of protection is used all the time in music recording software. Basically they use your hardware configuration as a sort of fingerprint as the likelyhood that two computers are using identical hardware is small. In essence a griefer could make mulitple accounts but if he’s using the same computer all his accounts will be flagged immediately. I think it’s a very good solution.

    As for the hacking argument….I don’t see how it’s any more difficult now to go to any plot of land on the grid and see who owns it. That person will obviously have their CC on file with LL.

27. 27 Rose Evans Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:10 AM

    Might have been asked / answered, don’t have a ton of time to go though all of it (glances at the clock and twitchs) … As SL will now use your hardware to ident you, what happens if you upgrade your hardware or otherwise change your hardware ? Will SL freak out or what?

    Rose

28. 28 Reagan Nadir Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:18 AM

    I think LL is trying their hardest to satisfy our needs in SL. They are doing what they feel is best for residents. But, if they feel like in the future that SL is “credit card only” deal.. There goes my account.

    [xo.Reagan]

29. 29 Aliasi Stonebender Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:21 AM

    Gwyn, once again, is being a voice of reason, but maybe somebody needs to restate things more bluntly than Robin or Gwyn. Luckily, that’s why I’m around. *grin*

    Firstly: If you’re account was created before 6/6/06, you’re already a validated account. LL is not “creating a way for the EVIL HACKERS TO STEAL YOUR INFOS!!”, they’re adding an option they didn’t have before. If you weren’t worried about losing your credit card info before, I wouldn’t worry now. Unless there’s been some rash of credit-card theft in SL I was previously unaware of…

    Secondly: The sort of hardware information LL is gathering is, if it’s anything like similar systems in use elsewhere, strictly limited to noting major identifying marks of your computer system and boiling them down to a hashfile - which does not allow someone to figure out any identifying information other than “hey, this account has this hash, and this other account ALSO has this hash, so they’re probably coming from the same computer.”

    Even if they could, the information is going to be limited to the sort of hardware that’s in your computer. LL will not be able to tell your favorite foods, colors, or which hand you like to masturbate with. I support privacy, but there’s a difference between “privacy” and “total anonymity”, and ultimately the information that will be useful to LL is the same sort of information you already spread far and wide in normal use of the Internet.

30. 30 Wraith Unsung Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:22 AM

    As an owner of a Mature Sim, this change really worries me. I keep hearing about Adults on the Teen Grid. What I am not hearing is concerns about children having a much much easier time gaining access to the adult grid.

    I am a parent, and the things that go on in the Mature areas are NOT for minors. Up until now, I have felt that it is pretty certain that the people coming into my sim and engaging in adult activity are in fact adults.

    With nothing but an email address to verify, I don’t know how I can feel secure in this any more.

    Minors will have a much easier time logging into the adult grid, and the first place a teenager is going to go is to adult oriented areas.

    When scores of parents across the glove discover their children accessing sexual content in Secondlife, who is going to hold the blame for providing that content to their children? Linden Labs, or Content Creators?

    Sexual roleplay between consensual adults is a big part of SL. How can I be reassured that I am not providing access to innapropriate material to minors?

31. 31 Raavi Mann Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:22 AM

    Brilliant solution… NOT
    Example: My friend doesn’t have an internet connection and is using my connection and my computer to access SL. Since he’s a newbie to the world he is bound to make a mistake or two… but that means MY account is at risk too!
    Also, adding the “verified vs non-verified” info… bah, why do I bother? You guys never listen because if you would you’d roll back to the old system long ago

32. 32 Silvermane Fluffball Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:29 AM

    Cherry Czervik: Well, if it’s illegal in your country, you better stop using SL then.. But do take into account, that the laws of the country in which the servers to login stands, are the laws that will be taking into account.. Also i’m pretty use that they will state it in the policy, before you even install the game.. Soo..

    Also, if you want another example of games that use hardware verification, look at World of Warcraft. They just do it without even alerting their users..

    All in all, i think it’s a good amount of changes. So far i haven’t myself had any problems with griefers or such in SL (not more than before, when all needed a credit card), but after what i read about the credit card on file, it sounds like they will just use:

    No Payment Info on File - account was created with no credit card or Paypal
    Payment Info on File - account has provided a credit card or Paypal
    Payment Info Used - credit card or Paypal on account has successfully been billed

    No info, Info on file, Info used.. So people can’t really see how you pay for SL here, only if you have it on file, and has used it in anyway (buying Linden, paying month dues and so on)..

    So personally i cannot see anything wrong, other than the discrimination issues, with these changes..

    Also personally, i will not discriminate against if people have credit cards info or not. If they are minors i don’t really care. I judge people on their behaviour towards me, not technical details..

    Silvermane..

33. 33 Raavi Mann Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:30 AM

    Oh, and here’s something that springed to my mind…
    What about people who don’t own land? Are they at the mercy of every griefer and minor out there? WTG!
    Also, what about public places that just CANNOT use the tools you speak of? For example The Shelter, NCI, public sandboxes? Oh, this is sooooo brilliant… a 4 YO kid would probably figure out a better solution. I won’t even mention that “land access” tools are a joke as they are. I can be explicitly banned on a parcel but I still can rez stuff there and move around freely using a nonphys vehicle… so what’s the point? FYI - I tested that on the parcel I’m renting

34. 34 Silvermane Fluffball Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:33 AM

    Oh, and my above directed comment was for Lecina Enigma not Cherry Czervik, sorry Cherry. I was tired and read the blog thingie upside down.
    Silvermane

35. 35 Strav Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:33 AM

    LL, I hope you guys reverse the decision of displaying account payment info. Instead of encouraging overseas participants to get involved.. you’d be discouraging them although their levels of committment may be high.

    There are some countries where paypal don’t offer their services, like in Bahrain (Michael Jackson’s new residential country), or other places in the Middle East & North Africa region. I hope you will reconsider this decision. Some of us may still be students without access to a CC or just may not be comfortable will placing our CC info in there, considering the latest exploits happening on SL’s servers.

    By allowing land owners to view payment info on a resident’s account you would indirectly be placing limits to the residents’ imagination, doesn’t the theme of your slogan suggest otherwise?

    Be The Change!

    ((thank you))

36. 36 Karmianna Hartunian Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 7:44 AM

    What I can tell you is based on the recent problems i have encountered on my land with new avis, I plan on banning any account that is unverified as soon as sl gives me that option.

    I am not happy about it but I am less happy with having t remove 50 or so prims every day and having avi’s walk in my house and shoot me or just appear on my land and interupt what ever I had going on at the time.

37. 37 ImpDaddy Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 8:09 AM

    I have multiple people that use this machine to access SL, but I am the only one that is a “Premium” user of SL. My wife has the SL client on her computer as well, but prefers to use mine because it’s a little faster and has a lot more RAM in it (and we all know how big a problem speed is in SL). There have been plenty of times that I have slid over to her computer and used it to log into SL and do a few things from her machine while mine was busy doing some work though, so my own account accesses from multiple computers, just like hers does occasionally. How is this going to impact my being identified by my unique hardware ID? If the first time I login after the change is from her computer do I then HAVE to use her slower machine from then on or be labeled a “griefer”? Same with her…will the next time she tries to log on on my machine cause some flag to go up and get us both banned? Do I have to tell my neighbor that doesn’t have broadband but still likes the idea of SL that she can’t come and play from my computer anymore, because I will suddenly be labeled a “griefer” and lose the access I am paying for because I was nice enough to let her get in and get addicted to SL?

    Also, the listing “Credit card info on file and paid” on accounts, or “No CC info, not paying us any money to play” in your profile. I DO pay, and I don’t much like the idea… I much prefer the “Verified” or “UnVerified” flags. Of course, I am paid, thus “Verified”, but my wife and neighbor are NOT paid, but at least the wife is “Verified”, I believe she did the cell phone thing with her phone…so if you are wanting to just ID those people that handed you money to be in SL, that wouldn’t work…she’d be listed as “Verified” even though she’s not a paid member…but then, if verification of ID is all you are REALLY after, that should be enough, shouldn’t it? I don’t know about my neighbor…I know she joined after the 50 allowance a week was stopped, but I don’t know if she had to verify her ID or not.

    You are making money off of me. I pay you. You aren’t CURRENTLY making money off of my wife, but she DOES occasionally buy currency in other online games she plays, and if she ever gets heavily into SL I expect she probably will here too, even if she doesn’t become a premium member. I can easily see her using the Linden Xchange to buy more Lindens so she can buy more clothes in SL…so you would still be making some money off of her with what you skim from each transaction through the exchange even if she never went premium. I can say for sure though that she will never go premium if she logs in and finds someone has hung a “User doesn’t pay us any money” sign on her and she can’t enter huge sections of the world because of it…and I can’t imagine she’d be the only one that would feel that way.

    My opinion (for what little it may be worth) would be to just use “Verified” for anyone that has submitted any kind of verification info you have required, regardless of whether they are premium or basic, and “UnVerified” if they have not. That will more than fulfill the stated reasons for doing it, without as much likelyhood of abuse by people discriminating against those who would rather just play around in SL on a basic account.

    One other thought…what if someone has a premium account, but drops back down to basic? You would have at one time HAD payment info on them…but would they now suddenly find themselves with the “Not paying us any money” sign hung around their neck and be unable to go a lot of the places they like and do a lot of the things they do now? I have seen quite a few posts by people in the forums where they have said they were premium, but dropped back down to basic. Right now I don’t currently own any land…I had bought first land and built a little house, then someone flew by and offered me 6000 lindens for it, so I sold out and moved on… I’m not really getting anything extra for my premium right now, so if I drop to basic will I suddenly be shunned and have no reason to return to SL anymore? (And I HAVE purchased Lindens through the exchange, so you have been making money off of me two ways…)

    Such things make me nervous. I like SL, but I am not yet ADDICTED to it. True, I saw the potential for addiction, and I do occasionally spend a lot of time in here… And yes, I did become a premium member within a week of joining up because I can see myself having a great deal of fun in here…

    But it sounds like there is a real potential for the milk to go sour here…

    And I’m just real afraid it’s going to.

38. 38 Dolus Naumova Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 8:34 AM

    As a Teen Grid resident, I had to read the blog post twice — the first time I read it it seemed to essentially saying that it’s okay for teens to go onto the Main Grid.

    The problem — from what I’ve been able to get from blogs, podcasts, and photos — is not that people are worried about adults getting on the Teen Grid, but rather that teens are getting on the Main Grid. Requiring a credit card to get on the Teen Grid is the wrong thing to do. If you’re going to require a credit card, require it for both the Main Grid and the Teen Grid like it was before. While there may have been some people who were turned off to the idea — those who don’t have a credit card but do have a debit card, for example — could simply be offered a trial account. Someone else mentioned this before.

    One solution that I think would thrill the Teen Grid residents is to merge the Main Grid and the Teen Grid (or have a place for inter-grid commerce). The NUMBER ONE LEADING REASON of teens going to the Main Grid is NOT for porn. It’s because, quite frankly, the Teen Grid -sucks.- Everything is the same, and it isn’t pretty. Take the worst build you can think of on the Main Grid. Multiply it by around 2000. Now put particles, litter, bright, garish colors, loud, crappy music, shouting objects, pushing things, and immature and annoying users with it and BAM. Welcome to the Teen Grid. Most people on the Teen Grid can’t wait to get off it. It’s a hellhole there. There’s very few things that are any good at all. The highest quality stuff we have pales in comparision next to mediocre stuff on the Main Grid.

    There’s a stereotype about teens that all we care about is sex, porn, and sex. That may be true with a tiny minority of teens, but those teens will have already found other things that suit them. If one found Second Life, do you think he’d be on the Teen Grid? No. No matter what kind of blocks and verification systems you set up, teens who are intent on getting smut WILL circumvent them. There’s nothing you can do about it.

    Teens are really more mature than people think. Sure, you’ll have the ones who aren’t and who match stereotypes perfectly. But even though the teen grid seems to have a lot of immature people, it has just as many — if not more — mature residents who are far less childish than many adults.

    Teens like being in an area with other teens. It’s built into our genes — we like being with other people. But teens also like being with adults who respect and interest them. The Teen Grid doesn’t have any adults save for a few Lindens and the small group of adults on the GlobalKids island.

    If you want to keep the teens off the Main Grid and the adults off the Teen Grid, the solution is not to require premium accounts for areas that are over PG. That’s just silly for a variety of reasons presented above. The way to keep it seperate is to appeal to the tastes of teens: allow intergrid commerce. In order to continue making money, teens will need to increase the quality of their content, and create new, innovative products to sell. It creates a stronger economy for both grids. Allow a certain area for adults to come into the Teen Grid and teens to come into the Main Grid so they can interact. Sure, it’s nice to have teens interacting with teens but at a certain point, EVERYONE gets tired of their peers and wants to be with someone else. And the way the grids are set up now, there’s always going to be teens going into the Main Grid to get that deep conversation with an adult, or just to do something totally wacky with people who are older than them.

39. 39 Jesse Malthus Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 8:37 AM

    *sigh*
    As a pre-666 account houlder, and someone who has purchaced L$ from LindeX, this really doesn’t affect me. However, this does effect my friends whom I’ve been recruiting to play SL. For example, I have a friend who doesn’t have broadband, and occasionaly uses my computer to play SL. As he’s still new to the game, he’s bound to get into mischief. As a result, especially because he’s unverified, my account is in jepordy, should he mess up and do something stupid.
    Also, why do you have to denote payment information/use? Verified and Unverified are perfectly good titles. I do agree with someone above who said that this is just creating and enforcing a caste system that serves only to alienate new residents and “shelter” the elite from the “unwashed masses”

40. 40 Amber Lily Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 8:43 AM

    Regarding “Account Information in Profile”, I believe the concept of the three identifying account types should be fine. The main ideal is to inform other “Second Life” members of the status of other residents, so that all involved might see the amount of commitment you’ve made available to other residents and also to the progress of the “Second Life” community. In doing so it will establish a trust and ‘help’ to eliminate any breach of predictors and/or swindlers that have intentions of compromise, hinder, violate, or harm the residents, the staff or the system in any form or fashion. This is something that should not be a consideration, but a commitment and an involvement of all to help enforce our safety, the safety of our children and the safety of our friends we have come to know and respect for who they are and for the friends that ‘will be’ in the future. “Linden Lab” is looking out for our best interest and we should look out ourself’s to see if we can help in any form or fashion to improve or make their task easier without compromising the quality of security that is needed to keep all residents safe and secure and still experience a pleasurable fulfillment that only our virtual experience in “Second Life” can fulfill. I give my regards and I send my gratefulness to all parties involved that are trying to make “Second Life” a safer and more secure place for all of us and our families. Thank you “Linden Lab”!
    Signed,
    Amber Lily aka Dreama Zuma

41. 41 Jesse Malthus Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 8:57 AM

    Amber: I disagree, in that money spent and SL commitment are not corelated. There are people who are wholehartedly commited to helping SL, mainly content creators, who are serving the community without paying a dime. Conversley, there are most certanly people who invest a ton of money into SL and not be commited to it at all. LL is inflaming a system that already discriminate against those who don’t have the money to or are not willing to pay to achieve social and political standing.
    –Jesse

42. 42 LarryS Laffer Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 9:06 AM

    I welcome the changes, but I wonder why LL did use three states for verification.

    A simple boolean would be sufficient, you are either verified or not.

    I want to be able to lockout non verified members as I run a mature club. I need to be sure the account has been backed by other means of verification of age.

    Legally, reading the old ToS, we as content creators are the sole owners of said content. If LL gets a suit filed against them based on minors getting access to or viewing of mature content, LL will have to use the ToS as a first defence. Wherein clearly stated the fact WE are the owners, and therefore responsible.

    As I am a European citizen, I could not care less about filed suits, but if I were a US citizen, I would think twice of creating adult content.

    As long as LL does not give me a way to check the validity of an account, I am forced to close my parcel for all.

    Regarding the collection of a hardware hash, I can only say, why oppose? The OS the most of you are using does the same and sends that info to the company that created the OS. With or without your knowlege.

    You need the hash to be able to upgrade the OS anyway.

    Regarding mature vs PG grounds, why not allow free accounts access to PG sims alone? As stated earlier, there are 1000+ PG sims, so there will be enough to explore.

    And if one wants access to the more mature materials, they have to have a CC or verified PayPal account. There are other ways to identify yourself to LL too. Including phones, faxes, etc. A large number of companies use the faxing of copies of utility bills as a means of verification.

    Just my 2cents

43. 43 Jackson Widget Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 9:10 AM

    Dolus, I am also a resident of the Teen Grid as you know, yet I feel you are missing the point here. Your comment was mainly about merging the two grids, which is not likely in the near future. Although I do agree about how our (teen) grid is a hellhole, and the fact that half of each sim is covered in huge boxes with those freebie metal texture bundles that look like a manufacturing era of depression, but in a sci-fi way, and the default wood texture, not to mention the grungy colors, overlapping prims, and crappy builds. I am sure the Main Grid does not want all of these stuck in their Main Grid sims, which im sure there are occasionally things like this, but the whole grid isnt covered with it.

    Meanwhile, I would like to argue about the new Teen Grid signups. Me and Philip had a conversation on monday about the TG signups, and I mentioned they should be reverted, which he thought would be a great idea because then you would keep the adults away from the teen grid, which is, in my view the most important priority. He did that for me, but I feel the new hardware tracking is not a good decision. First of all, with the new signups for the Teen Grid, I feel it is not needed as much for intergrid action, as I know, my dad and my brother both have accounts they do not frequently use, (which is from this computer by the way because my dad doestn want to junk up his work laptop, and my brother couldnt get it to work on his laptop), and i do not feel I, or them should be punished for all playing from a single computer. On the main grid, it is of more practical use, mainly for griefers. Many residents here bring up the point of husband -> wife issues of on the same computer. Maybe LL should use the hardware tracking to track patterns of multiple users with griefing problems, as in, every peson reported would get the hardware tracking implemented on their account. My last point, to me, seems most valid, and most practical of use, as im sure none of us feel safe with this tracking, and people like me, and others, who have friends and family that play SL from the same computer, but mean no harm at all whatsoever.

44. 44 chris Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 9:13 AM

    i find the entire discussion about “griefers” hilarious. to alter the signup process for that specific purpose, while ignoring the idea of age verification in this age of online pedophelia is questionable, at best, and perhaps grossly negligent. i also wonder if those residents who are so disturbed by griefers live in utopian communities irl. seems like quite a bit of time and effort expended on an issue that is not truly germane to gameplay (kinda like the whole stipend stink).

    real problems that need to be addressed are things like the integrity and stability of the grid…without that, there is no game to grief in. any person involved with software development would wonder why your development team is sending out almost-weekly updates after a major upgrade…that signifies poor software quality assurance, which is more detrimental to gameplay than the occasional griefer.

45. 45 Strav Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 9:28 AM

    The option of faxing your utility bills is definintely an option, Why don’t LL look into this as another means of verifying age? Phoning is alo wonderful — is there something already in place for these, SMS does not work for me and my friends as we’re located overseas - much of us based in Asia and there fore our SMS teleco carriers are not listed on the LL-SL page
    If LL opened this up for international participants in the first place then they should have thought of listing up international carriers for each country or atleast made international participants of SL verify by LL sending us a code via email, and we texting the code back to them via our phones to a pre-defined US number…

    Where’s the intelligent coding in the signup/login module for SL, I sure do not see it, some answers please LL?

    ((thanks))

46. 46 Rikku Okamoto Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 10:06 AM

    As much as I doubt that anyone that could actually do something about any of this does anything more than skim, if they have nothing else to do, I’ll go ahead and give my two cents.

    First off: To prevent outright discrimination, what if, just what if it wasn’t an instant, “No you can’t come in” to something like “You’re in, but if you slip, you’re out.” What I mean is, instead of uniformally banning people that don’t want to give out any personal information, as WILL happen, as stated in previous posts, make it so if you’re a certain setting (like anonymous), people of higher standings have the ability to voteban, the number required being set by the owner. That way even if they’re not around, people can get rid of ‘griefers’.

    Second: For the teens in the adult grid thing, look at it this way. It’s primarily the parents job to do what they can to prevent their children from getting to things they view as inappropriate. A lot of adult websites rely on third party programs (like web nanny and such) that parents put on their or their children’s computer. I’m not entirely sure how the system works however, so it might be worth researching. Anyway, I brought it up because if you made the main SL page marked adult, and had a seperate one for the teen grid downloader and sign up, it might help with teens coming to the adult grid. But hey, I’m new, I could just be spouting hot air.

    Third: This one builds on the first idea…thing. For the owners that don’t like having things built and left on their land, maybe something could be coded so that they could set a flag so that the property would reset to the previous day at a certain time. I know that probably doesn’t make sense, so here’s an example (I’m bad at explaining things): Bill just made his home. Yay Bill! And Bill has friends that don’t want to give out their information, but at the same time he doesn’t trust everyone of the same. Also, Bill doesn’t want to have to remove things people left laying around, or be shot in the middle of a chat with friends, or roleplaying. Well, what if the folks at LL put in an ability to set privleges set on whether they’re verified or not? Complete anonymity: Can visit, and move on the property, but may not build, and it’s the same as protected land. Unverified CC or PP, possibly the same, though perhaps with certain exceptions for a list of people. Etc. That way, people can still come and visit Bill.

    Last: For the paranoid club owners, have a PG entryway, so you still get traffic and people can dance and have fun, without having to worry about adult situations, and doors or maybe a script (if something like it is going to be implemented) so that someone below a certain rating can’t get into an adult area.

    OK, little more than two cents, but at least I got this out of my system. Oh, and sorry for sounding like an idiot, if I did.

47. 47 Rikku Okamoto Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 10:11 AM

    Erm. -blushes- Got sidetracked with the third one.

    I meant to also add:

    –
    Or he could finish up his house, and set a flag so that every day at that same time, anything new not attached to an avatar would be removed, which could be turned off to add new things. Sorta like (provided I understand right) the sandboxes, and how they reset now and then.

48. 48 Strav Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 10:15 AM

    As per this page (http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=116758), it states one of the changes as being that:

    ** Existing clothing and attachments will be
    removed

    Whats that supposed to mean? All the clothes i bought, objects i was given, etc is going to not be in my inventory with this new version?

    Sorry I don’t get it.

    And instead of making residents download newer versions of SL, you guys at LL should do a pre-fetch query for updating software like many software app coders do such as google talk. Just have an update button on the client to auto update any changes, it’s awful to have to take down SL for like 5 hours.. that interupts residential life…

    come on there are better way to implement fixes/changes. Flaky Lag in SL experienced since yesterday morning.

49. 49 Taran Rampersad Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 10:51 AM

    I’m new. I got in on the freebie system, got some land, and ended up paying in. In other words, the marketing system worked for me. But in wandering around, I believe I’m a minority. I am, in fact, outside of the U.S. - and without the free account, I probably would not have participated.

    Age checks seem sort of important, especially with mature people in PG sims flexing what PG is. And the griefing weapons available for free really kill things. And, from what I understand, the lack of support for Sim Owners is creating it’s own problems.

    I don’t have the large view that LL does - but I do hope that LL is wondering whether they have made a good business decision. On a more human level, when most of the people I know have been caged/attacked by griefers and a ‘no retaliation policy’, I think LL should investigate cheaper into the bag of tricks for getting more people in.

    Perhaps a ’sandbox sim’ for new people should be done? It could be done. I think it should be done. Done right, it could be he right balance… especially if other folks in good standing can invite newbies to their areas.

    The balance is really straining a lot. I’ve heard less than kind words about LL’s policy, and it’s hard to defend such a policy when PG Sim’s are being firebombed with free stuff available from anyone and everyone.

50. 50 Lori Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 11:40 AM

    This is a positive step in the right direction, but it needs to be taken further.

    Have the following levels, and show each resident’s status in the profile. This sorts residents out by who has the most to lose, and it is very fair and equitable.

    1. Sim Owner (they are paying $195 a month and they paid $1300 - show them some love)
    2. Land Owner / Premium (most land owners would not want to risk losing everything just to orbit someone)
    3. Basic (but verified - has purchased $L - but could still be a griefer)
    4. Unverified (a free account who might be checking out SL - but also might be an alt created to grief)

    I think we can agree most griefers would be in groups 4 and 3. Make them bannable and most of our problems will be over.

51. 51 Darkfoxx Bunyip Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 11:49 AM

    None of the above given solutuions for the creditcard info and resulting discrimination is a solution at all.

    As someone above mentioned, huge parts of the main grid will become off limits to those who don’t have creditcard onfo supplied to LL, indeed helping against griefers, but also targeting two others: the people that are NOT griefing, and don’t have a creditcard, and the people who are -not- discriminating agaist the ‘poor’ creditcardless people: Where do you think all the griefers will go if 50% of the grid is unavailable? Exactly, to the other part…

    and the computer ID system is also a problem… If LL only checks the data when griefing of an account is reported, and then
    simply *warns* the other accounts from which PC the griefing is done, no innocent people will be harmed, as they can make sure the giefer who may be a friend, doesn’t use their PC anymore: But if LL just goes deleting accounts who share a computer, that will target innocent PC sharing non griefers (like me) as well. Before using the info they collect against griefers, they whoud think really hard and deep… Aftger all: Innocent till proven guilty, isn’t that how it works in the US?

    Collecting the info about your PC in itself is nothing to be worried about, Heck, Microsoft does that if you install Windows.

    Please LL, use the info wisely! Great power comes with great responsibility…

    The credit card info being displayed, is begging for discrimination… No matter if it’s justified or not. And we have already enough of that on SL, unfortunately.

    And on the note of the teens and the teens on main grid and vice versa issue: The internet is not for kids. Children have no place on the net, great for school yes, but aside from that: Why you think the internet was born?
    The internet is for PORN! PORN! PORN!

    Other then that, it’s the kids parents responsibility to keep their kids safe from porn, not the Linden’s. Can’t/won’t take responsibility to guide your kid trough life, RL and on the internet? Should have used a condom!

    (BTW, even with creditcard info, it will still be possible for adults to be on the teen grid, and will force a lot of kids to come to the main grid as a lot of parents will not pay for a game that keeps their kids from playing soccer outside, as they SHOULD be doing.)(even if the creditcard is not billed… try and convince dad of that, I can imagine it being an impossible task.)

    Greetz, DF

52. 52 Cenji Neutra Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 11:54 AM

    Are there any plans to make this new account info available to scripts?
    For example, so that vendors and banking devices could optionally prohibit access to those avatars that haven’t registered payment information?
    Thanks.

53. 53 Anonymous Coward Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 11:59 AM

    Why wouldnt it be just enough to identify if the avatar is resident of the following catagories?

    Charter
    Lifetime
    Resident (Premium)
    Resident (Basic)
    Resident

    Basic ones have been in the past verified by some manner. Premium ones have the option of holding land.

54. 54 Peter N. Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 12:34 PM

    I really do like the idea of try-before-you-buy (I didn’t feel like reading any other posts, so if this idea was banished then don’t listen to me), but I heard of SL in a column of “5 Things to Do with your Second Life” in a magazine. It seemed fun to me, so I checked it out and it turned out that it was NOT free. I saw all the complicated stuff in screenshots and decided to back out.
    I came back for some reason unknown to me (probably searching though some old magazines) and decided to check back, and found out that it was now FREE. That was the only reason that I signed up. So, if now everyone has to start to pay after 30 or so days, I would much rather just go to some other way to enjoy my time here on the internet ^.^
    And to those of you whining about LL retrieving information from your computer, I do believe that this is a GOOD idea. First off, almost every single hacker prevention software (such as PunkBuster) collects information from your computer to identify you (and send out a hardware ban if you are a hacker, which means that your computer is now shunned from PB society). Unfortunately, I do have to deny all complaints about not being able to use that computer for ANY accounts, even if it was your friend who screwed it up. In my opinion: you should NOT have a friend who does this sort of thing anyways, and (most likely) YOU gave him PERMISSION to use YOUR computer. And, to top it off, you also should have been watching him while he was doing his evils.
    And a side note about public computer banning, let’s think about it: in most public computers you are not allowed to install software anyways. So what is the big deal? It is not like you could play SL in the first place anyways!

55. 55 An Anonymous Resident Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 3:31 PM

    First off, I would like to thank LL for their hard work in updates. Even as SL suffers its growing pains and even if we don’t agree with all the changes, they do work hard to keep it all together.

    I’m not too sure what to think about the hardware collection as far as it relates to multiple users on one computer. TEhre are plenty of families/dorm-mates, etc. who share one resources. Some very valid questions conerning this new move have been brought to light and I look forward to seeing the answers.

    I am pre-6/06, so, as I understand it, I will be labeled as a “validated” member. However, as far as my payment status is concerned, that is a violation of my privacy. If I have land now and not in 6 months, or vice versa, or if I offer my credit information to LL exactly how is that another RESIDENT’S business, and why? I cannot think of one single, good reason why anyone other than LL itself needs to know that. It is my story to tell.

    Even unintentionally, the implication here is that my value as a consumer is more than my value as a content contributor. My ability or willingness to store information of a financial nature with LL is not proof of my commitment. My time and my participation are a much better indicator. I have been with SL now for nearly two years, and I have been out there, with many others, doing things and bringing content and generally trying to make the SL experience good for everyone. I host arts/cultural events regularly and I am always helping out the new people that I meet. I also support the people who pay the bills in SL; without the citizens to pay these sim owners to cover tier, etc., it is undoubtable that those privately owned areas would not continue to exist. But in the final analysis, it is the content that draws people back. I could own bazillions of meters of land and spend gazillions of dollars to LL for it, but if it isn’t fun and interesting, no one is coming back.

    As for the Teen grid issues, I have to agree that it is backwards to make them supply credit information while not asking for it on the main grid. Teens are very into instant-grafitication and this just brings that element into play in the wrong place. I am ok with the idea of having to verify that I am over 18, as suggested in one of the posts above. I don’t see that as a problem

56. 56 lolly k Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 3:56 PM

    Well i personally dont want or need everyone knowing if i provided a credit card etc on my sign up..thats personall information..and shouldn’t be disclosed to anyone..especially without my consent…ok rant over

57. 57 Cresten Pixie Says:
    June 28th, 2006 at 8:45 PM

    I am a new member, I did not provide my payment information because I see no need to. It doesn’t get me anything new. Now however people take one look at my profile and ban me from their land just because they will assume that because i did not provide my payment info that I must be either a child or a griefer. How is this fair? I am here with the best of intentions, I may provide payment info if I need to buy $L’s or if I find that there is actually a good reason to become a premium member.

    Why even bother with the “provided payment information” stuff, why not just identify the fields as Premium, paid basic, free basic? That is how people read it anyway.

    I went to a popular club today and accidentally bumped into someone because of the lag and apparently someone reported the bump “yes I said sorry” to the club owner and I was immediately banned from the club. I IM’d the owner to find out why and they said because I griefed a guest and because they thought I was a griefing alt. because of my “no payment info” label in my profile.

    This is a VERY bad message to new members and I’m sure you’ll find an increase in these kinds of behaviors because of these labels. Personally I think my status in SL is nobody’s business but mine and LL’s. I resent having that info made public and will give LL a week to rem